Author Topic: Jazz Mk4 European Press Release 12/02/2020 Priced from 22000 Euros in Germany  (Read 1079 times)

csp

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The latest Honda Press Release confirms the Mk4 Jazz Hybrid will be available across Europe in summer of 2020, with a 1.5 litre engine producing a total output of 109 PS, prices given for Germany start from 2200 Euros (18794), Crosstar prices from 26250 Euros (22366).

The Press Release can be found by following the link below

https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/cars/media/pressreleases/200543/all-new-honda-jazz-delivers-powerful-hybrid-performance-and-advanced-connectivity-3?utm_campaign=Syndicated_200543&utm_medium=RSS_All%20Press%20Releases&utm_source=hondanews.eu

Autocar coverage

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/honda-reveals-new-details-2020-hybrid-only-jazz

csp

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For comparison current Mk3 Jazz prices start in Germany at  17290.00

TREND EQUIPMENT 1.3 I-VTEC 6-SPEED MANUAL transmission 17,290.00
TREND 1.3 I-VTEC CVT AUTOMATIC transmission price from 18,590.00

jazzaro

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Prices are high, but they are probably charged by UE fines for CO2 emissions. And all manufacturers will soon change their price lists: in Italy the Mazda mx5 price list switched from 28500 to 33500 (plus 5000) for the base 1.5 soft top, and all other trims got a similar increase.
https://www.jato.com/2021-co2-targets-would-generate-e34-billion-euros-in-penalty-payments-within-europe/

John Ratsey

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From the press release:

  • A total output of 109 PS (80kW) and 253Nm of electric propulsion torque
    Combined CO2 emissions from 102 g/km (WLTP) and fuel economy from 4.5l/100km (WLTP)

The torque from the electric motor will make the vehicle much more responsive than the current Jazz (not helped by the Atkinson cycle mode). However, I'm a little surprised that things couldn't be tweaked to get the CO2 below 100 g/km while fuel economy of 4.5l/100km is equivalent to about 62 mpg. This doesn't look impressive compared to the old mpg figures but the Mk3 Jazz is around 48-49 mpg for the WLTP testing (see https://www.honda.co.uk/content/dam/local/uk/cars/WLTP-PDF/19YM%20JAZZ%20-%20WLTP%20Data.pdf ) and the WLTP numbers can be bettered under favourable driving conditions.

Downsizer

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From the UK press release:
"The total output of 109 PS / 80kW can propel the car to 62mph in 9.4 seconds and on to a maximum speed of 108mph. The effect is an effortless and comfortable journey, whether travelling through urban areas or cruising at high speed on motorways. Its fuel-efficient hybrid system produces CO2 emissions from 102 g/km (WLTP) and fuel economy of 62.8 mpg (WLTP) on the standard model and 110 g/km (WLTP) and 58.9mpg (WLTP) on the Crosstar."

The WLTP fuel consumption at 62.8 mpg is an improvement of around 30% over the current model, which is well worth having for higher mileages.

The Autocar piece in csp's link says that the three driving modes "will allow drivers to choose" the mode.  I think this is unlikely - I think the car will do the choosing according to the power required and the speed.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 05:42:17 PM by Downsizer »

JazzMusic

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So they took over the hardware (engine) from the Insight Mk3 which is available in the US only (AFAIK) and de-tuned it from 151 hp/267 Nm to 109 hp/253 Nm. Not sure why but maybe because of road taxes in Europe.
I'm slightly disappointed by the mpg numbers though. A 3 cyl 1.2 or 1.3 liter engine would have shaved off a little bit more. But I understand that development costs are high.
4.5l/100 km is not that low, compared to a Toyota Yaris. Compared to a 1.3 CVT (ok, not available in the UK) I only see a difference of 18% (5.5 versus 4.5), not 30%.
But a low-end torque of 253 Nm should be quite fun to drive, even though it must really feel restricted at WOT. I was really hoping for 120-130 hp. My first question would be how to free up the ponnies and tune it to the power figures the Insight Mk3 offers. :D
Or to wait for another model with more hp.

Downsizer

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I'm slightly disappointed by the mpg numbers though. A 3 cyl 1.2 or 1.3 liter engine would have shaved off a little bit more. But I understand that development costs are high.
4.5l/100 km is not that low, compared to a Toyota Yaris.
The WLTP figures I've found show the automatic hybrid Yaris consumption as 4.8l/100 km, or 59 mpg, so the Jazz should improve on that by about 6%.

John Ratsey

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I'm slightly disappointed by the mpg numbers though. A 3 cyl 1.2 or 1.3 liter engine would have shaved off a little bit more. But I understand that development costs are high.
Honda has the 3 cylinder 1 litre engine (in the Civic but with a turbo) which, I suspect, isn't potent enough without the turbo to move the Jazz when in direct drive. I would also assume that the engine will be run as full Atkinson cycle in order to get a bit more efficiency and suspect it will be around 1.5 litres given that the CR-V has a 2 litre engine. Atkinson cycle to provide efficient power combined with a motor to provide extra torque when needed seems to be the standard hybrid recipe.

I hope that Honda has spent a bit of money on measures to get the engine up to optimum operating temperature as quickly as possible as cold engines guzzle a lot of extra fuel. The battery will probably be used to get the car off the driveway but the engine then needs to warm up quickly. Previous info suggests that the battery is only 1kWh, which isn't a lot. I have to wonder if doubling the capacity (not a lot of extra cost) would make a further improvement to the mpg.

MartinJG

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I'm slightly disappointed by the mpg numbers though. A 3 cyl 1.2 or 1.3 liter engine would have shaved off a little bit more. But I understand that development costs are high.
Honda has the 3 cylinder 1 litre engine (in the Civic but with a turbo) which, I suspect, isn't potent enough without the turbo to move the Jazz when in direct drive. I would also assume that the engine will be run as full Atkinson cycle in order to get a bit more efficiency and suspect it will be around 1.5 litres given that the CR-V has a 2 litre engine. Atkinson cycle to provide efficient power combined with a motor to provide extra torque when needed seems to be the standard hybrid recipe.

I hope that Honda has spent a bit of money on measures to get the engine up to optimum operating temperature as quickly as possible as cold engines guzzle a lot of extra fuel. The battery will probably be used to get the car off the driveway but the engine then needs to warm up quickly. Previous info suggests that the battery is only 1kWh, which isn't a lot. I have to wonder if doubling the capacity (not a lot of extra cost) would make a further improvement to the mpg.

Well if the size of the battery in the MK2 is anything to go by, I have my doubts. Honda seem to be obsessed with battery specs that are more suited to the requirements of a midget mobile. The dimming lights when I activate anything of an electrical nature still bugs me.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 08:59:25 PM by MartinJG »

Jocko

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The dimming lights when I activate anything of an electrical nature still bugs me.
Not something I have ever experienced with the Mk 1. Sounds like you could do with cleaning up the battery terminals, cables and your main earth cables (battery/body/engine).

JazzandJag

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So they took over the hardware (engine) from the Insight Mk3 which is available in the US only (AFAIK) and de-tuned it from 151 hp/267 Nm to 109 hp/253 Nm. Not sure why but maybe because of road taxes in Europe.
I'm slightly disappointed by the mpg numbers though. A 3 cyl 1.2 or 1.3 liter engine would have shaved off a little bit more. But I understand that development costs are high.
4.5l/100 km is not that low, compared to a Toyota Yaris. Compared to a 1.3 CVT (ok, not available in the UK) I only see a difference of 18% (5.5 versus 4.5), not 30%.
But a low-end torque of 253 Nm should be quite fun to drive, even though it must really feel restricted at WOT. I was really hoping for 120-130 hp. My first question would be how to free up the ponnies and tune it to the power figures the Insight Mk3 offers. :D
Or to wait for another model with more hp.

Not quite as bad as you feared! From memory the Insight petrol engine produces 110ps and the electric motor 129ps. The effective combined power output is 151ps, presumably in engine drive with electric assistance (available for short periods only). Honda have yet to state the equivalent combined power output for the Jazz but I would think it would be around 130ps. The insight claims 0-60 in 8 seconds whilst the Jazz claims 0-62 in 9.4 seconds which would equate to about 9 seconds 0-60.

My main concern is for how long the battery will provide the boosted performance and how long to recharge again. Only a test drive will answer these questions and I have already warned my dealer that an extended drive will be necessary!

MartinJG

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The dimming lights when I activate anything of an electrical nature still bugs me.
Not something I have ever experienced with the Mk 1. Sounds like you could do with cleaning up the battery terminals, cables and your main earth cables (battery/body/engine).

Ordinarily, yes, but I had thought this was just one of those Jazz quirks. I recall several posts that alluded to this. Certainly, when the air con kicks in the lights dim slightly. It then seems to readjust and everything goes back to normal so it must be 'surge demand' related. The battery is about three years old and there is certainly no indication of a weak charge when it comes to starting up on a cold damp day which is usually the first clue. That leaves the earth. Now I know the previous owner said he had a mysterious problem with the battery draining overnight. The Honda stealers narrowed it down to a loose connection in the boot and it was fixed. Odd. Before I get too distracted with fault finding, has anyone else noticed this on their MK2? 

VicW

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All the Jazz's that I have owned have shown this effect of the lights dimming momentarily when the aircon compressor kicks in so I would suggest that it is nothing to worry about.

Vic.

culzean

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It is probably to do with the electronic load detector / sensor on the battery compensating for extra load by telling the alternator to increase its output. Modern alternators weaken and strengthen the magnetism of the rotor to control output to just what is required. This gives the battery an easier time by preventing overcharging - and extends battery life as well as requiring a bit less engine power to drive the alternator.  I have one of those cigarette lighter adaptors plugged in, the ones with 4 LED showing battery voltage and even on the mk2 Jazz ( and Civic ) the lights show battery voltage initially falling when a new load like aircon, heated screen, electric Windows is turned on, never noticed headlamps dimming because they are LED and anything between 9 to 32 volts they give full brightness.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JazzMusic

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Not quite as bad as you feared! From memory the Insight petrol engine produces 110ps and the electric motor 129ps. The effective combined power output is 151ps, presumably in engine drive with electric assistance (available for short periods only). Honda have yet to state the equivalent combined power output for the Jazz but I would think it would be around 130ps. The insight claims 0-60 in 8 seconds whilst the Jazz claims 0-62 in 9.4 seconds which would equate to about 9 seconds 0-60.
If the heavier Insight Mk3 with 151 hp does a quicker 0-60 I fear the total output of the ligher Jazz hybrid must be reduced quite a lot. So I'm pretty sure that the total output of both fuel and electric is 109 hp. A test-drive will show if that concept is going to work for me.

I wasn't aware that the Yaris is at 4.8/100 km in WLTP. With the former method it was 3.3-3.5. If the new Jazz is below that all is ok then.

Honda has talked of 6 electric/hybrids til 2022. So we have the NSX (a shot in the oven for Honda), the CR-V hybrid, the Honda e (maybe fun to drive but in my area), the new Jazz a hybrid only. What are the other two models? HR-V hybrid? Civic hybrid? Insight Mk3? They've talked of another SUV as a hybrid or electric...

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