Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 => Topic started by: Wilderbeest on November 15, 2020, 05:55:04 AM

Title: FUEL
Post by: Wilderbeest on November 15, 2020, 05:55:04 AM
Recently since May, due to an EML , on the dash , I decided to try 99 octane  fuel , from Tesco.
What a  difference it makes to my old Jazz.  (132000M)

Its positively lively, responds better , and is a pleasure to drive.
Ok , the fuel is a bit dearer , but, just the throttle response is worth it.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Kremmen on November 15, 2020, 06:36:24 AM
Interesting, because these engines are optimised for 95 RON.

I did a lengthy mpg comparison many years ago with a 1.8 Civic using Shell, BP and Tesco, using 95, 97/98, and 99 RON depending on what each company supplied.

Same commute roads, same time of day,  etc. Taking in motorways, A and B roads.

I could find no driving difference and the mpg increase was tiny < 3mpg, even though, at the time, BP were quoting a large tank range increase.

Since then I've stuck with Tesco 95 without issue.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: peteo48 on November 15, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
I have been using premium fuel in my Mk3 for the last 4 fill ups. I have noticed no discernible difference in mpg - indeed other variables like driving style, ambient temperature and traffic density all much more significant imho.

But I am now convinced the car is livelier with the higher octane fuel although, here again, that could be down to the engine loosening up (bought new in January). I also note that, on the Mk3, the compression ratio is high - 13.5:1. Does this mean the knock sensor has allowed the timing to advance?

I'm going to do another premium fuel fill then go back to 95 RON and see, after a few fill ups, if the car feels less lively.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Westy36 on November 15, 2020, 01:11:29 PM
The great fuel debate! I've read the pros and cons and have oscillated between supermarket and branded fuel for years. So, its interesting to read Kremmen post and his conclusion.

I now use either our local Texaco, which has a good reward scheme and the family that own it are so friendly, or our local Asda. I can tell no difference between the fuels, so I shop based on convenience at the time.  :D
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Jocko on November 15, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
I felt the car felt slightly livelier when I used 99 RON (possibly just placebo effect) and I saw a marginal improvement in mpg but not enough to justify the increased cost. Hence, I reverted to 95 RON supermarket fuel.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: VicW on November 15, 2020, 02:25:58 PM
Like Kremmen I have carried out extensive long term use of higher octane fuels and my conclusion was that they are not cost effective.
You have got to do several fill-ups before you are running on neat higher octane fuel as it is otherwise being diluted by the lower octane stuff in the tank.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: equaliser on November 15, 2020, 03:19:34 PM
Shell V-Power (99 RON) definitely makes a difference on my MK3 CVT, it'll hold onto lower RPM climbing hills. I live up a hill and also my workplace is on a hill, with the standard 95 RON the engine runs at 3000rpm to climb the hills but on 99 RON it'll stay at 2000 rpm at the same speed (40mph). I also felt the difference in torque and sharper throttle response with my previous MK9 Civic which made it nicer to drive. I only do about 4-5000 miles per annum so the additional cost is negligible to me. Your mileage may vary as they say but I'm a believer!
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Kremmen on November 15, 2020, 03:39:04 PM
Tesco jollop is actually Esso.

Many a time I've seen an Esso tanker at the filling station. You also get Tesco clubcard points at Esso stations so there's some collaboration going on.

I don't have any hills near me and my acceleration is not miles per hour but miles per fortnight so 95 does me nicely.


Just found my post on Civinfo from July 2009:

Quote
I've tried BP Ultimate Super Unleaded (97RON), Tesco High Octane 99RON), normal BP Ultimate (95RON) and normal Tesco unleaded (95RON).

To make the test more realistic, in my case (200 miles a week), I needed to use each for a month to ensure that on the last week I was still not running a cocktail of petrol.

and the results in my 1.8 i-shift = ........................

.............not a blind bit of difference with my mpg staying constant throughout, and no noticeable change in engine smoothness or performance !

The Which? magazine did a similar test with the same results across a range of vehicles.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Westy36 on November 15, 2020, 03:57:42 PM
I felt the car felt slightly livelier when I used 99 RON (possibly just placebo effect) and I saw a marginal improvement in mpg but not enough to justify the increased cost. Hence, I reverted to 95 RON supermarket fuel.

I think thats part of it, the placebo effect. "I've paid more so it must be better"

The only time Ive used 99 RON, is in a car we had that would only run on 99 RON. Back when it was selling for 1.60 a litre and the car did sub 30mpg. Oh how I love the Jazz economy of 50+ mpg and 95 RON at current prices.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Wilderbeest on November 15, 2020, 05:51:56 PM
I drive my car extremely hard , using all the revs where possible.  And that's where I have noticed the difference , at the performance end of its use.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: springswood on November 16, 2020, 10:36:59 AM
I didn't know my Jazz had a performance end  ;)
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Westy36 on November 16, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
I didn't know my Jazz had a performance end  ;)

 :D 
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: peteo48 on November 16, 2020, 12:03:17 PM
Tesco jollop is actually Esso.

Many a time I've seen an Esso tanker at the filling station. You also get Tesco clubcard points at Esso stations so there's some collaboration going on.

I don't have any hills near me and my acceleration is not miles per hour but miles per fortnight so 95 does me nicely.


Just found my post on Civinfo from July 2009:

Quote
I've tried BP Ultimate Super Unleaded (97RON), Tesco High Octane 99RON), normal BP Ultimate (95RON) and normal Tesco unleaded (95RON).

To make the test more realistic, in my case (200 miles a week), I needed to use each for a month to ensure that on the last week I was still not running a cocktail of petrol.

and the results in my 1.8 i-shift = ........................

.............not a blind bit of difference with my mpg staying constant throughout, and no noticeable change in engine smoothness or performance !

The Which? magazine did a similar test with the same results across a range of vehicles.

Pretty sure Greenergy supply both Tesco and Esso so I reckon you are spot on.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: olduser1 on November 16, 2020, 09:47:41 PM
Maybe its all about driver choice, over 35 years running Subaru's on Shell I found the car travelled further & performance improved.
Swopping over to BP superunleaded a few years ago with 2011 Jazz much better running.
When V Power reached 1.48 p litre changed to Esso .
Current Jazz on Tesco 99 oct @ 1.16 smoother running. its your choice.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: bus_ter on November 22, 2020, 05:30:13 PM
I occasionally put premium (Shell VPower usually) in the tank. Maybe every 5 or 6 fill ups. I do it for the alleged cleaning properties, figuring it will help keep the engine internals a little cleaner.

I've not noticed any apparent performance or MPG change. If the engine is not tuned to make use of higher RON fuel and tighter timings (which I don't believe it is), then there's no way you will gain any extra performance?
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: equaliser on November 22, 2020, 05:46:41 PM
I occasionally put premium (Shell VPower usually) in the tank. Maybe every 5 or 6 fill ups. I do it for the alleged cleaning properties, figuring it will help keep the engine internals a little cleaner.

I've not noticed any apparent performance or MPG change. If the engine is not tuned to make use of higher RON fuel and tighter timings (which I don't believe it is), then there's no way you will gain any extra performance?

I'm sure you're right about the earlier Jazz engines but the MK3 with it's high compression and knock sensors certainly does alter the tune for higher octane, you can see it clearly advancing the ignition further compared to 95RON if you monitor the timings like I do with the ODBII Car Scanner app. As for alleged cleaning abilities, that remains to be seen but it can't hurt!
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Jocko on November 22, 2020, 05:58:50 PM
The Mk 1 does too. ScanGauge shows that. But the improvement doesn't justify the cost as far as I an concerned.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: peteo48 on November 23, 2020, 10:53:25 AM
I occasionally put premium (Shell VPower usually) in the tank. Maybe every 5 or 6 fill ups. I do it for the alleged cleaning properties, figuring it will help keep the engine internals a little cleaner.

I've not noticed any apparent performance or MPG change. If the engine is not tuned to make use of higher RON fuel and tighter timings (which I don't believe it is), then there's no way you will gain any extra performance?

I'm sure you're right about the earlier Jazz engines but the MK3 with it's high compression and knock sensors certainly does alter the tune for higher octane, you can see it clearly advancing the ignition further compared to 95RON if you monitor the timings like I do with the ODBII Car Scanner app. As for alleged cleaning abilities, that remains to be seen but it can't hurt!

Really interesting. I've been looking for proof, one way or the other, for some time. My low mileage means I fill up less than once a month and, frequently, when the tank is nowhere near empty if there is an offer going on. The extra cost is insignificant if you don't do many miles. I'd think differently if I was still doing 10,000 miles a year but I've only done 2100 since January.

On premium fuels, John Cadogan did a You Tube video about Toyota and other hybrids needing premium fuel. In Australia the bog standard fuel is 91 and 95 is seen as premium so I'm sure using our 95 petrol won't do any harm.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: equaliser on November 23, 2020, 03:45:53 PM
Really interesting. I've been looking for proof, one way or the other, for some time. My low mileage means I fill up less than once a month and, frequently, when the tank is nowhere near empty if there is an offer going on. The extra cost is insignificant if you don't do many miles. I'd think differently if I was still doing 10,000 miles a year but I've only done 2100 since January.

On premium fuels, John Cadogan did a You Tube video about Toyota and other hybrids needing premium fuel. In Australia the bog standard fuel is 91 and 95 is seen as premium so I'm sure using our 95 petrol won't do any harm.

Certainly nothing wrong with 95RON, as you say it's more premium than other countries. If I was you and not doing a lot of miles then I would use the higher RON petrol as it won't degrade as quickly as the the lower RON when left sitting in your tank, just a thought!
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: Jocko on November 23, 2020, 04:22:03 PM
From Wiki.

Australia: "regular" unleaded fuel is 91 RON, "premium" unleaded with 95 RON is widely available, and 98 RON fuel is also reasonably common. Shell used to sell 100 RON fuel (5% ethanol content) from a small number of service stations, most of which are located in major cities (stopped in August 2008). United Petroleum used to sell 100 RON unleaded fuel (10% ethanol content) at a small number of its service stations (originally only two, but then expanded to 67 outlets nationwide) (stopped in September 2014). All fuel in Australia is unleaded except for some aviation fuels. E85 unleaded fuel is also available at several United service stations across the country. Recently E10 fuel has become quite common, and is available at almost every major fuel station, except in Western Australia. The Australian government makes stations advertise E10 as 94 RON.
Title: Re: FUEL
Post by: degzi on November 25, 2020, 01:23:17 AM
If you notice a difference then your ready for a service.

Clean and gap your plugs and get a new air filter. You can wash your old air filter and re-use once dry.

Should be done every 6months to keep in tip top condition.