Author Topic: WTO rules?  (Read 12611 times)

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #585 on: March 15, 2019, 07:55:37 AM »
Thank you for educating us ::).  That does in fact refer to WW1.  Further education is available at https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/magazine/a-brief-history-of-chemical-war, although I can't imagine that chemical warfare will be used during Brexit negotiations.

When I was an apprentice is used to work with a couple of old guys who had eyes and lungs permanently and badly damaged by German Chlorine gas in WW1 and they had comrades who were killed by it, real nasty stuff..

'every day is a schoolday'..
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 07:57:09 AM by culzean »
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culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #586 on: March 15, 2019, 08:01:08 AM »
I've had a question on my mind for sometime.

Do people who complain about "chlorinated chicken" (i.e. chlorine washed chicken) drink chlorinated water?
I certainly don’t drink chlorinated water. I suffered with irritable bowel syndrome for many years until I finally tracked it down to tap water. Specifically Yorkshire Water tap water. An ex colleague of mine who works there now tells my Yorkshire Water add chlorine to bleach out the peaty colour of their water. Since excluding tap water from my diet, I have been very healthy. I should say I drink a lot of water every day.

So when are EU going to ban chlorinated water ? and while they are at it ban sodium flouride as well because it is a poison and by the look of latest tooth decay figures for people in UK has done little of nothing for their teeth, but may well have done bad things to their bones..

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/154164.php
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 08:05:20 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

sparky Paul

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #587 on: March 15, 2019, 08:13:42 AM »
When I was an apprentice is used to work with a couple of old guys who had eyes and lungs permanently and badly damaged by German Chlorine gas in WW1 and they had comrades who were killed by it, real nasty stuff..

Neat gas is certainly is very nasty stuff, I used to work with it on a daily basis, and had quite a few close encounters.

Chlorine compounds are being increasingly used because they are more stable and safer to handle by personnel with limited training. I had to be trained in handling, and in using BA, which had to be donned regularly when locating and fixing leaks, after which a change of clothing was also required. You got used to the smell in low concentrations, but it has a cumulative effect even at low levels when it's oozing out of your clothing afterwards.

It's also extremely corrosive. Lead washers are used as seals in pipework couplings, because it was the only thing that doesn't get eaten away too quickly. Nasty.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 08:15:43 AM by sparky Paul »

richardfrost

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #588 on: March 15, 2019, 01:53:03 PM »
The cheapest form of chlorine is chlorine gas ( same stuff Germany used on western front in WW2 )
Have you got evidence for this? First I have heard of gas being used in combat in WW2.

A reminder for those who are familiar. An education for those who are not.

Dulce et Decorum Est
BY WILFRED OWEN
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Fully aware pf what went on in WW1. Culzean mentioned WW2. That is what I was querying.

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #589 on: March 15, 2019, 01:54:51 PM »
Fully aware pf what went on in WW1. Culzean mentioned WW2. That is what I was querying.

just a typo, moving on.....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #590 on: March 15, 2019, 04:02:41 PM »

If you read the wikipedia article fully Chorine Dioxide is tightly controlled in USA because it forms a compound called chlorite and in American tapwater is limited to 1ppm,  and you are OK with EU using it on your food ?

here Is extract...

'The use of chlorine dioxide in water treatment leads to the formation of the by-product chlorite, which is currently limited to a maximum of 1 ppm in drinking water in the USA.[14]:4–33 This EPA standard limits the use of chlorine dioxide in the USA to relatively high-quality water[why?], or water that is to be treated with iron-based coagulants (iron can reduce chlorite to chloride)'.

'Chlorine dioxide is toxic, hence limits on exposure to it are needed to ensure its safe use. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has set a maximum level of 0.8 mg/L for chlorine dioxide in drinking water.[35] The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), an agency of the United States Department of Labor, has set an 8-hour permissible exposure limit of 0.1 ppm in air (0.3 mg/m3) for people working with chlorine dioxide'

The whole thing about EU subsidies is that the large landowners in UK ARE being paid just because they have land and that is why so much of the 'upper class' is miffed at leaving, including many MP#s and Lords, they stand to lose £100's of thousands a year ( https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/27/revealed-the-mps-and-peers-receiving-millions-in-eu-farm-subsidies-cap ) , an awful lot of working farmers ( not the same as a lot of awful farmers  :o ) as opposed to Chelsea & Kensington farmers driving Chelsea tractors ) voted to leave EU, as did 95% of fishermen ( don't know how many anglers voted leave).

See my previous post linking to
https://www.beuc.eu/blog/what-is-wrong-with-chlorinated-chicken/
The EU system for food production uses a minimimum of chemical washing. In the case of poultry, hygiene stipulations at farm level include the use of dedicated clothing and footwear by farm workers to avoid bringing bacteria into poultry houses. This must be complemented with proper transportation conditions as well as hygienic slaughtering and processing practices.
 In the US, instead of preventing that chickens get infected with pathogens during all stages of rearing and slaughter, the poultry industry has resorted to chemicals to eliminate bacteria at the end of the meat production chain. In other words, chemical washes aim to make up for inadequate hygiene on farms and abattoirs.


Re Landowners.   I would imagine most of the wealthy landowners voted to leave the EU. (James Dyson reportedly owns more land in England than the Queen) and I would imagine that they will be more than compensated for the loss of their EU subsidies when they not we take back control of our laws.

https://whoownsengland.org/2017/09/19/why-is-james-dyson-hoovering-up-land/

It's the small farmers, (the ones who get their hands dirty) that I'm sorry for.
Some will be forced to sell up due to not being able to compete with cheap imported food or not being able to export their produce. The land will no doubt be hoovered up by the big boys at bargain basement prices.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/24/no-deal-horrific-welsh-farmers-brexit-meat-eu-countries

Likewise I would not imagine that the fishermen will be able to do any better than they do at present.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-would-brexit-really-mean-for-the-uks-fishing-industry/

sparky Paul

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #591 on: March 15, 2019, 08:43:32 PM »
Anybody watching this thing on Channel 4 about chlorine washed chicken?

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #592 on: March 15, 2019, 08:46:04 PM »
Anybody watching this thing on Channel 4 about chlorine washed chicken?
Yeah me.
My turn to say add on an hour and watch on Ch4+1
Item very short so approx 9:40 - 9:50
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 09:46:20 PM by JimSh »

sparky Paul

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #593 on: March 15, 2019, 08:58:12 PM »

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #594 on: March 15, 2019, 09:49:45 PM »
I was always a bit concerned about these adverts which said "kills 99% of all household germs".
It doesn't take long for the 1% to multiply.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 09:54:01 PM by JimSh »

Jocko

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #595 on: March 15, 2019, 10:04:12 PM »
Apologies for sliding off topic. Read about why the say "Kills 99.9% of all germs". They believe they kill 100% of all germs but they cannot prove it, so to avoid future torts, they say 99.9%!

sparky Paul

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #596 on: March 15, 2019, 10:40:05 PM »
I was always a bit concerned about these adverts which said "kills 99% of all household germs".
It doesn't take long for the 1% to multiply.

Not when they're given a free run.

Canneries have a similar issue with thermophiles surviving heat treatment in the cooking vessels (retorts). Steam at 250°F sterilises most stuff, but there is a risk of these heat resistant bacteria getting hold as soon as any competition is removed.

Apologies for sliding off topic.

...in true ClubJazz style.  ;D

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #597 on: March 16, 2019, 09:59:46 AM »

And what is wrong with more investment in our health care systems?

Or should people die because the money to save them comes from private individuals as shareholders rather than as tax payers?

Here's an article about what we might be letting ourselves in for:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47491964?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&fbclid=IwAR31tsKbC4q3fvrT3JZK0k1pMa3APp7-Eotvfa8gpDyUWUtarSzEhjUuxYo

For  "insulin" substitute "your prescribed drugs."
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:15:45 AM by JimSh »

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #598 on: March 16, 2019, 10:10:02 AM »
Anybody watching this thing on Channel 4 about chlorine washed chicken?
Yeah me.
My turn to say add on an hour and watch

The Southampton University study is an eye opener.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/26/chicken-health-fear-chlorine-washing-fails-bacteria-tests-brexit-salmonella-listeria

https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2018/04/foodborne-illness-study.page

Does this mean that our chlorine treated public water supply is no longer safe either ? I know water companies use intense UV light to kill bugs at pumping stations but once the water has left and is in the mains pipes the chlorine takes over.

If anyone has ever been in an African or Asian market and seen the chickens hanging up ( and other meat including fish, fruit bats and monkey) crawling with flies and cockroaches then you have to wonder why there are still people alive in those countries.  I actually think that western homes that are too clean have ruined our immune system and it can no longer handle these everyday pathogens... plus fast travel by planes has meant that germs can travel around the world in hours,  I do not know what happened to the necessary quarantine system but now people can be China and travel to USA or Europe same day with no checks on their health..
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #599 on: March 16, 2019, 10:12:51 AM »

And what is wrong with more investment in our health care systems?

Or should people die because the money to save them comes from private individuals as shareholders rather than as tax payers?

Here's an article about what we might be letting ourselves in for:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47491964?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&fbclid=IwAR31tsKbC4q3fvrT3JZK0k1pMa3APp7-Eotvfa8gpDyUWUtarSzEhjUuxYo

For  "insulin" substitute your prescribed drugs.

Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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