Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: csp on December 28, 2015, 12:18:44 PM

Title: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: csp on December 28, 2015, 12:18:44 PM
The Automatic Start / Stop on the new Jazz CVT stops the engine when the car comes to a rest and the foot brake pedal is depressed, if the brake pedal is released then the engine restarts.

When in in traffic jam if neutral is selected and the hand brake applied the car will still restart as soon the brake pedal is released. So for the engine to remain stopped the brake pedal has to be kept depressed and the brake lights then remain on which is not ideal, especially for the driver of car behind the Jazz.

I am not sure what happens with Start / Stop on the manual Jazz or other cars with Auto Start / Stop but it would be good if the Start / Stop also was also linked to the hand brake so that it could be applied instead of the driver having to keep the brake pedal depressed. There is already a switch that senses when the hand brake is applied, since  a warning is given if the car is driven off with the hand brake applied.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on December 28, 2015, 06:23:59 PM
Needing to keep foot on the brake (at least for the automatic version) is a feature that is shared with the Mk 2 versions with the auto idle stop (my Jazz hybrid had it). I used to get annoyed because, when I got home I would put my foot on the brake and the engine would stop, but moving the gear leave from D to P would start the engine running again.

Your suggestion of linking the behaviour to the handbrake is a good one. The engine can then be woken up by a light touch of the accelerator before wanting to pull away. This method could be applied restrospectively using a software update at no cost to Honda. My alternative suggestion, of a rear-looking sensor to detect a stationary vehicle close behind snd then turn off the brake lights would need extra equipment.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: ColinB on December 28, 2015, 06:29:25 PM
So for the engine to remain stopped the brake pedal has to be kept depressed and the brake lights then remain on which is not ideal, especially for the driver of car behind the Jazz.
I am astonished. At least it explains why so many drivers seem ignorant about the handbrake when stopped at traffic lights !
With a manual transmission, the procedure is:
- car stationary
- handbrake on
- gear stick in neutral
- foot off clutch
- engine stops (unless one of the many inhibiting factors is in play).
The engine restarts when you depress the clutch. If you don't want the engine to stop (eg if you know it's only going to be a short delay) then just keep your foot on the clutch. None of that involves keeping your foot on the brake pedal.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: harry22673 on December 28, 2015, 09:10:51 PM
Changing the topic slightly but the thing I don't understand is how it uses less fuel than keeping the engine on
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Rory on December 28, 2015, 10:57:36 PM
errr...an engine that is idling doesn't use much fuel, but a stopped engine doesn't use ANY fuel at all.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: culzean on December 29, 2015, 11:12:29 AM
I can see start stop working best in city traffic jams,  but very little if any saving in normal motoring.  I would also be worried about wear and tear on battery (more expensive battery needed because of more frequent starting of engine),  wear on starter motor.   When an engine stops the oil drains out of bearings and metal surfaces touch, and when the engine is started again it takes a few seconds to re-establish the hydrodynamic oil film (when bearing surfaces are actually floating on a film of oil) - most engine wear takes place with a cold engine and during startup - I gather that car makers have developed special bearings to resist this lack of oil, but no long term results available on wear.   Some fuel will be required to power the alternator and replace current drawn from battery by restarting, this also puts extra load on alternator,  also with cars increasingly using a turbo to increase efficiency we all know a turbo should be left to 'cool down' by idling the engine before shutoff.   When aircon is used on hot days I guess engine will not shut down if cabin temperature requires aircon to be on,  so I would hope aircon (or auto temperature control as its now called) would inhibit engine shutoff.

Would be interesting if members with auto stop-start could conduct their own experiments on fuel saving and whether using aircon affects engine shut-off.  Will be good to see if this technology is useful or just pandering to climate change lobbyists by marginally reducing fuel used  but increasing the cost of making cars - or maybe just smoke and mirrors like 'clean diesels a-la mode VW.

I wonder if increased purchase cost of cars fitted with stop-start (I don't think motor manufacturers are charities) and increased cost of replacing larger battery (and fuel used to carry weight of larger battery) and maybe the odd starter motor here and there will nullify any savings for most drivers.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on December 29, 2015, 12:55:35 PM
There is a long list of situations when the auto idle stop won't activate in which case it should show a symbol on the multi-function display. These are explained in the handbook. Having the aircon running is one reason (but subject to "and the difference between the set temperature and actual interior temperature becomes significant." Also having the air ventilation control at, or near, the demist setting also stops the idle stop from working. However, the system isn't infalliable. On a couple of longer journeys I have been stopped at traffic lights or similar and the auto idle stop has not activated nor has there been any symbol explaining why not. Once it has got into this mode then it will continue until after a stop (ie engine turned off). My dealer offered to look at this but I declined because they could take a long time and lots of miles to encounter it and then be none the wiser about the cause.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: harry22673 on December 29, 2015, 01:52:01 PM
errr...an engine that is idling doesn't use much fuel, but a stopped engine doesn't use ANY fuel at all.
But if its off for a few seconds
Starting it back up again would use more fuel
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: hybridjazz on December 29, 2015, 04:36:10 PM
on cars i have had in the past the stop start has always been a bit hit and miss ,sometimes it would work other
times not,in my experience you dont put the battery / starter motor under any more use as the systems i've used have a stop/start generator this motor stores energy to restart the engine in effect its like bump starting the car,
as the cylinders have a full charge of fuel & air all thats required is for the engine to turn and this is the job
of the generator as all other systems are at the ready.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Rory on December 29, 2015, 04:58:00 PM
Will be good to see if this technology is useful or just pandering to climate change lobbyists by marginally reducing fuel used  but increasing the cost of making cars - or maybe just smoke and mirrors like 'clean diesels a-la mode VW.

It's been "invented" because the emissons/ fuel consumption test cycle has pauses in it - so stopping the engine makes the car's figures better.

Same reason you can't turn it off permanently - the car has to start in the default condition it was tested in.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Rory on December 29, 2015, 05:04:42 PM
But if its off for a few seconds
Starting it back up again would use more fuel

No it wouldn't - these days you don't put your foot on the gas and rev the bollocks off the engine to start it.  You just twist the key or press the button and it starts.  No drama.

BMW say it saves fuel is the engine is stopped for 2 seconds.  Figures probably vary for other manufacturers, but that's the scale of it.

Having said that, we have it on our Tiguan and while it works very well (apparently on some cars it's almost random whether the engine stops or not) we always turn it off.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: ColinB on December 30, 2015, 10:23:00 AM
It's been "invented" because the emissons/ fuel consumption test cycle has pauses in it - so stopping the engine makes the car's figures better.
Not sure that is quite correct. This link ...
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp (http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp)
... describes the official testing, and it's clear that the requirement includes periods with the car stopped but the engine still idling, so if some wily engineer decided he would outfox that by stopping the engine then the test wouldn't be compliant. That's completely different to the VW case.

Nor do I buy the "it'll wear the engine out" argument. The powertrain components affected by start-stop have been designed for it, and the technology has been around for long enough for the engineers to have got it right.

I've always thought the stop-start thing has more to do with reducing pollution than improving fuel consumption. Traffic queues tend to create pollution & noise hot-spots so if everyone turned their engines off surely that's a Good Thing for the poor folks who live or work near there ?

Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: culzean on December 30, 2015, 11:02:23 AM
Nor do I buy the "it'll wear the engine out" argument. The powertrain components affected by start-stop have been designed for it, and the technology has been around for long enough for the engineers to have got it right.

I've always thought the stop-start thing has more to do with reducing pollution than improving fuel consumption. Traffic queues tend to create pollution & noise hot-spots so if everyone turned their engines off surely that's a Good Thing for the poor folks who live or work near there ?

You are right that stop-start is more about cutting emissions in traffic jams than reducing consumption,  but if you are paying extra for a car fitted with it (and you will be) what benefit can you expect as a 'pay-back' if not a reduction in your fuel bill.

You may say that 'it has been around long enough for engineers to have got it right'  but the diesel engine has been around a lot longer and the truth has only just come out about how things were hidden and we were lied to.

No one really knows about stop-start on engines life in the real world,  most engines without stop-start will be expected cover at least 200K without engine wear problems and this is well documented,  but is enough data available on stop-start at this point as cars that use stop start a lot probably don't do many miles as they will be stuck in urban traffic most of the time, and high mileage cars won't use stop start very much.

My point was that environmentalists jump up and down to get these technologies and don't mind car prices rising because of new technology with limited gains - they probably see it as a big plus if people can't afford a car and have to ride a bicycle.   
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Rory on December 30, 2015, 04:57:23 PM
Not sure that is quite correct. This link ...
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp (http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp)
... describes the official testing, and it's clear that the requirement includes periods with the car stopped but the engine still idling, so if some wily engineer decided he would outfox that by stopping the engine then the test wouldn't be compliant.

Stop start definitely is used during the tests.  It's very worthwhile to manufacturers as they live and die by the emissions test results and a larger proprotion of the test is spent stopped than in normal driving.  That stop/start can't by default to off is due to it being used in the tests - same as cars with auto gearboxes defaulting to eco mode where fitted, which many drivers hate.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: ColinB on December 31, 2015, 09:46:54 AM
Stop start definitely is used during the tests.  ... a larger proprotion of the test is spent stopped than in normal driving.
Guess we're going to have to agree to differ here !
My reading of both the link I posted to the VCA site, and the more detailed description of the ECE-15 test cycle (here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_European_Driving_Cycle) is that the engine should remain idling, not be stopped; one of the many criticisms of this testing is that the official cycle is so old (1970) that no-one had thought of stop-start at the time so the test doesn't permit it. Even if it is permitted, the test specifies that the engine is started from cold so the stop-start wouldn't kick in anyway during the short urban test cycle. Happy to be corrected if anyone can provide a reference proving otherwise.

Also, if you add up the numbers in the wiki article you find that a car under test would be stopped for 240 sec during the urban cycle, but moving for 540 sec; the extra-urban cycle adds a further 400 secs moving.

... if you are paying extra for a car fitted with it (and you will be) what benefit can you expect as a 'pay-back' if not a reduction in your fuel bill.

My point was that environmentalists jump up and down to get these technologies and don't mind car prices rising because of new technology with limited gains - they probably see it as a big plus if people can't afford a car and have to ride a bicycle.   
I wouldn't consider myself a rabid environmentalist, but if I can contribute in a small way that's great, and if it costs me slightly more then so be it. After all, I bought a Jazz, didn't I ?
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Rory on December 31, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
… one of the many criticisms of this testing is that the official cycle is so old (1970) that no-one had thought of stop-start at the time so the test doesn't permit it.
It’s not that it doesn’t permit it, it simply doesn’t mention it, and the criticism is that something which isn’t mentioned makes quite a big impact to the results.   The test also doesn’t take account of hybrids – so you get wacky results from some cars which can do most of the test under electric power but are hopeless under electric power on the road (Mitsubishi PHEV is noted for this).

Even if it is permitted, the test specifies that the engine is started from cold so the stop-start wouldn't kick in anyway during the short urban test cycle.
The test is done from cold but in an ambient of at least 20C.  I’ve heard of lots of cars where stop/start is very uncertain in the way it works, but I can tell you on the VW Tiguan which replaced our 2009 Jazz, I can back it out of the drive from overnight stop, go 200yds to the end of the road and the engine will stop,  It does it every time I forget to de-activate it. Manufacturers do a lot of pre-test work on vehicles that they (yes, they test them themselves) test so you can be sure that stop/start where fitted will be working perfectly.


This is the best I can find in terms of confirmation that stop/start is used - like I said above, the issue is that it's simply not mentioned:
"Deficiencies in the test cycle contribute to the widening gap – but cannot account for the entire variation. Notably the test cycle hasn’t changed in the last decade although the gap with real-world driving is getting wider. Part of the reason for the widening gap seems to be that manufacturers are increasingly deploying technology to improve the efficiency of cars that produce a big improvement in official tests but much smaller difference when the car is used on the road (such as stop-start technologies that switch off the engine when the vehicle is stationary). During the official NEDC test the vehicle is actually stationary for around 4 minutes or 20% of the test. Stop-start technology therefore has a considerable benefit in the test, but much less in average driving."

Source, page 17: http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/Real%20World%20Fuel%20Consumption%20v15_final.pdf (http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/Real%20World%20Fuel%20Consumption%20v15_final.pdf) 
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: culzean on December 31, 2015, 02:32:01 PM
It’s not that it doesn’t permit it, it simply doesn’t mention it, and the criticism is that something which isn’t mentioned makes quite a big impact to the results.   The test also doesn’t take account of hybrids – so you get wacky results from some cars which can do most of the test under electric power but are hopeless under electric power on the road (Mitsubishi PHEV is noted for this).

The most glaring example must be the BMW i8 which is quotes as 135mpg and congestion charge and road tax exempt,  but battery only lasts 18miles on a good day (probably half that if you want either the heater,  aircon or lights on LOL).  How can a car that can reach 155mph and 0-60mph in 4.5 sec ever achieve 135mpg  it has a relatively tiny 5kw/h battery,    I bet in real life average journey you would get about 30mpg if you were careful but the testings regulations are so shiite and skewed that it has been classified as a 'clean' car that does 135mpg and emits hardly any CO2.


Rory , that was a great article in your link,  who would have thought carmakers would go as far as disconnecting the alternator to reduce engine load and taping over bodywork gaps to reduce drag ?  all the tests seem to be run with all electrical equipment and aircon turned off as well,  probably under quite a high ambient temperature with high humidity to improve mpg as well. 
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Rory on December 31, 2015, 04:01:58 PM
Rory , that was a great article in your link,  who would have thought carmakers would go as far as disconnecting the alternator to reduce engine load and taping over bodywork gaps to reduce drag ?  all the tests seem to be run with all electrical equipment and aircon turned off as well,  probably under quite a high ambient temperature with high humidity to improve mpg as well. 

Thanks - I didn't read it all to be honest, but was struggling to find evidence that stop/start is used.

It's the fact that it defaults to "on" that makes it a certainty for me as the car has to run as started.  As you say, AC, lights and radio etc are all turned off for the test, but they will remain off if the ignition is turned off and back on again.  Stop/start won't - it defaults to on.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Downsizer on December 31, 2015, 04:17:48 PM
I don't believe stop/start would have been widely introduced if it didn't affect test results, thereby perhaps reducing the tax band, and giving a marketing advantage.  I don't think motorists generally value it very highly for its own sake.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on December 31, 2015, 08:43:58 PM
I have noticed, on the occasions that auto stop has failed to activate, that the indicated trip mpg can visibly drop as fuel gets used and the increase in miles is very small. And that's after, say, 50 miles of open road motoring with a reported mpg of around 60. So the auto stop can give some benefit to mpg in real life particularly if in a long queue for traffic lights where there are significant stop periods.

However, traffic snarl-ups are often in the form of slowly crawling traffic, such as the queue for a roundabout, when the auto stop doesn't get a chance to work. I wonder whether the proposed improved emissions testing will include some of this.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: culzean on January 01, 2016, 11:22:35 AM
quote from traffic management website technical section about stop-start vehicle emissions............

 “Once at operational temperature, a modern engine’s three-way catalytic converter at idle will reduce oxides of nitrogen, while oxidizing CO and HC compounds effectively to zero. But stopping the engine causes the catalytic converter to cool. At restart, a burst of air-polluting emissions is generated before the converter reattains operational temperature.”


Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: zzaj on January 01, 2016, 12:34:08 PM

BMW say it saves fuel is the engine is stopped for 2 seconds.


Not those German car manufacturers again?
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: culzean on January 01, 2016, 12:55:17 PM

BMW say it saves fuel is the engine is stopped for 2 seconds.


Not those German car manufacturers again?

Yes the very same German car makers who have the EU legislators in their pockets (and maybe even employ them as 'consultants') when they write the Euro vehicle emission laws LOL - no wonder Americans think European car makers and legislators are the same people and the laws are framed accordingly (with so many loopholes and get-out clauses that it is virtually impossible to break EU emission laws )
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Downsizer on January 01, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Regarding the effectiveness of the catalytic converter when idling, it does not of course remove carbon dioxide, which is what the tax band is based on.  So it seems that stop start may reduce the tax liability while at the same time increasing emissions of toxic NO and CO!
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: artjet on January 01, 2016, 02:31:52 PM
I just wish I could permanently disable this annoying, useless feature  >:(
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on January 01, 2016, 02:54:56 PM
My wife likes to disable the stop start when she remembers. I don't think she trusts it to start up again in time. I am used to a hybrid so the engine just does its own thing and I don't worry about it.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 11, 2016, 10:41:03 AM
The thing I like about the stop start system is it tells you why it is not working. My previous car with this system gave no indication and if it did not activate for a while it left you wondering if it was actually working.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 11, 2016, 10:44:49 AM
I just wish I could permanently disable this annoying, useless feature  >:(

There must be something wrong with mine, it is completely unobtrusive.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 11, 2016, 02:48:20 PM
I've always thought the stop-start thing has more to do with reducing pollution than improving fuel consumption.

I have always thought it is more to do with reducing the manufacturers total product Co2 output and their tax liability. The punters fuel consumption is not their priority, much like the tiny petrol engines turbo charged to within an inch of their lives.

Things will change next year with the new VED rates. The manufacturers will soon start their advertising campaigns for beat the tax increase sales.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: ColinS on August 11, 2016, 04:13:02 PM
Back on topic.  The manual will cut the engine if the car comes to a halt and is in neutral irrespective of the foot brake or handbrake being engaged.  So no need to dazzle drivers behind (my pet hate).

It will start again if you depress the clutch, move the steering wheel or the car starts rolling away.

As John says, there are several reasons that it will not activate, engine cold, demand from aircon etc.  But the cleaver one is that if you are stop start in traffic, it eventually recognises that and keeps the engine running.  Obviously Honda don't share BMW's theory.

I like this feature but did'n realise it operated in a different way on the CVT.  That really is a bad design fault that it will not stay cut out with the handbrake on in park.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: andruec on August 11, 2016, 04:41:11 PM
There must be something wrong with mine, it is completely unobtrusive.
Mine too. I just wish it wasn't necessary to hold the foot brake down on the auto model. I don't see why the engine has to start if I lift my foot when the vehicle is in neutral with the handbrake on.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: monkeydave on August 11, 2016, 04:47:33 PM
another reason im sticking with my mk2 this is

i just hope they dont start to turbo charge the jazz or replace the real hand brake for a button
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 11, 2016, 05:19:30 PM
another reason im sticking with my mk2 this is

If you are considering a new Mk3 get it registered before the tax change on April 1st.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: monkeydave on August 11, 2016, 05:43:36 PM
thanks for saying that, i did know about the tax changes but other people might not
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: culzean on August 11, 2016, 06:07:59 PM
As John says, there are several reasons that it will not activate, engine cold, demand from aircon etc.  But the cleaver one is that if you are stop start in traffic, it eventually recognises that and keeps the engine running.  Obviously Honda don't share BMW's theory.

maybe the car computer senses that if you are in traffic and keep on with the 'creep forward stop - start - creep forward stop - start -  etc' that pretty soon the car battery is gonna be flat and keeps the engine running just to put some juice back into it.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 11, 2016, 06:30:35 PM
When it stops working in heavy traffic does the not working / low battery symbol appear in the multi display?
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: andruec on August 12, 2016, 08:46:58 AM
When it stops working in heavy traffic does the not working / low battery symbol appear in the multi display?
Eventually, yes. Although I think it has to be pretty heavy traffic. Getting out of Banbury can be a bit annoying sometimes. I've been known to have to stop five or six times but idle stop rarely refuses to work once the engine is warmed up. But I've always been mindful of not bringing the car to a complete halt. I'm a megamiler(*) and am mindful that it takes more power to get a vehicle moving from stopped than it does to get it moving from a crawl. I also prefer to find the perfect crawl speed rather than keep jabbing at pedals.

What I'm less clear about is whether it's better to use the brakes to prolong the crawling or come to a stop earlier so that idle stop can cut the engine for longer. Probably makes no practical difference though so for now the decision depends on how much traffic is behind me.

(*)Like a hypermiler (http://www.lifehacker.co.uk/2014/06/26/hypermile-driving-secrets-max-petrol-mileage) but not so extreme :)
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 12, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
Thanks, I live in a light traffic area and being retired rarely drive at busy times. My stop start is unlikely to activate more than a few times in succession.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: monkeydave on August 15, 2016, 09:10:08 PM
I just wish I could permanently disable this annoying, useless feature  >:(

im thinking of getting a mk3 and this is one of the features i hate along with tire presure sensors, auto lights/wipers, auto lock and walk away, push button start and no real radio dial just touch screen control

have i missed anything lol
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: edam on August 15, 2016, 09:26:49 PM
I  think its a "question of balance "

Moody Blues ???

Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: andruec on August 15, 2016, 10:07:46 PM
I just wish I could permanently disable this annoying, useless feature  >:(
It's not useless - it will save you a small amount of fuel and slightly reduce the pollution you generate. I don't find it annoying - I barely notice it in normal driving. The engine has always restarted and is ready to go by the time I've moved my foot from the brake to the accelerator pedal. In what way is it annoying you?

im thinking of getting a mk3 and this is one of the features i hate along with tire presure sensors, auto lights/wipers, auto lock and walk away, push button start and no real radio dial just touch screen control
There are no tyre pressure sensors. The vehicle just compares wheel rotation speeds and warns of an anomaly. It's a simple and reliable system. Auto lights mostly work okay. Auto main-beam is nearly perfect and a huge boon. I agree on the infotainment unit though. Poorly designed UI, too much reliance on touch technology and buggy. Nothing says "congratulations on paying £18,000 for a new Jazz" quite like having to drive for two minutes listening to the engine and road noise because the infotainment system is struggling to boot up.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 15, 2016, 10:15:00 PM
I just wish I could permanently disable this annoying, useless feature  >:(

im thinking of getting a mk3 and this is one of the features i hate along with tire presure sensors, auto lights/wipers, auto lock and walk away, push button start and no real radio dial just touch screen control

have i missed anything lol

Only why are you buying it if you don't like it.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: monkeydave on August 15, 2016, 11:17:34 PM

Only why are you buying it if you don't like it.
[/quote]

because what choice do i have? every other car has the same stuff on it as well and im looking at an S model too
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: Skyrider on August 16, 2016, 08:28:29 AM
Dacia Logan? Bigger, cheaper, and only basic gadgets.
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: monkeydave on August 16, 2016, 10:41:34 AM
Dacia Logan? Bigger, cheaper, and only basic gadgets.

really? renault ? no thanks
Title: Re: Start Stop on New Jazz
Post by: monkeydave on August 16, 2016, 10:52:17 AM
There are no tyre pressure sensors. The vehicle just compares wheel rotation speeds and warns of an anomaly. It's a simple and reliable system. Auto lights mostly work okay. Auto main-beam is nearly perfect and a huge boon. I agree on the infotainment unit though. Poorly designed UI, too much reliance on touch technology and buggy. Nothing says "congratulations on paying £18,000 for a new Jazz" quite like having to drive for two minutes listening to the engine and road noise because the infotainment system is struggling to boot up.
[/quote]

well at least that is some relief  thanks for letting me know,  i couldn't be putting up with the valve sensors