Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: TnTkr on October 18, 2020, 02:41:32 PM

Title: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 18, 2020, 02:41:32 PM
I another thread I have been complaining about the narrow and shallow high-beam of the GK5 Jazz's factory LED headlights. To make it visible I made a comparison with pretty decent H4 halogen headlights of 1989 Peugeot 309. Unfortunately I don't have a camera, where I could fix the aperture, shutter speed and sensitivity between pictures, so the difference in brightness cannot be evaluated from these pictures, but they prove my point regarding the beam size.

Pictures are taken on same point holding the camera on top of the steering wheel. There is about an hour time between the shots, so the dark blue sky visible at the end of the road in halogen pictures is already all black in LED pictures.

The low-beam of the LED headlights has very bright and wide beam, whereas the high-beam does not give so much more. You can see that the high-beam of the H4 halogen gives more light to sides and shows higher, which is much better on winding and hilly roads.

Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 18, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
From these pictures, disregarding the brightness, I think the coverage of the LED headlights is better than the H4. How much more coverage do you need than edge to edge. The H4's fall off dramatically towards the edges. Or is it just me?
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 18, 2020, 03:54:48 PM
LED is superior in the area where low-beam spots, but if you look the lower branches of the spruces on both sides of the road on high-beam, H4 halogens give there much better coverage than LEDs and that's what I'm missing on country roads. Or on highways as well, I'd like to see the moose which is 100 meters away and 20 meters from road. Jazz's LED high-beam doesn't throw any light there. For scale, the white pole which seems to be at the end of the road is about 100 meters from the car and the road is about 3 meters wide.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: John Ratsey on October 18, 2020, 05:54:24 PM
Have you tried using the headlight adjuster control? It's meant to be used to compensate for different loads but have you got it to the minimum load setting as that gets the lights pointing highest.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 18, 2020, 06:49:06 PM
With LED lights there is no manual adjuster, adjustment is automatic as required by the UN/ECE regulations.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 19, 2020, 08:03:39 AM
If you regularly drive on roads such as those (or Rally stages as I would call them) would it not be an idea to fit a light bar and a couple of Auxilliary Driving Lamps?
I had lamps fitted to my FIAT 126 and they made an amazing difference. When switched on, they worked with the main beam, extinguishing when I selected dip but being independently switched; I only used them when I needed them.

(https://i.imgur.com/SMILmdC.jpg)
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 19, 2020, 10:02:25 AM
Let's put it that way that I regularly drive unlit roads.

As it seems that high-beam reflectors are physically same part with low-beam reflectors, they are not separately adjustable. Therefore auxiliary lamps would be the only way to get any improvement. I wouldn't like to spoil the streamlined looks of Jazz's nose with decent sized lights, but maybe I could install a light bar behind the front grille. Of course the grille prevents some of the light to go out, but I guess that wouldn't be not too much.

Now that raises an electrical question: Can I take the control current for the auxiliary light relay from the headlight wire as used to do in cars with conventional electrics?

Your 126 looks great! That is truly a handy wee city car!
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: jazzaro on October 19, 2020, 11:17:13 AM
With LED lights there is no manual adjuster, adjustment is automatic as required by the UN/ECE regulations.
Depending from brightness, because GR Jazz (the new hybrid)  has Bi-LED headlights and manual adjuster.
I should read last updates about UNECE R48 and R112.
Just for curiosity, your LED group should have 3 emitters; which one is dedicated to low beam and which to high beam?
Do they work together in high beam mode?
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 19, 2020, 12:46:24 PM
Just for curiosity, your LED group should have 3 emitters; which one is dedicated to low beam and which to high beam?
Do they work together in high beam mode?

Two outer are low beam and the inner one is high beam. All three are lit on high beam mode.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: John Ratsey on October 19, 2020, 03:33:51 PM
With LED lights there is no manual adjuster, adjustment is automatic as required by the UN/ECE regulations.
See the attached for what the manual for the UK Mk 4 Jazz (which has LED headlights) says and look for a little wheel, probably between steering wheel and door. If you've got it set to 2 or 3 and there's only you in the car then the beam will be too low.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: jazzaro on October 19, 2020, 04:28:19 PM
With LED lights there is no manual adjuster, adjustment is automatic as required by the UN/ECE regulations.
See the attached for what the manual for the UK Mk 4 Jazz (which has LED headlights) says and look for a little wheel, probably between steering wheel and door. If you've got it set to 2 or 3 and there's only you in the car then the beam will be too low.
No, GK3 Jazz have auto leveling with LED lights. GR Jazz have manual adjusting, as Suzukis Swift and Ignis.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 19, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
The manual for the new Jazz and Crosstar shows a headlamp height adjuster as John shows.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: springswood on October 20, 2020, 10:11:44 AM
Since seeing comments about how LED bulbs light up the verges well I've understood why so many of the cars which overtake me on the motorway dazzle me in my mirrors. I don't think you can have one without the other.

[Reference to deleted post removed by Admin]
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: culzean on October 20, 2020, 11:01:28 AM
Since seeing comments about how LED bulbs light up the verges well I've understood why so many of the cars which overtake me on the motorway dazzle me in my mirrors. I don't think you can have one without the other.

[Reference to deleted post removed by Admin]

If you look at the standard MOT beam check your lights will fail if there is not a 'kick up' to the nearside, it is a safety thing to have more light on the verge,  as this allows you to see edge of road when traffic is approaching at night. 

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-mot-headlamp-aim-test-is-changing/

[Reference to deleted post removed by Admin]
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 20, 2020, 11:38:41 AM
Coming back to the lousy performance of Jazz LED headlights' high beam and ways to improve it, I found a pretty well performing LED lightbar, which BTW is made in UK and UNECE R112 approved for road use: https://www.lazerlamps.com/linear-12-elite.html (https://www.lazerlamps.com/linear-12-elite.html)

It probably needs to mount below the license plate behind or on the lower grille, which is not optimal from performance point of view, but there isn't any nice place above the bumper.

Now I need to figure out how to connect that so that it works together with factory headlights' high beam.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: jazzaro on October 20, 2020, 04:32:13 PM
Another way could be this: https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/90mm-modules/index.html
Changing the 90mm fog light with a Hella bifunction led, where the low beam would be the fog light and the high beam would be activated together with the OEM high beam, empowering them.
Nice but costy, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 20, 2020, 05:32:09 PM
I happen to know those lights, and they are not that great, especially when mounted as low as Jazz fog lights are. We've tested it and the 20 year old halogen variant of that same 90 mm Hella light gives better beam pattern than the LED module. Besides it is not legal to use low beam headlight instead of a fog light.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Kenneve on October 21, 2020, 09:37:46 AM
I've been running my Mk3 Jazz with it's OEM LED headlights for just over 12 months now and I can't see any real difference between them and the Classic-car-leds, that I previously had fitted to my Mk2 Jazz.
Both are a vast improvement on the H4 filament, 'candles' of the earlier cars.

There may be a grey area, as to whether the Classic-car-leds are legal or not, but if they pass a MOT, then that's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 22, 2020, 06:24:00 AM
When studying the possibilities to install auxiliary headlights I took out the plug for the left headlight. After a while a warning symbol "check headlights" came on. Well that was not any surprise, it's supposed to come. I then put the plug back and everything works again, but the warning remains. I don't believe there is nothing wrong, I assume it just keeps showing the warning until clearing the trouble codes.

So I need to clear the error message. I can recognize three possible ways to get the warning disappear:
1. go to the dealer and ask resetting the warning - I'm going there next week anyways, so that is a backup
2. reset the car by disconnecting the battery for a while - how log time is needed?
3. clear codes with a suitable device - can this be done with scangauge or any other generic code reader?

Any suggestions, please?
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Westy36 on October 22, 2020, 09:05:11 AM
I had lamps fitted to my FIAT 126 and they made an amazing difference. When switched on, they worked with the main beam, extinguishing when I selected dip but being independently switched; I only used them when I needed them.

What a cool car!  8) Often referred to as the "Polish Porsche".  Had the good fortune to drive one many years ago, great fun.

Re Moose, I recall Saab used to design their cars with Moose impact as part of the brief.

A real problem in your part of the world. I had a collision with a deer at the start of 2020 that wrote of the car, so no laughing matter. Roof mounted light bar powered via 12v socket perhaps?
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 22, 2020, 09:18:48 AM
What a cool car!  8) Often referred to as the "Polish Porsche".
Mine was a genuine Italian one, pre-Polski FIAT.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Westy36 on October 22, 2020, 06:20:14 PM
What a cool car!  8) Often referred to as the "Polish Porsche".
Mine was a genuine Italian one, pre-Polski FIAT.

Almost feels like we should have a seperate thread on Jocko's cool cars from the past !!  :D

Proper Italian one. Were they better made? Did you keep it long? What happened to it?
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 22, 2020, 07:50:59 PM
I have no idea what the Polish ones were like, but FIAT made mine, so it was cr@p. I had it from its first MOT until it was eight years old. I then passed it on to my sister-in-law who ran it for three years before scrapping it. The interesting thing was some young tearaways bought it for spares but instead raced around in it, uninsured and with no MOT, until they crashed it into some poor chap's car, parked outside his house. They then scarpered but were eventually traced and charged. Probably got a slap on the wrist. How we know the final part of the story is the police went to speak to my sister-in-law as the last registered keeper.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 23, 2020, 05:46:48 AM
So I need to clear the error message. I can recognize three possible ways to get the warning disappear:
1. go to the dealer and ask resetting the warning - I'm going there next week anyways, so that is a backup
2. reset the car by disconnecting the battery for a while - how log time is needed?
3. clear codes with a suitable device - can this be done with scangauge or any other generic code reader?

I used method number 2 successfully. Had the battery cables off for about five minutes and after reconnecting the warning message was gone. I still would like to know if that kind of body electrics code i.e. message not related to engine could be cleared with scangauge.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: Westy36 on October 23, 2020, 09:40:08 PM
I have no idea what the Polish ones were like, but FIAT made mine, so it was cr@p. I had it from its first MOT until it was eight years old. I then passed it on to my sister-in-law who ran it for three years before scrapping it. The interesting thing was some young tearaways bought it for spares but instead raced around in it, uninsured and with no MOT, until they crashed it into some poor chap's car, parked outside his house. They then scarpered but were eventually traced and charged. Probably got a slap on the wrist. How we know the final part of the story is the police went to speak to my sister-in-law as the last registered keeper.

Tragic end to the poor old Fiat. It lasted well though. 11 yrs and still going.
Title: Re: Jazz LED headlights
Post by: TnTkr on October 27, 2020, 08:56:34 PM
Now that raises an electrical question: Can I take the control current for the auxiliary light relay from the headlight wire as used to do in cars with conventional electrics?

Does anybody have information where it'd be best place to get the control current for auxiliary high beam in case of LED headlights?

The multi-pin connector at the headlight is so tiny I feel uncomfortable to work with. I am afraid of short-cutting pins with the tip of an old fashioned voltage meter or test lamp.