Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 => Topic started by: Geertz on March 12, 2018, 08:16:03 AM

Title: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Geertz on March 12, 2018, 08:16:03 AM
Hi there,
I'm considering buying a Honda jazz because it seems the most practical for size in its class.  How do people find the dsi engine vs the newer Vtec engine? Does it have enough power for lots of Hill starts as I live in Sheffield this is a concern.  How are there any maintenance trade offs between the mk1s and mk2s? And how about fuel efficiency,  is there a big difference there?  Also what's a reasonable price for a 2008 mk1 with 40k miles in good nick?

Sorry for all of the questions.  This is my first car and it's because we have a little one on the way so I feel like I'm out of my depth.

Cheers.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: auntyneddy on March 12, 2018, 09:25:00 AM
We have a 2010 EX with Ishift. There is considerable apathy shown towards the I shift but I have no problems with it except the difference between 1st and 2nd gear and this is the same problem with the manual box on a MK2 so you will notice that. As to the IVtec engine, there are many that say the Mk1 engine is more flexible but not having driven one I cannot comment BUT I will argue with those that keep saying the I Vtec engine doesn't come into its own until higher revs.
I have never found the engine sluggish at lower revs and at 2500 to 3000 revs it will go like a scalded cat. What you do have to do is use the gears, it is no good slogging along.
I hope it might help BUT I repeat myself I have never found our car sluggish.
Good luck, unfortunately pricing is a problem due to the amazing variation from vendor to vendor. Recently looked at a 2014 and the price difference was in the region of £1500 for apparently similar cars. Ask around about garages, my experience with a main dealer was not good others not so. Sometimes an independent will give a better deal.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: badgerdisco on March 12, 2018, 09:42:20 AM
Having been to see a couple at garages, I'd really advise a preference for finding a decent private buy. I went to look at one at the weekend and the engine was piping hot, it had scuffed wheels that had been painted over, and a brand new number plate and some very new looking panels - I suspect it had been crashed. Potentially sitting around and they started it up just in case, but I walked away.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: culzean on March 12, 2018, 09:57:13 AM
As to the IVtec engine, there are many that say the Mk1 engine is more flexible but not having driven one I cannot comment BUT I will argue with those that keep saying the I Vtec engine doesn't come into its own until higher revs.
I have never found the engine sluggish at lower revs and at 2500 to 3000 revs it will go like a scalded cat. What you do have to do is use the gears, it is no good slogging along.


IMHO having owned both I-DSi and iVTEC,   the IDSi is better suited to 95% of the things a Jazz normally does (Urban driving).  I never stalled an IDSi but did several times in the i-VTEC,  it just needs more revs to pull away, and the jump from first to second can be downright embarrassing if you try to change up early on a slope.  People say IDSi is no good on motorway but I did many thousands of motorway miles without any concerns.

I really think iVTEC is pretty pants below 3000 revs, is just about adequate but no more,  sure it has power higher up but most of the Jazz owning demographic (like her indoors) will not rev it much above 2500 most of the time.

On the other hand the 1.8 i-VTEC in the Civic is boootifull.... (also has a six speed box with well spaced ratios)
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: culzean on March 12, 2018, 10:03:47 AM
Having been to see a couple at garages, I'd really advise a preference for finding a decent private buy. I went to look at one at the weekend and the engine was piping hot, it had scuffed wheels that had been painted over, and a brand new number plate and some very new looking panels - I suspect it had been crashed. Potentially sitting around and they started it up just in case, but I walked away.

Problem is with private sale it is a case of 'sold as seen' and no legal comeback without taking private action via small claims court, once the seller has your money it's bye-bye.   Caveat Emptor.  Personally I have always used reputable dealers, Either Brindley Honda or J T Hughes in our neck of the woods,  I know it costs you more but you do have a lot of backup and legal protection.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Jocko on March 12, 2018, 10:23:01 AM
I have the 1.2 i-DSi and I love it. It is an incredibly flexible wee engine. On a flat road it will pull from 25 mph in 5th and just an hour ago I was driving on a flat road, in 5th, at 30 mph, with a cold engine, and my ScanGauge was indicating 68 mpg! I have never had problems with a hill start, anywhere, and there are plenty steep hills here in Scotland.
I opted for the 1.2 for the slightly cheaper Excise duty. I have owned it for almost two years, maintenance has not been a problem and the figure beside my avatar shows the average mpg over that time. Most of my journeys are short trips, in town, engine cold, as I take my wife to and pick her up from work. I normally sit around 60 on motorways, but it will do 70 with no stress. I find the loudest thing at those speeds is tyre noise.
Listen carefully to the gearbox on any car you go to look at. With engine running and in neutral there should be no difference in noise between clutch up or down. If it is noisy with the clutch up the input bearings are shot. I just had my gearbox rebuilt, but it cost £324, so be aware.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Geertz on March 12, 2018, 10:43:54 AM
Thanks for the replies! I just got to work and had a read through. I was also wondering about the automatic CVT gearbox. My wife is interested in driving an automatic these days.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: VicW on March 12, 2018, 01:15:09 PM
You will have no problems with the CVT gearbox although it does require an oil change at 25K or two years.
On price, local to me in a Honda dealer there is a Sept 1958 Jazz SE CVT with 50K miles and full history going for £4500. This is one of the last of the i-DSI engined cars.

Vic.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: MikeG1944 on March 12, 2018, 02:38:35 PM
Sept 1958 Jazz SE CVT? Think you mean 2008 Vic!

Think £4500 is a little steep, Mine bought nearly 2 years ago from a main dealer with 64K on the clock was over £1K cheaper.

Mike.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: MikeG1944 on March 12, 2018, 02:44:27 PM
Geertz; I have the 2008 CVT and wouldn't have a manual again. So much easier if you need urban driving in big towns; not gears to worry about. Cruises on a motoway OK too. :)

Mike.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Geertz on March 12, 2018, 05:54:58 PM
How's the performance for longer car journeys? We are looking to use it for road tripping around the UK as well.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: VicW on March 12, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
No problems for longer journeys, just remember it is a Jazz not a BMW or a Mercedes.

Vic.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Lewo on March 12, 2018, 11:20:02 PM
Having recently bought ours, from what I can tell is these cars seem to hold their value and in my inexperienced guess I'd say north of 3K for that car?
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Jocko on March 13, 2018, 07:09:50 AM
Auto Trader show them from about £2.7K.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: auntyneddy on March 13, 2018, 09:06:08 AM
Just to put my twopenneth in again. Yesterday, climbing a fairly steep hill, increased the throttle to compensate and off we went. 3rd gear ( Ishift and 2000 revs). I find the biggest problem with the Jazz on fast roads is holding the little beggar back. It is very easy to find oneself above the 70mph limit. Of course it's not a sports car but personally I think it is a good little car that does what it is designed to do fairly well. It can't of course be beaten on it's magic seats.
It really is horses for courses.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: JohnAlways on March 13, 2018, 09:12:50 AM
Hi all
I've only owned a 1.2 i-vtec and unless I'm in a mood (sorry hurry) I rarely go over 3000 revs because I don't need to.
I drive in 4th in 20mph zones, in 5th in 30mph zones and tend to keep to 3000 rpm on motorways for hours on end.
I'm not disagreeing regarding the DSi 1.2 as the car I bought for my son was a 2008 version, manual and the test drive I did was good fun.

However I feel the i-vtec is quite suitable for me, work commute of 17 miles along mostly the A46 in the countryside, trips to Cheltenham can be stop start for much of it (another 17 miles) and trips to London, Liverpool, York etc for work all happily undertaken.

I like the i-vtec but really its a personal preference, whichever you get I'm sure you'll be happy enough.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: MikeG1944 on March 13, 2018, 09:22:48 AM
Oh the Magic Seats; worth buying a Jazz for that alone. Incredibly useful!
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Jocko on March 13, 2018, 09:44:57 AM
I've only owned a 1.2 i-vtec and unless I'm in a mood (sorry hurry) I rarely go over 3000 revs because I don't need to.
I drive in 4th in 20mph zones, in 5th in 30mph zones and tend to keep to 3000 rpm on motorways for hours on end.
Snap, with my 1.2 i-DSi.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: badgerdisco on March 13, 2018, 10:16:25 AM
Having been to see a couple at garages, I'd really advise a preference for finding a decent private buy. I went to look at one at the weekend and the engine was piping hot, it had scuffed wheels that had been painted over, and a brand new number plate and some very new looking panels - I suspect it had been crashed. Potentially sitting around and they started it up just in case, but I walked away.

Problem is with private sale it is a case of 'sold as seen' and no legal comeback without taking private action via small claims court, once the seller has your money it's bye-bye.   Caveat Emptor.  Personally I have always used reputable dealers, Either Brindley Honda or J T Hughes in our neck of the woods,  I know it costs you more but you do have a lot of backup and legal protection.

It depends how much you have to spend/lose! I'm always after cheaper second hand cars, unfortunately, so have to take the risk. But, I've had some good luck by following one simple rule: could I have a beer/coffee with the seller? If not, then maybe not the best person to buy a car from.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: John Ratsey on March 13, 2018, 11:25:27 AM
How's the performance for longer car journeys? We are looking to use it for road tripping around the UK as well.
The CVT is better than the manual gearbox for cruising as the top end of the gear ratios is higher. The Mk. 2 Jazz CVT engine ticks over at around 2,000 rpm at 60 mph (but will add more revs when it comes to a hill). Overall, the low cruising revs provde a less tiring journey. I'll leave others to comment on how the Mk. 1 Jazz CVT behaves in this respect.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: VicW on March 13, 2018, 02:07:08 PM
The earlier CVT did about 25mph/1000rpm so about 2500 revs at 60mph. The manual versions are about 22mph/1000rpm.

Vic.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: VicW on March 13, 2018, 02:12:08 PM
Sept 1958 Jazz SE CVT? Think you mean 2008 Vic!
Mike.

Yup, a typo. In 1958 I was a biker although I had passed my car test too. I think I was in the BSA Gold Star phase.

Vic.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: badgerdisco on March 13, 2018, 02:58:39 PM
Slightly off-topic but with the mention of the magic seats - can you fit an adult bike in the back without removing the front wheel?

I used to have a Mk1 fabia and it was just about doable - but with a lot of fudging. A focus is much better and I assumed the Jazz would be... but I've noticed they are more Fiesta sized (but with a clever interior to compensate).
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: culzean on March 13, 2018, 04:40:52 PM
Slightly off-topic but with the mention of the magic seats - can you fit an adult bike in the back without removing the front wheel?

I used to have a Mk1 fabia and it was just about doable - but with a lot of fudging. A focus is much better and I assumed the Jazz would be... but I've noticed they are more Fiesta sized (but with a clever interior to compensate).

May look Fiesta sized but more usable space than a Focus,  in fact the Jazz is a proper Tardis, if Dr Who had a car it would be a Jazz.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=127
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: JohnAlways on March 13, 2018, 06:55:59 PM
Quote "Slightly off-topic but with the mention of the magic seats - can you fit an adult bike in the back without removing the front wheel"?

I can only answer "I do" with a mountain bike
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Fell Viper on March 13, 2018, 08:10:55 PM
Firstly Congratulations! Is it your first (baby not Jazz!) if so then the Jazz is a great choice.

It has iso-fix rear seats and the doors open almost 90į making it much easier than some other cars to get a baby seat in. There is tonnes of room in the boot and it genuinely always surprises me how much it fits (!) exceptionally handy when you have the babies entourage of stuff to take with you.

I personally find it very good for long journeys aswell, I got mine solely as a commuter car which takes me 150 miles every day (yes seriously!)  I frequently get caught in traffic, and have had a few 4 hour journeys, yet to get a numb bum! Itís very roomy so it doesnít get clostorophobic.  I have the 1.4 ivtec, im happy with the mpg I get. The biggest difference you can make is your style of driving.  The 1.4 is poky, no problem over taking whatsoever, but remember that the Vtec is an entity that likes being revved hard to get the most out of it. Always drop a gear (or 2) to put you back into the vtec cam for climbing a hill etc.

I got the ex model, for the cruise control and arm rest and air con. Essentials when you spend half you life driving!! 
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: badgerdisco on March 14, 2018, 11:09:36 AM
Quote "Slightly off-topic but with the mention of the magic seats - can you fit an adult bike in the back without removing the front wheel"?

I can only answer "I do" with a mountain bike

Excellent, thanks! If only there were more for sale in my price range £3500 and near Cambridge. I'm fussy though, I want a MKII 1.4 manual in a non-hideous colour. Black or Grey ideally.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: badgerdisco on March 14, 2018, 11:10:56 AM
Slightly off-topic but with the mention of the magic seats - can you fit an adult bike in the back without removing the front wheel?

I used to have a Mk1 fabia and it was just about doable - but with a lot of fudging. A focus is much better and I assumed the Jazz would be... but I've noticed they are more Fiesta sized (but with a clever interior to compensate).

May look Fiesta sized but more usable space than a Focus,  in fact the Jazz is a proper Tardis, if Dr Who had a car it would be a Jazz.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=127

Really, even the MK2 focus? My brother had that car and the boot was huge! The magic seats do make a large space though so makes sense! I shall keep shopping. Currently carless after my MK1 Fabia decided to die after flying through an MOT.
Title: Re: i-DSI vs i-VTEC
Post by: Geertz on March 15, 2018, 02:04:04 PM
My wife wanted a newer car so i-VTEC it is!