Author Topic: Acceleration lag  (Read 645 times)

clivech

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Acceleration lag
« on: January 30, 2020, 01:46:15 PM »
Does anyone have experience of a lag on acceleration with the Jazz hybrid? I've had mine for a few months and when I put my foot down from a stop or low speed, there is a delay before the car picks up speed, and it can be as much as 2-3 seconds although more often it's a second or so. I've been to the dealer who, although they could find no fault, advised me to have the plugs changed (I have 84,000 miles on the clock, so it was due) - 240. This made no difference. Another dealer who recognised there was indeed a lag told me to get the CVT fluid replaced, which I let them do - 90. That made a modest difference, but the lag is still noticeable, as the dealer acknowledged. They suggested replacing the fuel filter and getting valve clearances checked, but admitted this did not seem likely to resolve the problem completely. It really makes driving the car unpleasant (when it does take off, it's not smooth, and you tend to get thrown back in the seat) and possibly unsafe (if the car doesn't respond as I'm entering a roundabout, it can severely reduce the distance between me and those entering the roundabout from the previous entrance). It's also less fun to drive than it should be, as the pickup is slow. Any ideas, anyone?

culzean

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2020, 04:13:39 PM »
I thought the battery was there on a hybrid to make acceleration quicker, has anyone checked the battery condition and if it is charging properly ?
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John Ratsey

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2020, 08:09:40 PM »
I owned the hybrid Jazz from 2011 to 2015 and found the acceleration to be responsive without any hint of lag.  If the engine is revving and the vehicle slow to respond then the main suspect is the CVT. How complete is the service history? In around 2013(?) Honda changed the recommended interval for the CVT fluid change from 4 years / 50k miles to 2 years / 25k miles to reflect experience with the MK 1 Jazz CVT once they reached older age and crud accumulated in the system due to insufficient flushing. You can read about the MK 1 Jazz CVT problems in the Mk 1 Jazz sub-forum.

If the engine itself is slow to respond then how healthy is the battery? Have you tried looking at the battery charge / power flow info on the multi-function display. If the IMA motor isn't contributing its 13HP then the engine may struggle to compensate. Also, I recall it's the DSI engine and hence 8 plugs. Many service people overlook the back row of plugs but if you've paid 240 then that should cover the cost of changing all 8 plugs (twice!).

Jocko

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2020, 09:27:03 PM »
Thought the 2011 Hybrid was a V-TEC?

culzean

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 08:58:48 AM »
Thought the 2011 Hybrid was a V-TEC?

IIRC they kept the twin spark for the Hybrid
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clivech

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2020, 08:59:56 AM »
Ok, some quick replies. Dealer ran diagnostic: no problems. So battery must be ok. They just replaced the CVT fluid yesterday and the plugs a month ago (all 8). That's the point. All these things have been covered. Their only suggestions are fuel filter and valve clearances, but no one really believes this is the problem. I see there was a recall in 2013 of Fits in Japan because of a lag (and sometimes no acceleration at all), which was a software issue. But this appears to only have affected the double clutch gearbox cars. So i'm baffled, and so is the dealer. Any ideas?

culzean

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2020, 10:23:15 AM »
You have to realise that these days even dealers staff have no real depth of knowledge and only know that the OBD / laptop tells them.  I would go with John Ratsey and check the battery on the multi-function display in the car - seems like the dealer could make an awful lot of money out of you by 'trying' things. I think valve clearances are a red herring as I have never checked or adjusted valve clearances on any Honda I have owned, and they have all done big mileages ( between 130,000 to 190,000 miles ) - the fuel filter is a large one inside the tank and is supposed to be a 'lifetime' filter...  Don't let the dealer use you as a money-spinner by keep getting you to pay for things that will not work because they don't know any better or just want your money.

They have already siphoned over 300 out of your pocket for very little improvement, and it is a mistake to think that the 'dealer has checked things so they must be OK' - Rory ( a forum member ) went back to the dealer many times with his daughters car because of noises from the brakes and even told them it was worn pads maybe due to a sticking caliper ( after soliciting advice from this forum),  but they kept fobbing him off - in the end it was 'worn inner pad caused by a sticking brake caliper'...

For what it is worth I still think it is battery because as John Ratsey says the motor is there to ensure decent acceleration from standstill - which is exactly where your problem is.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 10:32:37 AM by culzean »
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jazzavac

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2020, 01:40:43 PM »
Try to disable "Eco" mode - it reduces torque provided by engine, and use "S" gear for best performance.

In "D", especially with "green flower" enabled, acceleration is delayed with effect you describe.

Also, frog progressive acceleration, change your driving style, so you press throttle pedal gradually rather than instantly.
Reason is to keep CVT gearbox in optimal rpm range.
In D mode, flip left paddle, just before you push throttle pedal, and engine response should be instantaneous.

Also, you could try to use paddles which overrides CVT logic and emulate manual gear change. Response to throttle should be linear, like in car with manual gearbox.

I had the similar problem for first couple months, but once I learned how CVT works, very happy now, even in eco mode.

clivech

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2020, 11:28:41 AM »
Ok, couple of interesting ideas here. Readout on the screen does not show problem with battery. I'm not using eco mode. I'm inclined to agree about fuel filter and valve clearances: they just don't seem likely culprits, even adding them together. It's a very definite hesitation: I depress the accelerator and nothing happens for a moment. Then it accelerates, but with a jerk, like it's catching up with the delay. I've tried driving as smoothly as possible, but I need the car to respond to my foot, otherwise I get into trouble trying to slot into small gaps at roundabouts (traffic around here is very heavy these days and you really have to take your chances when they come up!). My Prius is smooth as silk (but rather ponderous!). I don't want to have to drive in S mode all the time, because that really does affect mpg. And having to use the paddles (one of which has broken off anyway!) is a pain. The car should perform smoothly without these interventions. Shouldn't it?!

Jocko

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2020, 11:33:55 AM »
The Jazz has a fly by wire throttle. It could be that the throttle position sensor, a potentiometer, has a faulty track. Same as a noisy volume control on a guitar or an amplifier.

VicW

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2020, 02:33:52 PM »
My Mk1 had a cable throttle and the hybrid in question uses the same DSI engine I think. When was the 'fly-by-wire' throttle introduced. My first Mk2 had it.

Vic.

Jocko

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2020, 02:41:43 PM »
My DSi Mk 1 has it. The cable only goes to the top of the engine where it operates the throttle position sensor, which sends the signal to the ECU.

Item 5

« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 02:46:10 PM by Jocko »

John Ratsey

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2020, 08:40:03 PM »
It's a very definite hesitation: I depress the accelerator and nothing happens for a moment. Then it accelerates, but with a jerk, like it's catching up with the delay.
Can you clarify if it's the engine which is hesitating or the car? It's normal for the CVT to introduce some lag in response as it lets the engine initially accelerate faster than the vehicle. That said, I don't recall any such lag when I drove the Jazz hybrid as the motor provided some useful low-end torque.

I'm sure that the hybrid Jazz is fly by wire throttle. That would be needed to decide the balance of effort between engine and motor.

If the engine is hesitating then that's where to focus the investigations. What annual mileages does the MOT history show? If only a few thousand miles per year then it's possible that the vehicle spent a lot of time pottering around towns on short trips and the engine has warmed up enough to burn off unwanted deposits. Putting some Redex in the fuel tank plus some long trips might help but the EGR valve etc might need cleaning. See, for example, the end of this discussion https://www.hrvforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1184&sid=18ce4d78c069176571af589878c0607e&start=10 .

clivech

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2020, 11:31:54 PM »
The throttle position sensor is a good idea. It feels like it could be a communication lag. It doesn't feel like an engine hesitation, which might be accompanied by a misfire. When the engine gets the message, it goes. But by then it feels like I have accelerated too much (compensating for the lack of response initially) and it goes off with a kick. I wonder how to test the fly-by-wire accelerator system?

Jocko

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Re: Acceleration lag
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2020, 10:10:55 AM »
It is a potentiometer as far as I am aware. Unplug and check as below.
https://www.wikihow.com/Test-a-Potentiometer

Or try your local breakers for a used replacement.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 10:13:53 AM by Jocko »

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