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Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: csp on October 15, 2020, 02:44:28 PM

Title: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: csp on October 15, 2020, 02:44:28 PM
https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/cars/media/pressreleases/311690/new-honda-jazz-ehev-makes-the-final-seven-of-autobest-2021?utm_campaign=Syndicated_311690&utm_medium=RSS_All%20Press%20Releases&utm_source=hondanews.eu
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: John Ratsey on October 15, 2020, 03:36:47 PM
Someone, somewhere seems to have noticed that the new Jazz is a well-engineered vehicle. The UK motoring press generally missed this, perhaps because their brief test drives didn't provide opportunity to appreciate its strengths but only time to note that it didn't drive like a Fiesta.

That said, if Honda are happy with the current Jazz sales then they may not be actively pushing for greater positive press coverage. The HR-V was a much-anticipated vehicle that people expected to pick up awards but went away with nothing (probably due to initial supply constraints and quality problems with the Mixican factory).
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Jocko on October 15, 2020, 04:11:58 PM
Autobest's take on it.

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-reviews/honda-jazz-hybrid-2020-review/ (https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-reviews/honda-jazz-hybrid-2020-review/)
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Downsizer on October 15, 2020, 06:54:05 PM
Autobest's take on it.

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-reviews/honda-jazz-hybrid-2020-review/ (https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-reviews/honda-jazz-hybrid-2020-review/)
This review, like others, gives praise for the feature that “cleverly mimics regular automatic gearchanges“.  I don’t see the point of this mimicry, but I haven’t driven one.  Do those of you who have bought one think it is an advantage?
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: John Ratsey on October 15, 2020, 09:33:11 PM
This review, like others, gives praise for the feature that “cleverly mimics regular automatic gearchanges“.  I don’t see the point of this mimicry, but I haven’t driven one.  Do those of you who have bought one think it is an advantage?
I've not noticed this "feature" as I rarely need to drive the vehicle in a manner where the engine noise is noticeable and, in the absence of a tachometer, sound is the only indicator of engine speed. However, I suspect the engine has its preferred speeds, eg around 2000 rpm for optimum efficiency (but will go as low as about 1600 rpm if in direct drive mode (I don't recall the reviewer commenting on that feature)). Apart from revs needing to be in proportion to vehicle speed when in direct drive, the engine does avoid small changes to speed in order to match power output to power needed - the system lets the battery handle the difference. This may be deliberate design to avoid frequent changes in engine speed and sound or it might be that Honda's operating algorithms were developed for several engine speeds which covered the entire performance range. 
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Kremmen on October 16, 2020, 04:38:28 AM
The latest generation of Civic, the 10G, also has CVT with pseudo gear change and from owner reports it works very well.

I guess Honda have just copied it across.
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: BigRon on October 16, 2020, 08:53:14 AM
I agree with John, have not noticed any pseudo gear changes or when moving from battery to hybrid mode and then to direct drive. Used car scanner to see rpm and it ranges between around 1400 and 2000 when not running off the battery.

Have driven a Kia Niro hybrid which has twin clutch auto and the gear changes are almost unnoticable.
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Downsizer on October 16, 2020, 10:14:08 AM
Thanks for these comments.  I suspect reviewers are mistaking the programmed adjustments in engine speed when not in direct drive as "pseudo gear changes".
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Kenneve on October 16, 2020, 10:43:37 AM
I still can't get a proper reply to my question asked in an earlier post:
What engine braking is available, when descending a very steep hill ie 1-4 or steeper.?
In a conventional car, one would normally change down to a lower gear whilst descending.
Is the regenerative braking as effective?
Please don't tell me, 'modern brakes don't fade in such situations' !!
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: BigRon on October 16, 2020, 10:50:37 AM
Haven't driven down a 1-4 hill but have driven through the Clyde Tunnel in Glasgow which has a 30MPH limit in B and has slowed to below 30, in fact had to press the 'loud pedal' to get the car to 30 going down the incline.
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: ColinB on October 16, 2020, 12:06:57 PM
I still can't get a proper reply to my question asked in an earlier post:
What engine braking is available, when descending a very steep hill ie 1-4 or steeper.?
In a conventional car, one would normally change down to a lower gear whilst descending.
Is the regenerative braking as effective?
Please don't tell me, 'modern brakes don't fade in such situations' !!

Just to add a slightly different flavour to Kenneve's question. I can understand that regenerative braking works well, especially if you use the B setting so I have no concerns there. But it won't need a very long hill to charge the battery fully, so what happens then? Does it keep regenerating but dumping the energy to a heat sink somewhere (atmosphere?), or does it stop regenerating and you lose some of the braking effect (electric "brake fade"?)?
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Jocko on October 16, 2020, 01:53:09 PM
From Tesla in 2007:
Limitations: Regenerative braking is necessarily limited when the batteries are fully charged. Because the additional charge from regenerative braking would cause the voltage of a full battery to rise above a safe level, our motor controller will limit regen torque in this case.

And from a Model S owner in 2017

I live on a mountain at about 1500 feet. To get to town, I have to drive 2 miles to about 1600 feet, then 4 miles down the other side of the mountain to almost sea level. When I leave home and my Model S is charged to its daily amount of charge (80% or so), I’m heading up the mountain to the top, so the regenerative braking does most of the work of deceleration, and my speed is mostly regulated by the accelerator and regen rather than needing the disc brakes, except for the steepest grades, sharp curves, or stops.
Then I get to the top of the mountain and head down. About half-way down the mountain, the battery will fill enough that I’ll notice that I have to use my brakes to slow down, just like I would in a car with no regenerative braking. When this happens, a dashed line will appear on the energy indicator to show that the regen is limited (of course, driving down a steep, windy mountain road, I rarely notice this, as looking down long enough to spot it could be fatal).
Note that the regen is limited long before the battery reaches full charge. The regen becomes limited at about where the battery was charged to when I left home. It does not get anywhere near 100% charge before I lose regen.
If I have max-charged the car for a long trip, I will lose regen almost immediately (the first part of the drive is downhill before I go back up), and lose it much sooner as I go down the other side.
At this point it is just normal driving for me, so I don’t notice it much (except at max charge).


Trains use resistors to dissipate the energy generated during regeneration and it is also possible to use a Supercapacitor, I believe. Neither I would imagine, fitted to the new Jazz.
From what I have read, the Jazz uses the energy, via the generator, to turn the engine, without any fuel supplied, exactly as my 2006 Jazz does with DFCO.
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: culzean on October 16, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
The big boys use a 'retarder' to slow the vehicle on inclines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retarder_(mechanical_engineering)
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Jocko on October 16, 2020, 04:38:05 PM
The Volvo Plaxton coaches I drove had a lever on the column for the retarder.
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: Kenneve on October 17, 2020, 09:45:32 AM
What we really need is a member who lives in Devon, who could try descending Countisbury Hill down in to Lynmouth, or even better, descending the hill from Lynton to Lynmouth and report back.
Both hills would be severe test of the retardation braking effect.

Sorry to bang on about this, but I come from the old school, where we don't rely on our brakes entirely!
Title: Re: NEW HONDA JAZZ E:HEV MAKES THE FINAL SEVEN OF AUTOBEST 2021
Post by: richardfrost on October 17, 2020, 04:11:50 PM
Just over a mile from me is the Cragg Vale hill, well known to cyclists as the longest continual incline in England. Not steep, just long, and not much need to use the brakes apart from on a couple of hairy bends.

https://cyclinguphill.com/cragg-vale-hill-climb/

My Toyota hybrid doesn't have B mode though, just virtual gears which I never use.