Author Topic: My New MK3 Jazz  (Read 1577 times)

dogbiscuit

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My New MK3 Jazz
« on: April 18, 2018, 08:51:52 PM »
I've now owned my manual 2018 Jazz SE for 3 months and driven 2500 miles in it so it's time to pen a short review of the car.
 
Let me start by saying I wanted to like this car after my disappointment with the MK2 especially regarding the plastic interior and distracting reflection of the dashboard in the windscreen.
 
Thankfully dashboard reflection has been reduced significantly in the MK3 and I don't have to resort to my Polaroid's as often. Also in my opinion the interior has a better quality feel to it and I like the interior styling. Well done Honda for these improvements.
 
It is nice to see the small light that illuminates the front of the centre console has made a return after its absence from the MK2. It's just a shame it wasn't positioned better to illuminate the accessory sockets.

The rear under seat storage has disappeared but there is the gain of a very useful centre console compartment.

I like the auto lights feature and the high beam function. I didn't think I would like this level of automation but I do. I'm less impressed with the auto windscreen wipers and the auto stop-start that is regularly disabled.
 
I really donít understand why the petrol door release has moved to an awkward to reach position next to the bonnet release Ė what was wrong with the MK2 petrol door release. On the positive side the flap opens much wider making the car easier to fill with fuel.
 
Something else I donít understand is the loss of the under boot floor storage. This was a marketing point with the MK2 so why has it now been lost to a large piece of polystyrene and a flimsy boot floor lid that requires the polystyrene filler for support.

If the boot floor had been a bit sturdier the polystyrene could have been removed and the space utilised either for more storage or a spare wheel. I really donít understand why Honda appears to make these penny pinching decisions resulting in the loss of a beneficial feature.

I have had a quick look under the bonnet and it looks like the spark plugs are a lot more accessible. Hopefully a spark plug change will be less expensive as the removal of the wiper motor assembly will no longer be required.
 
The road handling of the MK3 seems perfectly acceptable - possibly better than the MK2. It is too early to tell whether the new engine is any better or worse than my previous Jazz. I have noticed that the turning circle is not as good as the MK2 and I have been caught out a couple of times.

I donít know whether my car is a bad example but the gearbox feels quite notchy and selecting 1st can be a bit awkward sometimes.  I found the MK2 gearbox very slick and pleasant to use.

I had my Swindon built MK2 Jazz for over 7 years and it only went to the dealer for servicing. My Japanese built MK3 has been back to the dealer for 3 days to fix faults that would have been there at delivery. These faults havenít been fixed Ė being intermittent they are just too difficult for the dealer with help from Honda UK technical to track down and remedy.
   
I have parking sensors that fail to activate occasionally with the need to switch the ignition off and on again to get them to work again. Now and again the car does not start first time - the engine turns over but fails to fire. Not impressive for a new car let alone a new Honda.
   
With these unfixable faults I donít think I could recommend the new MK3 Jazz to anyone.



Dayjo

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 10:09:30 PM »
Hmmm....... Thanks for the resume. And, the final, no confidence line.

My brand new, EX Navi, arrived today........  ::)
David.
Drive them until the roads wear out.......

MicktheMonster

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 01:12:37 AM »
I got a new 1.3S at the end of January, absolutely no issues with it, as it's an S model it doesn't have a crazy amount of equipment on it to go wrong.
I would agree the gearbox is a bit notchy but it's early days so it will hopefully loosen up a little with some miles on it. I've never even sat in a mk2 so cant compare but it is massive improvement over my mk1 as you would expect.
It has been 100% reliable so far (about 1500 miles), the only cheap-skating I was a bit dissapointed with was that the mirrors are electrically adjustable but not heated, as I sometimes use it early in the morning it was a bit of a nuisance in the freezing weather, not really a deal breaker in the big scheme of things.
I also agree the auto headlights are a good feature and work particularly well.
No gremlins so far.

andruec

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 09:56:39 AM »
Definitely agree about the poor boot of the Mk3 - it's a major annoyance for me and I've often posted about it here. I actually need that underfloor storage (golf trolley wheels, shoes and spare golf balls) and with the weight of the rest of my golfing equipment in the main compartment I have to use a piece of MDF to support the floor. I was so disgusted that I scrawled 'Thanks Honda' on it with a marker pen.

Also agree that the auto wipers are not as good on the Mk3. On my Mk2 I could set the speed and forget about it. With the Mk3 I keep having to adjust the speed while driving along.

And yes, the fuel cap lever position is a silly and inconvenient change.

It's a pity about the sensor fault and I used to have a problem with engine starting in winter (curiously not a problem this time around).

I also don't think the infotainment unit is all it could have been but at least it seems you've been spared the hell of the 'won't boot up on startup' that so many of us had to put up with.

I also don't think the touch screen controls for climate control are a very good idea.

But what don't you like about the idle stop feature? It seems a shame for you to be constantly disabling it. It almost never causes me any problems and whilst it probably isn't saving fuel or reducing pollution by huge amounts it is helping. My only gripe with it is one you won't have in that on the CVT version you have to keep the foot brake pressed at all times to keep the engine off.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 10:32:32 AM by andruec »

Downsizer

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 02:23:26 PM »
Re Dogbuiscuits unfixable faults, there has been lengthy discussion elsewhere about starting difficulty, which is sometimes attributed to fuel flooding following repeated starts in a short time with the engine still cold.  The answer seems to be to floor the accelerator and use the starter once, which clears the flooding.  Someone who has experienced this may like to comment with more authority than me.

When the parking sensors fail to function, is the light on the sensor switch lit (to the right of the steering column, low down)?

donerkebab

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 02:50:01 PM »
Re Dogbuiscuits unfixable faults, there has been lengthy discussion elsewhere about starting difficulty, which is sometimes attributed to fuel flooding following repeated starts in a short time with the engine still cold.  The answer seems to be to floor the accelerator and use the starter once, which clears the flooding.  Someone who has experienced this may like to comment with more authority than me.

When the parking sensors fail to function, is the light on the sensor switch lit (to the right of the steering column, low down)?

I hit the switches with my knee then spent half a day trying to work out why all the sensors stopped working. ;)

Flooring the accelerator does would be acceptable fix for something as reliable as a Jazz.

peteo48

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 05:54:56 PM »


But what don't you like about the idle stop feature? It seems a shame for you to be constantly disabling it. It almost never causes me any problems and whilst it probably isn't saving fuel or reducing pollution by huge amounts it is helping. My only gripe with it is one you won't have in that on the CVT version you have to keep the foot brake pressed at all times to keep the engine off.

The only annoyance with the idle stop feature from my point of view is when you pull into the drive, depress the brake thereby cutting off the engine only for it to start again as you go into park and take your foot off the brake.

I've solved this by turning it off as I approach my drive or any other situation where I am going to park. It's second nature to me now and I agree that the fuel and air pollution savings may be small but they are worthwhile.

andruec

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 09:04:26 PM »


But what don't you like about the idle stop feature? It seems a shame for you to be constantly disabling it. It almost never causes me any problems and whilst it probably isn't saving fuel or reducing pollution by huge amounts it is helping. My only gripe with it is one you won't have in that on the CVT version you have to keep the foot brake pressed at all times to keep the engine off.

The only annoyance with the idle stop feature from my point of view is when you pull into the drive, depress the brake thereby cutting off the engine only for it to start again as you go into park and take your foot off the brake.

I've solved this by turning it off as I approach my drive or any other situation where I am going to park. It's second nature to me now and I agree that the fuel and air pollution savings may be small but they are worthwhile.
I've just learnt how much pressure it takes to trigger idle stop. You can bring the car to a halt and hold it there without idle stop triggering by just not not using full pressure. The other issue some people have is with it cutting out at roundabouts - the solution there is just to get better at understanding traffic flow so that you don't have to actually stop unless you really need to.

John Ratsey

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 10:29:30 PM »
The only annoyance with the idle stop feature from my point of view is when you pull into the drive, depress the brake thereby cutting off the engine only for it to start again as you go into park and take your foot off the brake.

I've solved this by turning it off as I approach my drive or any other situation where I am going to park. It's second nature to me now and I agree that the fuel and air pollution savings may be small but they are worthwhile.
My fix for this problem is to turn off the ignition before moving the gearshift out of D and taking my foot off the brake pedal.

t5nel

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 10:50:46 PM »
I really question the benefit of the stop start function vs very short periods of idling.  I am pretty sure that, on startup, the emissions are worse (unburnt HC) and that the subsequent requirement to charge the battery will put further load (and therefore requirements for fuel) on the engine.  Of course there will be a point where it is more economical / friendly to kill the engine but I think stop/start is a pretty blunt tool for this so I typically disable it.

I am pretty sure that the main reason it is in there is to 'game' the urban fuel consumption as the test cycle includes a large amount of idling where the engine is effectively switched off for an extended period.

Tim

culzean

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 08:02:52 AM »
I really question the benefit of the stop start function vs very short periods of idling.  I am pretty sure that, on startup, the emissions are worse (unburnt HC) and that the subsequent requirement to charge the battery will put further load (and therefore requirements for fuel) on the engine.  Of course there will be a point where it is more economical / friendly to kill the engine but I think stop/start is a pretty blunt tool for this so I typically disable it.

I am pretty sure that the main reason it is in there is to 'game' the urban fuel consumption as the test cycle includes a large amount of idling where the engine is effectively switched off for an extended period.

Tim

I'm afraid that pressure and legislation from clueless politicians (driven by political expediency) forces engineers to do the wrong thing (from an engineering point of view) - such as promoting diesels as 'clean' because they are low CO2 (the Europeans pushed Diesel but the Japs knew Diesel was inherently dirty and would hit a brick wall on the emissions ) and ignoring all the other cr4p that pours out of their tailpipes.   Stop-start is another thing,  it takes no heed of the longevity of the engine and other parts of the car - just the fraction of a % 'saving' in fuel and urban emissions.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

t5nel

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2018, 08:33:30 AM »
I'm afraid that pressure and legislation from clueless politicians (driven by political expediency) forces engineers to do the wrong thing (from an engineering point of view) - such as promoting diesels as 'clean' because they are low CO2 (the Europeans pushed Diesel but the Japs knew Diesel was inherently dirty and would hit a brick wall on the emissions ) and ignoring all the other cr4p that pours out of their tailpipes.   Stop-start is another thing,  it takes no heed of the longevity of the engine and other parts of the car - just the fraction of a % 'saving' in fuel and urban emissions.

I expect you could make a similar case that the use of 0W20 oils would not be the engineers choice for ultimate engine longevity.  I believe the use of these is more to do with reduced engine friction leading to very small efficiency gains (therefore lower CO2 etc) in controlled testing rather than a requirement for thinner oil due to tighter manufacturing tolerance.


culzean

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2018, 08:39:32 AM »
I'm afraid that pressure and legislation from clueless politicians (driven by political expediency) forces engineers to do the wrong thing (from an engineering point of view) - such as promoting diesels as 'clean' because they are low CO2 (the Europeans pushed Diesel but the Japs knew Diesel was inherently dirty and would hit a brick wall on the emissions ) and ignoring all the other cr4p that pours out of their tailpipes.   Stop-start is another thing,  it takes no heed of the longevity of the engine and other parts of the car - just the fraction of a % 'saving' in fuel and urban emissions.

I expect you could make a similar case that the use of 0W20 oils would not be the engineers choice for ultimate engine longevity.  I believe the use of these is more to do with reduced engine friction leading to very small efficiency gains (therefore lower CO2 etc) in controlled testing rather than a requirement for thinner oil due to tighter manufacturing tolerance.

Agreed, I never use less than 5W30 oil,  my motorbike (with its water cooled highly stressed close tolerance engine) requires 10W40. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 08:56:20 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2018, 09:04:22 AM »
I really question the benefit of the stop start function vs very short periods of idling.  I am pretty sure that, on startup, the emissions are worse (unburnt HC) and that the subsequent requirement to charge the battery will put further load (and therefore requirements for fuel) on the engine.  Of course there will be a point where it is more economical / friendly to kill the engine but I think stop/start is a pretty blunt tool for this so I typically disable it.

I am pretty sure that the main reason it is in there is to 'game' the urban fuel consumption as the test cycle includes a large amount of idling where the engine is effectively switched off for an extended period.

Tim
It's a bit of both. There have been several independent studies that suggest idle stop typically reduces overall fuel consumption between 5% and 10% depending on the vehicle and the type of driving. As far as the cost of recharging the battery is concerned that is minimal. Don't forget that the engine starts within a quarter of a second so the starter motor barely nudges the engine. The same studies typically suggest that the engine only has to be off for two to three seconds for stopping it to be worthwhile. Or put another way - three seconds of idling burns as much fuel as it takes to replace the battery charge lost by idle restart.

I'm not sure about it being fair to be harsh with manufacturers. I've now found a few articles that suggest that idling and stopping aren't that big a part of the testing so an I/S system doesn't sound like it would have much effect. But either way I wouldn't call it gaming the system since it's a pretty obvious feature. Overall is I/S worth it to us as drivers? I dunno. Given the extra cost of R&D and manufacturing costs I bet there's not a lot in it. But having bought a car with I/S it seems silly not to utilise it. Even if the end result is a greater cost to us at least using it will reduce that cost.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

And a final note: A competent driver that fully understands how to engage the system or how to avoid it engaging whilst still bringing the vehicle to a halt and who can anticipate traffic flow and when best to stop and hold for several seconds or when to move slowly so as to avoid stopping or to fit into a gap will get even more out of the system.

For sure anyone who keeps finding that the engine is off when they need to pull away ought to brush up on their driving skills. That ought to be a rare occurence as it is the result of failing to correctly anticipate. It happens to me perhaps two or three times a year, usually at a roundabout when someone looks like they are coming past my exit but suddenly change their minds and leave early.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 09:10:09 AM by andruec »

peteo48

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Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2018, 10:19:55 AM »
Some good responses. Grateful for the advice about coming to a stop - obvious really! I agree that, as you get used to the system, you can finesse your pressure on the brake pedal especially at roundabouts and, in time, get quite good at not triggering the idle stop in these situations.

As regards engine wear, I realise these systems are relatively new but is there any evidence of premature wear. The battery and the starter are uprated and not all the oil will have drained back down into the sump - there will still be a protective covering - it's not like starting from cold every time.

For me, the CO2 stuff is secondary (we need to reduce CO2 but these systems are not a game changer), the real impact is in emissions at pavement level so I think they have a role to play in improving air quality.

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