Author Topic: lack of choice on engine size  (Read 3717 times)

mcmurpty110661

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lack of choice on engine size
« on: June 28, 2018, 08:04:52 AM »
Hi Ive just joined this forum,Im not a boy racer by any stretch of the imagination, but although I love my Jazz mark 3 , just amazed I could only get it in a 1.3 , I know they now have he Jazz a 1.5 but I was to early for that ,  amazed they left it so long to give you a choice of a bigger engine , they would have sold a lot more I believe given the new super engine fiesta is a direct competitor and I almost chose a fiesta foo oomph , but settled on the jazz for reliability , so now I want the 1.5 but they attach the word sport to it and pile on the ússs and the ordinary jazz is dear enough , so think the sport is out of my reach , honda are so expensive and I think they play on the loyalty of customers , i.e theyll buy it anyway so why give them a bargain.

andruec

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 09:23:51 AM »
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for starting what could be a great discussion.

It is a bit odd that the 1.5 is only available with lower spec trim but I assume they are targeting what they think of as boy racers and concluded that more sensible drivers wouldn't be interested. It isn't as simple as just sticking a 1.5 in an EX there is a cost to them doing that and they may have decided that there wouldn't be enough interest to justify it.

To be honest I can see their point - the 1.3 is no slouch as long as you work the accelerator pedal. And I don't mean you have to floor it at every opportunity - you just have to get it above 3000 rpm. I've had three 1.3 Jazzes now and have never felt it was under powered. Sure I'm not going to out drag a true boy racer but most drivers just don't use what they have anyway. Most of the time my 'brisk' acceleration will be faster than what anyone else is doing and I certainly have enough get up and go to avoid holding people up.

I can 'mix it' with rush hour traffic and even busy motorway traffic without feeling inadequate. On the way home I have to climb up a steep dual carriageway for a mile and sometimes scream up with a group of like minded cars. If the cars in front are proper 'power demons' like BMWs or Audis then, yes, I'll fall behind. But any more 'normal' car I'll stick with all the way and often end up pushing them to one side when I decide to be naughty and keep going beyond 70mph.

I think the 1.5 engine would be fun, especially with the CVT, but I don't think it's needed. The 1.3 engine provides plenty of power for sensible driving and even allows for a little 'fun' occasionally.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 09:28:03 AM by andruec »

Jocko

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2018, 10:11:04 AM »
Even my old 1.2 can hold its own in normal traffic. Away from the lights I am as quick as every other normal driver. I could be even quicker if the gears were a bit better spaced and my clutch wasn't such a pig.
The number of times I try to change up from 5th, indicates that another gear would have been welcome, even on the smallest and least powerful of the bunch. I seldom ever exceed 4,000 rpm. The highest I have recorded is 4,377 and I think that was on a misjudged down shift.
Powerful cars are fun to drive, but normal motorists only use that power once in a blue moon and as andruec says, I am sure Honda have done their market research most diligently. I think the 1.5 Sport may be a loss leader, hoping to tempt the younger set to the marque. Not everyone can afford a Civic Type R!

peteo48

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2018, 10:17:29 AM »
I guess the issue might be what the motoring pundits call "low down grunt" - the Jazz doesn't have a turbo and isn't available in diesel (not having a diesel is turning out to be quite far sighted in view of the air quality issues).

I'm surprised they haven't tried the 1.0 litre turbo that's in the new Civic. I've had one of those as a loan car and that certainly does have low down grunt.

But I guess we are becoming used to cars that accelerate easily with minimal throttle input. Now I've got a CVT I'm learning to open the throttle much wider than I used too and the car responds well to that with no noticeable increase in mpg. The fact that, at 40, it seems to burble along at not much faster than idle speed must help counteract any increase in throttle opening to gain acceleration.

Skyrider

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2018, 10:31:21 AM »
I would have preferred a 1.5 SE if it existed, as it is I have a 1.5 SE with a boy racer plastic bodykit and a few extra bits. You have to work at driving a 1.3,  a 1.5 feels effortless in comparison, especially with a CVT. The facelift modifications improve the overall "feel" of the car as well. I have decided that this car is a "keeper" I think it is that good. I got rid of my 1.3 earlier than expected, the only reason was the engine.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 11:14:43 AM by Skyrider »

culzean

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2018, 12:13:46 PM »
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for starting what could be a great discussion.

It is a bit odd that the 1.5 is only available with lower spec trim but I assume they are targeting what they think of as boy racers and concluded that more sensible drivers wouldn't be interested. It isn't as simple as just sticking a 1.5 in an EX there is a cost to them doing that and they may have decided that there wouldn't be enough interest to justify it.

To be honest I can see their point - the 1.3 is no slouch as long as you work the accelerator pedal. And I don't mean you have to floor it at every opportunity - you just have to get it above 3000 rpm. I've had three 1.3 Jazzes now and have never felt it was under powered. Sure I'm not going to out drag a true boy racer but most drivers just don't use what they have anyway. Most of the time my 'brisk' acceleration will be faster than what anyone else is doing and I certainly have enough get up and go to avoid holding people up.

I can 'mix it' with rush hour traffic and even busy motorway traffic without feeling inadequate. On the way home I have to climb up a steep dual carriageway for a mile and sometimes scream up with a group of like minded cars. If the cars in front are proper 'power demons' like BMWs or Audis then, yes, I'll fall behind. But any more 'normal' car I'll stick with all the way and often end up pushing them to one side when I decide to be naughty and keep going beyond 70mph.

I think the 1.5 engine would be fun, especially with the CVT, but I don't think it's needed. The 1.3 engine provides plenty of power for sensible driving and even allows for a little 'fun' occasionally.

+1

1.3 is more than adequate for most people, and offering a limited range of engines keeps prices down. I did prefer the engine characteristics of Mk1 8 valve twin spark engine though (more tractable lower down) and got really good mpg from ours, better than mpg we get from wifes Mk2.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Skyrider

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2018, 12:48:20 PM »
I am sure we have all driven or owned cars with engines with better driving characteristics than the 1.3. The bottom line is the 1.3 is configured to be a hybrid engine assisted by an electric motor. I hope whoever decided to use it on its own has been sacked. Honda ended up with a good car spoilt by a poor engine choice.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 01:09:29 PM by Skyrider »

ColinS

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2018, 02:02:27 PM »
The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills.  A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model.  You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines.  As soon as you change to third, it just dies.

peteo48

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2018, 02:48:05 PM »
I would have preferred a 1.5 SE if it existed, as it is I have a 1.5 SE with a boy racer plastic bodykit and a few extra bits. You have to work at driving a 1.3,  a 1.5 feels effortless in comparison, especially with a CVT. The facelift modifications improve the overall "feel" of the car as well. I have decided that this car is a "keeper" I think it is that good. I got rid of my 1.3 earlier than expected, the only reason was the engine.


I think the phrase "You have to work at driving a 1.3" may well hit the nail on the head. My own driving means that this isn't an issue - pootling round town with the odd motorway cruise. The 1.3 does all this more than adequately. I've often said, though, that I'd want something more powerful if I did a much bigger mileage covering a much bigger variety of roads.


Looks like the 1.5 completes the range quite well.

culzean

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2018, 02:57:44 PM »
The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills.  A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model.  You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines.  As soon as you change to third, it just dies.

I don't find that at all,  and going over 3000 rpm is not 'revving the guts out of it'.  Shropshire has some pretty good hills (and we have been all over Scotland, Lake district, Derbyshire,  up Porlock in Somerset and all around Devon and Cornwall).

One hill near us will see you doing about 90mph if you coast down it - I have seen 90mph going up the same hill in my wifes Jazz as part of an Italian tuneup (don't tell her though,  she rarely uses more than 3000 revs).

100 ponies is certainly not gutless. 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 03:02:45 PM by culzean »
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andruec

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2018, 03:16:05 PM »
The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills.  A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model.  You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines.  As soon as you change to third, it just dies.
Well if you will insist on using last century gear selection technology...

I never have to reach for the gear lever no matter how steep the hill and most of the time I'm not even aware that the gear changes are happening ;)

ColinS

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2018, 03:17:51 PM »
The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills.  A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model.  You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines.  As soon as you change to third, it just dies.

I don't find that at all,  and going over 3000 rpm is not 'revving the guts out of it'.  Shropshire has some pretty good hills (and we have been all over Scotland, Lake district, Derbyshire,  up Porlock in Somerset and all around Devon and Cornwall).

One hill near us will see you doing about 90mph if you coast down it - I have seen 90mph going up the same hill in my wifes Jazz as part of an Italian tuneup (don't tell her though,  she rarely uses more than 3000 revs).

100 ponies is certainly not gutless.

The hill out of Shaftesbury going towards Blandford in Dorset is a 40mph speed limit, which cars regularily attain.  I have to get close to 5000rpm in second to achieve that.  At 3000rpm (which I agree isn't reving the guts out of it), I am doing 25mph.  If I change up to third at 40mph, it just dies.

ColinS

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2018, 03:19:11 PM »
The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills.  A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model.  You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines.  As soon as you change to third, it just dies.
Well if you will insist on using last century gear selection technology...

I never have to reach for the gear lever no matter how steep the hill and most of the time I'm not even aware that the gear changes are happening ;)

Yeah my next one will be CVT.  Hopefully a Jazz 1.5 EX but if not available, then an HR-V.

Jocko

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2018, 03:27:14 PM »
The hill out of Shaftesbury going towards Blandford in Dorset is a 40mph speed limit, which cars regularily attain.  I have to get close to 5000rpm in second to achieve that.  At 3000rpm (which I agree isn't reving the guts out of it), I am doing 25mph.  If I change up to third at 40mph, it just dies.
That sounds terrible. Any of the main road hills around here I can happily climb, at 40 mph, in 4th and often in 5th. There is a particularly steep hill, coming off the Mossmorran Roundabout and heading towards Auchtertool (B925), and I can give way at the roundabout and still happily climb the hill in 4th.

Skyrider

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Re: lack of choice on engine size
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2018, 03:37:50 PM »
The hill out of Shaftesbury going towards Blandford in Dorset is a 40mph speed limit, which cars regularily attain.  I have to get close to 5000rpm in second to achieve that.  At 3000rpm (which I agree isn't reving the guts out of it), I am doing 25mph.  If I change up to third at 40mph, it just dies.
That sounds terrible. Any of the main road hills around here I can happily climb, at 40 mph, in 4th and often in 5th. There is a particularly steep hill, coming off the Mossmorran Roundabout and heading towards Auchtertool (B925), and I can give way at the roundabout and still happily climb the hill in 4th.

Don't try that hill in fourth in a 1.3! I was on that road yesterday.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 03:39:25 PM by Skyrider »

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