Author Topic: Upgrading Honda  (Read 676 times)

smilertoo

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Upgrading Honda
« on: November 10, 2018, 08:16:22 PM »
Hi,

I currently drive a 2004 honda jazz that does about 40mpg (no AC etc.), I'm thinking of upgrading for better comfort and speed without reducing MPG. I'm thinking between a mk2 honda jazz or a Honda Civic. Should i expect a 1.4l 2010 jazz to improve on 40mpg whilst being a better drive or just bite the bullet and move to a Civic.

Thanks

culzean

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 08:42:00 PM »
Hi,

I currently drive a 2004 honda jazz that does about 40mpg (no AC etc.), I'm thinking of upgrading for better comfort and speed without reducing MPG. I'm thinking between a mk2 honda jazz or a Honda Civic. Should i expect a 1.4l 2010 jazz to improve on 40mpg whilst being a better drive or just bite the bullet and move to a Civic.

Thanks

If you are only getting 40mpg from a MK1 I doubt you will do much better from a MK2 ( Jocko drives a MK1 and is famous for his good MPG) - added to which you will get the IVTEC which is pretty gutless below 2500 / 3000 revs.   Definitely you will get less MPG from Civic than Jazz.   If you are intent on changing have as long test drive as possible in a MK2 before you change,  my wife ( and myself) think the best Jazz would be a i-DSi ( MK1 ) engine in a MK2 body - the i-DSi is much more pleasant an engine to drive in urban areas ( which is probably 90% of the time most people drive) and MK1 and MK2 pull the same revs at 70 on the motorway.  The extra 'performance' of the VTEC is out of the normal rev range most people use, the I-dsi engine is much more tractable in normal driving, like a small diesel.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 08:49:45 PM »
In addition to the mpg discussion in this forum https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7489.0, Honest John'r RealMPG website https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/ is a valuable resource. A Mk 2 Jazz may only give a modest improvement on the Mk 1 but a Civic is unlikely to be better unless you opt for diesel and, in return, you lose your Tardis. If you are only getting 40 mpg then I deduce that you do a significant proportion of short distance and/or stop/start motoring. For this situation a Mk 2 Jazz hybrid (which arrived in 2011) might be a worthwhile investment. There are 24 listed on Honda UK's website https://usedcars.honda.co.uk/en/used-cars/approved-cars/honda/jazz-hybrid?currency=GBP&lat=51.511531829834&lon=-0.1952899992466&manufacturer=21&warrantyProgram=22&model=2139&zip=W1A&radius=805&mkey=46-500009-267954&max=12&view=list&sort=price%3AASC#result-tools-top. But your first might want to read through the recent discussion here https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=181.0 as you might get some tips for improving your mpg.

bill ericay

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2018, 10:15:56 PM »
 I managed to average 53mpg over the 3 years I had my mk2 Jazz 1.4.

I have had my 9th Gen Civic !.8 petrol fro 2 1/2 years and averaged 42mpg.( I record miles and gallons and work it out).

However, I don't do short journeys in the car if I can help it- that's what my bike is for, and any town driving burns up a lot more petrol.

The 8th and 9th  generation Civics are a bigger Tardis than the Jazz-- honest !

coffeecup

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2018, 09:05:06 AM »
However, you will be sitting on the floor in the civic !!!

culzean

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2018, 09:53:36 AM »
However, you will be sitting on the floor in the civic !!!

That is correct, the Civic is harder for a lot of older people to get in and out of - I am OK with it but my wife and her family would much rather travel in the Jazz, the seats are higher and view from rear is better.  The Civic is quite dark in the rear seats and the rear door windows are smaller - it does have rear centre armrest though.  Civic also difficult to park without rear parking sensors because of the restricted rear view ( large 'C ' pillars ) - I quite like the rear spoiler as it keeps headlights and over-bright DRL out of your rear mirror.   The cabin / dashboard in the Civic are much better though, nicely placed sensibly sized knobs - not the fiddly little controls you get in Jazz - the headlight lower / raise leveling knob is a nice sizeable rotary one not the tiny sliding one in the Jazz, and the heating / aircon controls  are better placed and easier to use. 

We generally get the same as bill ericay in normal mix of everyday driving - near 50mpg for Jazz and around 40 for Civic ( can get more but has to be on a run or trying for mpg, it is easier to improve mpg in Jazz though).  Just be aware that moving from a MK1 to MK2 Jazz you will definitely notice the VTEC in MK2 has the power to embarrass you if you try to do a rolling second gear pull away on an island or change up too soon due to lack of grunt below 3000revs, you will also need to have better clutch control in the MK2 ( ie be prepared to use more revs to pull away),  I cannot remember ever stalling a MK1,  wish the same could be said about my wifes MK2 ( and she was a lot happier with MK1 engine as well,  although the rest of the car is better (except boot seems smaller) and steering/ suspension / ride is improvement ).

If your present Jazz has drums on the rear be prepared for more problems / work on the Jazz rear discs,  my wifes is on its 3rd set of discs and pads ( pads last longer than discs but always fit new pads with new discs, should not be like that) - never had a problem or replaced anything on our earlier Jazzes with rear drums.  The first two sets of rear discs were genuine Honda,  but for last change I just fitted el cheapo discs and pads from eurocarparts ( Eicher ) mainly because the rear brakes do nothing anyway (except rust away) the eicher ones seem to be staying shinier than the Honda ones though.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 10:06:21 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Hobo

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2018, 02:03:25 PM »
I moved from a MK2 Jazz to a 15 plate Civic and have no regrets, as far as I am concerned there is really no comparison, I find the Civic a far more comfortable, quieter ride and obviously far more power from the 1.8 engine it is more of a drivers car especially on longer journeys, on a recent 800+ round trip I averaged 44 MPG using cruise control when possible, although I had no problems or anything negative to say about the Jazz which I had from new I would not consider going back to a Jazz after owning the Civic.

peteo48

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2018, 02:26:30 PM »
Interesting take Hobo.

The Civic is a more powerful car and the latest ones have lots of toys. I'd probably still have a Civic (I'm low mileage so mpg a minor issue) but I find the Jazz suits my particular range of muscular/skeletal issues much better. I could never get the under thigh support quite right in the Civic - the sit up and beg position of the Jazz suits me much better.

If I needed a bigger car (unlikely at my stage of life) I'd be looking at a crossover type vehicle. I'm done with low down driving positions. HRV or CRV would be where I'd be looking.

smilertoo

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2018, 04:37:09 PM »
Thanks for the info, if the civic is that much lower it's no good.

nigelr

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2018, 05:00:25 PM »
I've had a Honda Jazz Mk1 and Mk2, and there isn't a whole lot of difference in the MPG, driven in the same places in the same way. I've averaged upper 45-53 MPG, depending on the season. As others have said it depends on the sort of journeys you make. I've driven a Civic but I prefer the versatility, visibility and ease of parking with the Jazz.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 08:59:32 PM by nigelr »

Kenneve

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2018, 05:47:12 PM »
I'm now on my third Jazz, having started with a 2010 I-shift, followed by a 2013 CVT and now a 2016 CVT.

Yesterday I did my usual trip from the West Midlands up to North Lincolnshire, a round trip of 250 miles of mostly motorway driving.
Going up there, keeping the speed to 60mph max, the readout showed 68.2mpg and the return was 58.6mpg, which was down to a headwind. Even allowing for the optimistic readout, I guess the average must be around 60mpg, which I am more than happy with.

I guess those that comment about the Ivtec lack of guts at low revs, are mostly driving a manual gearbox car.
With the CVT, the situation does not arise, you simply plant your right foot, the revs rise and you Go!
Certainly for me, I have not found the performance to be lacking in any way.

coffeecup

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2018, 08:14:29 PM »
Yes you plant your foot, but the rev's lag behind along with the pull, mother in law has a cvt, but just not the same instant response as the i-shift on paddles. In auto it's dreadful.

peteo48

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 08:26:11 PM »
Yes you plant your foot, but the rev's lag behind along with the pull, mother in law has a cvt, but just not the same instant response as the i-shift on paddles. In auto it's dreadful.

I think I can agree with that to a point. I do use "S" mode or the paddles if I want to get a shift on. There is lag when you plant your foot.

smilertoo

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 09:44:47 PM »
so despite the mk2 1.4l having more horsepower it will seem slower than my mk1 1.3l iDSI unless i rev it up?

culzean

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Re: Upgrading Honda
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 10:26:52 PM »
so despite the mk2 1.4l having more horsepower it will seem slower than my mk1 1.3l iDSI unless i rev it up?

It is a bit like a diesel and a petrol car, even if the petrol car has more power the diesel will feel ' more powerful' because its grunt is low down the rev range ( and it rapidly runs out of puff over 4000) - the idsi 8 valve engine in MK1 is a bit more 'diesel like' than the VTEC with more pull lower down and runs out of puff about 4500, but IMHO the idsi engine is more suited to the Jazz as mainly an urban or city car.  As I said earlier, you need a decent test drive of a MK2 and concentrate on the engine and see how you like it.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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