Author Topic: WTO rules?  (Read 23844 times)

Barky

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #255 on: February 11, 2019, 03:54:19 PM »
The original document here makes for scary reading. Though the site is in Polish the document is in English.

And it's all Chinese whispers. ::)

No Chinese whispers on that document,  it is a clear statement of intent to centralise even more power with an un-elected poiltburo.

In fact it is the next step towards the EU federal superstate that remain voters are in denial about.
what? un-elected poiltburo? The EU officials/MEPs & Council of Europe members (different organisation) are ALL elected

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #256 on: February 11, 2019, 05:42:35 PM »
what? un-elected poiltburo? The EU officials/MEPs & Council of Europe members (different organisation) are ALL elected

MEPs have no real power and are just window dressing, they can only 'vote' on stuff proposed by commission, and are not allowed to put forward bills like our MPs are.  The big boys like J Claude Junket and Martin Selmayr are appointed by some arcane process.  The EU civil servants who dream up all the stuff for commissioners are employees, and there are a huge number of them.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:47:18 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

zzaj

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #257 on: February 11, 2019, 08:08:02 PM »
The EU civil servants who dream up all the stuff for commissioners are employees, and there are a huge number of them.

And none of them pay any tax and have pensions to absolutely dream of.

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #258 on: February 12, 2019, 12:53:55 PM »
http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/7089/full

Interesting article comparing project fear 2016 with the 1975 version.  It is notable that after UK joined the EEC in 1973 our exports to Europe fell, and our economic growth was strangled for the next 10 years, then Thatcher came along with her new ideas and supercharged the economy ( but this was nothing to do with EU MEmbership ).  We still run a mahoosive deficit between exports to and imports from EU, they have never really liked us and our free trade and democracy ideas,  but they like our contributions to their budget - we will leave a brexit shaped hole in their spending ambition after March this year.


Also this about uncontrolled immigration and open borders.

http://standpointmag.co.uk/features-september-2018-rw-johnson-the-inevitability-of-fortress-europe-migration
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 01:11:46 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #259 on: February 13, 2019, 09:49:38 AM »
The original document here makes for scary reading. Though the site is in Polish the document is in English.

And it's all Chinese whispers. ::)

No Chinese whispers on that document,  it is a clear statement of intent to centralise even more power with an un-elected poiltburo.

In fact it is the next step towards the EU federal superstate that remain voters are in denial about.


Leaked Letter in Polish Paper ?????

Meanwhile, here's Monbiot on something much more important :-

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/13/dark-money-hard-brexit-targeted-ads-facebook

and
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/18/dark-money-democracy-political-crisis-institute-economic-affairs
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 09:59:42 AM by JimSh »

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #260 on: February 13, 2019, 03:08:04 PM »
See also Monbiot's reply to criticism of his first article.


"Some people are suggesting I've highlighted these abuses because I'm desperate to prevent Brexit from occuring. It's true that Brexit worries me, but I'm much more concerned about what's happening to democracy. This is why my article is highly critical not only of the anonymity of Britain's Future, but also of the failure by both People's Vote and Best for Britain to reveal all their major funders. Their lack of transparency on this issue is disgraceful, and seriously undermines the credibility of their campaigns.

I am a Eurosceptic Remainer. I voted remain, but for me it was a finely balanced decision. There is plenty wrong with the EU. I hate the Common Agricultural Policy, the EC's disgraceful attempt to strike the TTIP trade deal against the wishes of so many citizens, the shocking levels of corporate lobbying. To me, being in the EU is like democracy, diplomacy and old age: the best that can be said for it is that it's better than the alternative. I think leaving the EU will do us great harm, and provide opportunities for the worst forms of disaster capitalism, especially with this grisly crew in charge, but at the same time I understand the Leave case, and sympathise with it.

But bigger even than Brexit is the subversion of democracy by big money - particularly hidden money - not just in the EU Referendum, but throughout the political cycle. If, like me, you want to take back control, you don't want your life to be governed by remote and faceless elites, and you want popular and parliamentary sovereignty to count for something, you should be equally concerned about it, whether you voted Remain or Leave."

Jocko

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #261 on: February 13, 2019, 05:06:16 PM »
A German think tank says German industry is already suffering because of Brexit, and calls for concessions.
"The EU should, as a quick fix at least, offer to remove both the backstop and the withdrawal agreement's current time limit on the mobility of goods and capital so that the provisional agreement would keep the EU and the UK in a joint customs territory association even after 2020 without making a difference between Northern Ireland and the UK. That would be key,"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47223787

sparky Paul

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #262 on: February 13, 2019, 05:24:47 PM »
"...keep the EU and the UK in a joint customs territory association even after 2020..,"

...only the ERG don't want that at any costs, do they?

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #263 on: February 13, 2019, 05:46:53 PM »
A German think tank says German industry is already suffering because of Brexit, and calls for concessions.
"The EU should, as a quick fix at least, offer to remove both the backstop and the withdrawal agreement's current time limit on the mobility of goods and capital so that the provisional agreement would keep the EU and the UK in a joint customs territory association even after 2020 without making a difference between Northern Ireland and the UK. That would be key,"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47223787

I have said many times that when the EUropolitical fanatics have had their say about 'protecting the four pillars etc.' that the business community will step in and bang their heads together.  So far the EU has not negotiated with business in mind,  just their precious political project,  they need to now get real and look at the bigger picture - the Euro is already in big trouble ( all of its own making ) with young people in southern Europe consigned to unemployment because the unbalancing effect the Euro has had on the different economies in the Eurozone.  There is no 'one size fits all' solution available for the vastly differing economies tied together by Euro ( or by the whole outdated 1950's  EU project for that matter).

The whole of the Eurozone is already on slippery slope to depression, are Drunckers and Barmier really willing to a full scale depression for the sake of their political fanaticism ?
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #264 on: February 13, 2019, 05:50:03 PM »
...only the ERG don't want that at any costs, do they?
I know, but that is a stop gap to get us out and allow further negotiation without a backstop. "as a quick fix at least,"

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #265 on: February 13, 2019, 06:46:22 PM »
A German think tank says German industry is already suffering because of Brexit, and calls for concessions.
"The EU should, as a quick fix at least, offer to remove both the backstop and the withdrawal agreement's current time limit on the mobility of goods and capital so that the provisional agreement would keep the EU and the UK in a joint customs territory association even after 2020 without making a difference between Northern Ireland and the UK. That would be key,"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47223787

Do German think tanks have any more credibility than UK ones?

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #266 on: February 13, 2019, 06:54:30 PM »
A German think tank says German industry is already suffering because of Brexit, and calls for concessions.
"The EU should, as a quick fix at least, offer to remove both the backstop and the withdrawal agreement's current time limit on the mobility of goods and capital so that the provisional agreement would keep the EU and the UK in a joint customs territory association even after 2020 without making a difference between Northern Ireland and the UK. That would be key,"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47223787


I have said many times that when the EUropolitical fanatics have had their say about 'protecting the four pillars etc.' that the business community will step in and bang their heads together.  So far the EU has not negotiated with business in mind,  just their precious political project,  they need to now get real and look at the bigger picture - the Euro is already in big trouble ( all of its own making ) with young people in southern Europe consigned to unemployment because the unbalancing effect the Euro has had on the different economies in the Eurozone.  There is no 'one size fits all' solution available for the vastly differing economies tied together by Euro ( or by the whole outdated 1950's  EU project for that matter).

The whole of the Eurozone is already on slippery slope to depression, are Drunckers and Barmier really willing to a full scale depression for the sake of their political fanaticism ?

Your main objective would appear to be to damage the EU as much as possible rather than to benefit the UK.
A hard Brexit will hurt the EU but will hurt the UK much worse. Why make everybody suffer?
The EU will not back down over its four freedoms.
Perhaps you could explain why the collapse of the EU would benefit the UK?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:57:03 PM by JimSh »

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #267 on: February 13, 2019, 07:01:01 PM »
...only the ERG don't want that at any costs, do they?
I know, but that is a stop gap to get us out and allow further negotiation without a backstop. "as a quick fix at least,"

The ERG and its backers want to avoid the clampdown on tax evasion which the EU is bringing in and so want to press for a quick hard Brexit.

Jocko

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #268 on: February 14, 2019, 08:13:34 AM »
I see Germany narrowly avoided going into recession, with zero growth in the last quarter. If it is anything like the UK government's figures they were probably well massaged to avoid a negative number.

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #269 on: February 14, 2019, 09:48:25 AM »
Your main objective would appear to be to damage the EU as much as possible rather than to benefit the UK.
A hard Brexit will hurt the EU but will hurt the UK much worse. Why make everybody suffer?
The EU will not back down over its four freedoms.
Perhaps you could explain why the collapse of the EU would benefit the UK?

I am not saying damage the EU, ( it can do that very well on its own) - but the EU sells much more to UK ( 95billion more in goods,  but we have a surplus of 28billion in services - so overall deficit 67billion in 2017) The LCH handle vast majority of Euro transactions ( something like Euro 900 billion per day),  which involves standing surety for any defaults by buyer or sellers in contracts - which needs a massive amount of financial muscle that the City of London has but nowhere in the EU has because their financial system is not fit for purpose - the costs to EU business would be far greater if the EU tried to take over the clearing,  you would have expected Frankfurt and Paris to have attracted service businesses from UK by now ( they have been trying hard enough ) but it just ain't happening .

The Euro clearing is why the EU has drafted emergency powers to keep access to UK financial system ( services ) in event of no-deal.

The EU think they are the only game in town, but they are rapidly shrinking both in world trade and influence - they need a reality check and the EU business leaders will give them one - as I said they will bang together the heads of Drunckers, Barmier and Verhofstagger  when push comes to shove,  telling them to forget the politics because they need the business.

If it had not been for sore-loser remain chatter and pulling in the opposite direction we would have had a deal months ago,  but the opposition within the UK emboldened the EU that if they cooked up the worst possible deal they could persuade the UK to not leave. But despite mother Theresa being a remainer who still wants to stay in EU she has not found it so easy because she has one eye on the ballot box and knows that if she does get a deal she will attract millions of voters who are totally fed up with labour party disarray and their MPs trying to frustrate Brexit, despite 70% of labour constituencies voting leave.  The labour party is being pushed by the members ( who have been well and truly infiltrated by remainers) to frustrate Brexit but in the process many true labour supporters are leaving the party ( about 150,000 at last count ) - labour leaders need to realise the difference between party members and voters, a few hundred thousand members do not have enough election votes to make any difference compared to the millions of voters who are being driven away..
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:56:06 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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