Author Topic: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?  (Read 1218 times)

robertjazz

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Hi, I have a Honda Jazz 2008 Gli 1.3 GE (MY09) and I notice that the steering wheel becomes hard to turn when I do the following parallel parking maneuver:

1. Position beside the car I will park behind
2. Stop
3. Turn the steering wheel full lock to the left (steering is still soft at this point)
4. Very slowly reverse until the car is in a 45 degree angle
5. Stop
6. Turn the steering wheel 1.5 times to straighten the front wheels (steering starts to become stiff)
7. Very slowly reverse until wheels are near the kerb line
8.Stop
9. Turn the steering wheel full lock to the right (steering becomes stiffer)
10. Very slowly reverse
11, Stop when car is parallel to the kerb
12. Turn the steering wheel 1.5 times to the left to straighten the front wheels (steering is still stiff)

From this document: https://www.autoserviceprofessional....teering?Page=2 :

Quote
The steering warning light will illuminate during the light check cycle and when the EPS is in assist off mode. The steering warning light will not illuminate during limited assist operation. By turning the steering wheel all the way to one side, it will cause the EPS system to provide the maximum amount of current to the EPS motor. If the steering wheel is then held in this position for an extended period of time, the system will go into protection mode so the motor doesn’t overheat. If this occurs the EPS system will limit the amount of current to the motor and reduce the level of power assist. If it senses high system temperature the overload protection mode will enable. If a sensor or other another component in the EPS system fails, the self-diagnostics should detect the fault, set a code and disable power-assist.

So it seems the steering overload protection mode is getting triggered in my car and it progressively reduces the power steering assist in this maneuver. I would like to ask for others who own the same model, does the steering also become stiff if you perform the same maneuver? Is this a normal characteristic of the Honda Jazz/Fit? Or is the overload protection getting triggered too early in my car?

Some other information:
-Steering is good in normal driving and other maneuvers
-There is no EPS error indication (or any other error indication) lighting up in my dashboard
-There were no error codes found when a scanner was attached to the car
-Wheels/Tyres are normal (175/65 R15), tyre pressure is correct (32 psi front/30 psi back)
-Battery was tested with a battery tester, all results are good (Volts 12.27V, IR 8.19, 332 CCA, starter good, alternator good)
-The previous owner used 205/40 R17 tyres (<-- could this have altered some EPS module settings?)

Cheers.

Jocko

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2019, 08:41:47 AM »
Welcome. I have a 2006 Mk 1 and the power steering is light during all parking manoeuvres. Has this just started to happen? Have you had the steering alignment checked?
205/40 R17 tyres are BIG and may have had a detrimental effect on the EPS motor.

sparky Paul

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2019, 09:13:49 AM »
It doesn't sound normal, it sounds like you have covered the most likely culprits, battery, etc..

It may be worth getting a diagnostic done to see why the protection is cutting in, if indeed that's what is happening - there may be some stored fault codes.

culzean

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2019, 09:17:27 AM »
Yes 205 tyres are big and turning the steering wheel while wheels are not rotating is the very worst thing you can do to power steering and suspension - it puts an enormous load on both.  I always make sure wheels are rotating when I am turning the steering wheel,  it doesn't matter how slowly they are rotating it eases the load on the system.  When I am parking or making 3 point turn as I am ending one turn I am always turning the steering wheel in the direction I will be going next to set up the car.  I notice a lot of women in supermarket carparks turning the steering wheel from lock to lock while wheels are stationary - you can hear the tyres trying to remove the tarmac. 

IIRC the Jazz steering motor can draw over 40 amps from battery,  I know you have had battery tested but I used to work in battery industry ( making the automated machinery for assembling batteries ) and the general opinion on battery test machines is that they really don't work very well.  If your battery is over 5 years old I would replace it anyway.  Standby battery voltage should be nearer 12.6volts - and the 'battery condition check' window in top of battery which shows different colours depending upon state of battery, normally green for OK is only checking one cell out of the 6 - it just shows specific gravity of the electrolyte which is the best indicator of battery charge.  EPS places a big load on battery and people on here have had many problems cured just by fitting a decent new battery.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 09:27:59 AM by culzean »
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VicW

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2019, 01:41:49 PM »
Robert,
          At points 6,9, and 12 you are stationary when you are turning the wheels so the steering will feel heavier surely.

Vic.

robertjazz

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2019, 04:56:01 AM »
Yes 205 tyres are big and turning the steering wheel while wheels are not rotating is the very worst thing you can do to power steering and suspension - it puts an enormous load on both.  I always make sure wheels are rotating when I am turning the steering wheel,  it doesn't matter how slowly they are rotating it eases the load on the system.  When I am parking or making 3 point turn as I am ending one turn I am always turning the steering wheel in the direction I will be going next to set up the car.  I notice a lot of women in supermarket carparks turning the steering wheel from lock to lock while wheels are stationary - you can hear the tyres trying to remove the tarmac. 

IIRC the Jazz steering motor can draw over 40 amps from battery,  I know you have had battery tested but I used to work in battery industry ( making the automated machinery for assembling batteries ) and the general opinion on battery test machines is that they really don't work very well.  If your battery is over 5 years old I would replace it anyway.  Standby battery voltage should be nearer 12.6volts - and the 'battery condition check' window in top of battery which shows different colours depending upon state of battery, normally green for OK is only checking one cell out of the 6 - it just shows specific gravity of the electrolyte which is the best indicator of battery charge.  EPS places a big load on battery and people on here have had many problems cured just by fitting a decent new battery.

That's interesting. The power steering in the MK2 actually draws more, 60 amps (I found in your post here: https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=438.msg63847#msg63847). Aside from the battery test, the battery indicator shows green, connectors look ok, and there's no issue when turning on lights/fm radio/satnav and also when starting up the car.

Is it possible that the battery is failing although it seems "normal"?

The battery is only 1.5 years old. But in these 1.5 years the previous owner rarely used the car. I'm not sure if that could have caused the battery to deteriorate.

What brand of battery is good?

Additionally:
Replacing the 205 tyres with the 175 ones have alleviated the issue (Previously the steering was close to impossible to turn, now it is just unusually hard but can still be turned with enough effort). Also, my friend who's parking technique doesn't involve putting the steering wheel on full left/right lock for a long period nor steering while the the car is stopped cannot trigger the issue.

So it seems what's triggering the problem is putting the steering in full lock and keeping it at that for some time. Technical sources say it draws 60 amps when it does this, and if the motor becomes hot, the overload protection will kick in. So my suspicions:

-Bad battery (not able to provide enough power while car is stopped or moving very slowly and wheel is turned full lock)
-EPS motor is overheating
-EPS motor is not overheating but the temperature sensor is faulty and thinks it is
-EPS settings have somehow been changed, overload protection is getting triggered earlier than it should be

Are there any other tests that I can do before replacing the battery?

robertjazz

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2019, 05:11:53 AM »
Welcome. I have a 2006 Mk 1 and the power steering is light during all parking manoeuvres. Has this just started to happen? Have you had the steering alignment checked?
205/40 R17 tyres are BIG and may have had a detrimental effect on the EPS motor.

Thanks. The issue has been there since I bought the car, though I only noticed it when I tried parallel parking maneuvers. The previous owner said he didn't notice this issue before. You may actually not notice it at all depending on the way you parallel park, or if you rarely parallel park or don't do any maneuver that involves steering full-lock left/right while car is stationary.

I didn't have the steering alignment checked, but it seems fine when I'm driving. Front and rear alignment was last performed last year.

Jocko

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2019, 08:53:02 AM »
As has been said above, turning the wheels when stationary is a no no in any car. You should keep moving while steering. The secret is to creep very slowly to allow you time to turn the wheel from lock to lock. I have been driving for 55 years, during which time I have driven cars, vans (big and small), buses, trucks and fork lifts. It is the same principle for them all.

culzean

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2019, 09:10:24 AM »
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11286.msg73059#msg73059

Above thread gives number of Yuasa Silver battery ( both the Halfords number and the proper Yuasa designation ).  They are very low self-discharge and give you a useful boost over standard battery in both standby ( 40 as compared to 35a/h ) and cranking amps ( 340 CCA compared to 280 amps) in same size package, they have 5 year warranty and are rated for 50,000 starts compared to around 20,000 for standard battery..   

Leaving lead acid battery in low state of charge is asking for trouble, they should preferably be kept within the top 20% ( between 80 and 100% charged ) - this does not apply to lithium ion batteries which do not like to be kept fully charged.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

sparky Paul

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2019, 09:42:25 AM »
So my suspicions:

-Bad battery (not able to provide enough power while car is stopped or moving very slowly and wheel is turned full lock)
-EPS motor is overheating
-EPS motor is not overheating but the temperature sensor is faulty and thinks it is
-EPS settings have somehow been changed, overload protection is getting triggered earlier than it should be

Are there any other tests that I can do before replacing the battery?

As I mentioned earlier, you could get a diagnostic using Honda HDS, it can read live data from the EPS while it's working its stuff, as well as monitor system voltage from the battery. I can't remember if there's temperatures and motor load in the live data when I looked, but if the system monitors it, I would think it should be there. 

Some modern electronic systems on cars can be susceptible to transient volt drops, and faulty batteries can give odd problems before they exhibit any of the normal failure symptoms.

It's a bit of a long shot, but you could plug one of the cheap LED voltage monitors into the cig lighter socket and keep an eye on it while manoeuvring, it might show something up.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 03:42:13 PM by sparky Paul »

robertjazz

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2019, 11:22:52 AM »
Thanks for the ideas.  :D

I'll do further investigation and update here.

robertjazz

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Re: EPS overload protection getting triggered when parallel parking?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2020, 10:32:39 PM »
Just an update on this.

Last year, while servicing the car with an authorized Honda dealer, the service attendant said that based on their experience, this issue is "common" for the Honda Jazz. 

So to workaround it, I simply avoided the maneuver I described in my first post.  I never encountered this issue since then.

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