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Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazzz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: RichardA on December 08, 2019, 11:27:02 AM

Title: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: RichardA on December 08, 2019, 11:27:02 AM
(http://clubjazz.org/images/attach/jazz2020.jpg)

Press release for the Mk4 Honda Jazz due in 2020:

https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/cars/media/pressreleases/194431/all-new-jazz-leads-electrification-charge-for-honda

More information will added here when available.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on December 09, 2019, 07:35:49 PM
Waiting for tech specs..
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: langserve on December 24, 2019, 12:06:18 PM
Had to visit the dealer for a 6 month check up yesterday and picked up the brochure. I don't really see anything that makes me regret deciding to buy one of the last Mk3s of the production run. The body looks fine but it isn't really any different and if the rear looks more like a Mk1 in my opinion so good but nothing terribly exciting. The interior is good and the visibility even more impressive. And the colour schemes? Well I'll let you decide but I think its more a pitch to the young woman market than the duffer market.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on December 24, 2019, 02:16:41 PM
Waiting for tech specs..

Fuel consumption will be interesting given the new hybrid set up. My Mk3 is not great on fuel consumption although that is mostly down to short stop/start journeys in cold wet weather. I haven't seen 50 mpg as a long term average since my VW Golf TDI and that was a 2005 model.

I know one or two people who have the hybrid Yaris and that gets significantly better mpg than the Jazz in the urban environment. On the open road, much less so.

I'd be interested in a Mk4.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: langserve on December 25, 2019, 03:01:03 AM
No technical details I am afraid - anything but! Anyway, FWIW here is the page dealing with e:HEV. From what I can make out it claims to be the first HEV drive of its kind available in a small car. In the diagrams orange is mechanical energy and blue is electrical energy. The box at the top is the petrol engine and the box in the middle is the electric motors. There are three modes. Electric only, engine generates electricity and that electricity powers motors rather like a diesel electric train and finally conventional engine drives wheels. They say that the vast majority of daily driving will be in electric mode - longer and faster journeys will need mode 2 and 3 respectively. It will also be available in 4WD for people living in Hokkaido and such places which are covered in snow for 3 months of the year. Here I think it will be available in all models except basic but it will cost quite a lot extra. And that's what puts me off - I only do about 4,500 miles a year tops so I don't believe it is worth it. I haven't actually done the calculations though.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: nigelr on January 10, 2020, 12:03:27 PM
Will be very interested to see how efficient the new power train is.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on January 14, 2020, 09:31:13 AM
No technical details I am afraid - anything but! Anyway, FWIW here is the page dealing with e:HEV. From what I can make out it claims to be the first HEV drive of its kind available in a small car.
No, Toyota Yaris is already avaiable with a E-CVT hybrid system. Jazz is the first small car for Honda with a full hybrid E-CVT powertrain.
Quote
In the diagrams orange is mechanical energy and blue is electrical energy. The box at the top is the petrol engine and the box in the middle is the electric motors. There are three modes. Electric only, engine generates electricity and that electricity powers motors rather like a diesel electric train and finally conventional engine drives wheels. They say that the vast majority of daily driving will be in electric mode - longer and faster journeys will need mode 2 and 3 respectively. It will also be available in 4WD for people living in Hokkaido and such places which are covered in snow for 3 months of the year. Here I think it will be available in all models except basic but it will cost quite a lot extra. And that's what puts me off - I only do about 4,500 miles a year tops so I don't believe it is worth it. I haven't actually done the calculations though.
Jazz has always been avaiable in 4WD for japanese domestic market, such as Toyota Yaris and many other models. Most of them are not exported, in Europe we had only Subaru Justy, Suzuki Swift and Suzuki Wagon R+ offered also in 4WD. Present Jazz, called Fit in JDM, is sold with 1.3, 1.5, 1.5Hybrid I-DCD and each engine can have 4WD, both with manual or CVT gearbox (except the Hybrid sold only with the dual clutch gearbox).
Easily the Fit 4WD will have a similar  scheme to the CR-V.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on January 14, 2020, 11:27:57 AM
My understanding is that the new transmission is NOT a CVT but something completely different. I gather the driving experience will be more like that of an electric car most, if not all of which, have a single reduction gear.

In short they are claiming a significant technological advance from Toyota's system.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Downsizer on January 14, 2020, 12:45:37 PM
My understanding is that the new transmission is NOT a CVT but something completely different. I gather the driving experience will be more like that of an electric car most, if not all of which, have a single reduction gear.

In short they are claiming a significant technological advance from Toyota's system.
That's right, but it depends how you define the word "transmission".  There will be no mechanical gear ratio changes.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jocko on January 14, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
The definition of Continuously Variable Transmission is what matters here, and in most drivers minds, especially with regards to the Jazz, CVT is recognised as a belt drive, step-less, mechanical transmission.
However, in engineering their are many varieties of Continuously Variable Transmission, as can be gleaned from this Wiki entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission)
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: sparky Paul on January 14, 2020, 03:13:36 PM
There's no gearbox at all on the eCVT system, the engine switches between two modes - driving an alternator which charges the battery and/or drives the electric motor at low speeds, and a second mode via a clutch direct to the drivetrain via a single mechanical ratio for higher speed driving.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on January 14, 2020, 03:57:21 PM
That's what I understand sparky. The CVT on a hybrid Yaris is like the CVT on the current or Mk2 Jazz - the ratios change. The new Jazz has nothing in common, in terms of transmission, with the Toyota set up as seen on all their hybrid cars. Honda claim it is a completely new concept in a small car and I think they are justified in doing so.

I am looking forward to my test drive!
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: sparky Paul on January 14, 2020, 07:09:19 PM
The new Jazz has nothing in common, in terms of transmission, with the Toyota set up as seen on all their hybrid cars. Honda claim it is a completely new concept in a small car and I think they are justified in doing so.

I am looking forward to my test drive!

The system seems to work well in the CR-V, if the Jazz is using the same.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on January 14, 2020, 10:18:20 PM
Just a random thought and almost certainly not original but are we on the cusp of seeing manual transmissions start a long decline and, to be fair, CVT's and conventional automatics?
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jocko on January 14, 2020, 10:26:09 PM
I think that will be the case. BEVs do not require a gearbox and hybrids are moving that way too. Having driven automatics (buses and cars) for 25 years, my recent return to a manual transmission has confirmed what a PITA a manual vehicle is.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on January 15, 2020, 10:14:37 AM
That's what I understand sparky. The CVT on a hybrid Yaris is like the CVT on the current or Mk2 Jazz - the ratios change. The new Jazz has nothing in common, in terms of transmission, with the Toyota set up as seen on all their hybrid cars. Honda claim it is a completely new concept in a small car and I think they are justified in doing so.
Definetly no.
The E-CVT in hybrid yaris is the same of all other toyota hybrids, only size and battery type change: the petrol engine is always linked to the wheels through an epicliclic gear called PSD, power split device, where each of the carriers has the ability to rotate in its own unique way, providing a wide range of power options. The “Ring” carrier is sometimes powered by the battery-pack to provide the ability to drive using only electricity (both forward & backward), allowing the engine to stop running to save gas. At other times, the “Ring” carrier creates power, regenerating electricity when you use the brakes. The “Planet” carrier is powered by the petrol engine, which causes rotation of both the car’s wheels (for driving forward) and the “Sun” carrier (for generating electricity). And while the
“Planet” & “Sun” carriers are spinning, the “Ring” carrier can join in to provide additional thrust to the wheels or to allow engine RPM to be reduced. Lastly, the “Sun” carrier is also used for starting the engine.  It's  a sort of
 asymmetrical differential, because about 70% of the petrol engine power goes to wheels, the other 30% is directed to a small electric machine working as a motor (in both directions) but also as a generator, depending from the ECU. The other bigger electric machine is directly connected tho wheels, but it's the small one, connected to the sun gear, that set the "ratio" between the petrol engine and the wheels. In some old pics you can see a sort of chain inside this device, but it's only a chain connecting the ring gear with the final drive.
So the whole system works as a belt CVT, even if there are no belts inside. The same for the Honda I-MMD, working as a belt CVT but without belts; so both belong to the CVT transmission family, using wires and no belts, and that's why we cannot say that the Honda system is the first ECVT in the small car segment: both toy and honda are E-CVT without belts and pulleys, and Toy already sells a small ecvt hybrid car.

EDIT This is a simulator of the Toyota PSD (open it in Firefox because Chrome will close flash), Mg1 is the small motogenerator, Mg2 is the main electric motor connected directly with the wheels, ICE is the petrol engine: you can see how the vehicle speed (MG2) changes not following ICE and MG1 and, keeping ICE fixed, how the speed changes by MG1.
http://eahart.com/prius/psd/