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Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - => Honda Jazz Mk3 FAQ => Topic started by: peteo48 on October 02, 2016, 05:15:08 PM

Title: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: peteo48 on October 02, 2016, 05:15:08 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/01/honda-jazz-car-review-zoe-williams (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/01/honda-jazz-car-review-zoe-williams)

Worth stating that the Guardian's motoring correspondent is about as far from a proper motoring journalist as it is possible to get.

But is she right? Is the Jazz being left behind in the performance stakes? Maybe that new turbo engine can't come soon enough.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 02, 2016, 05:51:13 PM
i think she's an idiot journalist. The Jazz has all the performance it needs. It's not a sports car but it has more than enough to handle typical rush hour traffic. The fact she complains about the collision warning tells me she's a bad driver. I can count on one hand the number of times mine has gone off in the last nine months.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: TG on October 02, 2016, 05:55:12 PM
Didn't mention the touchscreen, but it's fundamentally the same across all makes.
"The cabin is more spacious than you’d expect"
--
TG
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Pine on October 02, 2016, 07:16:56 PM
I have to agree with the review. There are a lot of hills where I live and my Jazz struggled to gain any speed uphill. The lack lustre performance was the main reason I switched to a Ford Fiesta Ecoboost, and I haven't regretted that decision. I have had a Mk1 and a Mk2 jazz and they can't be beaten for reliability or interior space but once you have driven a Ford Ecoboost engine and experienced how much torque is available at low revs you realise how bad the Jazz is in that respect, and my mpg is the same as the Jazz. It is not a surprise that the 1.0 three cylinder engine has won engine of the year three times in a row.   When they put a similar engine inn the Jazz I'll be one of the first to give it a test drive.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: trebor1652 on October 02, 2016, 09:13:17 PM
The car goes up hills very well in cruise control mode, it's a pity that it doesn't drive that well on the throttle, you need to use the paddles or S mode, it's almost impossible to get the engine to rev at or over 4000rpm.
But I do like the car.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Rory on October 02, 2016, 09:28:39 PM
The car goes up hills very well in cruise control mode, it's a pity that it doesn't drive that well on the throttle, you need to use the paddles or S mode, it's almost impossible to get the engine to rev at or over 4000rpm.

I don't understand those points - what's stopping the engine going over 4000rpm?

It's not the way most people drive these days, especially those used to torquey, low revving diesels, but VTEC engines run well at higher revs - mk3 Jazz max power is at 6000rpm.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: davegreen55 on October 02, 2016, 09:46:43 PM
As it was the Guardian I'm surprised that they didn't critisise the lack of storage space for recycled organic tofu and quinoa burgers.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Downsizer on October 02, 2016, 10:29:10 PM
The test car was manual, which I haven't driven, but I assume rapid progress needs a lot of gear-changing.  A
generation of drivers of diesel turbos have become used to lots of torque at low revs.  I find the cvt gives plenty of performance when needed.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: edam on October 02, 2016, 10:31:47 PM
It looks like she was driving the same manual Jazz I was driving as I agree with a lot of her comments.
Happily the CVT I swapped to, at great cost, is so much better.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: edam on October 02, 2016, 10:35:43 PM
i think she's an idiot journalist. The Jazz has all the performance it needs. It's not a sports car but it has more than enough to handle typical rush hour traffic. The fact she complains about the collision warning tells me she's a bad driver. I can count on one hand the number of times mine has gone off in the last nine months.

My collision warning was going off often , on my manual, and needed the car in the workshop for five days to have this problem  fixed.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: peteo48 on October 02, 2016, 11:02:27 PM
As it was the Guardian I'm surprised that they didn't critisise the lack of storage space for recycled organic tofu and quinoa burgers.

 ;D
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: culzean on October 03, 2016, 08:46:57 AM
Comments about 'a generation bought up on torquey turbo diesels' are right,  but surely comparing naturally aspirated petrol engines with turbo diesels is comparing apples and oranges? (a diesel without a turbo ain't anything to write home about either :-X).  I don't know why it has taken car makers so long to introduce even low pressure turbos into their engines which will give more torque at lower rpm,  compared with complexity and cost of modern diesels a turbo petrol engine has long been a no brainer especially with modern ceramics to handle high temperatures seen in turbos.

Power is the 'size of the bang  x number of bangs per minute'  - main reason Diesels have more torque is bigger flywheel and longer longer crank throw (required to get high compression ratio) - longer stroke engines, including petrol always have more torque,  but higher piston speed limits rev range to around 4K,  and that is known as 'a high speed diesel'  :o .  Because of emissions diesel car engines will be a rarity in 5 to 10 years time and electrically assisted hybrids can get high torque at low revs,  and don't need that horrible, expensive and unreliable 'dual mass flywheel' that diesels must have to protect transmission from low rev power pulses that diesels produce.

Most women I know never rev above about 2K when driving (except when pulling away sometimes and slipping clutch at about 4K LOL), they think they are damaging the engine if they exceed that level,  I suppose the Guardian bimbo is from the same mindset of women who do not love or understand engines but become a motoring writer as a break from making tea in the office.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/yougov-polling-blog/2014/nov/18/yougov-profiles-the-nations-newspaper-readers (https://www.theguardian.com/media/yougov-polling-blog/2014/nov/18/yougov-profiles-the-nations-newspaper-readers)
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Downsizer on October 03, 2016, 10:54:38 AM
"It is small, but it has no nip. In fact, it has almost no acceleration in any gear" - Zoe Williams in The Guardian.  "larger inside than the 2nd generation model, a car famed for its capacious interior"... "a potentially lively performer" - Mark Pearson in Autocar.  Compare and contrast, as the exam question used to say!
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 03, 2016, 11:04:39 AM
I have to agree with the review. There are a lot of hills where I live and my Jazz struggled to gain any speed uphill.
My first thought would be wondering why you are often trying to gain speed uphill often enough to care. It's a very inefficient thing to do.

But in any case I've had no problems. Sure if there's a BMW or Audi behind me I'm going to have to put up with them hanging off my bumper but I can keep pace with everyone else. In fact very few drivers use all the power their vehicle has very often so I nearly always pull away from them even when I'm not trying.

I honestly can't see any legitimate reason to complain about the Jazz' performance. It has at least as much power as any sensible person should expect from a small car. Sure it will disappoint some petrol heads or an over excited 'yoof' but it's not marketed at those people. The Jazz does all (and maybe more) in the performance stakes one should expect it to. If you want drive around like Stirling Moss or Lewis Hamilton buy something different.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 03, 2016, 11:07:38 AM
The car goes up hills very well in cruise control mode, it's a pity that it doesn't drive that well on the throttle, you need to use the paddles or S mode, it's almost impossible to get the engine to rev at or over 4000rpm.

I don't understand those points - what's stopping the engine going over 4000rpm?
Agreed. You just floor the accelerator and it'll jump up there. But..why would anyone want to do that more often than once in a blue moon? I drive over two hundred miles a week and there are very few opportunities that would allow me to do that even if I wanted to. I occasionally blast up the hill away from J11 of the M40 at the end of a trying day at the office but I find I can keep up with almost every car. There's only the big BMWs and Audis who can get away from me (or who choose to - most people don't even try).
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Pine on October 04, 2016, 10:19:52 AM
I have to agree with the review. There are a lot of hills where I live and my Jazz struggled to gain any speed uphill.
My first thought would be wondering why you are often trying to gain speed uphill often enough to care. It's a very inefficient thing to do.

I was thinking of a situation where you are you are stopped at a red light and facing uphill, a scenario I often encounter.

The Jazz has a typical Honda engine, give it plenty of revs to get up in the torque band and its a real flyer. But in the real world where you are stuck in the flow of traffic and come to a steep hill I sometimes found my CVT was almost full throttle just to keep up, not very fuel efficient, once up to speed I could throttle off a bit.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 04, 2016, 11:10:21 AM
I was thinking of a situation where you are you are stopped at a red light and facing uphill, a scenario I often encounter.

The Jazz has a typical Honda engine, give it plenty of revs to get up in the torque band and its a real flyer. But in the real world where you are stuck in the flow of traffic and come to a steep hill I sometimes found my CVT was almost full throttle just to keep up, not very fuel efficient, once up to speed I could throttle off a bit.
Ah. Well I've driven up a few steep hills but never actually had to get going from a standstill. Closest I've done is leaving the 30mph zone at Brailles or Swalcliffe. The car seems quite capable of accelerating up them even though both are of the order of 20% or maybe even 30%. The A422 up from the M40 is fairly steep and when I put my foot down few people keep up with me. Even bigger cars don't scream away into the distance. I've never been 'left standing' by anything. But frankly most people just accelerate moderately and the bulk of us stay together.

Still there's never been any good reason to go screaming up any hill (or indeed at any point) and that's why I'm sceptical about the criticism. I drive 200 miles a week and have been driving for several decades. My experience is simply that very few people regularly accelerate quickly. I can't imagine any normal situation where it is necessary to floor the accelerator in any vehicle. I've driven the original Mini. The Mini Metro (both 1 litre) a 1 litre Nissan Micra. Sure they were a bit underpowered (the Micra caused me to abandon an overtake on a very short dual carriageway at Kingswood on the A41).

But I have never driven a vehicle that I felt couldn't keep up with normal traffic flow. You get the occasional twonk in a big car (typically a BMW or Audi) who tries to chivvy you along but they don't matter and can be safely ignored. Most people just don't drive in such a way as to require anything much out of any vehicle.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on October 04, 2016, 11:21:57 AM
From the article linked in the OP I don't think the lady has any mechanical knowledge or a clue what is under the bonnet. She obviously does not know how to access the 100 BHP which is more than adequate for a small car if she needs it. As for no interlock on reverse, she can't have tried to get reverse from anywhere but neutral. There are a few reviews around where the writer does not realise that the Jazz is a two mode car, normal pottering about, and i-vetc when power is required. As for uphill performance, my car will maintain 70 mph up the steepest motorway hill in the UK in 6th gear on cruise control (southbound M90 from Bridge of Earn which is outside the motorway maximum gradient spec but no option due to terrain) although the change down light comes on near the top.

My son in law had a S2000, that had awesome vetc, my daughter ordered its sale after a couple of damp road spins. :-)
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: VicW on October 04, 2016, 11:27:37 AM
Perhaps the tester lady was driving in high heels which means that it quite likely physically impossible for her to apply any more than part throttle. The same applies to men of course !

Vic.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 04, 2016, 01:41:20 PM
It's just occurred to me that when I first got the car I noticed that sometimes the accelerator pedal seemed a bit dead. I'd press it and almost nothing happened. That no longer bothers me so I'm guessing that I've learnt the 'knack'. I think I might be being a bit more aggressive with the pedal than I used to be. Perhaps I've just learnt the right amount of 'kick down' to wake the engine up. I am now nearly always at 3,000 rpm when moving off unless I'm in a queue.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Ocky on October 04, 2016, 04:05:12 PM
I have a Mk2 and my Uncle who got me into Hondas had a Mk2 for 3 years. Last September he bought a Mk3 and has recently changed it for a Mini Countryman 1.6, as he just couldn't get on with it.

I agree that the Guardian reviews are not very helpful whatever the car is, and there are few useful facts. I've had the new Jazz as a courtesy car on a few occasions and liked the gizzmos but did find it a little underpowered and I'm no boy racer.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: mikebore on October 04, 2016, 04:23:11 PM
I haven't driven a manual Jazz but with my Mk3 CVT, S mode makes a significant difference to the subjective "peppiness" of the car.

I found the same was even more true of my Mk 2 where it felt distinctly less peppy than my my wife Mk1 when used in normal D mode, but much more peppy in S mode.

The S mode in the Mk3 and Mk2 are highly usable, but in the Mk1 it feel too low geared.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: peteo48 on October 04, 2016, 06:12:22 PM
I have a Mk2 and my Uncle who got me into Hondas had a Mk2 for 3 years. Last September he bought a Mk3 and has recently changed it for a Mini Countryman 1.6, as he just couldn't get on with it.

I agree that the Guardian reviews are not very helpful whatever the car is, and there are few useful facts. I've had the new Jazz as a courtesy car on a few occasions and liked the gizzmos but did find it a little underpowered and I'm no boy racer.

I think part of the problem is that the trend is for newspaper car reviewers to only test up market cars with the odd ordinary motor thrown in for balance. If you are used to putting powerful cars through their paces the jazz is going to seem pretty pedestrian. The same reviewer (again, not a proper motoring journalist) tested the Civic Type R last year and found it "insanely fast."

The Jazz range is possibly crying out for a hotter version though. Something to compete with the 1.2 TSI engine fitted to the Polo or the 1 litre Eco Boost in the Fiesta. A friend has a Fiesta with that engine and it has a responsiveness that the Jazz lacks.

For me, and for my type of motoring, this is not an issue but if they want a broader customer base they need an engine option that will offer a 0-60 time of under 10 seconds and one that doesn't have to be "ragged" to bring the power out.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on October 04, 2016, 07:14:35 PM
It is difficult to "ragg" a vtec engine, they are designed for high revs. Something that seems to be lost on many drivers.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: VicW on October 04, 2016, 07:48:42 PM
It is difficult to "ragg" a vetc engine, they are designed for high revs. Something that seems to be lost on many drivers.

I am with 'Deeps' on this. The vtec engine is whatever you want it to be, a docile very flexible engine happy at low revs or a snappy revving beast giving adequate performance. all this is courtesy of the variable valve timing and engine management system.
I think that the CVT version is the most pleasing to drive as its response to wide throttle openings is almost instantaneous and will easily reach 6K revs on full throttle and using the 'S' mode to preempt overtaking moves will take the engine to 6.5K ( the start of the red line). Doing this will not cause the engine to explode, Honda run their engines on test beds at max revs for hours. Yes the engine gets noisy but not for long as the gear changes up'. The effect on fuel consumption is negligible, you are not driving like this all the time.
If you want a low revving engine then buy a diesel.

Vic.

Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 04, 2016, 08:02:12 PM
It is difficult to "ragg" a vtec engine, they are designed for high revs. Something that seems to be lost on many drivers.
Exactly. The entire premise of the V-TEC engine is to produce power on demand. If drivers are unable or unwilling to make that demand they should consider a different engine technology.

It would be interesting to know if the complainers are experiencing the poor accelerator response I used to notice. I have my doubts though as it didn't happen often and to me was clearly something wrong. It felt more like the car was ignoring my right foot completely rather than lacking power.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on October 04, 2016, 10:38:41 PM
Was this poor response in your early days of ownership? The reason I ask is the thought crossed my mind that you were in too high a gear for the situation as it was a new to you car. If it was a fault it is unlikely to have mended itself. Rapidly learning that a much lower gear was required may have fixed the problem. As an ex diesel driver of 30 years standing I had this problem until I relearned petrol driving.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: edam on October 04, 2016, 11:57:20 PM
What everybody does not realise is that the Mk3 uses a hybrid engine but WITHOUT a electric motor to provide torque at low revs.
Its not about V-Tec but the fact that the inlet valve is held open on the compression stroke to reduce compression losses and hence increase economy. Ok if you have a electric motor to compensate for the lack of torque but crap if you aint.
For a change it looks like this reviewer has actually driven the car as I don't think some reviewers have actually done that
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on October 05, 2016, 08:29:11 AM
I agree it is basically a hybrid minus the complication of the weight of the batteries and associated motor etc. People complaining about lack of low rev torque don't understand the concept of the Mk3 Jazz. This is having both economy and power available at the drivers choice. If you use the torque of a small turbo engine the fuel consumption will rise in proportion to the acceleration used. There is no free lunch in fuel consumption, at least the current Jazz gives you the choice, if you understand how it works.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 05, 2016, 08:30:37 AM
Was this poor response in your early days of ownership? The reason I ask is the thought crossed my mind that you were in too high a gear for the situation as it was a new to you car.
Me? No. I own a CVT model. I'm always in the correct gear. I think it had more to do with the two different engine modes.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on October 05, 2016, 08:34:00 AM
Exactly, two engine modes to be used as you choose. In a manual car of course. :-)

Edit

If you floor it at low speed with a CVT does it take a second or so to respond?
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: andruec on October 05, 2016, 09:00:51 AM
If you floor it at low speed with a CVT does it take a second or so to respond?
No. A couple of tenths of a second typically.

It was only ever an occasional refusal to respond the accelerator - mostly when pulling away from a roundabout which at one point made me wonder if it was traction control. These days it's fine so I think I've just learnt how to use the accelerator pedal better.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on October 05, 2016, 09:08:25 AM
That was my problem after 30 odd years of diesel driving. I also still hesitate for a couple of seconds between switching on and starting the engine, I must remember no glow plugs. :-)
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: culzean on October 05, 2016, 09:35:47 AM
I have a Mk2 and my Uncle who got me into Hondas had a Mk2 for 3 years. Last September he bought a Mk3 and has recently changed it for a Mini Countryman 1.6, as he just couldn't get on with it.

Hope your uncle had a good deal from Mini dealer and got a good pair of walking shoes, and umbrella and AA membership thrown in.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: peteo48 on October 05, 2016, 03:41:11 PM
It is difficult to "ragg" a vetc engine, they are designed for high revs. Something that seems to be lost on many drivers.

I am with 'Deeps' on this. The vtec engine is whatever you want it to be, a docile very flexible engine happy at low revs or a snappy revving beast giving adequate performance. all this is courtesy of the variable valve timing and engine management system.
I think that the CVT version is the most pleasing to drive as its response to wide throttle openings is almost instantaneous and will easily reach 6K revs on full throttle and using the 'S' mode to preempt overtaking moves will take the engine to 6.5K ( the start of the red line). Doing this will not cause the engine to explode, Honda run their engines on test beds at max revs for hours. Yes the engine gets noisy but not for long as the gear changes up'. The effect on fuel consumption is negligible, you are not driving like this all the time.
If you want a low revving engine then buy a diesel.

Vic.

These are fair points but I suspect the more instant power delivery of a turbo is indeed spoiling people as you suggest. This is why the Jazz draws adverse comments for its lack of responsiveness. As I say, this is not an issue for me but may be an Achilles heel for the car in terms of attracting a wider customer base. Hence the talk of a 1 litre turbo.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: culzean on October 05, 2016, 04:45:46 PM
It is difficult to "ragg" a vetc engine, they are designed for high revs. Something that seems to be lost on many drivers.

I am with 'Deeps' on this. The vtec engine is whatever you want it to be, a docile very flexible engine happy at low revs or a snappy revving beast giving adequate performance. all this is courtesy of the variable valve timing and engine management system.
I think that the CVT version is the most pleasing to drive as its response to wide throttle openings is almost instantaneous and will easily reach 6K revs on full throttle and using the 'S' mode to preempt overtaking moves will take the engine to 6.5K ( the start of the red line). Doing this will not cause the engine to explode, Honda run their engines on test beds at max revs for hours. Yes the engine gets noisy but not for long as the gear changes up'. The effect on fuel consumption is negligible, you are not driving like this all the time.
If you want a low revving engine then buy a diesel.

Vic.



When doing tests on their engine designs Honda are famous for running their engines flat out for 24hrs, if anything breaks they improve it and run it until they have a product that will run for 24hrs straight - we get the benefit of the reliability this produces and then you get Bimbo testers from the Guardian et al  scared to rev over 2K.

100 ponies is plenty for a car the size of a Jazz,  look at the S2000,  240 ponies / 9000 revs and  as reliable as a Swiss watch.

Diesels are for lorries and tractors,  but comparing turbo Diesels with NA petrol is not helpful.  Incidentally using a Turbo on a petrol engine (and a diesel) puts more 'charge' into the cylinder - that is more air and more petrol which is compressed more and you get a bigger bang, more torque so can rev lower to get same power.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Ocky on October 05, 2016, 07:00:50 PM
I have a Mk2 and my Uncle who got me into Hondas had a Mk2 for 3 years. Last September he bought a Mk3 and has recently changed it for a Mini Countryman 1.6, as he just couldn't get on with it.

Hope your uncle had a good deal from Mini dealer and got a good pair of walking shoes, and umbrella and AA membership thrown in.

 ;)

IMO Mini's are overpriced but he's had them before and it suits his needs
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: VicW on October 05, 2016, 07:19:33 PM

These are fair points but I suspect the more instant power delivery of a turbo is indeed spoiling people as you suggest.
[/quote]

Turbo design has come on in leaps and bounds. The early ones were notorious for turbo lag when nothing happened below about 3K revs which didn't matter on the big diesel trucks they were originally designed for. Now the lag is virtually non existent which is presumably one of the reasons why small turbo assisted engines are becoming the norm or on bigger engines multiple turbos are quite common

Vic.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: CATech on April 25, 2018, 10:02:29 AM
....... it's almost impossible to get the engine to rev at or over 4000rpm.

[/quote]Agreed. You just floor the accelerator and it'll jump up there. But..why would anyone want to do that more often than once in a blue moon?
[/quote]

I'd rather keep the cyclinder compression / big ends / little ends / my life / whatever else... for a bit longer.

Remember the tortoise and the hare?
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: culzean on April 25, 2018, 04:32:45 PM
....... it's almost impossible to get the engine to rev at or over 4000rpm.

Agreed. You just floor the accelerator and it'll jump up there. But..why would anyone want to do that more often than once in a blue moon?
[/quote]

I'd rather keep the cyclinder compression / big ends / little ends / my life / whatever else... for a bit longer.

Remember the tortoise and the hare?
[/quote]

Honda engines love to rev and all mine have regularly hit the rev limiter (manual boxes though) - and they have all done big mileages without a problem, it probably does the engine more harm if it never goes above 3K (CAT and EGR will suffer for sure).
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: zzaj on April 25, 2018, 05:00:12 PM
"Combined fuel consumption 57 mpg"

Has anyone achieved that?
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Jocko on April 25, 2018, 05:07:44 PM
"Combined fuel consumption 57 mpg"

Has anyone achieved that?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2017?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=5 (http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2017?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=5)
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: mikebore on April 25, 2018, 05:13:08 PM
"Combined fuel consumption 57 mpg"

Has anyone achieved that?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2017?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=5 (http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2017?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=5)

Those look very low. I'm sure folk here have reported much better.

Can you filter on Fuelly to show 2016 and 2017 Mk3 Jazzes? Presumably my 2016 would show up then?

Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Jocko on April 25, 2018, 05:37:38 PM
Can you filter on Fuelly to show 2016 and 2017 Mk3 Jazzes? Presumably my 2016 would show up then?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2016
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: mikebore on April 25, 2018, 05:48:14 PM
Can you filter on Fuelly to show 2016 and 2017 Mk3 Jazzes? Presumably my 2016 would show up then?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2016

Thanks....makes much more sense! I am plumb on the average (or should it median).

Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: peteo48 on April 25, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
I'm on 41.1 as you can see but the first two fill ups represent cold weather and my usual pattern of short journeys. My average speed is 15 mph which gives you some indication of the time I spend stationary!

I'd be delighted if mine settles in the mid 40s.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Barcam on April 26, 2018, 07:26:31 AM
I have to agree with the review. There are a lot of hills where I live and my Jazz struggled to gain any speed uphill. The lack lustre performance was the main reason I switched to a Ford Fiesta Ecoboost, and I haven't regretted that decision. I have had a Mk1 and a Mk2 jazz and they can't be beaten for reliability or interior space but once you have driven a Ford Ecoboost engine and experienced how much torque is available at low revs you realise how bad the Jazz is in that respect, and my mpg is the same as the Jazz. It is not a surprise that the 1.0 three cylinder engine has won engine of the year three times in a row.   When they put a similar engine inn the Jazz I'll be one of the first to give it a test drive.

I sold my Ford Fiesta Ecoboost manual for a Honda Jazz Sport CVT and I can tell you that it has a lot more go than the Fiesta even allowing for the CVT. It just sails up hills and in my opinion beats the fiesta which was a bit gutless on a long upward slope on the motorway. Its just pleasure to drive around town with the CVT compared to the Fiesta and the economy is the same if not better. Its pretty well the same dimensions as the Fiesta outside but inside its huge. The Car Reviews go on and on about the fiesta handling but I can only say that the 2018 Jazz goes around bends and curves every bit as fast as the Fiesta.

I must say that if I had paid any attention to Car Reviews then I doubt I would have bought a Jazz. But I believe in a trying a car myself. I was very pleasantly surprised at how good the 2018 Honda Sport was on the road. The Honda Jazz (Fit) in the USA is very popular but they have always had the 1.5 engine which I suspect is the key difference.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: mcderd on April 26, 2018, 09:20:33 AM
I decided to read another of Zoe's reviews

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/23/hyundai-tucson-car-review-zoe-williams

She seems to be obsessed with a lack of acceleration, her style suggests she wants to be a female Clarkson. I would like to know which car accelerates to her satisfaction?
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: culzean on April 26, 2018, 09:56:21 AM
I decided to read another of Zoe's reviews

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/23/hyundai-tucson-car-review-zoe-williams

She seems to be obsessed with a lack of acceleration, her style suggests she wants to be a female Clarkson. I would like to know which car accelerates to her satisfaction?

Problem is some people want massive performance and great mpg, and the two are pretty much mutually exclusive because good performance means a good power to weight ratio and good mpg pretty much means settling for less performance.  The Honda iVTEC system is a good compromise and very reliable thanks to its basic simplicity and also its genius ( I had a chance to work installing equipment in BMW Hams Hall engine plant where I was shocked to see an electric motor inside the rocker cover of their engines, it job was to alter position of camshaft relative to crankshaft ,  but does not alter lift or dwell like the VTEC does). 

Problem is many people compare Turbo diesel and turbo petrol with naturally aspirated engines these days and think they are somehow 'more powerful'  because they have more torque lower down rev range,  but Honda manual gearbox is a joy to use, and for others there is always CVT.

She could test a Tesla and then complain about other things like the quality, fit and finish, tendency for wheels to fall off and the autopilot,  but would be happy with acceleration.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Barcam on April 26, 2018, 12:09:45 PM
I decided to read another of Zoe's reviews

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/23/hyundai-tucson-car-review-zoe-williams

She seems to be obsessed with a lack of acceleration, her style suggests she wants to be a female Clarkson. I would like to know which car accelerates to her satisfaction?

I think theses reviewers live in a different world from us ordinary drivers. Also they tend to follow what the other reviewers have written, its herd instinct.  Things like the noise from the CVT gearbox. It does not sound any louder than any other car I have driven. Car underpowered, rubbish the 1.3 is quite good enough and the 1.5 is even better.

The only good review I ever found was from "Honest John".
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: peteo48 on April 26, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
I agree completely with Barcam. Another issue with car reviews in the press, even the left leaning Guardian, is that the staple diet is performance cars from prestige manufacturers. Not only that, they are usually the most highly specced models.

So, one week the reviewer is testing something like a Porsche then they might have to test a token ordinary car like the Jazz. They'll be a bit peeved to go back into the real world like the rest of us and it shows in the critical reviews they write.

I was interested in Barcam's review of the Fiesta Ecoboost . Last week I had a lift in one and, I have to say, I was quite impressed. Obviously the acid test would have to be a test drive.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Barcam on April 26, 2018, 01:58:45 PM
I agree completely with Barcam. Another issue with car reviews in the press, even the left leaning Guardian, is that the staple diet is performance cars from prestige manufacturers. Not only that, they are usually the most highly specced models.

So, one week the reviewer is testing something like a Porsche then they might have to test a token ordinary car like the Jazz. They'll be a bit peeved to go back into the real world like the rest of us and it shows in the critical reviews they write.

I was interested in Barcam's review of the Fiesta Ecoboost . Last week I had a lift in one and, I have to say, I was quite impressed. Obviously the acid test would have to be a test drive.

I had mine for three years, disappointing build quality (mine came from Spain), repeated disk run-out problems and glazing of the rear drum brakes. Fixed under warranty but always came back over time. Great engine very responsive but disappointing fuel consumption, nothing like Fords published figures. As a retired engineer I had my doubts about the longevity of the engine as its highly stressed. I prefer the Honda Jazz Sport any day, it feels bullet proof.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: mcderd on April 26, 2018, 08:14:50 PM
As culzean said "She could test a Tesla and then complain about other things like the quality, fit and finish, tendency for wheels to fall off and the autopilot,  but would be happy with acceleration." Especially in ludicrous mode!
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: peteo48 on April 26, 2018, 09:25:19 PM
Just on acceleration with the CVT, I've been experimenting a bit with S mode. On Sunday I was approaching the junction in Greater Manchester where the A57 intersects the M60. The roundabout is a bit of a multi laned racetrack and the hesitancy of the CVT (1.3 engine) could have been an issue. By dropping into S mode I was able to power round the roundabout quite effectively dropping back into D once I'd joined the M60.

So, use S mode from time to time when you need that extra acceleration, it really makes a difference.
Title: Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
Post by: Jaffa Jazz on June 14, 2018, 11:17:08 AM
My present CVT Jazz is my replacement for previous CVT 1.4 Mk2 Jazz, it is equally as good if not better.
A cracking little motor. Apart from the INFOTAINMENT SCREEN but even that is good to stick  my sat nav on so all is well that ends well.
I suggest the original Guardian motor correspondent re apply for an alternative position more suitable for her capabilities,not sure what that might be though. perhaps suggestions might be forthcoming.????