Author Topic: Jazz discs and pads  (Read 2861 times)

Jocko

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2018, 11:31:22 AM »
I wasn't too happy last weekend, somebody no doubt returning from the pub threw a pint guinness glass against the car not denting the bodywork but embedding glass into the paint over a nine or ten inch area. I wasn't a happy bunny!
What a f**kin mess. I hope they fell asleep, threw up, and choked on their own vomit.

desthemoaner

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2018, 01:00:18 PM »
Thanks for the additional info about greasing the sliders, John, and sorry to hear that your car has fallen foul of pondlife. I'd echo Jocko's hope that Karma strikes them sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty good on tools and stuff but have to admit that I've never owned an impact driver. For loosening I'm thinking that the technique is to select the correct bit and fit in driver, set the driver to L, insert bit in screw and then strike with a hammer to loosen. Have I missed anything there?

culzean

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2018, 01:48:11 PM »
Thanks for the additional info about greasing the sliders, John, and sorry to hear that your car has fallen foul of pondlife. I'd echo Jocko's hope that Karma strikes them sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty good on tools and stuff but have to admit that I've never owned an impact driver. For loosening I'm thinking that the technique is to select the correct bit and fit in driver, set the driver to L, insert bit in screw and then strike with a hammer to loosen. Have I missed anything there?

The R and L are a bit confusing - CW and CCW would have been better.

Best way I have found is to fit the bit into driver, put it into screw head and then firmly turn the body of the impact driver the way you want the screw to move, (if it was already in the correct position it will not move,  if it was not it will index to the correct position,  I always try turning the driver body both ways and make sure it indexes to both positions before turning it the way I want it to 'drive') now keep the pressure on the body and hit the end with a 4lb lump hammer. 

I did my discs a few weeks ago and the screws were that tight I had to resort to trying to tighten a couple of them slightly with impact driver before reversing it to unscrew them,  the large contact area of the countersink screw head tends to lock the screw into place.

I have used TRW (a large OEM brake manufacturer as well as other parts) brake grease for a long time on slide pins and seals - the latest one is PFG110   

http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/XZS120GB.pdf

if you buy decent pads they normally include a sachet of high temp molybdenum grease for use on the pad 'ears' where they slide in the caliper, PFG110 is not suitable for that area.

most local auto factors sell both greases,  as well as internet.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 01:55:02 PM by culzean »
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desthemoaner

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2018, 10:18:39 PM »
Many thanks once more. I think I now have all the info I need to crack on with the job.

 Will just pick up a couple of sachets of appropriate grease then off we jolly well pop, probably just as the sun vanishes and the thunderstorms arrive.

desthemoaner

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2018, 07:14:18 PM »
Sorry...one more thing...job is set for Monday.  :D

I've changed discs and pads on several Fords but never on any other make or model.
My usual routine when fitting the new pads has been to crack the reservoir cap before winding back the caliper piston and then removing any excess brake fluid if the level goes above Max.

I know they say you can flip the seals if you don't open a nipple brake nipple and crimp the hose before appling pressure to the piston, but this has never happened to me. What are other folks' thoughts on that risk?

culzean

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2018, 08:40:51 PM »
Sorry...one more thing...job is set for Monday.  :D

I've changed discs and pads on several Fords but never on any other make or model.
My usual routine when fitting the new pads has been to crack the reservoir cap before winding back the caliper piston and then removing any excess brake fluid if the level goes above Max.

I know they say you can flip the seals if you don't open a nipple brake nipple and crimp the hose before appling pressure to the piston, but this has never happened to me. What are other folks' thoughts on that risk?

never opened a nipple or crimped a hose (seems silly to potentially seriously damage a hose by crimping it flat )  just removed the reservoir cap, but keep an eye on the level so it does not overflow,  brake fluid and paint are sworn enemies.  The volume of fluid in rear cylinders is nowhere near the volume of the front ones and it hardly raised the level in reservoir.  The theory is that when new pads fitted all round the brake fluid reservoir should be at 'max' level line and as pads wear it drops to 'min' level line (barring leaks of course).

I use one of these for rear brakes    https://www.lasertools.co.uk/product/1314   make sure the cross grooves in piston face are horizontal and vertical when piston is back,  there is a about a 4mm diameter round boss protruding out of the rear face of the cylinder side brake pad and it has to locate in one of the grooves (presumably to stop the piston rotating) if this does not line up with a groove it will sit on the flat face and put uneven pressure on the cylinder side brake pad,  the audible wear indicator (squeal bracket)  goes at the bottom of the cylinder side pads, otherwise it fouls.   If you find the caliper hard to get clear of the disc and back on again you may have to take a couple of bolts out of the handbrake cable bracket,  I managed OK but it is a bit tight.  Make sure you tighten the caliper mounting bracket fully before fitting the pads and fitting the caliper as the lower bolt (14mm spanner) is partly hidden when you put caliper on,  and if it is unscrewed more than about 2 to 3 mm  it can foul and stop caliper being fitted.   You will need a 17mm open ended spanner to fit over slide pin hex (by the gaiter) to stop slide pin rotating when you unscrew and replace the slide pin retaining bolt (12mm spanner).

You will undoubtedly have to file the ends of the pad 'ears' to get them to slide freely in the caliper, I had to take at least 0,5mm off each end - and plenty of high temp molybdenum  brake grease on the ears.

so you will need 12mm, 14mm and 17mm combination ring / open ended spanner and the brake piston retractor.

good luck 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 08:07:43 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

desthemoaner

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2018, 10:10:36 PM »
Thanks for that detailed and very useful reply, Culzean.
 
I only intend to do the front discs and pads for now, as a brief inspection of the rears whilst one of tyres was being repaired confirmed that they have been done in the last 12 months. So I can concentrate on the front.

I've never owned a purpose made piston retraction tool but have used instead a G-clamp and a block of wood, but thanks for the link to the tool anyhow.

Surprised to hear that you need to shave some of the pad off to make it move freely, but I appreciate the heads up.

culzean

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2018, 08:06:42 AM »
Thanks for that detailed and very useful reply, Culzean.
 
I only intend to do the front discs and pads for now, as a brief inspection of the rears whilst one of tyres was being repaired confirmed that they have been done in the last 12 months. So I can concentrate on the front.

I've never owned a purpose made piston retraction tool but have used instead a G-clamp and a block of wood, but thanks for the link to the tool anyhow.

Surprised to hear that you need to shave some of the pad off to make it move freely, but I appreciate the heads up.

Front pads are a piece of p!55 (scuse my french) compared to rears,  but don't be surprised if you have to file the both the ends and sides of pad 'ears' to get them to move freely,  I have in the past wished I had a bench grinder instead of a hand file  to make the job easier (despite buying OEM Honda pads)  :o  if the pad ears don't a bit of clearance they will undoubtedly bind up in the future due to corrosion and cause hot brakes / unequal pad wear.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2018, 06:53:29 AM »
I changed rear pads in dec 2017 and filed nothing. Easy job.

JohnAlways

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2018, 09:03:45 AM »
I've found removing the paint with a file on the ears (and a tad more) allows the pads free movement and never get a problem with them for 12 months when they get checked and cleaned up or replaced depending on how long they have been in place.
 

Jocko

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2018, 09:47:57 AM »
I changed rear pads in dec 2017 and filed nothing. Easy job.
I have never had to file pads in my life. Clean out the caliper and slide them in.

madasafish

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2018, 12:35:53 PM »
I suppose it depends upon the skill of the mechanic.... :o :o :o :o :D :D :D

(Only joking)

sparky Paul

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2018, 04:53:41 PM »
I changed rear pads in dec 2017 and filed nothing. Easy job.
I have never had to file pads in my life. Clean out the caliper and slide them in.

Same here, and that's the answer. Remove the shims, clean any corrosion from the caliper faces, clean and refit the shims, a smear of your favourite assembly paste and the pads go in easy.

Not a bad MOT the other week, fail on offside headlamp aim and number plate bulb, sorted on the spot.

Also an advise on a slight bind on one of the rear brakes at MOT time turned out to be pads wedged solid, so tight I had to drift them out. Cleaned the calipers properly, and the pads slip back in nicely. Other side was very nearly as bad.

Another 12 months worry-free motoring!  8)

Jocko

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2018, 05:01:17 PM »
Another 12 months worry-free motoring!  8)
Always a great feeling.

culzean

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Re: Jazz discs and pads
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2018, 06:10:50 PM »
I changed rear pads in dec 2017 and filed nothing. Easy job.
I have never had to file pads in my life. Clean out the caliper and slide them in.

Same here, and that's the answer. Remove the shims, clean any corrosion from the caliper faces, clean and refit the shims, a smear of your favourite assembly paste and the pads go in easy.

Also an advise on a slight bind on one of the rear brakes at MOT time turned out to be pads wedged solid, so tight I had to drift them out. Cleaned the calipers properly, and the pads slip back in nicely. Other side was very nearly as bad.


The whole idea of relieving the ears is that they do not bind up after a period of use, and the pads wear out before you need to take brakes apart and bash them out with a hammer and remedy the clearance.  I know the difference between an interference fit and a clearance fit and pretty much every pad I have ever fitted has been too tight to even go into caliper jaws without at least half a mm removed, let alone make any attempt to slide. This is even after calipers cleaned and new shims - more surprising as majority of pads have been Honda, with new shims and bolts and sachet of moly grease supplied.

Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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