Author Topic: Accelerator pedal detent.  (Read 2487 times)

andruec

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2018, 12:21:29 PM »
That is a thing I loved about automatics. There are a set of lights at the start of the M8. I loved getting stopped at the front of the queue. There was always some speedster in lane 2. I would drop out of Drive, and on the green lights I would floor it. The kickdown would operate and I would be off like a scalded cat. It would change up, just before the rev limiter, until such time as I bottled out, fearing licence threatening penalty points.
Unfortunately (or maybe not) the Honda CVT doesn't support fast starts. It's probably trying to protect the belt but even if you immediately floor the accelerator past the detente you're not going to see the revs go any higher than 4,000 until the car has got well underway. You can still out accelerate most drivers simply because most drivers barely nudge the accelerator but you can forget any attempt to 'burn rubber'.

Mine does not work like that. It is easy to provoke the traction control into action when accelerating on wet roads.
Maybe that's a feature of the 1.5? The only time I've ever broken traction when accelerating was on ice and gravel.

Quote
Sounds obvious but how many drivers do you see braking hard for a light that has been red for a while or a give way that you could see from way back?
Far too many. Virtually all of them. Unless traffic is really heavy I always try to hang back so that I never actually have to stop. It's even more important to manage that with the idle stop since the last thing you want is to have the engine switch off just as you're trying to get going and I don't want it off for less than three seconds because I believe that's the point when battery recharging costs become less than the idling fuel consumption. When I learnt to drive in the late 80s my driving instructor who was ex-Police told me that brakes are for stopping and correcting your mistakes. I've always attempted to drive without brakes. It's more efficient, kinder to the car(*) and - if you do it right - safer because you need good anticipation and acceleration sense.

(*)I do not mean using the gears to slow the vehicle. That is bad for the transmission. I just mean adjusting the vehicle's speed using only the accelerator pedal. It's more difficult when you have an automatic but the challenge just adds to the fun and encourages you to hang further back and anticipate more.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:25:35 PM by andruec »

Skyrider

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2018, 12:32:50 PM »
I have not found driving brake free more difficult with a CVT. If you release the accelerator pedal at any speed the engine revs drop instantly to 1,200 ish and the car slows gently with engine braking. I can only speak for a 1.5 CVT, I have not driven a 1.3 CVT.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:35:17 PM by Skyrider »

andruec

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2018, 03:46:17 PM »
I have not found driving brake free more difficult with a CVT. If you release the accelerator pedal at any speed the engine revs drop instantly to 1,200 ish and the car slows gently with engine braking. I can only speak for a 1.5 CVT, I have not driven a 1.3 CVT.
That's definitely something new then. The Mk1 would occasionally offer engine braking close to what you can get in a manual but it was random. Most of the time on all the models I've driven (Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3) lifting off doesn't give much more than tyre rolling resistance. In fact both the Mk2 and Mk3 appear to dislike engine braking and on steep downslopes, if you deliberately select a low gear, will continually raise then lower the revs as if trying to relieve the pressure.

My daily commute takes me down a stretch of dual carriageway leading to the M40. It's about 1.5 miles long and around 30 degrees. I typically accelerate to 60 mph then take my foot off the accelerator and I'll usually still be doing over 50mph at the bottom even though it shallows. Then there's Rhuallt Hill on the A55 in North Wales. I'm usually doing 60mph at the top of that and again I lift off, by the time I'm near the bottom the car will be doing 70mph.

No way would either of those happen in a manual car. Not even in a 6th.

There is more engine braking in 'S' mode presumably by design so perhaps 'D' on the sporty model works like 'S' on the standard model. That might be another point in its favour. I've noticed when I drove a courtesy car earlier this year that on the facelifted Jazz if you floor the accelerator it fakes RPM changes. I didn't feel the 'gear changes' so it seemed to be just for show. Not entirely unpleasant but a bit sad that Honda have chosen to fake the effect because presumably so many drivers don't understand CVTs. That was only a 1.3 though as the 1.5 hadn't been launched yet.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 03:50:05 PM by andruec »

zzaj

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2018, 04:53:31 PM »
I have not found driving brake free more difficult with a CVT. If you release the accelerator pedal at any speed the engine revs drop instantly to 1,200 ish and the car slows gently with engine braking. I can only speak for a 1.5 CVT, I have not driven a 1.3 CVT.
That's definitely something new then. The Mk1 would occasionally offer engine braking close to what you can get in a manual but it was random. Most of the time on all the models I've driven (Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3) lifting off doesn't give much more than tyre rolling resistance. In fact both the Mk2 and Mk3 appear to dislike engine braking and on steep downslopes, if you deliberately select a low gear, will continually raise then lower the revs as if trying to relieve the pressure.

My daily commute takes me down a stretch of dual carriageway leading to the M40. It's about 1.5 miles long and around 30 degrees. I typically accelerate to 60 mph then take my foot off the accelerator and I'll usually still be doing over 50mph at the bottom even though it shallows. Then there's Rhuallt Hill on the A55 in North Wales. I'm usually doing 60mph at the top of that and again I lift off, by the time I'm near the bottom the car will be doing 70mph.

No way would either of those happen in a manual car. Not even in a 6th.

There is more engine braking in 'S' mode presumably by design so perhaps 'D' on the sporty model works like 'S' on the standard model. That might be another point in its favour. I've noticed when I drove a courtesy car earlier this year that on the facelifted Jazz if you floor the accelerator it fakes RPM changes. I didn't feel the 'gear changes' so it seemed to be just for show. Not entirely unpleasant but a bit sad that Honda have chosen to fake the effect because presumably so many drivers don't understand CVTs. That was only a 1.3 though as the 1.5 hadn't been launched yet.

I would say that my Mk2 CVT is devoid of engine braking and can be relied upon to accelerate well above the set speed going down hill in cruise control.

(I  am a total convert to CVT and cannot understand why anyone would ever use anything else).

culzean

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2018, 05:36:10 PM »
I drove proper autos abroad for many years, and my wife had a CVT for about 4 years and engine braking lacking on all of them. Autos are known for being hard on brake pads.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2018, 05:40:20 PM »
Before the Jazz I drove automatics for 25 years. Three different cars. The Carlton had a 3 speed , the Cavalier a 4 speed, and the S40 a 5 speed. None of them had engine braking to talk of, even when you selected a lower ratio.

Skyrider

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2018, 05:49:03 PM »
On thinking about it mine does not slow down going downhill, although I can "change down" with the paddle shifters to slow the car. The CVT feels like decelerating in 6th gear of a MT car if left to sort itself out. I certainly agree that the CVT is the better transmission but bear in mind I have not driven a 1.3 CVT. My opinion may be biased because of the extra power and lack of the Atkinson limitation. I have driven many autos over the years, usually more powerful than the Jazz but the Honda CVT is one of the best I have come across. I think it's torque converter makes a vast difference compared to a dual clutch DCT type, particularly at low speed.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 06:45:14 PM by Skyrider »

andruec

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2018, 06:55:16 PM »
Oh I do like the CVT (although the handling of the Atkinson cycle on the 1.3 is naff) and there is enough engine braking to avoid the brake pedal most of the time. I was just surprised at your comment that there was plenty of engine braking. It wouldn't surprise me if the 1.5 edition held onto the revs for longer to provide a sporty feel.

JazzyJJ

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2018, 07:06:37 PM »
I drove proper autos abroad for many years, and my wife had a CVT for about 4 years and engine braking lacking on all of them. Autos are known for being hard on brake pads.

Yes. Iím noticing that Iím braking way more and harder than I did with my mk1 manual. And I am a proponent of releasing the accelerator well in advance of approaching lights and junctions etc. I think the brakes arenít going to last long...

Skyrider

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2018, 07:18:41 PM »
Oh I do like the CVT (although the handling of the Atkinson cycle on the 1.3 is naff) and there is enough engine braking to avoid the brake pedal most of the time. I was just surprised at your comment that there was plenty of engine braking. It wouldn't surprise me if the 1.5 edition held onto the revs for longer to provide a sporty feel.

I would think that my CVT has different programming than the 1.3 even if only because of no Atkinson. It steps off from a standstill quite smartly even in drive and there is a marked difference between drive and sport modes with the engine always running at more revs for a given road speed in sport mode.

Skyrider

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Re: Accelerator pedal detent.
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2018, 07:55:22 AM »
Oh I do like the CVT (although the handling of the Atkinson cycle on the 1.3 is naff) and there is enough engine braking to avoid the brake pedal most of the time. I was just surprised at your comment that there was plenty of engine braking. It wouldn't surprise me if the 1.5 edition held onto the revs for longer to provide a sporty feel.

I would think that my CVT has different programming than the 1.3 even if only because of no Atkinson. It steps off from a standstill quite smartly even in drive and there is a marked difference between drive and sport modes with the engine always running at more revs for a given road speed in sport mode.

On giving it a bit more thought, I suspect that the programming of the Sport CVT is no different than the HRV 1.5 CVT programming. The extra power in effectively the same Jazz bodyshell along with no Atkinson cycle will make a Jazz feel very different. It would make commercial sense for Honda to use any software in as many different models as possible assuming the same engine and CVT.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 08:01:55 PM by Skyrider »

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