Author Topic: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?  (Read 1270 times)

Molly

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2018, 05:37:29 PM »
That does make a lot of sense what a great explanation.

Jocko

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2018, 05:49:07 PM »
I know longer use this forum, but I have been asked by a member to comment on your problem. I tried sending a PM but you apparently do not allow them.
I have just had the very same noise, as your video clip shows, fixed, by having the gearbox bearings replaced. The way to check the input shaft bearing is, with the engine running and the car in neutral and stationary, depress and release the clutch pedal. If the noise is there with the pedal released and goes away when the pedal is depressed then it is the input shaft bearing which is faulty. The only part of the gearbox which is rotating at this time is the input shaft. This is a common fault with GD models of the Jazz. I was assured that it gets worse but does not lead to a transmission failure. I ran mine for several thousand miles before the noise became unbearable. At first it only seemed to be noticeable in first gear, but then started to make its presence felt further and further up the gears. Sometimes it would disappear completely for 20 or 30 seconds (which was even more worrying!).
I got quotes from a garage who had a Honda trained mechanic and from a couple of transmission specialists. The Honda mechanic said the box had to come out and be stripped on the bench, at a cost to repair of 1000. The transmission specialist who did the job said they could do it in place at a cost, including all seals and bearings (he said it was pointless stripping it down and only replacing the input shaft bearing), of 324. The car is now like a new vehicle.
I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.
You mention the release bearing. The release bearing only makes a noise as you first start to depress the pedal and goes away once pressure is applied. It is quiet with the pedal released (I did a huge amount of research, as you may gather).
As I said earlier, I no longer follow this site, but if you have any further questions or comments, for me, personally, you can PM me. The administrator sends a copy of any PMs to my personal email account

kennethkeller

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2018, 06:31:53 PM »
I know longer use this forum, but I have been asked by a member to comment on your problem. I tried sending a PM but you apparently do not allow them.
I have just had the very same noise, as your video clip shows, fixed, by having the gearbox bearings replaced. The way to check the input shaft bearing is, with the engine running and the car in neutral and stationary, depress and release the clutch pedal. If the noise is there with the pedal released and goes away when the pedal is depressed then it is the input shaft bearing which is faulty. The only part of the gearbox which is rotating at this time is the input shaft. This is a common fault with GD models of the Jazz. I was assured that it gets worse but does not lead to a transmission failure. I ran mine for several thousand miles before the noise became unbearable. At first it only seemed to be noticeable in first gear, but then started to make its presence felt further and further up the gears. Sometimes it would disappear completely for 20 or 30 seconds (which was even more worrying!).
I got quotes from a garage who had a Honda trained mechanic and from a couple of transmission specialists. The Honda mechanic said the box had to come out and be stripped on the bench, at a cost to repair of 1000. The transmission specialist who did the job said they could do it in place at a cost, including all seals and bearings (he said it was pointless stripping it down and only replacing the input shaft bearing), of 324. The car is now like a new vehicle.
I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.
You mention the release bearing. The release bearing only makes a noise as you first start to depress the pedal and goes away once pressure is applied. It is quiet with the pedal released (I did a huge amount of research, as you may gather).
As I said earlier, I no longer follow this site, but if you have any further questions or comments, for me, personally, you can PM me. The administrator sends a copy of any PMs to my personal email account
I will diagnose as outlined, the report back. I am in Switzerland and refuse to pay Swiss prices for the work. If I have to buy tools to get it done, I'd rather pay myself and learn something.

Thank you again. Will follow up tomorrow.

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kennethkeller

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2018, 06:35:48 PM »
I know longer use this forum, but I have been asked by a member to comment on your problem. I tried sending a PM but you apparently do not allow them.
I have just had the very same noise, as your video clip shows, fixed, by having the gearbox bearings replaced. The way to check the input shaft bearing is, with the engine running and the car in neutral and stationary, depress and release the clutch pedal. If the noise is there with the pedal released and goes away when the pedal is depressed then it is the input shaft bearing which is faulty. The only part of the gearbox which is rotating at this time is the input shaft. This is a common fault with GD models of the Jazz. I was assured that it gets worse but does not lead to a transmission failure. I ran mine for several thousand miles before the noise became unbearable. At first it only seemed to be noticeable in first gear, but then started to make its presence felt further and further up the gears. Sometimes it would disappear completely for 20 or 30 seconds (which was even more worrying!).
I got quotes from a garage who had a Honda trained mechanic and from a couple of transmission specialists. The Honda mechanic said the box had to come out and be stripped on the bench, at a cost to repair of 1000. The transmission specialist who did the job said they could do it in place at a cost, including all seals and bearings (he said it was pointless stripping it down and only replacing the input shaft bearing), of 324. The car is now like a new vehicle.
I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.
You mention the release bearing. The release bearing only makes a noise as you first start to depress the pedal and goes away once pressure is applied. It is quiet with the pedal released (I did a huge amount of research, as you may gather).
As I said earlier, I no longer follow this site, but if you have any further questions or comments, for me, personally, you can PM me. The administrator sends a copy of any PMs to my personal email account
I will diagnose as outlined, the report back. I am in Switzerland and refuse to pay Swiss prices for the work. If I have to buy tools to get it done, I'd rather pay myself and learn something.

Thank you again. Will follow up tomorrow.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Just checked... My PM is set to "All Members", don't know why it's not working.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


sparky Paul

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2018, 10:38:32 PM »
I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.

I would think that the garage Jocko used would probably have done the first few by the traditional route, i.e. removing the gearbox and splitting it on the bench, before realising they could do them in situ, and devising a system to do so.

Unless you understand how these gearboxes come apart, or are willing to take the risk of writing the gearbox off, I would think a DIYer would probably be best served by going down the the gearbox removal route. At least you would have it on the bench, you could see what you are doing, and there's the added advantage that you can check the condition of the clutch while the gearbox is off.

kennethkeller

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2018, 10:47:51 PM »
I think I'll pull it to see what's going on. Apparently, the Jazz is notorious for bearings going out in the gearbox... somewhere they thought it's because they use round bearings and not rollers.

Anyway... another reason i would want to pull the whole thing is because, it may not just be the input shaft bearing, the whole gearbox may need new bearings.... lol. I found a few video's (link's below) that indicate that it may not ONLY be the input shaft bearing. I wonder if there is a way to tell before cracking it open. It would be great to order the parts needed while i get her opened up...



sparky Paul

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2018, 10:16:56 AM »
Any noise which relates to engine speed is probably input shaft, if it relates to road speed you are more likely looking at output shaft or differential bearings. Once the gearbox is off, you'll probably be able to hear and feel the input shaft bearings if you spin the input shaft by hand.

Input shaft bearings are the ones which usually go on the Jazz, but if you are going to the trouble of splitting the gearbox and intend keeping the car for a while, I would say it would make sense to do all the bearings and oil seals. Input shaft bearings and seals is about 25-30, whilst a full gearbox kit is approx. 70. If you intend selling the car in the near future, just do the input shaft.  ;)

There are quite a bit of information and videos about regarding splitting these gearboxes, look for Civic gearboxes too as they had the same gearbox fitted, with the same weaknesses.

kennethkeller

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2018, 10:34:22 AM »
Any noise which relates to engine speed is probably input shaft, if it relates to road speed you are more likely looking at output shaft or differential bearings. Once the gearbox is off, you'll probably be able to hear and feel the input shaft bearings if you spin the input shaft by hand.

Input shaft bearings are the ones which usually go on the Jazz, but if you are going to the trouble of splitting the gearbox and intend keeping the car for a while, I would say it would make sense to do all the bearings and oil seals. Input shaft bearings and seals is about 25-30, whilst a full gearbox kit is approx. 70. If you intend selling the car in the near future, just do the input shaft.  ;)

There are quite a bit of information and videos about regarding splitting these gearboxes, look for Civic gearboxes too as they had the same gearbox fitted, with the same weaknesses.
I'll be coming and going from the US to Europe off and on for the next 5 years at least. I just got married to a Swiss :)

So, my intention is to keep it. Other than that, it's fascinating to learn how the gearbox works and instead of paying someone to do it, I can spend the money building up my tools here.

Anyway... I'm going to order some tools and a bearing kit to do all the bearings. I have a P.O. Box in Germany to receive my orders... do you happen to know of any kit suppliers in Germany? I'm only finding suppliers in the UK.

Also, any other supplies to gather specific to this job that you would recommend? Gaskets, puller, circlip pliers, etc... ?

Ken

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sparky Paul

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2018, 11:50:54 AM »
Anyway... I'm going to order some tools and a bearing kit to do all the bearings. I have a P.O. Box in Germany to receive my orders... do you happen to know of any kit suppliers in Germany? I'm only finding suppliers in the UK.

Also, any other supplies to gather specific to this job that you would recommend? Gaskets, puller, circlip pliers, etc... ?

No idea about German suppliers, but I doubt you will have any problem with the ebay sellers shipping over to Germany. So long as the bearings are SKF/FAG/NTN/Timken etc., they should be fine.

I have never done anything with a Jazz gearbox, but from the drawings and the internet videos, they look like a straightforward gearbox to split. Obviously, having access to a good workshop with a hydraulic press, bearing pullers, oil seal drivers, etc. is ideal, but you can improvise in most areas. What is important is a good clean working area that is large enough so that you can lay everything out in some sort of order. You should be able to pick up tips regarding specialist tools, gasket materials, etc., from internet videos, or from the relevant section of the workshop manual - but remember that you are only swapping the bearings from the ends of the shafts.

http://www.hondafitjazz.com/transmission_manual.html

In addition, you may or may not need some way of heating up parts you have to remove. It may be possible to manage without, but you will only find out when you actually get into it, and heat will make any difficult bearings pull easily. Ideally, you need something hotter than a plumbing type blowtorch, something that will get the old bearing races cherry red, such as oxy-acetylene, oxy-propane, or mapp gas torch.

kennethkeller

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Re: Help please... Input shaft bearings or?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2018, 01:50:11 PM »
So... to follow up. It was the input shaft bearing. Video link below. I'm taking photo or video requests for the next day while i have this open...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/20oa413g9sya3pi/20180415_143436.mp4?dl=0

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