Author Topic: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?  (Read 322 times)

rspaczkowski

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Hey,
We have bought a 17 plate Jazz EX in midnight pearl black for my wife. The car was 12k miles when purchased and was mint. I gave the car to a local Honda dealership for a service and a wash and presented my Mrs with the keys to her new lovely ride. Everybody was happy until we discovered how bad the paint on the Jazz is!
After a month and a half of her driving the Honda to work and back (30 miles a day, on a clean, decent B road), I found the bonnet littered with tiny white stone chip marks.
Before we bought the Jazz, she used to drive my Octavia on the same route every day for three months, and there was never any stone chip damage.
One day after we brought the Honda to an automatic car wash, I had noticed paint scratches on the boot door which were not there before. I had complained to the car wash staff, but they dismissed me, saying that there is no way their car wash could cause the damage. I had my Octavia washed there every week, and there were never any paint issues.

We decided to clean the vehicle ourselves from there on.

So, today I have used a soft car brush plus a low-pressure jet wash to clean the Jazz by hand. I did not use any force nor abrasives: just clean water and Karcher brand car shampoo.
The Jazz's paint now has circle shaped scratch marks all over, and on the offside front column edges, the paint thinned so much I can see the white primer layer. 
I gave the same wash to my Skoda earlier that day, so I went back and examined its paint. It was immaculate.

I feel gutted, our almost new 17 plate Honda paint job looks worse than my 06 plate Octavia with over 120k miles on the clock.

I feel like Honda factory painted this car with kids crayons. I owned a few cars in my life, but the Jazz is the first one where I can wash off the paint! :(

Has anyone had this issue here? The car is still on warranty, is there a point asking my local dealership for a warranty re-spray?


« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 01:39:29 AM by rspaczkowski »

Jocko

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 09:05:28 AM »
Honda paint has a reputation for being "soft", but your's sounds extreme. If I do not spot and remove bird droppings from my 2006 they damage the paintwork. Stone chips on the bonnet are normally the result of following too close behind other vehicles and soft paint exacerbates the result. When you handwash do you use the two bucket method? Swirls on the paintwork are a sign of fine grit in the water or an extremely course sponge. I use a microfibre mitt.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Deluxe-Microfiber-Wash-Mitt/dp/B07145FF4Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1549789390&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=microfibre+mitt&psc=1

mikebore

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 09:46:47 AM »
I can well understand you are gutted :(

I have a bit of trouble trouble understanding "circle shaped scratch marks". That doesn't sound like exposure to road chippings which is what the the bonnet sounded like.

If the car was pristine when you bought it and for six weeks after, the problem must have been a very unusual event (or events) during your ownership. However it might be that defective paintwork from new means that your car was not able to tolerate this event as it should have been.

I have not heard that Honda paintwork is known for being soft (and have not noticed it on the three jazzes we have owned....we haven't had Jocko's bird poo problem) but if that was the cause of your problem then these forums would be full of paintwork discussions.

I would definitely take it back to Honda and suggest that the paintwork is not withstanding stone chips as it should do.

Last thought...who did you buy this from? Was it a reputable (Honda?) dealer, or somewhere a bit dodgy? Might they have used some second hand car sales trick to conceal the damage when you bought it, and which has worn off in the six weeks?  Have you taken it back to the place you bought it?

EDIT. Did the 12k Honda service include a full inspection....they usually do....did that mention any bodywork issues?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:05:20 AM by mikebore »

Downsizer

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 10:02:43 AM »
It doesn't sound right.  I would take pictures and start discussions with the dealer asap.  Do you know anything of the previous history of the car?

culzean

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 10:08:51 AM »
If I do not spot and remove bird droppings from my 2006 they damage the paintwork. Stone chips on the bonnet are normally the result of following too close behind other vehicles and soft paint exacerbates the result.

I always remove bird droppings as soon as I see them, either with a 'wet wipe' or washing up liquid and water and paper tissue ( i don't otherwise clean the cars ).  I never follow other vehicles too closely - normally at least 50 metres back in daylight,  and at night i stay further back ( not for the health of my paintwork but to keep headlights out of their mirrors - I just wish everyone would do it ). 

I have had at least 2 windscreens ruined by stones from oncoming cars though,  don't know how that works but after the car had passed there was a very loud crack from windscreen ( made my ears ring) and  on inspection there was a crater in the screen --

The propensity to get stone chips can depend on shape of bonnet,  if it is short and slopes steeply like Jazz it will get more chips than a flatter bonnet.  I can remember when front of cars used to get peppered with chips and it was a full time job to keep them from going rusty, but the plastic bumper covers most of the front now and that does not rust.  You can blame the 'pedestrian friendly' bonnet on the Jazz,  its low front and slope means that pedestrians get 'scooped up' instead of knocked over and then run over ( compare it with the flat front of a 4x4 German staff car).

I don't know any paint that will resist a sharp piece of road granite hitting it at a combined speed of 100mph+ ( your speed plus the speed it flew off the wheel of vehicle in front),  but with modern electro-zinc plated panels at least the rust does not spread under paint like it used to and bubble up. 

https://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/car-care-blog/detailing/paint/

http://www.carwashmag.com/home/article/german-paint-finishes-how-are-they-different-and-is-it-important/50ccc58b06e22de4793695e9e28efd60.html
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 11:11:58 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 10:12:12 AM »
I've owned three Jazz (Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 (65 plate)) and haven't noticed any issues. To be fair I don't wash my cars all that often (the Mk3 hasn't been washed now for over a year, lol). Black is particularly bad at showing defects though - it's the worst colour for that.

"And by going back, I mean to black. Ask anyone who has ever owned, or currently owns a black car and they will tell you of the frustration a black car represents. So for most people, I recommend you stay away from black despite what your emotions are screaming at you the next time you happen to see a very shiny black car.

* Among the most dramatic colors visually when detailed correctly.
* The hottest color; literally. Not only will the paint heat up to the temperature of the sun, but will cause the interior to heat up proportionately along with it.
* Black shows every nuance of paint flaws.
* Black car paint is the hardest color to keep clean.
* Will show dust from the moment you stop cleaning, until the moment you start cleaning once again!
* Black interiors hide actual dirt the best, but enhance the superficial dirt like dust, debris, and lint.
"

I have had at least 2 windscreens ruined by stones from oncoming cars though,  don't know how that works but after the car had passed there was a very loud crack from windscreen ( made my ears ring) and  on inspection there was a crater in the screen --
I had that on my Mk1 Sport, albeit the bonnet. There was an almighty 'crack' and when I checked a crater near the top of the bonnet about 3mm across.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:16:37 AM by andruec »

John Ratsey

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 10:15:03 AM »
I found the Jazz bonnet to be vulnerable to stone chips. The relatively low nose means that stones thrown up by other vehicles are more likely to hit the bonnet rather than the front grille. I remember being particularly annoyed by an oncoming van which drove through a pile of fine gravel just as I was approaching as I had no option but drive through a cloud of small stones. I also remember that my Mk 3 Jazz seemed to have even thinner paint than the Mk 2. Perhaps Honda's philosophy is that thinner paint = less weight = better mpg. My antidote is to protect the paint with a couple of layers of hard wax polish but maybe this is one reason for the popularity of silver / grey colours - the primer is less obvious when the paint chips off.

There always seems to be a lot more fine debris on the roads during the winter so the risk of driving into stones thrown up by other vehicles is increased. Do some councils still put grit in with the salt to give some extra grip? Keeping a decent distance behind anything in front helps reduce the risk of damage but it's difficult to protect against debris sent flying by either oncoming or overtaking vehicles.

mikebore

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 12:04:30 PM »
The OP's problem is not normal stone chips or bird poo. He describes the current state as  "now has circle shaped scratch marks all over, and on the offside front column edges, the paint thinned so much I can see the white primer layer."

That is why I suggested this car has a very unusual event in its history. If it happened before he bought it, the person selling did a very good job covering it up temporarily. If it happened after he bought it then maybe he has a car with defective paintwork and the basis for a claim against warranty.

mikebore

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Re: Paint issues on 17 plate Jazz, is anyone having a similar experience?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 12:15:43 PM »
It almost sounds like the car has had excessive use of T-Cut at some point in its life, this could explain the circular scratch marks and the paint through to the primer on the pillars.

Perhaps this was necessary after some kind of chemical rain (from a factory).

I suspect the seller was able to conceal this temporarily.

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