Author Topic: Cold start issue  (Read 869 times)

Roddy0000

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Cold start issue
« on: January 06, 2020, 08:02:37 PM »

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My Honda: 2017 Honda jazz my 3 CVT

Cold start
ę on: Today at 07:50:50 PM Ľ
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Hi, not sure whether this exact problem has been discussed but here goes. In the last week on a couple of occasions when starting from cold, once in the garage and once out today, the engine revs started quite low and then speeded up to normal speed on choke. We went out this afternoon, did half hour journey, stopped for about half an hour and half hour journeyed back. Left car outside tonight in the damp for a couple of hours and went to start it tonight and did the same. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Many thanks. Rod

ColinB

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Re: Cold start issue
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 11:01:42 AM »
Others have commented on this. In particular there was a previous member called andruec (I think heís left now) who posted extensively about it, try searching for his posts, eg
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10095.msg59372#msg59372

Roddy0000

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Re: Cold start issue
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 09:33:38 AM »
Has anyone got a dealership to admit to this issue and find the fault or is it something we have to live with?  Ty

jazzaro

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Re: Cold start issue
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2020, 12:28:33 PM »
Sometimes it happens also to my Jazz, both in cold and hot weather.
When you push the start button or you turn the key in start position, the ECU performs a brief check, if all important circuits are ok it gives power to the starter motor; then, when shafts start rotating, a sensor has to detect dead centers position, another the "zero position" of the camshaft (we have the i-vtec, so angles can vary), another the oil pressure, another the fuel pressure and so on, then the ecu can start powering spark plugs and fuel injectors in the exact moment. Most of the times this process is very quick, so you push the button and the engine starts immediately. Sometimes  the dead center missing tooth (cog?) has to pass more than one or two times n front of the sensor to be detected (dust, low speed, ...), or the fuel pump needs more time to reach the working pressure, or others... so the start process could need a little more time.
I'm not worried about it.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 09:37:39 AM by jazzaro »

Bellasdad

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Re: Cold start issue
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2020, 05:27:13 PM »
Nice explanation thanks.
When all the ingredients of this perfect storm come together what symptom do you experience?
With me, on the very rare occasion this happens, I turn the key to the crank position and instead of an immediate fire up the engine turns over for a good few seconds before starting.
Itís not something Iím overly concerned about but it was a little disconcerting when I first experienced it.

culzean

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Re: Cold start issue
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2020, 06:11:10 PM »
Try not trying to start engine until fuel gauge has moved up and stabilised.  This gives the fuel pressure time to build,  although IIRC the MK3 with direct injection has an electric lift pump and an engine driven high pressure fuel pump ( and an engine driven vacuum pump for the brake servo because of lack on inlet manifold vacuum ).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

jazzaro

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Re: Cold start issue
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 08:11:33 PM »
Nice explanation thanks.
You're welcome (our teachers recommends this answer when someone say thank you).
Quote
When all the ingredients of this perfect storm come together what symptom do you experience?
With me, on the very rare occasion this happens, I turn the key to the crank position and instead of an immediate fire up the engine turns over for a good few seconds before starting.
Itís not something Iím overly concerned about but it was a little disconcerting when I first experienced it.
The same behaviour of your engine. My starting "problems" come once every a couple of months, most of times the engine turns over for some seconds and then it starts fine, sometimes it's like an old carburator... some seconds of turning and then it starts with a sort of rattle, 4-500 rpm for one or two seconds and then it goes fine. I have the keyless start, so I cannot wait for longer ECU checks or fuel pressure raise; simply I press the button and wait.
This "problem" looks very similar to a real fault in many Renault engines between 2000 and 2008, petrol and diesel: the crank sensor, used to detect both the dead center position and rpm speed of the engine, many times was defective, plug electric contacts could become bad by vibrations and wet, and the symptom was always the same: the starter motor run  but engine did not start, until something (vibration, someone touching the cable, luck,..) restored the electrical link between sensor and its plug. This was a fault, so Renault had to fix the problem modifyng sensor and plug, in the case of the Jazz I'm not worried, the engine can take a couple of seconds but it always starts.
Try not trying to start engine until fuel gauge has moved up and stabilised.  This gives the fuel pressure time to build,  although IIRC the MK3 with direct injection has an electric lift pump and an engine driven high pressure fuel pump ( and an engine driven vacuum pump for the brake servo because of lack on inlet manifold vacuum ).
Right...
Also the 1.3, port injection, has a vacuum pump for brake servo, due to the atkinson engine: atkinson engines usually work with the throttle valve more opened than a standard Otto cycle engine, this is the matter of the lower vacuum in the inlet manifold. Easily also the 1.5 direct injection works in atkinson cycle.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 08:24:54 PM by jazzaro »

Roddy0000

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Re: Cold start issue
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2020, 09:00:03 AM »
Sometimes it happens also to my Jazz, both in cold and hot weather.
When you push the start button or you turn the key in start position, the ECU performs a brief check, if all is ok it gives power to the starter motor; when shafts start rotating, a sensor has to detect dead centers position, another the "zero position" of the camshaft (we have the i-vtec, so angles can vary), another the oil pressure, another the fuel pressure and so on, then the ecu can start powering spark plugs and fuel injectors in the exact moment. Most of the times this process is very quick, so you push the button and the engine starts immediately. Sometimes  the dead center missing tooth (cog?) has to pass more than a time in front of the sensor to be detected (dust, low speed, ...), or the fuel pump needs more time to reach the working pressure, so the start process needs a little more time.
I'm not worried about it.
Ok so looks like it is something to
live with. The other thing I was thinking of is to wait until most of the lights are out before starting.  Cannot really understand why this did not happen before this. Jazz is 2017 but did not get it to 2019. Wondering why it has only just started.  Thanks for all the replies.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 01:55:02 PM by Roddy0000 »

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