Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: RobS on February 26, 2020, 09:20:01 AM

Title: Spare tyre
Post by: RobS on February 26, 2020, 09:20:01 AM
I had a Corsa before the Jazz and bought a "next size down" full width spare tyre as the Corsa, too, was supplied only with gunk. Dimensions of the spare are 185/70/R14. Given it's a 4-hole fixing would this fit my 2017 Jazz S as a temporary spare (rolling diameter is ~2% different - but could always change the tyre on it to better match the jazz)?

Rob
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: culzean on February 26, 2020, 10:09:07 AM
I had a Corsa before the Jazz and bought a "next size down" full width spare tyre as the Corsa, too, was supplied only with gunk. Dimensions of the spare are 185/70/R14. Given it's a 4-hole fixing would this fit my 2017 Jazz S as a temporary spare (rolling diameter is ~2% different - but could always change the tyre on it to better match the jazz)?

Rob

IIRC Rover and Corsa wheels will fit on the Honda hub..

If it is used as a spare it does not have to be perfect - just look at the skinny wheelbarrow tyre they sell as spacesaver.  The only way you will know if it fits is to try it,  the important bits are stud PCD, the bore dimension ( should be the same as Honda to fit tightly over the centralising boss on the hub - it is there to take the forces off the studs and make sure the wheel runs true ) and does the inside of the rim clear the brake calipers.  Some will argue about ET ) distance from mounting face to centre of rim ) but if only used as a temporary spare not a problem - couldn't handle any worse than that spcesaver,  I have used a spacesaver and would never want to repeat the experience if i could avoid it...   

The 2% may or may not affect the TPMS deflation warning,  but so will the spacesaver so just have to put up with the picture of a flat tyre on the display... at least you will know why the alarm was triggered.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: RobS on February 27, 2020, 08:37:31 AM
Thanks I'll give it a try.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: Roddy0000 on February 27, 2020, 09:58:38 PM
Thanks I'll give it a try.
I donít want to put a downer on this but do contact your insurance company and check with them that it is non-Honda wheel, some insurances say itís ok, some donít. 
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: Ozzie on February 28, 2020, 04:03:30 PM
Yes it will fit, I have a Corsa steel wheel as my spare wheel.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: RobS on February 29, 2020, 08:58:02 AM
Thanks I'll give it a try.
I donít want to put a downer on this but do contact your insurance company and check with them that it is non-Honda wheel, some insurances say itís ok, some donít.

Will have a look. Thanks.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: RobS on February 29, 2020, 09:00:00 AM
Yes it will fit, I have a Corsa steel wheel as my spare wheel.

Excellent news - thanks. Just to be absolutely sure, these are the 14" steel wheels?
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: culzean on February 29, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
Yes it will fit, I have a Corsa steel wheel as my spare wheel.

Excellent news - thanks. Just to be absolutely sure, these are the 14" steel wheels?

The studs will fit and the centre boss will be same diameter,  but you really need to make sure that the inside of the rim has clearance for the brake caliper before installing it into the boot as a spare.

Here is a useful guide to wheels - the Jazz wheel boss is 56.1mm diameter

https://www.wheelfitment.eu/PCD/4x100/56.1.html
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: RobS on February 29, 2020, 12:22:16 PM
That is useful thanks. The Corsa wheel boss is 56.6mm which, as its larger, means it should fit. But I still need to check the brake calipers though.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: sparky Paul on February 29, 2020, 12:44:56 PM
Just bear in mind that it's not strictly legal as a spare if you are mixing tyre sizes on an axle.

Space savers are clearly marked as temporary use only, and are only allowed in the Motor Vehicle Construction & Use Regulations to get you home with speed limited. Any other odd spare will not comply with the regs.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: culzean on February 29, 2020, 01:11:01 PM
Nothing stopping you going faster than 50 on a space saver,  but it is probably the bends ( i speak from experience ) that are the worst.

The whole idea of any spare except a full size one with a good tyre is a temporary measure to get you home or to a garage, those spacesavers may be legal, but that does not mean they are safer than a tyre with more rubber on the road.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: Kenneve on February 29, 2020, 04:47:30 PM
Several websites say the speed limit for space savers is 50mph, 80kph, according to European law.
I suppose now we are out, we could go faster, but in my opinion itís an accident waiting to happen😟
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: sparky Paul on February 29, 2020, 07:19:25 PM
Nothing stopping you going faster than 50 on a space saver

Except the Police, if they clock you doing over fifty. It's one of the reasons they are obvious from a distance, and exceeding 50mph with a temporary use tyre is an offence.

Spacesaver spares do not comply with Regulation 27 of The Road Vehicle (Construction & Use) Regulations, and are thus technically illegal as a road wheel, but are given specific exemption in the legislation for emergency use under 50mph - provided they are clearly marked as such, and are fitted with the correct 'temporary use' high pressure tyre.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: TnTkr on June 05, 2020, 08:56:16 AM
My recently bought M19 Jazz Dynamic has a fixing point for the spare and I have been planning to get a full size spare tyre. But the I have been thinking the consequence of the additional weight. One beauty of Jazz Dynamic is good power-to-weight-ratio.

Full size spare is adding weight and even adding it to very rear of the car, therefore I have doubts that it can lower the rear suspension visibly. Has anybody tried and measured it? The effect to the performance is easily calculated.

On the other hand, a light alloy wheel could reduce the effect. What could be the lightest 15x6 or 16x6 alloy wheel for spare?
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: Jocko on June 05, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
The car is designed for five adults, three of whom are in the back. The weight if the spare tyre will have no effect on the rear suspension height. I have a steel spare in my Mk1 and in or out makes no difference.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: TnTkr on June 05, 2020, 09:05:29 AM
It is indeed designed to carry maximum five adults, but with htat maximum load it is far away from the nominal height. Even two kids (total about 50 kg) in the rear seat makes the rear of the car visibly lower. Spare wheel weights less, but is much more rear.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: jazzaro on June 05, 2020, 09:42:31 AM
Full size spare is adding weight and even adding it to very rear of the car, therefore I have doubts that it can lower the rear suspension visibly. Has anybody tried and measured it? The effect to the performance is easily calculated.

I often drive with a rear passenger and the trunk full. The car lowers, but there are no consequences for the handling. Performances are reduced, but the handling remains very very good even with full load at high speed, and I like it very much.
If you want to worsen the handling, put a set od Ecocontact6 or other soft tires; this car want tires with hard shoulders, I made a mistake replacing the OEM Dunlops with the Continental. Next time, Dunlop or Yokohama...
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: culzean on June 05, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
On the other hand, a light alloy wheel could reduce the effect. What could be the lightest 15x6 or 16x6 alloy wheel for spare?

I have both steel wheels with winter tyres ( Nokian, great in snow ) and alloys with summer tyres and the steel wheels are lighter than the alloys - with alloys it is all about style - the cross section of the alloy has to be more than steel so no weight saving,  and I have never seen a steel rim crack or corrode under the tyre bead ( causing a slow leak ), which has happened on alloys. Alloys are a PITA for maintenance and having to get them refurbished every so often at no small cost ( diamond cut are the worst ),  with steel it is basically fit and forget ( with maybe a coat of Hammerite paint after many years ).
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: TnTkr on June 05, 2020, 09:53:12 AM
I have both steel wheels with winter tyres ( Nokian, great in snow ) and alloys with summer tyres and the steel wheels are lighter than the alloys - with alloys it is all about style - the cross section of the alloy has to be more than steel so no weight saving,

This is interesting, thank you for this information. I have to dig this deeper.

In theory you should be able reduce weight with alloy but maybe the design is optimized for looks not for the strength. I wish there were pressed aluminium wheels (i.e. same construction as steel wheels) for Jazz. BMW had those in 90's and they were really light.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: sparky Paul on June 05, 2020, 11:11:07 AM
I would think that the suspension deflection from an additional 10-15Kg of a spare wheel would be barely measurable, let alone visible.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: TnTkr on June 10, 2020, 09:05:29 AM
I have both steel wheels with winter tyres ( Nokian, great in snow ) and alloys with summer tyres and the steel wheels are lighter than the alloys - with alloys it is all about style - the cross section of the alloy has to be more than steel so no weight saving,

This is interesting, thank you for this information. I have to dig this deeper.

In theory you should be able reduce weight with alloy but maybe the design is optimized for looks not for the strength. I wish there were pressed aluminium wheels (i.e. same construction as steel wheels) for Jazz. BMW had those in 90's and they were really light.

According to various sources from the internet Honda's 15x6 steel wheel weighs about 8,2 kg. Lightest same size (or 6,5) alloy wheels weighs less than 4 kg. Of course this is extreme and expensive, most alloys are around 7 kg.  The tyre itself weighs 7-8 kg. So there is possibility to save maximum 4 kg per wheel. Maybe not worthwhile regarding spare, but certainly interesting, although expensive.

Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: Jocko on June 10, 2020, 09:31:37 AM
Since I am carrying an extra 34 Kg round my waist I think my spare tyre will make a greater difference to my car's performance than the car's spare tyre!
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: Downsizer on June 10, 2020, 10:25:50 AM
According to various sources from the internet Honda's 15x6 steel wheel weighs about 8,2 kg. Lightest same size (or 6,5) alloy wheels weighs less than 4 kg. Of course this is extreme and expensive, most alloys are around 7 kg.  The tyre itself weighs 7-8 kg. So there is possibility to save maximum 4 kg per wheel. Maybe not worthwhile regarding spare, but certainly interesting, although expensive.
Over 50 years ago I worked in a magnesium foundry, and among other things we cast magnesium wheels for racing cars.  I expect we charged a lot for them - they were more or less hand made.  We also made battery plates for torpedoes, magnesium-thorium alloy for helicopter gearboxes, powder for explosives, and containers for uranium rods for the Magnox power stations.  It's a versatile metal, and inflammable in some conditions.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: TnTkr on June 10, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
For anyone who might be interested, I went and weighted the Honda accessory alloy wheel JA1503 (made in Italy) https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12042.0;attach=5911;image , and it had exactly the same 8,2 kg weight than the steel rim.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: Jocko on June 10, 2020, 10:30:36 AM
Magnesium powder was used for early photographic flashes and I remember our chemistry teacher burning a strip in class. We saw a green spot for rest of day. Elf and safety wouldn't allow that these days.
Title: Re: Spare tyre
Post by: TnTkr on June 10, 2020, 10:32:45 AM
Magnesium powder was used for early photographic flashes and I remember our chemistry teacher burning a strip in class. We saw a green spot for rest of day. Elf and safety wouldn't allow that these days.

As far as I know they still demonstrate burning magnesium strip in high school chemistry classes in Finland.