Author Topic: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz  (Read 1492 times)

Chris_Music

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« on: May 07, 2019, 02:37:08 PM »
Hey Guys

I'd thought I'd make a separate thread for this, as it has turned out to be a pretty big and intense project.

My only real gripe with the Jazz (apart from the lack of a decent powered version), is the road noise. The 2nd Gen is much better than the 1st Gen, but it's still very noticeable.

So I decided to embark on a mission to try and fix that.

I had experimented with Dynamat sound deadening on my old Civic a decade ago.
Prices of Dynamat have risen a lot, as it's a US product. But the UK has a version called Silent Coat which is basically the same, just a lot cheaper.

I bought two boxes of the 40 sheet bulk pack, and set to work on the Jazz, stripping the interior, which was surprisingly easy to remove.

I used this service manual to help me remove the interior properly without breaking anything: http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/index.html

Main Interior removed apart from the dash, as I didn't want to open that can of worms!!


End of Day 1. Got the bulk of the sheets down:


End of Day 2. All the gaps and fiddly bits done, and main interior complete:



I will update this thread as I go along! So watch the space for more progress, and the all important final results!

123Drive!

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz 1.4 ES i-Shift
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 09:31:32 PM »
That's amazing! I wished I could do this myself or that you live next door and I pay you to do it, lol! Hope it's all fun and most of all, keep the car a but quiet.

Faithfull

  • New Member
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Helios Yellow GD1
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 09:31:23 AM »
Looks great and certainly something i had in my mind to do to my GD as i find the road noise quite loud.

Can i ask where did you source the Silent Coat?

Chris_Music

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 12:17:48 PM »
That's amazing! I wished I could do this myself or that you live next door and I pay you to do it, lol! Hope it's all fun and most of all, keep the car a but quiet.

Haha thanks, it's not actually that difficult to do, it's just very time consuming that's all!
You just need the space, a trim removal tool set, wrench set for bolts and a sound proofing roller tool, a pair of gloves, and you're good to go.

Looks great and certainly something i had in my mind to do to my GD as i find the road noise quite loud.

Can i ask where did you source the Silent Coat?

I bought mine from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004WCU37W

In hindsight I probably went over kill with the silent coat. I wish I had done more research, as I probably didn't need to coat absolutely everything. I did it because a lot of the pictures I saw (including the ones on silent coats website and accompanying instructions) showed absolutely everything covered. But from some of the reading I've been doing, you only need to cover 50-75% of the panels. But it does say for best results, 100% coverage is recommended, but i think it's the law of diminishing returns, 100% coverage won't make that much difference compared to 75% coverage.

What I should've done was 50% coverage of the silent coat, then 100% coverage of closed cell foam, then a layer of Mass Loaded Vinyl. But i guess we live and learn :).

Chris_Music

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2019, 02:27:50 PM »
Sound Deadening Part 2: Car Door Speaker Upgrade

I thought this was a good time to upgrade the standard speakers. I didn't want to go too crazy, as theres no point in running anything too powerful if I'm still using the stock headunit. And I didn't want to spend money on a new headunit, amps and sub. So I got two pairs of Alpine SXE-1725S speakers, as recommended in this build: http://gafferlicious.com/jazz.html, cost me 55 for the pair from DynamicSounds.



I did a lot of experimenting with the speaker mounts to get them to work with the new speakers and fit the door card.
The guide above said to trim the Alpine speakers rather than the modify the stock speakers. But I felt that I would rather cut the stock speakers up than my brand new ones! Especially if I decided later on down the line that I wanted to go all out and get a better sound system, as I could at least sell them if I hadn't cut into them!

So I ripped out the original speaker cone, and to make it fit properly, i removed the foam and sawed off the plastic ring, so I could screw the new speaker into the plastic:



I then wired the original Honda plug to the speakers, to retain the use of original factory plugs:




I then quickly realised the door card wouldn't fit over the speakers with the metal screw spacers, so I had to come up with a different solution.

For the next two speakers, I snapped off the plastic ring, rather than using a saw, and I retained the original foam ring, and cut spaces for the screws, and I used a metal file to slightly shorten the screws, so they didn't poke out the other side.



As for the two I had already cut and thrown the original foam, I used some adhesive foam strip I had left over from my spoiler install, and I used it instead to make the spacer:



It doesn't look pretty, but it does the job!!

They sound much nicer than the stock speakers, but they could still be better! But I'm happy with them for now. I generally spend most of my time listening to audio books in the car, so for the times I do actually listen to music, these speakers will do!

Chris_Music

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2019, 03:13:48 PM »
Sound Deadening Part 3: The Car Doors

After doing the main interior, I found myself not having enough Silent Coat left to do the doors and roof. So I had to order another bulk pack of 40 sheets.

To complement the dampening sheets, ordered 24 sheets of 10mm Closed Cell Foam for the second layer of sound deadening. Though I later found out it works out much cheaper to order them in big rolls rather than individual sheets.



Getting the door cards off is fairly simple process, but working inside the doors wasn't!

It took me about 4-5 hours per door, so I spread them out over a few days, doing a door a day:

I started by doing the rear doors first, then did the front doors. So if I made any mistakes, at least they would be on the rears, and I would learn from them when it came to do the front doors.

Outer layer of Silent Coat on first

Followed by the layer of Closed Cell Foam

Then the inner layer of Silent Coat, covering any open gaps or holes (I circled all the holes I needed to keep with permanent marker to make it easier)

Then some Silent Coat and Closed Cell Foam applied to the door card for the final layer of Silence.

In a lot of the guides I've seen, it has said to replace the moisture barrier membrane with just using the sound dampening material, but I decided to keep it for two reasons. 1 it's a pain to clean that stuff off, and it's not causing any harm just leaving it there, and 2 if a window got broken, any company that replaces it, will have to cut the and remove the silent coat to get inside, and they mighty not put it back the same way, if at all, so by keeping the membrane, I know I won't be getting any leaks.


I then did the Rear Right door next:








The Front doors were a little trickier, as there was this box in the door card, which I believe is for added strength, but I managed to work around it.




Front Right Door:


I used paper to make a template that would fit the hole exactly

Door Card Before:

Door Card After:


Though I did have to remove the big bit of foam in the lower part, as the door card wouldn't fit back with it on, so I used Silent coat instead.

I used the stock white sound deadening from the door card to fill the hollow boxes in the door cards, to stop any resonating, which worked a trick!


Front Left Door:





Didn't make the same mistake with the foam on this door card:



The doors made a really big difference to the sound in the car, and the audio quality was much better as well!

More updates to follow soon :D!

Jaffa Jazz

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Jazz CVT mk 3 EX 2017 Sunset Orange
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2019, 05:38:46 PM »
Wow what a project, rather you than me Gunga Din as they say.
But It must greatly improve the acoustics etc well done that man i am impressed.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..😀

smilertoo

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.39l Honda Jazz 2004 Ice Blue - 45mpg max/40mpg normal
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 12:37:04 AM »
I did the inside of my front doors and the spare wheel well with it last year, works great but its very heavy, doing the whole interior like that would be like adding a persons weight to the car.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5101
  • Country: england
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 09:16:17 AM »
I did the inside of my front doors and the spare wheel well with it last year, works great but its very heavy, doing the whole interior like that would be like adding a persons weight to the car.

Now you know why car makers do not fit any more padding than they have to, it affects car weight and hence performance and MPG. You also have to look at how the padding behaves in case if fire, does it give off toxic fumes etc.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Chris_Music

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 09:57:29 AM »
Wow what a project, rather you than me Gunga Din as they say.
But It must greatly improve the acoustics etc well done that man i am impressed.

Thanks :), yes it really does make a difference! And the bass feels much better with no rattles.

I did the inside of my front doors and the spare wheel well with it last year, works great but its very heavy, doing the whole interior like that would be like adding a persons weight to the car.

Yes, it's about 45kg of extra weight for the Silent coat panels.

Now you know why car makers do not fit any more padding than they have to, it affects car weight and hence performance and MPG. You also have to look at how the padding behaves in case if fire, does it give off toxic fumes etc.

It says the foam is flame retardant, I don't know how the Silent Coat would behave in a fire, but I think it would be fine.

Before fitting the Silent Coat, I put the two unopened boxes of the stuff in the boot and drove around with them in for 2 weeks to see if it made any difference to the power and MPG figures (this was 30kg worth). It made no noticeable difference to me.
But now I have all 45kg in, I can say I do notice a very slight difference to the power of the car, it is ever so slightly slower (this could be placebo though), but I haven't really noticed much of a difference in MPG though. Weather (temperature) and driving style still have a much bigger impact!
I have noticed something that I wasn't quite expecting, the car handles a bit better. I don't know if its because the weight is distributed a bit better, but it was quite unexpected.

I don't really want to add any more weight to the car though. I could go down the Mass Loaded Vinyl route for the most silent ride, but that would be adding another 20kg+, and I think I would probably start noticing a difference with a total of 65kg of extra weight!

Chris_Music

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 11:12:41 AM »
Sound Deadening Part 4: Firewall and Front Fenders

So I decided to go a bit further with the sound deadening and try and target the harder to get to areas I felt were letting in noise.

Those being behind the engine (firewall) letting in engine noise, and behind the front fenders letting in road noise.

Getting to the firewall wasn't too hard to do, I just followed the guide on how to remove the cowl cover, it was reasonably easy. I still feel sorry for mechanics who have to work on the engine bay though!

Cover removed:


The removed parts which I will be giving a good clean before putting back!


The inner metal where I will be applying the sound deadening:


First stage with the Silent Coat:


Second stage with the 10mm Closed Cell Foam:


This actually made a noticeable improvement in reducing engine noise, but I feel for best results, I'd need to put it behind the dashboard, which I really don't want to have to do. But I might look into it and see if theres any easy way to do it by removing as little as possible. As no amount of quiet is worth the hassle of removing the dash!!

Next was behind the fenders, which was a much bigger task than I was expecting.
To get behind the fenders I had to remove the Front bumper, headlights, side skirts, part of the wheel well plastic, the plastic cover next to the tiny front window and part of the cowl cover. And I couldn't actually remove the fender completely, as the final bolt at the bottom was actually sealed on under all the underseal Honda put on from the factory, and I wasn't going to disturb that, so I had to do it with the fender still hanging on.

It was such a nightmare to do, and to be honest, only made a very slight difference to the road noise, so I kinda regret it, and wish I had put it inside the actual wheel well behind the plastic cover instead (something I will be doing at some point).

First stage with the Silent Coat:



Second stage with the 10mm Closed Cell Foam:




Next stage is the roof, then putting the closed cell foam in the main interior.
Then I will reassess the interior noise and take it from there.
I do notice noise coming though the door seals, so I'm going to look into how to improve that as well.
I feel like I'm trying to find a leak in a boat, and when I plug one hole, I notice another  ::)
But hopefully others can learn from my trial and error!

springswood

  • Bob the Jazz
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 147
  • Country: gb
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Jazz GE3 1.4 Sport 2008
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2019, 09:15:53 AM »
Have to say I'm impressed with the time and effort you're putting into this. Not just on the car but sharing the results here. Thanks.

Very interested to see what a difference the roof makes. It's a big resonator (sounding board) so could make quite a difference. It did cross my mind whether the handling change could be because the weight you added (half mine!) was low down. Obviously not so with the roof. I think there's an argument for only using a few random patches of the heavy stuff - it would spread the resonant frequencies and so reduce booming - and close cell the lot to dissipate energy. Might give some thermal insulation too. This the first proper warm weather since I got my Jazz and it does have a lot of solar gain.
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

Chris_Music

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2019, 05:03:03 PM »
Have to say I'm impressed with the time and effort you're putting into this. Not just on the car but sharing the results here. Thanks.

Very interested to see what a difference the roof makes. It's a big resonator (sounding board) so could make quite a difference. It did cross my mind whether the handling change could be because the weight you added (half mine!) was low down. Obviously not so with the roof. I think there's an argument for only using a few random patches of the heavy stuff - it would spread the resonant frequencies and so reduce booming - and close cell the lot to dissipate energy. Might give some thermal insulation too. This the first proper warm weather since I got my Jazz and it does have a lot of solar gain.

Thanks springwood. I wanted to share it on here for others to get ideas for their build, and to hear what works and what doesn't etc..

The roof did make a big difference, sort of. Doing the roof cut basically all of the sound coming from above, which felt really unnerving at first, as it was so quiet from above. But there's still sound coming from all other directions. I think at some point I'm going to have to say, I can't get it Rolls Royce quiet!
I think a lot of the sound is coming from the windows, which I can't really do anything about.
But I have a few tricks up my sleeve I want to try!

I have also noticed the car's stance is slightly lower, so the added weight done the job of lowering springs which is nice!

What did you do to your Jazz, sound deadening wise? I couldn't find anything in your posts.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 05:56:06 PM by Chris_Music »

Chris_Music

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz Si
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2019, 05:54:58 PM »
Sound Deadening Part 5: The Roof and Boot Lid

So the next big job was the roof (which turned out to be the easiest part to apply the sound deadening to).

In the service manual it says in order to remove the roof liner, you have to remove all the rear plastic trim, side trim, as well as the grab handles, sun visors and ceiling lights.

But seeing as it's fabric basically, I was convinced I could remove it by only doing the grab handles, visors and ceiling lights and jut pull the fabric over the plastics to actually remove it, saving me having to remove all the plastic panels again.

And it worked:



The roof was really easy to apply the Silent coat panels to, as it was basically one long flat panel:


I drove around like this for a few days until the closed cell foam sheets I had ordered arrived, and I hadn't realised just how much sound the roof liner on it's own actually removed.

10mm Closed Cell foam sheets arrived:


It actually worked out a lot more cost effective to order them in 1mx2m rolls. I ended up ordering 3 of them in total, which only cost me 36.

It was quite hard to work with them in large sheets compared to the smaller 50x30cm sheets I was ordering before. But I managed to get there in the end:


Putting the roof liner in was a lot harder than I was expecting.
Getting it off without removing the plastic panels was fairly easy, but getting it on was not.
I did end up slightly damaging part of the roof as I tried to bend it in to place:


But apart from that, there's not really any other damage.

The only noticeable area where the liner doesn't fit quite right because of the foam underneath is around the main interior light, where there is some noticeable stretching:


I did notice quite a big difference after doing the roof, but it only seemed to make all the places noise was getting through more noticeable. But overall the car is a lot quieter.


Next to do was the Boot lid.

It was easier to work on from the inside with the boot closed:


The Silent Coat added quite a bit of weight to the boot lid, and made the boot a lot harder to open. Luckily Honda installs a metal weight to the lid so it doesn't fly up too quickly, so I just removed that metal weight and it was basically back to normal again!

Next was the 10mm Closed Cell Foam


And then the foam installed to the plastic cover:



One small little detail that I really noticed and had to fix, was that the parcel shelf rattles when you go over bumpy surfaces, and I never really noticed it before until I made the car quieter, and now it drives me nuts, so I had to fix it!

I applied some silent coat to the areas causing the rattling, and added some closed cell foam to silence any rattling coming from the parcel shelf touching the rear plastic:



Slightly OCD I know, but it really stood out after the car became quieter and now it's rattle free!


Next stage is going to be doing the front inner wheel arches from underneath. Which means removing the front wheels and the wheel arch plastic trim. As I still get a lot of road noise front the front wheel arches. I currently have Bridgestone Turanza ER370's on it, which came from the factory. They are rated at 68db, which seems the lowest rating I can find for tyres for the car, so I don't know if changing them for some Yokohama BluEarth ES32's (which are also rated at 68db) would make any difference to the road noise from the tyres or not.

And I'm going to try and remove the road noise caused by the door seals.

I did notice quite a difference by simply removing the door seals and re fitting them properly with a rubber mallet.
But I saw on another forum someone used some PVC rubber piping and ran it through the standard door seal to create a better seal when the door closes, and they added some extra adhesive rubber door seals to each door to get the gaps the standard ones don't get. So I've ordered some PVC rubber piping and some adhesive door seals and I will take it from there.

So watch the space for those!

smilertoo

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.39l Honda Jazz 2004 Ice Blue - 45mpg max/40mpg normal
Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 08:19:27 PM »
You're going to end up with a lovely quiet Jazz that does 1mpg.

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top