Mk3 - ruining the reputation one step at a time.

[Jocko]

New Hondas are ten a penny round here. Nearest dealer is 10 miles away. When we had a Honda dealer in the town it looked like every second car was a Honda!

[JazzyJJ]

Honda UK sales must be poor - rare to see a mk3 Jazz

Not around here. I see other Mk3 Jazz all the time - on my commute, during the day. They are quite common.

Same. Lots - mk1, mk2 and recently spotted 3-4 mk3 on surrounding roads. There was a grey 1.5 sport parked outside house today for awhile. Looked good.

[Downsizer]

The Nissan Micra was a possible (great looks) but they aren't selling an automatic version at the moment.

I'm currently driving a Micra 5 sp manual hire car in northern Portugal, where the motorways are surprisingly hilly.  The car looks good but feels underpowered, and I'm having to drop down to 3rd to maintain 100 kph on the hills.  I'm missing my cvt!  Also, the rear seat room looks small, but this is not a problem on a holiday for two.

[123Drive!]

Toyota Yaris are very popular in London because it's available in Hybrid and has 0% finance and around £3k discount. Nothing like that for the Jazz or Mirca. Shame as imo Honda makes better cars than Toyota.

Crazy Mirca has no auto considering the reason why people brought them was because it was available in Automatic! Toyota must be laughing as they are taking all Nissan's customers.

[Jocko]

has no auto considering the reason why people brought them was because it was available in Automatic!

That's to get the customers to TRY the Leaf.

[peteo48]

There seems to be a fair amount of anti VW feeling in this topic, ( well it is a Honda site ! ) I would just say that I am now on my 15th VW . I started driving in 1968 and bought my first one more or less straight away. Apart from this first buy, all have been very reliable,although things got off to a bad start with the first one which dropped a valve and ruined the engine. Despite this I was impressed with the otherwise good service this vehicle gave and have used VW ever since.
We have the jazz as well, but I prefer the VW, in particular the bodywork /paint finish/interior plastics are much better than the jazz, also the ride is much smoother in the VW  I do like the CVT transmission in the jazz however, I wish VW would use this type of auto, I am not confident in the DSG which they use.
All the above obviously just my opinion based on 50+ years of motoring

It can often take one really bad car - in my case a 1.9tdi Mk5 Golf - to put you off a brand for life. It may be confirmation bias but when I was going through the mill with this car - by a country mile the most unreliable car I've had in my 50 years of motoring - I started doing a bit of research and VW are not great for reliability - average at best. The ABS pump problem I had was such an issue that support groups were set up. After much campaigning they reluctantly agreed to repair some out of warranty cases on a goodwill basis.


In saying that I will concede that I've had reliable VWs - a Polo and a Bora. I will also concede that I do miss the build quality - that solid feel that Hondas don't really have.


But I value peace of mind so it's Japanese for me for the rest of my motoring days.

[guest7675]

I must step in and say that i had a honda civic crx in 1990 it was a used 130bhp manual and it had done 60,000 miles when i got it and it was a solid built car and drove like it was fresh out the factory a great car, build quality like shut lines was so tight as well.

[andruec]

I must step in and say that i had a honda civic crx in 1990 it was a used 130bhp manual and it had done 60,000 miles when i got it and it was a solid built car and drove like it was fresh out the factory a great car, build quality like shut lines was so tight as well.

Same for my first two Jazz and the two Civics before that. The Mk1 and Mk2 were great - well built and reliable. Also good designs that made me feel at home.

Then the Mk3 came along. It's okay and has never let me down but it's had the following niggles:
* Infotainment unit kept crashing from new. Took six months before I installed a patch that my dealer couldn't/wouldn't that fixed it.
* Engine doesn't start properly in my garage during the winter in the morning. This appears to have been fixed by me running a dehumidifier inside my house all winter. Not that I felt I had a damp problem but it did prevent condensation on my double glazing and possibly reduces heating costs. If it also fixes the cold starting problem that's a bonus.
* Door mirrors won't rotate as far as previous models so I can't see rear wheels when reversing. But I'm relying on the reversing camera now.
* Impossible to find a single wiper speed that I can leave the auto wipers set at.
* Door mirrors not always unfolding, or closing unexpectedly - ongoing.
* Loss of spare wheel area for boot storage. Or at least if you do use it you need to reinforce the boot floor.
* The placement of some controls feels odd.

I don't know how much of this is due to the Mk3 production being moved to Japan from the UK but although I'd always prefer to buy a Japanese marque I think I'd prefer that they actually be assembled here. Possibly better quality and might even allow for some UK design input.

[donerkebab]

I must step in and say that i had a honda civic crx in 1990 it was a used 130bhp manual and it had done 60,000 miles when i got it and it was a solid built car and drove like it was fresh out the factory a great car, build quality like shut lines was so tight as well.

Same for my first two Jazz and the two Civics before that. The Mk1 and Mk2 were great - well built and reliable. Also good designs that made me feel at home.

Then the Mk3 came along. It's okay and has never let me down but it's had the following niggles:
* Infotainment unit kept crashing from new. Took six months before I installed a patch that my dealer couldn't/wouldn't that fixed it.
* Engine doesn't start properly in my garage during the winter in the morning. This appears to have been fixed by me running a dehumidifier inside my house all winter. Not that I felt I had a damp problem but it did prevent condensation on my double glazing and possibly reduces heating costs. If it also fixes the cold starting problem that's a bonus.
* Door mirrors won't rotate as far as previous models so I can't see rear wheels when reversing. But I'm relying on the reversing camera now.
* Impossible to find a single wiper speed that I can leave the auto wipers set at.
* Door mirrors not always unfolding, or closing unexpectedly - ongoing.
* Loss of spare wheel area for boot storage. Or at least if you do use it you need to reinforce the boot floor.
* The placement of some controls feels odd.

I don't know how much of this is due to the Mk3 production being moved to Japan from the UK but although I'd always prefer to buy a Japanese marque I think I'd prefer that they actually be assembled here. Possibly better quality and might even allow for some UK design input.

How did you find/install the patch for the info unit?  One that that removes the stupid nag screen would be ideal

[John Ratsey]

I recall that the last Which? car survey found that electrics / electronics are now the biggest source of problems in recent vehicles across most manufacturers (Dacia was the most reliable part of the Renault group because they have fewest gizmos).

There's no good reason for electrical problems unless it's poor quality control but the increasing interaction between components and the ECU makes troubleshooting more difficult as the hardware might be find but there's a bug in the software. I agree that the Mk. 3's rain sensor was a major step backwards from the Mk. 2 but is the underlying problem with the sensor (hardware) or the interpretation of the sensor's output (software)? etc. The net result is that excellent mechanical engineering is being spoiled by poor software produced by either the manufacturers themselves or sub-contractors. And the Japanese might not be the best for software.

This is a good opportunity to link to this feature on battery charging http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1011&context=auto_pres which was posted in the Mk. 1 Jazz sub-forum. Bolt on the extra complications associated with the stop-start system (as most likely Honda has done) and the result is a set of logic which probably no one fully understands. Something I have figured out on my HR-V is that the threshold battery voltage needed for stop-start to work and not display the low battery message depends on the ambient temperature. Stop-start wants a battery voltage of 12.3 or 12.4V in the winter but is happy with 12.1V during the summer. Not to be confused with the cold engine, etc, messages. I haven't figured out if there's a threshold temperature or a progressive change but the result is that in the summer the vehicle can stand for a week or more and stop-start will still work while in winter it won't.
 

[peteo48]

I must step in and say that i had a honda civic crx in 1990 it was a used 130bhp manual and it had done 60,000 miles when i got it and it was a solid built car and drove like it was fresh out the factory a great car, build quality like shut lines was so tight as well.

Same for my first two Jazz and the two Civics before that. The Mk1 and Mk2 were great - well built and reliable. Also good designs that made me feel at home.

I had 2 Mk2s and I think I'd go along with your feelings. Sometimes it's intangible but the Mk2 seemed to have an intangible coherence of design. Everything seemed in the right place and fit for purpose. There is a bit of a "thrown together" feel about aspects of the Mk3 interior.

It's hard to express what I mean but I guess you feel the same way. I'm happy, overall, with my new car mainly because I've enjoyed changing to an automatic and I sense already that this car will deliver better mpg but has the Jazz lost its soul?

[andruec]

I must step in and say that i had a honda civic crx in 1990 it was a used 130bhp manual and it had done 60,000 miles when i got it and it was a solid built car and drove like it was fresh out the factory a great car, build quality like shut lines was so tight as well.

Same for my first two Jazz and the two Civics before that. The Mk1 and Mk2 were great - well built and reliable. Also good designs that made me feel at home.

Then the Mk3 came along. It's okay and has never let me down but it's had the following niggles:
* Infotainment unit kept crashing from new. Took six months before I installed a patch that my dealer couldn't/wouldn't that fixed it.
* Engine doesn't start properly in my garage during the winter in the morning. This appears to have been fixed by me running a dehumidifier inside my house all winter. Not that I felt I had a damp problem but it did prevent condensation on my double glazing and possibly reduces heating costs. If it also fixes the cold starting problem that's a bonus.
* Door mirrors won't rotate as far as previous models so I can't see rear wheels when reversing. But I'm relying on the reversing camera now.
* Impossible to find a single wiper speed that I can leave the auto wipers set at.
* Door mirrors not always unfolding, or closing unexpectedly - ongoing.
* Loss of spare wheel area for boot storage. Or at least if you do use it you need to reinforce the boot floor.
* The placement of some controls feels odd.

I don't know how much of this is due to the Mk3 production being moved to Japan from the UK but although I'd always prefer to buy a Japanese marque I think I'd prefer that they actually be assembled here. Possibly better quality and might even allow for some UK design input.

How did you find/install the patch for the info unit?  One that that removes the stupid nag screen would be ideal

I got it from somewhere on the XDA forums but it was an official Honda Release rather than a hack anyway.

[andruec]

I must step in and say that i had a honda civic crx in 1990 it was a used 130bhp manual and it had done 60,000 miles when i got it and it was a solid built car and drove like it was fresh out the factory a great car, build quality like shut lines was so tight as well.

Same for my first two Jazz and the two Civics before that. The Mk1 and Mk2 were great - well built and reliable. Also good designs that made me feel at home.

I had 2 Mk2s and I think I'd go along with your feelings. Sometimes it's intangible but the Mk2 seemed to have an intangible coherence of design. Everything seemed in the right place and fit for purpose. There is a bit of a "thrown together" feel about aspects of the Mk3 interior.

It's hard to express what I mean but I guess you feel the same way. I'm happy, overall, with my new car mainly because I've enjoyed changing to an automatic and I sense already that this car will deliver better mpg but has the Jazz lost its soul?

Definitely. With the Mk1 and Mk2 I would describe myself as 'a Honda Jazz driver'. The cars almost felt built for me. With the Mk3 I only describe myself as 'someone who drives a Honda Jazz'. Even after two and a half years the cabin still doesn't feel 'home' to me.

[guest7675]

Whats a bit strange here is if i had a car like your mk3 jazz with the problems you say and do not feel at home with i would not have kept it and be in another make as i did when i found out a ford fiesta xr2i i had bought with only 10,000 on the clock back in 1992 the dealer forgot to give me the handbook and service book when i then contacted the previous owner it turned out it was stolen off his drive and found damaged in a ditch .I contacted the franchised non ford dealer and said i would not have bought it if i had known i then part exchanged it for a daihatsu which was great.

[andruec]

Whats a bit strange here is if i had a car like your mk3 jazz with the problems you say and do not feel at home with i would not have kept it

Meh it's not that bad. And as I've noted it's not easy to find an equivalent vehicle. I've hardly ever felt at home in a car, the Mk1 and Mk2 Jazz were an exception. Most cars are drivable and comfortable to me but to actually feel at home in one is rare.

For the rest so far nothing has actually stopped working (although waiting a minute for the infotainment unit to reboot was irritating). I think a large part of the problem is just how good the previous models were. They were always going to be a difficult to improve on and although overall the Mk3 is the better car it just doesn't have the polish of the older models.