Author Topic: Enabling the ABS  (Read 1315 times)

drooopy

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Enabling the ABS
« on: September 27, 2019, 09:42:29 AM »
Hi guys,
I've recently bought a 2004 Jazz and I noticed that the ABS is not working but in the same time I don't have any light turned on in the dash. The light is not turning on even when the I'm starting the engine.
I've even took the plug out of the ABS pump and it still didn't throw any error codes.
Is there any chance that any of the 9 owners before me had problems with the ABS they chose to rewrite the ECU and de-activate the ABS? And what can I do to turn it back on so I can try and fix the actual issue  ?

Thanks

Jocko

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2019, 09:51:54 AM »
Hi droopy. What you are describing is an immediate MOT fail. If a car has ABS then the ABS warning light must work to pass an MOT. The MOT inspector should check it, on initial ignition on. You need to get the system checked out immediately, as it could void your insurance. Sorry to start your membership here on such a depressing note!

drooopy

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2019, 10:49:15 AM »
It's not such a tragedy as I only paid 400 for it and intend to keep it as a stop gap car for when I sell my other one. I looked at the fuses and all look good. I'll have a look at the instrument cluster to see if the bulb is still there. What is puzzling me is why I don't have have any obd2 error codes?

Jocko

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2019, 12:22:07 PM »
OBD2 only covers engine errors. You need specific software to interrogate the ABS and SRS.

sparky Paul

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2019, 07:22:28 PM »
If the ABS light doesn't illuminate during the self test, that 'should' be a MOT fail as Jocko says. I would guess the same as you, bulb missing.

Jocko is also correct in saying there will be no OBD2 codes. You need Honda HDS or one of the Delphi/SnapOn/etc. pro diagnostic systems to read fault codes from ABS.

drooopy

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2019, 07:50:18 PM »
I have solved the mistery regarding my Abs light. It has been covered with tissue paper.  :o
I've started checking the resistance on the ABS sensors and only managed to check the ones in the back as it got dark. Does anybody know the correct value for them?
Tomorrow i'm gonna check the ones in the front to see if they have the same value and then go to the pump itself. 
Did anybody attempt to repair the ABS pump?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 07:58:30 PM by drooopy »

sparky Paul

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2019, 08:17:25 PM »
Not measured the ones on the Jazz, but they're normally between 500Ω and 1.5kΩ. Any open circuit is an obvious problem, but the cables to the front move and a break may only be evident at certain steering angles.

There is another reasonably common issue that afflicts the Jazz, if yours has a few miles on it. The pump motor fails, usually it's the motor brushes that have worn out. The brushes are not made to be replaceable, but if you are reasonably handy, and adept with a soldering iron, they can be replaced without removing the pump or disturbing any brake lines.

A diagnostic with Honda HDS will report a series of codes for pump motor failure.

drooopy

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 08:29:52 PM »
Thanks Paul,
The car has around 126k miles and i'm the 10th owner so considering that somebody decided to just cover the ABS bulb instead of repairing the problem leads me to believe that it's the actual pump and not an abs sensor which would have been cheap to replace.
The sensors in the back showed 673Ω on my chinese multimeter so I guess they are ok.
I will give it a try tomorrow to look at the pump motor and the ECU(as i've seen that can be problems on the soldering points). Can i find the brushes for sale anywhere or do I have to buy something closer in size and fabricate them into the slots?

Cheers

sparky Paul

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 09:00:06 PM »
Can i find the brushes for sale anywhere or do I have to buy something closer in size and fabricate them into the slots?

That's what I had to do, they are quite small.

Taking the motor out and splitting it to check the brushes isn't too bad, you just have to be careful splitting the motor as tension washers fall out. You can see if the brushes are at the extent of their travel without going any further, I managed to tweak the braids a bit and got several months out of the old brushes before the ABS light came on again.

There's a thread here with the brush sizes etc..

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10794.0

drooopy

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2019, 09:18:30 AM »
Hi Paul,
I took apart the motor and it looks like I need new brushes as well.
Cheers
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 09:39:48 AM by drooopy »

sparky Paul

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2019, 10:23:21 AM »
Yes, I think you've had your money's worth out of those...

...and most likely found your problem. Good luck with with the brushes, beats 1400 for a new ABS pump from Honda.

drooopy

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2019, 12:22:50 PM »
It's this motor always turning when the car is on? It's interesting that it's such a big problem on Honda as I haven't heard of abs pump failures on other manufacturers.

sparky Paul

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2019, 12:31:45 PM »
It's this motor always turning when the car is on? It's interesting that it's such a big problem on Honda as I haven't heard of abs pump failures on other manufacturers.

It's cropped up a few times on the forum.

The motor spins all the time, if you put a stethoscope (or a long screwdriver to the bone under your ear) to the pump, you can hear it running. When the brushes are kaputt, the motor spins up then stops, or it doesn't spin at all.

culzean

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2019, 12:51:56 PM »
It's this motor always turning when the car is on? It's interesting that it's such a big problem on Honda as I haven't heard of abs pump failures on other manufacturers.

Just go on other forums and you will see failures aplenty - the ABS kit is not made by Honda - there are a few specialist makers that they all buy from, just like the airbag failures,  most makes of cars got them from the same maker.

Except for some specialist motors all DC motors need brushes,  so that will be a weak point in all the ABS systems. 

https://beemerpros.com/how-to-deal-with-volkswagen-abs-module-failure/
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 12:53:28 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

sparky Paul

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Re: Enabling the ABS
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 02:48:01 PM »
Except for some specialist motors all DC motors need brushes,  so that will be a weak point in all the ABS systems. 

I can't remember exactly, but ours was definitely over 150K miles  when the pump fialed, so I don't think that's unreasonable really. Unfortunately, it's just one of the drawbacks of the complexity of modern cars once they reach an age where electronics start to fail. The brushes do seem quite puny though.

I think what makes it a bigger issue for many is the cost of repair at the main dealer, and indeed the cost of a new ABS modulator. You can, of course, send it to somewhere like BBA-reman for repair, but that means having to take it off, and it's still going to cost 200-300. You could also fit a used one, but as I said in the other thread, they are all over 10 years old now and likely to be well on their way.

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