Author Topic: Honda e  (Read 1844 times)

peteo48

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2019, 10:36:23 PM »
Dead right Jocko - I think Robert Llewellyn is a pretty straight guy.

I like the look of the Honda E. It looks a cut above some of the other offerings but here's the thing - the price is going to be north of 25,000.

Is it the case that car manufacturers quite literally don't want to sell these cars in any great numbers because they have so much capital tied up in ICE's? I simply refuse to believe that a battery, a motor and a reduction gear is more costly to produce than an Internal Combustion Engine and gearbox. I can get a top of the range Jazz for 19,000 (ish) and a Corsa or a Fiesta for a lot less than that.

I find it difficult believe that they couldn't knock out an EV for, say, 15,000.

Interested to hear from anybody who knows any actual reason for the high prices of EV's other than to deter too many people from getting on board.

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2019, 01:47:57 PM »
I think the markup in cost is to fund future development. The manufacturers know they have to get better batteries and more efficient systems so the early adopters have to pay that price. No motor manufacturer sees ICE as the future, no matter how much they wish it were the case. A new 1904 Ford Model B cost $2,000 ($56,000 at today's prices). All to fund development.

peteo48

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2019, 02:17:29 PM »
I think the markup in cost is to fund future development. The manufacturers know they have to get better batteries and more efficient systems so the early adopters have to pay that price. No motor manufacturer sees ICE as the future, no matter how much they wish it were the case. A new 1904 Ford Model B cost $2,000 ($56,000 at today's prices). All to fund development.

Yes - I can see that and I agree that development costs have to be factored in. That said, they will presumably want a phased elimination of ICE cars to protect existing investments. At north of 25,000 and more probably 30,000 this little car remains strictly one for the better off.

I'd have to remortgage the house!

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2019, 02:19:18 PM »
I'd have to mortgage my house for a new Jazz! I don't think my landlord would be very pleased though.

peteo48

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2019, 02:49:15 PM »
We could always try money laudering :P

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2019, 02:55:42 PM »
Here we go, right off thread, but I have considered that. If I had a connection, that wanted money laundered, I would be up for it.

John Ratsey

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2019, 08:36:02 PM »
Even though Lithium battery prices have dropped a long way in recent years (see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/battery-reality-there-s-nothing-better-than-lithium-ion-coming-soon) at $200/kWh then the vehicle contains about $7k of batteries. Add on the costs of battery management (charging, thermal management ...) then the battery pack cost could come to $10k which would mean 10k once taxes are included. Add in allowances for R&D and risk (new technology might have big warranty claims if something isn't right) and the price isn't padded as much as it initially looks. There might also be design aspects such as the real battery capacity being more than mentioned both to allow for wear (loss of capacity) and keeping the charging and discharging away from the extremes of the possible charge range as that's where much of the wear takes place.

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2019, 03:12:41 PM »
Renault have just announced prices for the new 50 kWh Zoe, but more importantly they are dropping the entry level 22 kWh and are now supplying the 40 kWh for the price of the deleted 22 kWh Zoe. Battery packs can be leased or bought outright. It is still expensive compared with comparable ICE cars but the prices are coming down.
It will certainly put pressure on Honda and the price of the upcoming Honda e with its 36 kWh battery. Will they try and compete with Renault's price?

Nice report on the Honda e here: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/honda/e-electric-ev/

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 05:42:42 PM »

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019, 08:47:01 AM »
I've picked my one.



It is only available in Black, Gray, Blue, Yellow, and White. Yellow is the standard colour. The rest attract a 500 premium.

zzaj

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2019, 10:35:49 AM »
I've picked my one.



It is only available in Black, Gray, Blue, Yellow, and White. Yellow is the standard colour. The rest attract a 500 premium.

I must say that looks almost identical to my first Honda Civic in 1979!

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2019, 10:55:04 AM »
Almost identical apart from the smoothed edges.


Kenneve

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2019, 11:12:43 AM »
Not happy at all with the single pedal control.

After 65 years of driving, it is an automatic reaction to step on the brake in an emergency situation.
Can you imagine the result of doing that in a single pedal car? it's the the exact opposite to a conventional car and in my opinion extremely dangerous!
What happens if you slide your foot sideways off the pedal, do you get maximum braking, limited maybe by ABS?

As Jocko say's, it's a throwback to 1979 or thereabouts, too expensive, not impressed at all.

Ralph

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2019, 12:53:17 PM »
Not happy at all with the single pedal control.

After 65 years of driving, it is an automatic reaction to step on the brake in an emergency situation.
Can you imagine the result of doing that in a single pedal car? it's the the exact opposite to a conventional car and in my opinion extremely dangerous!
What happens if you slide your foot sideways off the pedal, do you get maximum braking, limited maybe by ABS?

As Jocko say's, it's a throwback to 1979 or thereabouts, too expensive, not impressed at all.

I don’t know about the Honda but the Nissan Leaf single pedal system still has a separate brake pedal for emergencies and stopping quickly. It can also be turned off and used like a conventional automatic
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:55:36 PM by Ralph »

Jocko

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Re: Honda e
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2019, 01:39:25 PM »
Yes, it has a brake pedal.



One pedal is something you can switch on. It is just extreme regeneration. If you want to stop quick you just apply the brake as normal.

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