Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: RichardA on December 08, 2019, 11:27:02 AM

Title: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: RichardA on December 08, 2019, 11:27:02 AM
(http://clubjazz.org/images/attach/jazz2020.jpg)

Press release for the Mk4 Honda Jazz due in 2020:

https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/cars/media/pressreleases/194431/all-new-jazz-leads-electrification-charge-for-honda

More information will added here when available.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on December 09, 2019, 07:35:49 PM
Waiting for tech specs..
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: langserve on December 24, 2019, 12:06:18 PM
Had to visit the dealer for a 6 month check up yesterday and picked up the brochure. I don't really see anything that makes me regret deciding to buy one of the last Mk3s of the production run. The body looks fine but it isn't really any different and if the rear looks more like a Mk1 in my opinion so good but nothing terribly exciting. The interior is good and the visibility even more impressive. And the colour schemes? Well I'll let you decide but I think its more a pitch to the young woman market than the duffer market.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on December 24, 2019, 02:16:41 PM
Waiting for tech specs..

Fuel consumption will be interesting given the new hybrid set up. My Mk3 is not great on fuel consumption although that is mostly down to short stop/start journeys in cold wet weather. I haven't seen 50 mpg as a long term average since my VW Golf TDI and that was a 2005 model.

I know one or two people who have the hybrid Yaris and that gets significantly better mpg than the Jazz in the urban environment. On the open road, much less so.

I'd be interested in a Mk4.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: langserve on December 25, 2019, 03:01:03 AM
No technical details I am afraid - anything but! Anyway, FWIW here is the page dealing with e:HEV. From what I can make out it claims to be the first HEV drive of its kind available in a small car. In the diagrams orange is mechanical energy and blue is electrical energy. The box at the top is the petrol engine and the box in the middle is the electric motors. There are three modes. Electric only, engine generates electricity and that electricity powers motors rather like a diesel electric train and finally conventional engine drives wheels. They say that the vast majority of daily driving will be in electric mode - longer and faster journeys will need mode 2 and 3 respectively. It will also be available in 4WD for people living in Hokkaido and such places which are covered in snow for 3 months of the year. Here I think it will be available in all models except basic but it will cost quite a lot extra. And that's what puts me off - I only do about 4,500 miles a year tops so I don't believe it is worth it. I haven't actually done the calculations though.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: nigelr on January 10, 2020, 12:03:27 PM
Will be very interested to see how efficient the new power train is.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on January 14, 2020, 09:31:13 AM
No technical details I am afraid - anything but! Anyway, FWIW here is the page dealing with e:HEV. From what I can make out it claims to be the first HEV drive of its kind available in a small car.
No, Toyota Yaris is already avaiable with a E-CVT hybrid system. Jazz is the first small car for Honda with a full hybrid E-CVT powertrain.
Quote
In the diagrams orange is mechanical energy and blue is electrical energy. The box at the top is the petrol engine and the box in the middle is the electric motors. There are three modes. Electric only, engine generates electricity and that electricity powers motors rather like a diesel electric train and finally conventional engine drives wheels. They say that the vast majority of daily driving will be in electric mode - longer and faster journeys will need mode 2 and 3 respectively. It will also be available in 4WD for people living in Hokkaido and such places which are covered in snow for 3 months of the year. Here I think it will be available in all models except basic but it will cost quite a lot extra. And that's what puts me off - I only do about 4,500 miles a year tops so I don't believe it is worth it. I haven't actually done the calculations though.
Jazz has always been avaiable in 4WD for japanese domestic market, such as Toyota Yaris and many other models. Most of them are not exported, in Europe we had only Subaru Justy, Suzuki Swift and Suzuki Wagon R+ offered also in 4WD. Present Jazz, called Fit in JDM, is sold with 1.3, 1.5, 1.5Hybrid I-DCD and each engine can have 4WD, both with manual or CVT gearbox (except the Hybrid sold only with the dual clutch gearbox).
Easily the Fit 4WD will have a similar  scheme to the CR-V.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on January 14, 2020, 11:27:57 AM
My understanding is that the new transmission is NOT a CVT but something completely different. I gather the driving experience will be more like that of an electric car most, if not all of which, have a single reduction gear.

In short they are claiming a significant technological advance from Toyota's system.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Downsizer on January 14, 2020, 12:45:37 PM
My understanding is that the new transmission is NOT a CVT but something completely different. I gather the driving experience will be more like that of an electric car most, if not all of which, have a single reduction gear.

In short they are claiming a significant technological advance from Toyota's system.
That's right, but it depends how you define the word "transmission".  There will be no mechanical gear ratio changes.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jocko on January 14, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
The definition of Continuously Variable Transmission is what matters here, and in most drivers minds, especially with regards to the Jazz, CVT is recognised as a belt drive, step-less, mechanical transmission.
However, in engineering their are many varieties of Continuously Variable Transmission, as can be gleaned from this Wiki entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission)
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: sparky Paul on January 14, 2020, 03:13:36 PM
There's no gearbox at all on the eCVT system, the engine switches between two modes - driving an alternator which charges the battery and/or drives the electric motor at low speeds, and a second mode via a clutch direct to the drivetrain via a single mechanical ratio for higher speed driving.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on January 14, 2020, 03:57:21 PM
That's what I understand sparky. The CVT on a hybrid Yaris is like the CVT on the current or Mk2 Jazz - the ratios change. The new Jazz has nothing in common, in terms of transmission, with the Toyota set up as seen on all their hybrid cars. Honda claim it is a completely new concept in a small car and I think they are justified in doing so.

I am looking forward to my test drive!
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: sparky Paul on January 14, 2020, 07:09:19 PM
The new Jazz has nothing in common, in terms of transmission, with the Toyota set up as seen on all their hybrid cars. Honda claim it is a completely new concept in a small car and I think they are justified in doing so.

I am looking forward to my test drive!

The system seems to work well in the CR-V, if the Jazz is using the same.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: peteo48 on January 14, 2020, 10:18:20 PM
Just a random thought and almost certainly not original but are we on the cusp of seeing manual transmissions start a long decline and, to be fair, CVT's and conventional automatics?
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jocko on January 14, 2020, 10:26:09 PM
I think that will be the case. BEVs do not require a gearbox and hybrids are moving that way too. Having driven automatics (buses and cars) for 25 years, my recent return to a manual transmission has confirmed what a PITA a manual vehicle is.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on January 15, 2020, 10:14:37 AM
That's what I understand sparky. The CVT on a hybrid Yaris is like the CVT on the current or Mk2 Jazz - the ratios change. The new Jazz has nothing in common, in terms of transmission, with the Toyota set up as seen on all their hybrid cars. Honda claim it is a completely new concept in a small car and I think they are justified in doing so.
Definetly no.
The E-CVT in hybrid yaris is the same of all other toyota hybrids, only size and battery type change: the petrol engine is always linked to the wheels through an epicliclic gear called PSD, power split device, where each of the carriers has the ability to rotate in its own unique way, providing a wide range of power options. The “Ring” carrier is sometimes powered by the battery-pack to provide the ability to drive using only electricity (both forward & backward), allowing the engine to stop running to save gas. At other times, the “Ring” carrier creates power, regenerating electricity when you use the brakes. The “Planet” carrier is powered by the petrol engine, which causes rotation of both the car’s wheels (for driving forward) and the “Sun” carrier (for generating electricity). And while the
“Planet” & “Sun” carriers are spinning, the “Ring” carrier can join in to provide additional thrust to the wheels or to allow engine RPM to be reduced. Lastly, the “Sun” carrier is also used for starting the engine.  It's  a sort of
 asymmetrical differential, because about 70% of the petrol engine power goes to wheels, the other 30% is directed to a small electric machine working as a motor (in both directions) but also as a generator, depending from the ECU. The other bigger electric machine is directly connected tho wheels, but it's the small one, connected to the sun gear, that set the "ratio" between the petrol engine and the wheels. In some old pics you can see a sort of chain inside this device, but it's only a chain connecting the ring gear with the final drive.
So the whole system works as a belt CVT, even if there are no belts inside. The same for the Honda I-MMD, working as a belt CVT but without belts; so both belong to the CVT transmission family, using wires and no belts, and that's why we cannot say that the Honda system is the first ECVT in the small car segment: both toy and honda are E-CVT without belts and pulleys, and Toy already sells a small ecvt hybrid car.

EDIT This is a simulator of the Toyota PSD (open it in Firefox because Chrome will close flash), Mg1 is the small motogenerator, Mg2 is the main electric motor connected directly with the wheels, ICE is the petrol engine: you can see how the vehicle speed (MG2) changes not following ICE and MG1 and, keeping ICE fixed, how the speed changes by MG1.
http://eahart.com/prius/psd/
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jonnybananas on March 16, 2020, 08:55:24 PM
This may be old news but the new Honda Jazz Hybrid 21YM Owner's Manual seems to be available on the Honda website.

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals.html

The Jazz in the photo on that page is still the old MK3 Jazz but looking at the 21YM Owner's Manual PDF it's definitely the new 2020 Jazz Hybrid.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: John Ratsey on March 17, 2020, 08:39:48 AM
Some points arising from a quick look through the manual:
I've primarily looked to see if features on the Mk. 3 which have annoyed me have been fixed.

There is, as expected, nowhere for a spare wheel.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Downsizer on March 17, 2020, 09:50:18 AM
It seems that someone in Honda has been reading your comments John!
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on March 17, 2020, 03:54:57 PM
Good link!
Page 547, this Jazz will have a gasoline particulate filter so the engine will use only  0W20 oil Acea C2 or C5.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: JazzandJag on April 01, 2020, 08:39:22 AM
Configurator now live on the honda.co.uk website
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jonnybananas on April 01, 2020, 12:16:42 PM
Interesting… having checked the specs for the Jazz Crosstar EX there is no mention of 'Blind Spot Information incl. Cross Traffic Monitor' - it is only mentioned in the Jazz EX specs.  However, the information from the Honda UK Media Newsroom website states 'Blind Spot Information, complete with Cross Traffic Monitor is standard on Executive grades'

Hopefully it’s a typo in the specs and not a cost cutting exercise  :(
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: John Ratsey on April 01, 2020, 07:03:53 PM
I want a vehicle that's easy to find in a car park and the only colour which meets that requirement is Surf Blue.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jocko on April 01, 2020, 09:30:41 PM
But that is only available on the Crosstar.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: John Ratsey on April 01, 2020, 09:46:26 PM
But that is only available on the Crosstar.
True. Fortunately that's the version which most interests me as it claims to have a slightly higher ride height than the normal Jazz (one of the attractions of my current HR-V).
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: dfconnolly on April 16, 2020, 03:07:40 AM
There are two videos of the jazz on YouTube being inspected and then road tested in what looks like snowy Japan......



The driving footage lacks any commentary and there is a lot of road noise due to slushy conditions.

A few things apparent.

The engine sounds coarsec when the accelerator is floored.

The suspension appears to thud harshly over potholes

There are some annoying audible warning alarm sounds

Not sure if the indicator stalk is on the right? Maybe just a Japanese or Eastern territory thing

Happy viewing

Dave C
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Downsizer on April 16, 2020, 09:33:05 AM
Thanks for these links.  I notice the car is 4WD - appropriate for that snow!
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: jazzaro on April 17, 2020, 10:07:45 AM
No upper cover for the luggage compartment, the capacity looks similar to the present generation, apart the little step near the rear seat.
Electric lock for the fuel door.
Many parts in common with the present generation, both in cabin and in engine compartment.
Still noisy wiper motor, especially with the engine not running.
I cannot evaluate the NVH, but the engine seems to be quite during normal driving.
I don'l like this steering wheel
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jocko on April 17, 2020, 10:36:02 AM
Looking at the dual image here https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/jazz-hybrid/overview.html (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/jazz-hybrid/overview.html) and there does not appear to be any appreciable difference in height between the Jazz and the Crosstar.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: John Ratsey on April 17, 2020, 12:08:55 PM
Looking at the dual image here https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/jazz-hybrid/overview.html (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/jazz-hybrid/overview.html) and there does not appear to be any appreciable difference in height between the Jazz and the Crosstar.
I think that whoever created that graphic was a bit lazy.

The detailed specs show that the Crosstar has slightly larger dimensions than the SE (I didn't check the others):
Length: 4090 vs 4044 mm (probably different plastic on front and back)
Width: 1725 vs 1694 mm (bits of plastic on the sides)
Height: 1556 vs 1526 mm
Ground clearance (driver only): 152 vs 136 mm

These numbers suggest that the suspension of the Crosstar is raised by 16mm. It's unclear if the overall height includes / excludes the roof rails. Could the rails be as low as 14mm above the normal roof? If the height doesn't include the rails then it's likely that the body (and the seats) are 30mm higher in the Crosstar than the normal Jazz.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: porew on April 17, 2020, 12:15:13 PM
Some months ago I was told in my local Honda dealership that Crosstar is 2cm higher and that it's achieved by a different setup on the suspension/spring level... the figures in techspecs say 3cm difference, so let's see in reality :)
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Pine on April 17, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Some months ago I was told in my local Honda dealership that Crosstar is 2cm higher and that it's achieved by a different setup on the suspension/spring level... the figures in techspecs say 3cm difference, so let's see in reality :)
Plus 1cm for the roof rails?
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Austriaman on August 15, 2020, 10:37:19 PM
Had to visit the dealer for a 6 month check up yesterday and picked up the brochure. I don't really see anything that makes me regret deciding to buy one of the last Mk3s of the production run. The body looks fine but it isn't really any different and if the rear looks more like a Mk1 in my opinion so good but nothing terribly exciting. The interior is good and the visibility even more impressive. And the colour schemes? Well I'll let you decide but I think its more a pitch to the young woman market than the duffer market.
The big pull is the way the new Jazz drives. It's powerful, so smooth and seamless. It was the drive that sold me.
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: John Ratsey on August 16, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Plus 1cm for the roof rails?
Seeing this reminded me to get out my tape measure and a spirit level. I measured the highest part of the roof rails on one side to be 1560mm and the other side 1590mm (my old tarmac parking place isn't flat) which gives an average to the top of the rails as 1575mm. The highest part of the roof is in the middle and is about 25mm below the top of the roof rails, ie 1550mm (the rails are about 48mm higher than the sides of the roof). Honda give the Crosstar height as 1556mm so that's evidently the vehicle height excluding the rails.

The big pull is the way the new Jazz drives. It's powerful, so smooth and seamless. It was the drive that sold me.
It's the effortless power under my normal driving conditions that I like. Earlier Jazzes have the power provided the engine is revved but the Mk. 4 will shift off the line with a gentle touch of the accelerator and is also very responsive to slight changes in the accelerator position.

While the brake hold feature is very useful, it leaves me wondering where to put my right foot while waiting to move because, if I touch the accelerator then the vehicle will move.

Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Kenneve on September 06, 2020, 09:45:26 PM
Hi Guys
One question that my dealer does not seem to be able to answer is: How does the transmission react when descending a very steep hill, one where in a manual gearbox car, you would maybe change down to 3rd or even 2nd gear to provide engine braking.

You may Say,  in the ‘B’ drive position the car would attempt to charge the battery, but what if the battery is already fully charged?  I can’t imagine the the braking resistance generated by charging the battery is anything like what would be generated by the engine in a low gear.

As I understand it, the engine directly drives the generator without any gear reduction.

I don’t think think I would like to descend Porlock hill or some of the Devon banks, relying entirely of the brakes, or am I just old fashioned?
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Jocko on September 06, 2020, 10:05:35 PM
Someone in another thread said that the motor/generator tries to turn the engine and this provides the engine braking.

I have driven The Pass of the Cattle on several occasions, in an automatic, and never felt the need to come out of Drive.
Modern brakes will cope with any steep descent in the UK without overheating or fading.

(https://www.visitwester-ross.com/userfiles/image/big_5/_med/bealach.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d8/1f/88/d81f889b300063cf71711b7b0365cf0a.jpg)
Title: Re: Honda Jazz Mk4 2020
Post by: Kenneve on September 06, 2020, 10:44:53 PM
Hi Jocko

From the photos shown, that is certainly the sort of hill I’m talking about.
In my Mk3 I would certainly flick the paddle to change down to a lower gear, aa it would reduce the breaking effort required and of course the unnecessary  wear.
As I understand it , there aren’t any paddles on the Mk4, so you must rely entirely on your brakes, which as an old school driver I would not be happy with.
Many years ago, I did experience total brake failure, not something I would like to repeat!