Author Topic: WTO rules?  (Read 6578 times)

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #225 on: February 06, 2019, 09:35:45 PM »
John Crace is usually a sketch writer but things aren't really funny any more.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/06/donald-tusks-special-place-in-hell-looks-like-where-we-are-right-now

Barky

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #226 on: February 06, 2019, 10:07:45 PM »
UK is a democracy and EU commissars do not understand democracy, certainly not at a nation state level, such things are verboten in the EU and not discussed much.  The EU have a track record of ignoring national referendums.  The pressure is telling on Tusk, he just wishes the whole thing would go away,  but it won't !! Watch this space.

Trimble is gonna make things a whole lot worse for EU when he exposes in court their cynical plan to illegally use the Belfast GF agreement to tie UK to EU in perpetuity...

Looks like Tusk and EU have finally got the message that there will be no second referendum with remain as an option because many labour MPs have realised they will not be forgiven by voters for frustrating brexit.  The Labour party membership has been infiltrated by remainers, but party members are different to voters, the members can say what they like,  but it is voters that count.
UK a democracy? Not really true - brexit is a takeover of what was left of democracy in UK concentrating power even further in the elite untouchable few - MPs are just managers - it's UK in trouble, NOT the EU

Barky

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #227 on: February 06, 2019, 10:25:11 PM »
Would be utterly insane for Scotland to remain in a post brexit UK, all the supposed benefits of being in UK would be gone & Scotland would end up getting same trade deal with remainder of UK that France, Germany & rest of EU would get
Take it you voted Remain. I am am ardent Leaver.
How did you guess? Been Pro-EU & anti-westminster for a long, long time ever since I realised how rotten to core westminster is ... have seen nothing in UK gov handling of brexit that inspires any hope they have slightest clue what they are doing. UK side has wrongly assumed they had leverage & wrongly suggested WTO is the answer. Underlying problem is internal UK incompetence over decades which instead of being dealt with has been blamed on forces outside UK, EEC/EU in recent decades ... got to stage now where UK break up could be imminent

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #228 on: February 07, 2019, 04:55:03 PM »
Would be utterly insane for Scotland to remain in a post brexit UK, all the supposed benefits of being in UK would be gone & Scotland would end up getting same trade deal with remainder of UK that France, Germany & rest of EU would get
Take it you voted Remain. I am am ardent Leaver.
How did you guess? Been Pro-EU & anti-westminster for a long, long time ever since I realised how rotten to core westminster is ... have seen nothing in UK gov handling of brexit that inspires any hope they have slightest clue what they are doing. UK side has wrongly assumed they had leverage & wrongly suggested WTO is the answer. Underlying problem is internal UK incompetence over decades which instead of being dealt with has been blamed on forces outside UK, EEC/EU in recent decades ... got to stage now where UK break up could be imminent

Here is the story of how the EU CAP has decimated farmland, caused widespread loss of trees ( and therefore massive runoff and widespread flooding ), paid farmers and landowners to grub up hedges then once the damage was done it paid farmers and landowners to replant hedges.   What a total mess the 50 billion Euro CAP is,  no wonder landowners ( but not farmers) want to stay in EU,  it now pays them to take land out of production....  What a load of idiots those EU rule makers are.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/nov/26/europe-bung-landowners-farm-subsidies
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #229 on: February 07, 2019, 07:49:55 PM »

Here is the story of how the EU CAP has decimated farmland, caused widespread loss of trees ( and therefore massive runoff and widespread flooding ), paid farmers and landowners to grub up hedges then once the damage was done it paid farmers and landowners to replant hedges.   What a total mess the 50 billion Euro CAP is,  no wonder landowners ( but not farmers) want to stay in EU,  it now pays them to take land out of production....  What a load of idiots those EU rule makers are.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/nov/26/europe-bung-landowners-farm-subsidies

Monbiot talks a lot of sense on the environment. However I notice that your link leads to an article in 2012.
 The EU policy on farming may be far from perfect but I still think it would be preferable to one devised by Gove and co. which would no doubt be skewed even further towards the benefit of wealthy landowners.
Also the economics of Patrick Minford which is the one always quoted by the Brexiteers depends on almost wiping out manufacturing and farming which, when you think about it , isn't a great idea for an isolated island nation.

Barky

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #230 on: February 07, 2019, 08:05:26 PM »

Here is the story of how the EU CAP has decimated farmland, caused widespread loss of trees ( and therefore massive runoff and widespread flooding ), paid farmers and landowners to grub up hedges then once the damage was done it paid farmers and landowners to replant hedges.   What a total mess the 50 billion Euro CAP is,  no wonder landowners ( but not farmers) want to stay in EU,  it now pays them to take land out of production....  What a load of idiots those EU rule makers are.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/nov/26/europe-bung-landowners-farm-subsidies

Monbiot talks a lot of sense on the environment. However I notice that your link leads to an article in 2012.
 The EU policy on farming may be far from perfect but I still think it would be preferable to one devised by Gove and co. which would no doubt be skewed even further towards the benefit of wealthy landowners.
Also the economics of Patrick Minford which is the one always quoted by the Brexiteers depends on almost wiping out manufacturing and farming which, when you think about it , isn't a great idea for an isolated island nation.
Yes, way things are going a huge % of farming in UK is going to stop - around 40%

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #231 on: February 07, 2019, 08:27:06 PM »

Monbiot talks a lot of sense on the environment. However I notice that your link leads to an article in 2012.
 

The CAP has been trashing the environment since 1957, so a few years won't make anything better.

The CAP is horrendously expensive and wasteful, but it also keeps food prices high - a lose-lose situation.  French farmers have been the biggest winners from CAP, the farms are kept in the family and regularly sub-divided which brings even more people into the CAP gravy train....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #232 on: February 08, 2019, 08:16:06 AM »

Monbiot talks a lot of sense on the environment. However I notice that your link leads to an article in 2012.
 

The CAP has been trashing the environment since 1957, so a few years won't make anything better.

The CAP is horrendously expensive and wasteful, but it also keeps food prices high - a lose-lose situation.  French farmers have been the biggest winners from CAP, the farms are kept in the family and regularly sub-divided which brings even more people into the CAP gravy train....

No, but it's before 2016.
Here is Monbiot's take on a no deal Brexit --
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/07/disaster-capitalists-no-deal-brexit-environment

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #233 on: February 08, 2019, 09:48:10 AM »

No, but it's before 2016.


Well anyone reading that before the 2016 referendum would have been given a very good reason to vote leave,  so what has changed except a bit of tinkering around the edges so as not to upset the French farmers ? Bit like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic if you ask me..

https://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/sites/agriculture/files/policy-perspectives/policy-briefs/05_en.pdf

https://iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #234 on: February 08, 2019, 11:26:48 AM »
One thing I will say on Brexit  which I hope we can all agree on:

The Irish position (that is the country of Ireland - not NI) - is likely to be self defeating. To insist on a LEGAL agreement which prevents a Hard Border  and have that insistence lead to a Hard Brexit - which WILL mean a Hard Border - seems irrational to me..


sparky Paul

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #235 on: February 08, 2019, 12:30:45 PM »
https://iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble

Not the IEA, please. From wikipedia:

"The Institute of Economic Affairs is a non-profit, right-wing libertarian think tank based in Westminster, London, United Kingdom. Founded by businessman and battery farming pioneer Antony Fisher in 1955, it promotes free market economics."

If, as they seem to suggest, farmers receive 28% of their income in subsidies, and farm gate prices are 17% higher than they need to be, how come many British pastoral farmers are already saying they're on the verge of going out of business?

I was speaking to someone the other day who has come over from the US, they can't get over how cheap food is here.

Jocko

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #236 on: February 08, 2019, 02:16:46 PM »
I was speaking to someone the other day who has come over from the US, they can't get over how cheap food is here.
I have not been to the US since 9-11, but when I was working in the States they were paying in $ what we paid in for their food.
And their wages were (on average), 2.5 times what a similar worker was paid here in the UK

sparky Paul

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #237 on: February 08, 2019, 04:17:08 PM »
I was speaking to someone the other day who has come over from the US, they can't get over how cheap food is here.
I have not been to the US since 9-11, but when I was working in the States they were paying in $ what we paid in for their food.
And their wages were (on average), 2.5 times what a similar worker was paid here in the UK

It was a friend's brother in law, I couldn't tell you where they live, whether it's town or country. He said the supermarkets here are cheap, I was surprised too - I always thought food was cheap in the US.

This is interesting

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp

The UK appears to be at the lower end of the western world for grocery prices. If you order by grocery cost index on the linky above, US is currently the 11th most expensive (67.44) and the UK is the 30th most expensive (51.85). That's a significant difference, putting US groceries 30% more expensive than the UK in 2019.

Switzerland is a scary 120.81 on the index, Norway 92.67 - both in Europe, but outside the EU and the CAP.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 01:19:18 PM by sparky Paul »

culzean

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #238 on: February 09, 2019, 04:42:44 PM »
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brexit-no-deal-medicine-shortage-stockpile-nhs-health-netherlands-a8769796.html

Stockpiling works both ways, lots of medicines and other stuff Europe gets from UK.

This is about the time where EU business people will bang the heads together of zealots like Barnier, Vehofstadt and Juncker and tell them to stop playing politics and negotiate for business.. They could always threaten to take Junckers booze allowance away and make him pay for his own.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Barky

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Re: WTO rules?
« Reply #239 on: February 09, 2019, 05:19:23 PM »
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brexit-no-deal-medicine-shortage-stockpile-nhs-health-netherlands-a8769796.html

Stockpiling works both ways, lots of medicines and other stuff Europe gets from UK.

This is about the time where EU business people will bang the heads together of zealots like Barnier, Vehofstadt and Juncker and tell them to stop playing politics and negotiate for business.. They could always threaten to take Junckers booze allowance away and make him pay for his own.
It's NOT Barnier, Vehofstadt and Juncker that are playing politics, & playing it very poorly, It's the clueless Theresa May etc

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