Author Topic: Help needed with Changing Brake pads  (Read 1148 times)

bus_ter

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Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« on: April 29, 2020, 04:40:52 PM »
Hi,

I changed the front brakes this morning. Both the Discs and Pads. I bought Bosch branded parts from Eurocar parts. Went with Bosch hoping for high quality, but still a big saving over original Honda parts.

I've never changed brakes before. I watched a lot of YouTube videos and guides and felt confident with the process.

All went well until fitting the new pads back into the metal clips in the caliper. (My new Bosch pads did not come with new clips). The pads were a very tight fit on one side of the caliper and a little tight on the other side. I cleaned up the clips and rubbed away on the caliper under the clips to make a little more room. Still the pads felt tight. Reassembling the brakes and going for a test drive I have a rubbing noise coming from one side. It's a sort of pulsing sound that you can hear at low speed. The brakes otherwise seem to work.

My thought is that the pads may be stuck in the clips and not moving properly? Or could it be something else?

I went to try and order some new clips. I found a Honda part number (45237SAAE51). This appears to be for just one clip, and the Honda diagram appears to show one of these clips at each side of the caliper. However my existing clips are different at each end. One side has a sort of spring part folded back. I'm not sure if I have an aftermarket clip on that came with the pads and is a different design to the Honda clips, or indeed the Honda clips come as a pair and they are also different.

Any help here would be much appreciated!

culzean

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2020, 06:40:38 PM »
Never changed any pads ( even genuine Honda ) where I didn't have to reduce the width of pad 'ears' - when you stamp out thick metal like the pad backing plates the sides of the stamping is not parallel but tapered. I just parallel them up so that there is about half a mm of clearance and use the high melting point molybdenum grease normally supplied in small sachets with pads where the ears slide in the stainless clip in shims on caliper.  Do not use moly grease on caliper slide pins though, use something like TRW PFG110 - which is not petroleum based ( petroleum lubricants will swell and degrade the rubber seals ).

If the pad ears are tight to start with, and they corrode ( which is inevitable ) they get tighter and do not slide to equalise pressure on pad, this means the piston side ( inner ) pads wear quickly and the outer pads ( the ones you can see ) do not wear.. it is important that the pad ears and caliper pins are free to slide easily.  Also check that the rubber concertina bellows on slide pins are not split and are seated properly on the boss at each end, if water and dirt can get in the pins will probably seize up.

When you buy Honda pads you do get all the clips and shims and also new caliper bolts with blue threadlock paint on the thread, and sachets of molybdenum grease .  The stainless clips are there to provide a smooth, non-rusting sliding surface for pads and to stop the pad ears creating grooves and dents in the caliper face when braking load forces ears against caliper,  which could stop pads sliding properly.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 07:42:55 PM by culzean »
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Henryge

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2020, 06:46:20 PM »
Hi There. The metal clips are there to stop the pads being loose and wearing premarturly, when you put new discs on did you check for any rust bumps on disc mating face?. As these need to very flat  then check any run out by turning disc around with a dti ( dial test indicator ) if ok then install cailpers and pads. So the noise could be run out of discs as it's turning ( touching not touching then touching again being repeated ). Or lip on old discs catching first but seeing as you put on new discs give that a miss, Can you jack up the side that is making a noise, then turn tyre and listen for noise

bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2020, 07:48:36 PM »
Never changed any pads ( even genuine Honda ) where I didn't have to reduce the width of pad 'ears' - when you stamp out thick metal like the pad backing plates the sides of the stamping is not parallel but tapered. I just parallel them up so that there is about half a mm of clearance.

After watching 4-5 YouTube videos on changing brakes, not a single one mentioned this! Do you use a metal file? I don't think I have the tools to do this (vice etc)

it is important that the pad ears and caliper pins are free to slide easily.  Also check that the rubber concertina bellows on slide pins are not split and are seated properly on the boss at each end, if water and dirt can get in the pins will probably seize up.

They certainly do not slide easily in the clips. They're wedged in there a bit. Is this likely to be my problem here? It seems like it to me. I removed the caliper pins, cleaned them up and used a special lube for them. They seem to move back and forth quite easily and the rubber boot stretches (concentias) with the pin. I'm not sure if it's relevant, but when fully pushed in, one of the rubber bellows pushes in so it's ribbed, one pushes in with some of the ribs folded 'outwards'. When the pins are pulled out they look the same.

When you buy Honda pads you do get all the clips and shims and also new caliper bolts with blue threadlock paint on the thread, and sachets of molybdenum grease .

I'm tempted to just order some if it will give me an easier time, and put the Bosch ones down as a loss and experience mistake. I've been trying to find just the clips online.


when you put new discs on did you check for any rust bumps on disc mating face?. As these need to very flat  then check any run out by turning disc around with a dti ( dial test indicator ) if ok then install cailpers and pads. So the noise could be run out of discs as it's turning ( touching not touching then touching again being repeated ). Or lip on old discs catching first but seeing as you put on new discs give that a miss, Can you jack up the side that is making a noise, then turn tyre and listen for noise

I wire brushed the face down, sprayed with brake cleaner, painted on some copper slip and put on the new discs. I don't have a dti tool to check. I haven't lifted the wheel since going for the test drive. The wheels did spin freely before I put the car down and pumped the brakes. If it stops raining I will try this. What will I learn from doing this that I don't already know from hearing the 'pulsing' rubbing noise while driving at slow speeds?

culzean

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2020, 08:07:01 PM »
It is possible to make a big saving on brakes by buying Honda pads from somewhere like cox motor parts every second change to get new shims etc. and discs from Eurocaparts - I fitted Eicher discs to rear of wifes MK2 and they have not gone rusty line the original ones and 2 years later some more honda ones,  both lots of Honda rear discs went incredibly rusty ( I mean deep pitted rust not surface rust) - bu the Eicher ones are fine,  and have been for ages now.   You don't need a vise to file down ears,  just a reasonable file - not much metal to remove you can hold pad in hand and just take a bit at a time off and trying it in the caliper,  as I said about 0.5mm ( or 20 thou in old money ) free movement is perfect - I do this when I replace pads and have never, ever had a pad stick in the caliper and cause bad brake performance and uneven pad wear - it is important for the pads to move freely when first fitted ( they may be on there for several years exposed to water and salt - if they are tight to start with they don't get any better, in fact with a bit of corrosion thrown in they can get much tighter and even seize up).


https://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/honda/honda-jazz/2002-2008-jazz/2002-2008-jazz-brake-pads-discs/

in fact at the moment Honda pads at Cox are actually cheaper than the Bosch ones from Eurocarparts

https://www.eurocarparts.com/brake-pads
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 08:17:25 PM by culzean »
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bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2020, 09:10:52 PM »
I've taken your advice Culzean. I ordered the original Honda pads. I figure with new clips and parts I'll be able to put these Bosch pads in down the line and not waste them. Hopefully the clips will solve the problem.

cornishpasty

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2020, 09:26:56 PM »
I have genuine Honda pads for both front and rears that I will install when the weather improves. There are no pad retaining clips in either boxes, so am wondering do I source these from another supplier or just re-use the old ones ?

culzean

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2020, 08:41:36 AM »
I have genuine Honda pads for both front and rears that I will install when the weather improves. There are no pad retaining clips in either boxes, so am wondering do I source these from another supplier or just re-use the old ones ?

I used to get genuine Honda pads all the time, up until a couple of years ago I was covering over 25K miles a year and used to get through a few sets - they always had all the clips and shims and new bolts.  When I replaced rear discs and brakes on wifes MK2 I a while ago I used Brembo pads and Eicher discs - the Brembo pads came with only a sachet of grease and some anti-squeal shims only.   I have just contacted Cox Motor parts to ask if genuine Honda pads still come with all the clips, shims and bolts.
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Henryge

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2020, 05:05:47 PM »
Hi There, I always reuse the clips even if they slightly rusty made of stainless sprung steel. You should get with pads sachet of grease and new bolts, I generally use copper grease and locite used bolts if new ones not in pack.

bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2020, 05:11:33 PM »
I have genuine Honda pads for both front and rears that I will install when the weather improves. There are no pad retaining clips in either boxes
:o :o Don't say that! Where did you get them from?! I don't want to have just wasted 60

culzean

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2020, 05:17:55 PM »
Cox sell the clips but not plain if price is for 1 or a set of 4

https://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/honda-shop/genuine-honda-jazz-front-brake-pad-retainer-2002-2008/

part number 45237SAAE51

checked on Honda parts site and the same price and part number is for a set of 4 so Cox part looks good for set of 4 at just over 8

https://www.parts-honda.uk/honda-cars/JAZZ/2006/14-SE/STEERING-BRAKE-SUSPENSION/FRONT-BRAKE/17SAA601/B__2200/4/22058
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bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2020, 05:50:42 PM »
Did you get a reply from your email?
They dispatched my brake pads today so they could possibly come tomorrow.

See the section on my original post about the clips. The Honda part number shows the same clip for both the top and bottom of the caliper. The clips I have on at the moment are different top and bottom.

I really hope these new pads come with clips!

EDIT: The link above is for one clip. It just adds 4 to the basket as the default choice. Again it suggests the Honda clips are different to what I have fitted. I really don't want to spend 32 on clips on top of what I've already paid (so far 100 on two sets of pads!)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 05:54:12 PM by bus_ter »

culzean

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2020, 06:50:23 PM »
Did you get a reply from your email?
They dispatched my brake pads today so they could possibly come tomorrow.

See the section on my original post about the clips. The Honda part number shows the same clip for both the top and bottom of the caliper. The clips I have on at the moment are different top and bottom.

I really hope these new pads come with clips!

EDIT: The link above is for one clip. It just adds 4 to the basket as the default choice. Again it suggests the Honda clips are different to what I have fitted. I really don't want to spend 32 on clips on top of what I've already paid (so far 100 on two sets of pads!)

I have not had a reply from Cox motors yet.

No what I said was that the Honda part number is for a set of 4 clips for front brakes,  they come as a set of 4 ( clarified on Honda site ) - the set is given a single part number but it covers a full set of 4 clips for just over 8. The Cox motor site was a bit confusing but obviously by '1' in the qty box for that part number you get '1' full set of 4 clips,  the Honda site makes it obvious you get a set of 4 clips if you order that part number,  and the part number is the same as the Cox motor one.

There is a note on Cox site saying clips are not a stock item at Cox and would have to be ordered from Honda,  which may add a day or two.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 06:53:16 PM by culzean »
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bus_ter

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2020, 07:23:44 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up. It was a little confusing, especially with the second site you listed wanting to add 4 to the basket.

Fingers crossed they come tomorrow with the clips. The car as it is can't really be driven, not without me refitting the old stuff! Fortunately I'm not needing to go anywhere right now..

sparky Paul

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Re: Help needed with Changing Brake pads
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2020, 10:13:01 PM »
Before you refit everything, make sure the surfaces under the shims are absolutely spotless. Remove the hard scale with a flat scraper and a wire brush until they are bright and flat, and finish with blow off and a light smear of copper grease.

Unless the shims have lost their springy, you should be able to clean and reuse the old ones. Clean them up with a bit of petrol or brake cleaner, they are stainless and shouldn't need anything more abrasive than a scotchbrite pad.

If the pads are still tight in the shims, take them out and have make absolutely sure you have removed all the scale from the caliper surfaces. These Honda calipers are prone to corrosion under the shims, and there's very little leeway with the pads. If you get all the scale off, the pads should slide in without any bodging.

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