Author Topic: Help needed with Changing Brake pads  (Read 1149 times)

alfy

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2020, 06:22:18 AM »
I replaced my brake pad retainer clips last year due to rubbing sound, I noticed the scoring on the disc and shining metal on retainer clip from the rubbing. My old retainer clips per wheel were different top/bottom. The new clips are identical top/bottom. Part no 45237-SAA-E51. Each clip cost 6.92 + vat from my local dealer. So it does not matter when  fitting new clip top/bottom,  just make sure you fit the clip central in the carrier bracket. My new honda pads were only supplied with grease, and no clips, for the price they charge, they should  include  retainer clips.

culzean

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2020, 09:12:42 AM »
I replaced my brake pad retainer clips last year due to rubbing sound, I noticed the scoring on the disc and shining metal on retainer clip from the rubbing. My old retainer clips per wheel were different top/bottom. The new clips are identical top/bottom. Part no 45237-SAA-E51. Each clip cost 6.92 + vat from my local dealer. So it does not matter when  fitting new clip top/bottom,  just make sure you fit the clip central in the carrier bracket. My new honda pads were only supplied with grease, and no clips, for the price they charge, they should  include  retainer clips.

Hope they haven't resorted to cost cutting measures,  I always used to get genuine Honda pads for many years ( last set I bought would be about 2 years ago from Cox ) and they always came with everything you needed - as I said, new anti-rattle clips, adhesive anti-squeal shims, new bolts and grease.    Mind you with all the aftermarket pads on the market Honda would not be selling many full price kits - Oh well.... can't really blame them for downsizing the pad kit - you get grease even with cheapest pads now ( as well as an instruction sheet big enough to paper your lounge with instructions in all the languages recognised by the UN,  but in the smallest print only ants wearing spectacles could read).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2020, 10:30:25 AM »
I am quite lucky. So far I have done 40,000 miles, and the pads still have plenty of life left in them. I have no idea how long they were on the car prior to me buying it (I'll have to sift through the receipts).

richardfrost

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2020, 10:43:47 AM »
I am quite lucky. So far I have done 40,000 miles, and the pads still have plenty of life left in them. I have no idea how long they were on the car prior to me buying it (I'll have to sift through the receipts).

Not sure how much is down to luck and how much is down to your driving style and economic use of the brakes Jocko. I do know that since I got my hybrid (and therefore essential automatic) Toyota the consumption has gone down and brake use has gone down.

Henryge

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2020, 11:09:07 AM »
Hi There, I will be checking front and rear pads for wear amount in the next 2 weeks, If they need changing  i'll get
them from Euro Car Parts that's where i get all my car service parts. Only problem is they list a couple of choices for said part, and somtimes they are not correct type for the car. So i keep list of ref part numbers for future use.

bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2020, 01:58:54 PM »
Right. This is not going well.

The pads arrived and they *Do Not* come with the clips. I called Cox and they said they cannot get the clips. They do not stock them and Honda are closed down at the moment.

The Honda clips are *Different* to the clips I have on my car. I wonder if this is why my pads would not fit properly (I don't know?).

I've now got two sets of pads and I'm no closer to getting this problem resolved.

I cleaned up the existing clips. They fit the old pads better than the new pads. I haven't tried the Honda pads as I'm deciding if I should return them or not.

What should I do now ????

culzean

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2020, 02:37:03 PM »
Right. This is not going well.

The pads arrived and they *Do Not* come with the clips. I called Cox and they said they cannot get the clips. They do not stock them and Honda are closed down at the moment.

The Honda clips are *Different* to the clips I have on my car. I wonder if this is why my pads would not fit properly (I don't know?).

I've now got two sets of pads and I'm no closer to getting this problem resolved.

I cleaned up the existing clips. They fit the old pads better than the new pads. I haven't tried the Honda pads as I'm deciding if I should return them or not.

What should I do now ????

The older pads 'ears' have probably been flattened a bit due to repeated braking putting pressure on the metal.

return the new pads unopened and dress down the ears on the Bosch pads to slide easily,  when you refit the anti-rattle clips make sure they are clear of the discs.   

Just did a check on the Honda website by putting the clips in basket and checking price and they are about 9 each,  that is robbery with violence - if i had paid that I would clean up and reuse them for ever...  se attached PDF
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 03:36:48 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jimster

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2020, 02:46:05 PM »
If it were me I'd return the Honda pads for refund and stick with the ones you've already tried fitting. There should be no need to file pads to fit but you should always clean the calliper bracket with a file to completely remove any rust  behind the stainless hardware - this is the pinch point which in most cases will prevent smooth operation.

Unless you've bent the hardware getting it off, or they were the wrong ones in the first place there's no reason you shouldn't be able to reuse after a really good clean up to remove brake dust or dirt build up.  If a little bent you can easily get it back in to shape with a gentle tweek.

Otherwise if you look beyond ECP you'll find other motor factors that can supply a set of replacement caliper hardware for both sides for under a tenner. Auto Doc carry a good range, but will sting you on their flat rate delivery for such a low cost part (ship from Germany). You can use the site to get  the supplier part numbers though and search elsewhere closer to home - dependant on who's open of course...

sparky Paul

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2020, 04:55:56 PM »
If it were me I'd return the Honda pads for refund and stick with the ones you've already tried fitting. There should be no need to file pads to fit but you should always clean the calliper bracket with a file to completely remove any rust  behind the stainless hardware - this is the pinch point which in most cases will prevent smooth operation.

+1

bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2020, 06:42:37 PM »

The older pads 'ears' have probably been flattened a bit due to repeated braking putting pressure on the metal.

return the new pads unopened and dress down the ears on the Bosch pads to slide easily,  when you refit the anti-rattle clips make sure they are clear of the discs.   

Just did a check on the Honda website by putting the clips in basket and checking price and they are about 9 each,  that is robbery with violence - if i had paid that I would clean up and reuse them for ever...  se attached PDF

I told you they were priced for one. You were so confident with your answer you convinced me otherwise!

Anyway I have parts confusion now.

The part that Honda say should be used with the Jazz/Fit is '45237-SAA-E51'. This is a different clip to what is currently fitted to my car. This is also the part listed on the Cox Honda site.

The Auto Doc site says the Jazz uses a more common part '45012-570-000'. This Honda part seems to fit various Honda vehicles, mostly civics. Third party 'copies' of this clip are widely available and it looks like the clips I have currently fitted. It's an obviously different design and has an extra 'folded back spring arm' on one side of the pair of clips.

So what's happening here? Is an incorrect clip being circulated as compatible with the Jazz when in fact it's not exactly right? Hence the problem alfy and others like myself are having?

I compared the Honda pads to the old pads I took off the car. The 'ears' are very worn down when put next to the Honda pads. A good 1-2mm.

I don't know now if I should get a metal file and cut down my Bosch pad ears to match? I don't like 'botching' a job to make it fit. I wondering if I should pay the stupid amount of money to get the correct Honda part clips and do the job properly? Though currently it seems impossible to get this part from anywhere.

sparky Paul

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2020, 11:09:45 PM »
I don't know now if I should get a metal file and cut down my Bosch pad ears to match? I don't like 'botching' a job to make it fit. I wondering if I should pay the stupid amount of money to get the correct Honda part clips and do the job properly? Though currently it seems impossible to get this part from anywhere.

I see what you mean about the extra flaps on the shims. I suppose you could simply cut them off if they are causing trouble, but it seems a bit odd. Even the Blue Print shims seem to have them, and they are usually a match for OEM parts, or actually OEM parts. Is it possible that Honda have also changed the design on these?

As for the old pads, the tabs will will be worn, or may even have been previously filed to fit - I would only do that as an absolute last resort. If all the scale is removed from the caliper brackets and the shims are in reasonable shape, they should fit. No matter where the pads are from, they don't accidentally make them too big - in 30 years, I've never had to file pads to make them fit.

I prefer a scraper to a file to remove the scale, but it can take a bit of persistence. It's easier to feel the difference between hard scale and caliper with a scraper, it will not damage the cast steel of the caliper, with reasonable care.

Jocko

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2020, 10:15:17 AM »
In my experience, I have never had to file pads. My son-in-law, a mechanic, has changed pads on previous cars of mine and never filed them either. He just cleans out the calliper. Another good tip he gave me was to use a scraper (or a heavy screwdriver) to remove the build-up on the edges of the disc. He just spins the hub and holds the tool against the rusty build up like a wood lathe. It works a treat.

bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2020, 11:29:53 AM »

I see what you mean about the extra flaps on the shims. I suppose you could simply cut them off if they are causing trouble, but it seems a bit odd. Even the Blue Print shims seem to have them, and they are usually a match for OEM parts, or actually OEM parts. Is it possible that Honda have also changed the design on these?

As for the old pads, the tabs will will be worn, or may even have been previously filed to fit - I would only do that as an absolute last resort.

So I've been reading around and found more information about these clips. A post (linked below) on a Honda Fit forum has some good info and photos. He has a late 2007 GD Jazz, and discovered the clips with his third party pads were different than the original Honda clips. To get them to fit he had to bend them slightly and file down the pad ears to fit. The extra flap/spring on these clips doubles the thickness of the clips, so that's about 1mm of less space provided for the pads.

The odd thing is that this clip is designed for a range of Civic cars. On a third party compatibility list it shows a long list of Honda Civic models and then a single model (GD) of Jazz at the bottom. However Honda themselves clearly list two different part numbers for that range of Civic and the Jazz (part numbers I posted above). Unfortunately nobody seem to make a copy of the Jazz part number, only the Civic part number. I wonder if someone decided the Civic part was 'close enough', and it's been circulated widely as compatible with our Jazz?

As I mentioned above the old pads I removed are quite substantially filled down to fit. I don't really want a botch job with the pads. Presumably once pad ears have been filed down to bare metal they are subject to corrosion which will only encourage them to seize up in the clips.

I can buy these Civic clips for 7 off eBay. They're widely made by many brands. At this point I would be quite happy to spend the frankly ridiculous 32ish on a set of original correct part number Jazz clips, just so I know the job has been done properly. However in the current climate I simply can't buy them!


https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-generation-gd-01-08/95048-front-brake-pads-fit-2007-a.html
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 11:34:30 AM by bus_ter »

bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2020, 12:44:31 PM »
Further Update.

I decided to buy the eBay Civic clips (7 delivered).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pad-Fitting-Kit-fits-HONDA-CIVIC-EH9-1-6-Front-91-to-95-ADL-Quality-New/233534568916?

Notice under 'Applicable Vehicles' in the description you see the Jazz GD listed among all the Civic models.
However if you use the eBay compatibility system they're NOT compatible with the Jazz.

For 7 I figure they are worth trying. I'll clean up the calipers behind the clips really well and try them on. If I'm not happy with the pad fit, then I'll just wait until I can get the correct part direct from Honda. Presumably there are a lot of Jazz's out there driving around on these clips without major issue..

sparky Paul

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2020, 06:12:18 PM »
I decided to buy the eBay Civic clips (7 delivered).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pad-Fitting-Kit-fits-HONDA-CIVIC-EH9-1-6-Front-91-to-95-ADL-Quality-New/233534568916?

These Blue Print clips are specifically for the Jazz, but they are exactly the same thing. I'm sure they will be common to quite a few Honda models of the era.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pad-Fitting-Kit-fits-HONDA-JAZZ-Mk2-1-2-Front-02-to-08-ADL-Quality-New/333503603878

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