Author Topic: Flat as a fart  (Read 1163 times)

philskynet

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2014 si
Flat as a fart
« on: August 08, 2018, 08:56:58 PM »
Hi all
I have 2014 jazz si after upgrading from an 06 jazz se
Love the look of the car and it drives well but it's a very frustrating car in the power department.
Now I know it's not suppose to be a rocket but sometimes it just loses power and dosnt perform the way it should in my opinion .
My last jazz woukd pull like a train in 3rd and this sometimes has to be dropped to 2nd ,thst being said let's say I come to a roundabout slowing down.. I'm in 2nd with a bit of speed still on and it's clear so I go!! It's response is absolutely abysmal.. only way I can explain it is it's as if it's got a limiter on it
Forgive me if this post sounds stupid
 

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 10:08:35 PM »
That will be the Atkinson-cycle for you. Honda's way of improving fuel consumption. I am sure more owners of this breed will be able to throw some light upon the situation. I have a DSi, and it pulls like a train, whatever the revs.

philskynet

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2014 si
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 10:38:38 PM »
Interesting you should say that because my 1st thoughts were something to do with that stupid change up and down eco light
It'll also interesting if there was some sort of bypass for this because it's bloody frustrating
Top end down the motorway it performs like any car of its bhp should but at low speeds round the doors it's pathetic

123Drive!

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz 1.4 ES i-Shift
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 11:00:37 PM »
I have a 1.4 I-SHIFT and everything is right except the performance. However, two years ago, I started to use Shell V-POWER and it performs a lot quicker, especially in 2nd. May be try a few tanks and see?

philskynet

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2014 si
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 11:27:04 PM »
I have a 1.4 I-SHIFT and everything is right except the performance. However, two years ago, I started to use Shell V-POWER and it performs a lot quicker, especially in 2nd. May be try a few tanks and see?
Worth a try I suppose
Thanks

csp

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 197
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: Sunset Orange 65 Reg SE CVT
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2018, 06:06:32 AM »
I have had 2009, 2012 and  Atkonson engined 2015 Jazz and I find that I need to use more revs to get acceleration form the 2015 Jazz, mine is a CVT so I use the down shift paddle to get more go and for engine breaking on hills. The current Jazz is my first auto for some time but it did take longer to get used to a new way of driving. I don't drive that very fast but I find I can get the accelleration when I need it.

Kenneve

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2016 Mk3 EX CVT, Red
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2018, 12:25:05 PM »
In order get reasonable power and acceleration from the Atkinson cycle engine, engine speed needs to be in the 3000+rpm band.
In my view, the problem of poor performance only really occurs with Manual cars, simply because the engine is revving usually way below that figure, when the need to accelerate arises.

With a CVT car as soon as you put your foot down the engine speeds up into the power band and away you go!
On the odd time when, for whatever reason it does not respond, then a quick flick of the downshift paddle, soon sorts it out.

Make no mistake, the Atkinson cycle engine can be made to perform, when the need arises, it's just a slightly different technique that is required and I'm quite happy to accept that, in the interests of overall fuel economy.

Just for interest the 'History of trip A' results for the last 3 tankfuls of fuel have been 53.1, 51.2, 52.9 mpg and I'm very happy with that.

philskynet

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2014 si
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2018, 01:11:41 PM »
Don't get me wrong I'm no boy racer wanting to beat other cars off the line it's just really really frustrating 
An example of this was a couple of weeks ago when travelling up Sutton bank in north Yorkshire 2nd gear should have got me to the top but halfway up it was like I was in 4th and had to slam I to 1st  in order to get the rest if the away up
Seriously wish I hadn't brought the bloody thing

d2d4j

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Jazz SI 5 Dr
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 02:02:52 PM »
Hi

We have a jazz si and have traveled up Sutton bank in 3rd gear.

Even the drag on the m62, it copes lovely in 5th at 8mph (I usually have cruise control on)

Many thanks

John

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4048
  • Country: england
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 02:23:43 PM »
In order get reasonable power and acceleration from the Atkinson cycle engine, engine speed needs to be in the 3000+rpm band.
In my view, the problem of poor performance only really occurs with Manual cars, simply because the engine is revving usually way below that figure, when the need to accelerate arises.

I would have thought atkinson mode would be dependent on accelerator position as well as engine revs,  ie at low throttle openings atkinson could be held on for longer but when the loud pedal is pushed hard the atkinson would be terminated.   Apart from when you want to pull away sharpish and not slip the clutch too much I find Jazz has enough power. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1106
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2016 Blue HR-V SE CVT
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 04:30:27 PM »
I think the discussion about the Atkinson cycle, although interesting, is irrelevant as the vehicle in question is a 2014 Mk 2 Jazz (whether 1.2 or 1.4 isn't stated). It would be more useful if those who have had both the Mk 1 and Mk 2 Jazzes to give their perceptions of how the iDSI and iVTEC engines compare. I never felt the 1.4 Mk 2 was lacking at the low end in the way described here. Perhaps a dose of Redex, new plugs and an Italian tune-up is needed to clear its lungs.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 04:32:07 PM by John Ratsey »

Rory

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 451
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 04:54:04 PM »
It would be more useful if those who have had both the Mk 1 and Mk 2 Jazzes to give their perceptions of how the iDSI and iVTEC engines compare. I never felt the 1.4 Mk 2 was lacking at the low end in the way described here.

We've had a 2003 mk1 and 2009 mk2 and I've also driven daughters 2014 mk2 quite a bit.  All 1.4.  I'd say there's a slight feeling of less low down torque in the mk2's but it's a feeling rather than anything real.   I've never felt the mk2's were lacking.


I notice the OP refers to the eco light - I wonder if he's changing gear according to what the light is telling him, rather than the driving conditions?  I take no notice of the light.  These engines like to be revved anyway.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4048
  • Country: england
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 05:10:36 PM »
I think the discussion about the Atkinson cycle, although interesting, is irrelevant as the vehicle in question is a 2014 Mk 2 Jazz (whether 1.2 or 1.4 isn't stated). It would be more useful if those who have had both the Mk 1 and Mk 2 Jazzes to give their perceptions of how the iDSI and iVTEC engines compare. I never felt the 1.4 Mk 2 was lacking at the low end in the way described here. Perhaps a dose of Redex, new plugs and an Italian tune-up is needed to clear its lungs.

Having driven I-DSi and I-Vtec Jazz (1.4's) I still prefer i-DSi engine for what the Jazz was designed for - a city car with occasional motorway trips,  the I-DSi was much nicer lower down and the i-VTec can be a bit gutless below 2-500 revs, and if you slip into that range when changing gear on a hill you may have to change down again.  My wife is of the same opinion and she would love the i-DSi in her MK2.   I you keep I-Vtec above 2,500 it is fine.

The I.8 i-VTec Civic engine has had atkinson mode since 2006  when 8th Gen was introduced, but Jazz only got it in 2015 ?
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1106
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2016 Blue HR-V SE CVT
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 06:16:56 PM »
The I.8 i-VTec Civic engine has had atkinson mode since 2006  when 8th Gen was introduced, but Jazz only got it in 2015 ?
If the Atkinson cycle mode is present on the Mk 2 Jazz then Honda never told anyone. It would likely have improved the hybrid Jazz's mpg. This info, publishined in 2013, https://earthdreamstech.wordpress.com/ says Honda is planning to use the Atkinson cycle for engines between 1.3 and 2 litres which fits with its introduction on the Mk 3 Jazz.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Flat as a fart
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2018, 06:29:40 PM »
culzean was referring to the 2006 Civic, not the Jazz.

Tags:
 

Back to top