Clunking noise / clutch judder in 1st and reverse when cold

[guest5305]

Hello all!

I recently bought a 2004 1.4 SE Jazz (mint opal green  ), three days after passing my driving test - my first car! I've been very pleased with the Jazz but have recently noticed something that I'd really appreciate advice on. I'm a complete car novice so I have no sense if this is something to worry about or not!

The past few days have been fairly cold and, on starting the car and getting it out of my parking space, both in reverse and 1st gear, I've noticed a "clunking" - this isn't just a sound, I can feel it through the clutch pedal as well. It seems to mainly happen when steering sharply. It only seems to happen in the first few seconds after starting up - by the time I'm 50 metres down the road it has stopped and the problem doesn't reoccur when maneuvring slowly in a low gear at the other end of my daily journey. I haven't yet noticed it when starting the car up in the evenings.

Is this something anyone else has encountered? Is it some problem with cold fluid somewhere in the system (clutch fluid)? What sort of things should I be checking myself? Could it be something to do with the way I am driving / controlling the clutch (this is entirely possible!) and if so what should I try doing to correct it?

I'd be very grateful for any thoughts or advice! 

[guest4283]

I'm no mechanic but it sounds like some part of the clutch is worn out.

Does it make a noise when you just depress and then release the clutch pedal without touching the gearstick?
Current mileage ?
Do you find the clutch slipping when driving (engine speed increases without an increase in vehicle speed)?
Is taking the car back to wherever you bought it not an option?

You should always start a manual car in neutral with the clutch pedal depressed and then release it. This won't solve your current problem, but is less stressful for the mechanics this way.

[guest4078]

Congratulations on passing your test and getting a great car.
Why don't you try letting it idle for a minute before driving off, that way you will see if it is just the cold spell you are experiencing that is causing it. Yours is an older car, so bits will be a bit worn anyway, and as we all get older we get a bit clunky!
If it is cold here, my handbrake sticks and I get a 'jolt' when I reverse off the driveway. Only happens on occasion, but sounds and feels bad, unless you have experienced it before.
Monitor how it goes and let us know what happens.

[culzean]

If it is worse with the steering hard over it could be CV joint - although I think Honda CV joints don't give many problems.  Could also be a suspension or shock absorber bush, or the rubber bush in an engine / transmission mounting given way.  Sometimes loose or perished shock absorber mounts can cause clunking,  but that would happen when you went over bump in the road as well, not just pulling away.

Could be handbrake sticking on a bit overnight - with discs and pads they tend to get rusty pretty quick and in cold weather any moisture on pads or brakeshoes can freeze.

Is it possible to park with front wheels straight and drive away without having to put steering hard over ?  that may narrow it down a bit.

[guest5305]

Thanks all!

The mileage is just over 92,000.

I'm fairly confident the clutch isn't slipping in normal driving, though I have been stalling a lot lately (but I suspect this is driver error - learnt on a diesel which I found more forgiving for slow maneuvres!).

I'll try idling before setting off and I'll be leaving a bit later today so it may not be as cold. Every morning I've driven it so far it's had blue thermometer warning light but my understanding was that as long as you didn't drive the car "hard" whilst it was on it was fine to drive - but if that's not correct I'm happy to adapt what I do.

Getting out of the parking space near my house involves three stages - driving about 6m straight off my space, then reversing whilst turning 90 degrees, then another 90 degree turn driving forwards. The clunking doesn't seem to happen when driving straight - just when turning. But it does only happen in those first 60 seconds or so - once at a roundabout at the end of the village maybe half a minute away the steering etc is fine.

[guest4283]

Clunking post...
http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3a785addc6a84753cb5f9db7eafea371&topic=6753.0

Seems similar to what you have?

[guest5305]

It does sound similar! I'll keep an eye on as someone has recently asked the original poster whether they figured the problem out...

When you say you should start the car with the clutch pedal depressed - why is this? Wouldn't starting it in neutral (without depressing the pedal) do effectively the same thing?

[guest4675]

It does sound similar! I'll keep an eye on as someone has recently asked the original poster whether they figured the problem out...

When you say you should start the car with the clutch pedal depressed - why is this? Wouldn't starting it in neutral (without depressing the pedal) do effectively the same thing?

The reason for pressing the clutch down to start the car was to assist the starter motor to turn the flywheel without the excess pressure of the clutch mechanism which weighs quite alot. While the clutch is depressed the clutch is disconnected from the flywheel and takes less strain from the battery to start the car by not having to turn the clutch as well.

[guest4078]

Blue thermometer icon is normal, depending how cold the weather is mine lasts on for about a quarter to a mile at the start of the journey. It is just telling you the coolant isn't yet up to temp. So you are correct be kind to the engine and don't hammer it when cold.

[culzean]

When you say you should start the car with the clutch pedal depressed - why is this? Wouldn't starting it in neutral (without depressing the pedal) do effectively the same thing?

The main thing about pressing clutch pedal is that it disconnects the engine from the gearbox and the starter is not trying to turn the gears as well as the engine (some gears are still rotating even with gearbox in neutral, and in days gone by when thick Extreme Pressure oil was used in gearboxes the extra drag could be considerable, especially in Winter when oil thickened up to consistency off thick treacle ).  Not such a problem now with much thinner 'fuel saving'  gearbox oils.

I used to press clutch while starting in winter,  but have got out of habit now because engine seems to turn over fine anyway,  it may help a little if your battery is failing and be enough to make difference if it's borderline.

[guest4283]

I don't want to come over all 'bible' quoting but on page 247 of the owner's manual (first time I looked at this page) it says to do the clutch pedal depression procedure on start up.

[culzean]

I don't have problem with pressing in clutch when starting, as I said I used to do it, especially in winter.  It may even be a bit of a safety thing for when car is not in neutral when you try to start it, and can save strain / damage to starter motor from trying to move the car with handbrake on.  But on the other hand if car is not in neutral you may have a shock when you loose clutch when engine is running - best thing that can happen is that engine stalls, worst thing is that car moves and hits something.

[guest4078]

Last car I regularly started 'clutch down' was my Xantia TD during colder months, many years ago. It can be a lifesaver method if battery is weak though.

Has OP got to the bottom of thir problem yet?

[guest5305]

Haven't got the bottom of the problem, no - though the car is due a service in about a week. It's also going into Honda in a couple of days for some overdue recalls that the previous owners didn't follow up on, so I'll mention it to them. That said I haven't noticed it so much as the weather warms up.

With a service on an old Jazz, is it worth it taking it directly to Honda, or would any (reputable) garage be fine? I've noticed that Honda seem to be a fair bit more expensive for the same list of checks etc than non-Honda garages.