Author Topic: 30 mph to become 20 mph?  (Read 431 times)

Jocko

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30 mph to become 20 mph?
« on: September 11, 2018, 08:38:34 PM »
I was shocked today to see that East Lothian council are to order a moratorium on any future speed restriction trials. This is due to pending legislation, in Scotland, that will reduce ALL 30 mph speed limits down to 20 mph.
Mark Ruskell, Green MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife, has been progressing his Proposed Restricted Roads (20mph Limit) (Scotland) Bill through the Scottish Parliament. The proposed bill has cross-party support from 12 SNP, seven Labour, five Green Party and one Liberal-Democrat MSP.
Scotland has been introducing 20 mph speed limits like we were being paid to do so. All new housing schemes are 20 mph zones and most housing areas not on main roads are becoming 20 mph zones.
The city of Edinburgh has a huge 20 mph zone



which virtually covers the entire city centre, with the exception of the main feeder routes (most of which are 40 mph).
I don't mind 20 mph speed limits as long as they do not stick speed bumps down. Edinburgh is pleasantly free of speed bumps, for all but housing schemes. Just big 20 mph signs in the road



(as well as the mandatory signs and repeaters).


culzean

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 08:53:58 PM »
They have been ripping up chicanes and speed bumps in Shropshire and introducing 20 mph speed limits instead, and I agree with Jocko that 20 limit is preferable, one village had 11 full width speed bumps in 1/3 of a mile.

They need a 20 limit on our estate, many people speed down the narrow roads, and go the wrong way around an island by our house because it is shorter than going around the correct way.
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RichardA

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 10:03:34 AM »
Brighton & Hove has a 20mph speed limit in most parts of the city. The section by the Pavilion is on one of the main feeder roads into the city:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-22630998/drivers-captured-breaking-brighton-s-new-20mph-speed-limit


RichardA

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 10:08:42 AM »
We had a 20mph limit through the road that all the residential streets run off from. It's been removed as the estate is yet to be adopted (it's a new build estate). The main road that this leads off from is a 40mph rural road and there are no signs indicating that the 40mph limit has ended, although the presence of street lights* (and common sense) should indicate this would be no more than a 30mph.

*some new build like the other development up the road don't even have street lights!

Jocko

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 10:15:33 AM »
As I said, I don't mind 20 mph speed limits as long as they don't stick speed bumps down too.
If need be, I prefer this type of traffic calming.

culzean

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 10:20:06 AM »
*some new build like the other development up the road don't even have street lights!

Council have just replaced the orange sodium streetlights with LED type in our area, the white light much better and more directional ( i.e.. downwards) than older lights, hopefully this will darken the sky and remove that horrible orange glow in the sky over our built up areas.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

RichardA

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 10:57:36 AM »
These speed bumps are useless, I'm sure these are narrower than my Jazz!

https://goo.gl/maps/DMYBRKtbS4F2

The chicane idea works if done properly. This one is too close the corner, I've been forced to brake when a someone coming in the opposite direction approaches it without slowing down and drives straight round it. It doesn't help when the nearby BMW dealer park their cars are right up at the chicane:

https://goo.gl/maps/DG9uE4ZWqWT2

(The next chicane after this one had to been relocated soon after installation, you see the outline the previous markings on the road.)


John Ratsey

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 03:09:02 PM »
Lower speeds and obstacles which cause stop-start driving are likely to increase CO2 as the vehicle movement becomes less efficient (until we all have hybrids or electric cars). The underlying problem is that, whatever the speed limit, a significant proportion of drivers will exceed the limit. I often accumulate a significant trail of vehicles when passing through a 30mph zone on a main road and that's when I'm a couple of mph over the indicated speed to allow for the built-in optimism (but I also get annoyed by those who drive significantly lower than the limit when the road is clear).

Jocko

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 05:19:17 PM »
Found out a bit more about this. Local councils will be able to apply for a 30 mph limit on certain roads, but instead of a blanket 30 and having to apply for a 20 zone, it will be a blanket 20 with applications for a 30 zone.

ColinB

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 08:30:38 AM »
Edinburgh is merely coming in line with national trends, for example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44935036

But do these lower speed limits achieve their objective ? Maybe ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-43050841
... or maybe not ...
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/local-news/bath-council-wrong-20mph-zones-954096


culzean

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 09:33:25 AM »
Edinburgh is merely coming in line with national trends, for example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44935036

But do these lower speed limits achieve their objective ? Maybe ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-43050841
... or maybe not ...
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/local-news/bath-council-wrong-20mph-zones-954096

On the face of it 20mph will reduce seriousness of vehicle collisions, whether with other vehicles, fixed objects or pedestrians and cyclists because of lower energy involved.  Whether it will reduce number of collisions supposes that pedestrian and cyclist behaviour remains the same,  but maybe when vehicles slow down people on foot take more risks by not using crossings and randomly wandering into the road,  peoples behaviour is very complex - and on 20 mph roads cyclists can go faster than powered vehicles.  I would like to see statistics of the number of pedestrians involved in collisions with vehicles because pedestrian was paying more attention to their phones than to their surroundings - In last 5 years I have been involved in two 'near misses' (if i had not been vigilant and emergency braked when a pedestrian left the footpath and onto road without looking due to phone use) that could have been pretty messy.   The other thing is, does drivers attention wander because of lower speed ?  Also does the speed limit apply to delivery vans,  because other speed limits don't seem to.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:47:55 AM by culzean »
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Rory

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2018, 09:51:14 AM »
*some new build like the other development up the road don't even have street lights!

Council have just replaced the orange sodium streetlights with LED type in our area, the white light much better and more directional ( i.e.. downwards) than older lights, hopefully this will darken the sky and remove that horrible orange glow in the sky over our built up areas.

We've just got those - previously there were vertical orange lamps which illuminated a wide area, including the fronts of the houses.  I appreaciate the advantages of LED and the downward focus but the downside is the lack of spread of their light output makes the area seem very dark now.  Even just for the road and footpath surface, the LEDs are bright underneath them but it's pitch black when you get between them - it feels like there should be at least twice as many.


Our village (and all West Cheshire built-up areas) are also getting 20's.   They seem fine in my car which is an auto, but 20 somehow feels awkward in a manual.

Jocko

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2018, 09:56:15 AM »
Edinburgh is merely coming in line with national trends, for example:
Edinburgh is actually leading London as it is all up and in force and has been for a number of months.
Scotland is looking at basically replacing every 30 mph limit with a 20 mph limit, and councils will have to apply to have some roads made 30 as they currently have to do to get 20 mph zones.

Jocko

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2018, 10:20:14 AM »
I appreaciate the advantages of LED and the downward focus but the downside is the lack of spread of their light output makes the area seem very dark now.  Even just for the road and footpath surface, the LEDs are bright underneath them but it's pitch black when you get between them - it feels like there should be at least twice as many.
Our village (and all West Cheshire built-up areas) are also getting 20's.   They seem fine in my car which is an auto, but 20 somehow feels awkward in a manual.
Now that it is dark in the mornings, when I take my wife to her work, I have noticed that the street lights beside my garage have been changed to LED. They are on the other side of the road from the garage, so because there is a good car length between the garage doors and the road, the lamps are a goodly distance away. It is relatively dark in front of my garage now, and I have a lamp post right opposite. It will be worse further down the row of garages.

I find 20 mph easy to drive at in my Jazz. It is perfectly happy at 20 mph in 4th gear. However, I have an i-DSi engine which is happy to pull from these speeds. Others may not be so lucky. I get brilliant mpg in 20 zones!

culzean

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Re: 30 mph to become 20 mph?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2018, 10:47:57 AM »
*some new build like the other development up the road don't even have street lights!

Council have just replaced the orange sodium streetlights with LED type in our area, the white light much better and more directional ( i.e.. downwards) than older lights, hopefully this will darken the sky and remove that horrible orange glow in the sky over our built up areas.

We've just got those - previously there were vertical orange lamps which illuminated a wide area, including the fronts of the houses.  I appreaciate the advantages of LED and the downward focus but the downside is the lack of spread of their light output makes the area seem very dark now.  Even just for the road and footpath surface, the LEDs are bright underneath them but it's pitch black when you get between them - it feels like there should be at least twice as many.

It is relatively dark in front of my garage now, and I have a lamp post right opposite. It will be worse further down the row of garages.

I find 20 mph easy to drive at in my Jazz. It is perfectly happy at 20 mph in 4th gear. However, I have an i-DSi engine which is happy to pull from these speeds. Others may not be so lucky. I get brilliant mpg in 20 zones!

The ones we have put plenty of light sideways (at right angles to lamp head and down onto road, like a rectangle in same direction as road) but less towards and away from the lamp post and a lot less upwards  - all in all the light is more controlled and a lot less stray light,  so yes it does seem darker away from the road than it used to but the light on the actual road and footpath is great - and you can see the stars more clearly and things are their proper colours - not distorted by the orange sodium light.

Both my wife and myself wish her GE had i-DSi engine, much more tractable and IMHO easier to get great mpg than the high revving  i-Vtec lump, much more suited to urban driving and we also did many motorway miles (trips to Cornwall and Scotland ) in our GD's and never felt they were under-powered.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 03:12:58 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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