Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Other Hondas & General Topics => Honda & Other Honda Models => Topic started by: RichardA on January 10, 2019, 08:28:37 PM

Title: 2018 New car sales
Post by: RichardA on January 10, 2019, 08:28:37 PM
Honda sold 52,570 cars in 2018, down by 2.47% with a market share of 2.12%

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: Jocko on January 10, 2019, 08:45:27 PM
I see Honda have announced a planned 6 day halt in production, post Brexit, to facilitate production recovery, following any delays in parts sourcing.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: MartinJG on January 10, 2019, 11:40:02 PM
I see Honda have announced a planned 6 day halt in production, post Brexit, to facilitate production recovery, following any delays in parts sourcing.

Yes. It does seem to coincide with the high fiving buddies, Abe and May. Curiouser and curiouser.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: 123Drive! on January 11, 2019, 07:52:04 AM
I always compare Honda with Toyota. There's no Hybrid Jazz and and with 0% and loads of discount, the Yaris is selling like hotcakes. Then there is the range. Honda don't have an Aygo nor a 7 seater until recently. Also how many Pirus has been sold as minicabs? To be fair, with 52k sold, it's not bad for Honda.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: John Ratsey on January 11, 2019, 08:32:26 AM
The good news shown by those statistics is that Honda's market share increased from 2.12% in 2017 to 2.22% in 2018. Perhaps the new Civic helped.

I often wonder if Honda not selling anything smaller than the Jazz in Europe is partly to have a quick fix available for complying with EU post 2020 emissions targets https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en (https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en) which talk about overall fleet reductions. However, the small vehicle market also has the lowest margins. More likely we will see some hybrids versions showing up. Honda has these elsewhere in the world and the hybrid CR-V is available to order https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v-hybrid/overview.html (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v-hybrid/overview.html). Sales of the hybrid Jazz weren't good partly due to the pricing but also the mpg improvement was modest.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: peteo48 on January 11, 2019, 10:15:02 AM
I stand to be corrected here but am I right in thinking that Honda's hybrid cars were incapable of electric only running? We use a local taxi firm if we are going out and alcohol will be involved and they use the Prius. For the first half mile or so as we leave the estate it's in EV mode only.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: culzean on January 11, 2019, 10:40:10 AM
I see Honda have announced a planned 6 day halt in production, post Brexit, to facilitate production recovery, following any delays in parts sourcing.

For anyone old enough to remember the millenium bug (non) event these Brexit scares are just a re-run, many governments spent millions on experts and consultants ( who had prepared the pitch well with tales of planes falling out of the sky, food shortages and wages not being paid, trade grinding to a halt etc. etc. ) - while other governments spent nothing,  and guess what it was the biggest non-event of the millenium, but the preachers of doom had made 'loadsa money' from gullible government people spending taxpayers money....

The sun will rise as usual on March 30th, the ferries will still run, planes will still fly and the people who refused to be bullied by the EU will just smile,  while the doomsayers will carry on trying to convince us that the sky really did fall in but we were just to thick / un-educated ( aka as not brainwashed by the establishment ) / IQ challenged to notice what a catastrophe Brexit was...
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: culzean on January 11, 2019, 10:46:12 AM
I stand to be corrected here but am I right in thinking that Honda's hybrid cars were incapable of electric only running? We use a local taxi firm if we are going out and alcohol will be involved and they use the Prius. For the first half mile or so as we leave the estate it's in EV mode only.

I think you are correct,  the battery is too small to do anything but assist the engine,  and Honda algorithm never let the battery get less than half empty. A meaningful battery would be like the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which gives '20 miles' ( but weighs 500kg or half a ton in old money or half the weight of a complete Jazz car and is a dead weight for the rest of your journey but neatly gets around the ULEZ legislation even though many company car drivers never charge the battery anyway,  but their number plate and the dodgy paper spec of the car means they don't pay even when only running on engine power ).
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: MartinJG on January 11, 2019, 11:04:41 AM

It will be interesting to see how the new electric 'Golf MK1 lookalike' Honda (can't remember the name) will be received. It looks fantastic but it is my hunch that after the initial EV razzmatazz of the media/PC worthy launch we will see the addition of a mutton dressed as lamb fossil fuel version. Honda have always paid great lip service to green related developments but I just do not see battery technology etc advancing quickly enough to fill the gap and lips alone do not pay the bills. Except in the fuzzy arcane world of politics, of course.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: 123Drive! on January 11, 2019, 12:04:33 PM
https://twitter.com/PeterNunn3/status/1083296458898657280?s=19

I read the above and then saw this article! Honda sold 218k units of this Nbox in 2018! Unbelievable when in UK they sold 52k cars combined, lol!
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: culzean on January 11, 2019, 12:21:47 PM
https://twitter.com/PeterNunn3/status/1083296458898657280?s=19

I read the above and then saw this article! Honda sold 218k units of this Nbox in 2018! Unbelievable when in UK they sold 52k cars combined, lol!

It is easy to forget in UK how big Honda is in the rest of the world, and how well regarded their vehicles are..

The boxy vehicles are popular in Japan and Asia where road ( and parking ) space is at a premium and people want small footprint with good interior room.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: Rory on January 11, 2019, 01:41:00 PM
https://twitter.com/PeterNunn3/status/1083296458898657280?s=19

I read the above and then saw this article! Honda sold 218k units of this Nbox in 2018! Unbelievable when in UK they sold 52k cars combined, lol!

It is easy to forget in UK how big Honda is in the rest of the world, and how well regarded their vehicles are..

The boxy vehicles are popular in Japan and Asia where road ( and parking ) space is at a premium and people want small footprint with good interior room.

I've no idea what they're trying to do in the UK - the range of vehicles offered is ridiculously limited and the pricing vs specification is bonkers.

Look at them in the US - they do everything, including a people carrier and a full size SUV.  Honda's are seen as cheap cars there - in the UK they try and pitch themselves as a bit 'premium'.   You can get away with that if the dealers are good but the newer ones seem as crap as every other dealer.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: MartinJG on January 11, 2019, 02:14:27 PM

Can't really see the 'box thingy' catching on in UK suburbia. Doesn't look all that impressive on the drive.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: culzean on January 11, 2019, 02:26:07 PM

I've no idea what they're trying to do in the UK - the range of vehicles offered is ridiculously limited and the pricing vs specification is bonkers.

Look at them in the US - they do everything, including a people carrier and a full size SUV.  Honda's are seen as cheap cars there - in the UK they try and pitch themselves as a bit 'premium'.   You can get away with that if the dealers are good but the newer ones seem as crap as every other dealer.

Older posters will remember how bad ( dire )  UK and European cars were before companies like Honda came along, they were unreliable, badly built, heater and radio were optional extras they rusted away in a few years, and had steering, gearboxes and clutches worthy of a heavy truck. The japanese were many orders of magnitude better, they had all the extras as standard, lovely light steering and clutches, sweet gearboxes, were as reliable as a Swiss watch ( and still are ) and had sweet, free revving, long lasting and economical engines. Younger drivers are spoilt for choice of good reliable well equiped cars nowadays, but it is all down to the Japanese..

UK is a small market for Honda, and saloons and larger vehicles do not sell well here, and some people consider Honda to be pricey, but then again if you consider lifetime cost they work or pretty cheap, and some people still think Ford and Vauxhall are UK companies LOL. If anything Honda need a smaller model in UK to compete with VW UP, Yaris, Aygo etc. Although no profit in small cars as they cost pretty much the same to build as larger ones.

I would substitute ' good value for money' for 'cheap' as Honda were chalk and cheese with pathetic, unreliable , gas guzzling vehicles on offer in USA when Honda got there. Acura are Honda premium brand is USA ( most Japanese makers looked for 'non Japanese names for their upmarket vehicles ), but cheaper Honda badged models compare very well with their upmarket offerings.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/honda-vs-acura

Site is a bit strange, use little arrows under top photo to scroll between pages.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: Jocko on January 11, 2019, 04:40:31 PM

Can't really see the 'box thingy' catching on in UK suburbia. Doesn't look all that impressive on the drive.
The reason they are so popular in Japan is the legislation and tax regime makes them so. They are known as Kei Cars.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: richardfrost on January 11, 2019, 05:20:58 PM
I stand to be corrected here but am I right in thinking that Honda's hybrid cars were incapable of electric only running? We use a local taxi firm if we are going out and alcohol will be involved and they use the Prius. For the first half mile or so as we leave the estate it's in EV mode only.

My main car is a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid. It has the exact same setup as a Prius with two differences, it has a 2.5l petrol engine and an additional electric motor driving the rear wheels, giving it occasional 4 wheel drive. It does have an EV mode but this only works when there is enough charge in the battery and the power drain (combination of accelerator setting and incline) is low enough. So I can be in EV mode at 50mph on a downhill (technically not electrically driven so much as power regeneration) or whilst tootling around in Tesco car parks sneaking up on unsuspecting pensioners in silent mode. For all intents and purposes, Toyota's hybrid system is about making the petrol engine run as efficiently as possible. It is not about electric only propulsion. I suspect that Honda's system is very similar.

Having said all of that, I believe there is a new generation in the latest Prius and Lexus vehicles which is more like the Mitsubishi system and able to go up to 20 miles in EV mode.

It does surprise me, given Honda have been into Hybrid technology for a couple of decades now, that they do not have more capable systems and more vehicles around using these systems. Jaguar LandRover are paying the price for their lax approach to engine technology, focussing on diesel as a single approach for way too long. They are beyond the point where they can revert to petrol now, and yet electric is years from being fully capable. So they are in the brown stuff. Honda would seem to be OK in that they still have some great petrol offerings and I would think they should be pushing hard on hybrid now to clean up in the market left by the diesel dependant manufacturers.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: John Ratsey on January 11, 2019, 06:04:08 PM
I stand to be corrected here but am I right in thinking that Honda's hybrid cars were incapable of electric only running? We use a local taxi firm if we are going out and alcohol will be involved and they use the Prius. For the first half mile or so as we leave the estate it's in EV mode only.
Honda's IMA system (with a motor-genertor instead of the flywheel on the end of the engine) was a significant step in the hybrid direction when it was introduced at the end of the last century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Motor_Assist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Motor_Assist) but was outdated by the time it arrived here in the Jazz in 2011. Perhaps the main drawback was not having a lithium battery so there was more weight and less capacity (in my experience the Jazz could run on battery for about 1/4 mile on a favourable slope but don't expect more from a 13HP motor). The system provided some improvement in economy under stop-start conditions. Honda might have sold more had it stressed the smoothness of the driving experience as the motor provided some extra low-end power.

It does surprise me, given Honda have been into Hybrid technology for a couple of decades now, that they do not have more capable systems and more vehicles around using these systems.
Honda have hybrid systems running in their vehicles elsewhere in the world. Go to Colombo in Sri Lanka and you will see loads of Mk 3 Jazzes and HR-Vs with "hybrid" labels. They've been cautious about offering another hybrid in the UK (and Europe?) after the weak sales of the Mk 2 hybrid Jazz but you can now order a CR-V with Honda's iMMD system (see my previous post). I'm optimistic that we will see hybrid versions of the other Honda models show up here within the next 2-3 years. Perhaps first will be the Civic given that it shares a platform with the CR-V. There are also a few Honda Clarity vehicles https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/clarity-fuel-cell/overview.html (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/clarity-fuel-cell/overview.html) being tested here. However, how soon this technology gets scaled down remains to be seen but, in the long term, it could be a viable alternative to battery-only vehicles.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: Jocko on January 11, 2019, 06:18:11 PM
Jaguar LandRover are paying the price for their lax approach to engine technology, focussing on diesel as a single approach for way too long. They are beyond the point where they can revert to petrol now, and yet electric is years from being fully capable. So they are in the brown stuff.
I think they will survive, purely because it is Jaguar and Land Rover. Both have such a following. But things are not going to be easy for JLR.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: MartinJG on January 11, 2019, 07:19:02 PM
Jaguar LandRover are paying the price for their lax approach to engine technology, focussing on diesel as a single approach for way too long. They are beyond the point where they can revert to petrol now, and yet electric is years from being fully capable. So they are in the brown stuff.
I think they will survive, purely because it is Jaguar and Land Rover. Both have such a following. But things are not going to be easy for JLR.

I would not rule out diesel just yet. Electric is surely the future but depending on the way Brexit pans out and economics prevail (treading on eggshells here) we may yet see politics play its twisted hand on the grounds of expedience.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: richardfrost on January 11, 2019, 11:30:43 PM
Jaguar LandRover are paying the price for their lax approach to engine technology, focussing on diesel as a single approach for way too long. They are beyond the point where they can revert to petrol now, and yet electric is years from being fully capable. So they are in the brown stuff.
I think they will survive, purely because it is Jaguar and Land Rover. Both have such a following. But things are not going to be easy for JLR.

I would not rule out diesel just yet. Electric is surely the future but depending on the way Brexit pans out and economics prevail (treading on eggshells here) we may yet see politics play its twisted hand on the grounds of expedience.
I wonít be going back to Diesel thatís for sure. But I posted a while back about the pace of change in propulsion technology, and to a certain degree automation, and how I donít believe I will buy another car outright again. Short term leasing for me I think. Until things settle down.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: 123Drive! on January 12, 2019, 12:09:31 AM
Going off track but JLR never sit down and blame themselves for poor sales-look how badly they preformed over the years on reliability and customer service. When people have money and change their cars every 3 yrs, you get away with it. But when money is tight, consumers are going to go for something more reliable and reassuring. Plus the fact they never once thought about developing more environmentally friendly engines until the last few years doesn't help.

Hence Honda needs to review their sales and marketing too. Yes, they have reliable cars and good customer service, but why aren't they selling more like Toyota? Lack of financial deals and variety on the range springs to mind.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: MartinJG on January 12, 2019, 11:21:30 AM
Going off track but JLR never sit down and blame themselves for poor sales-look how badly they preformed over the years on reliability and customer service. When people have money and change their cars every 3 yrs, you get away with it. But when money is tight, consumers are going to go for something more reliable and reassuring. Plus the fact they never once thought about developing more environmentally friendly engines until the last few years doesn't help.

Hence Honda needs to review their sales and marketing too. Yes, they have reliable cars and good customer service, but why aren't they selling more like Toyota? Lack of financial deals and variety on the range springs to mind.

I think that is largely true of all the UK based dealerships over the years which is why home grown producers either died or were taken over. Smoke and fire routine. Fact is, the industry sees the UK as a relatively easy market to plunder in more ways than one. Oddly enough, Skoda dealers in the early days when they were first taken over by VW were generally good becasue most of them were home grown family owned outfits but bit by bit, corporate culture took over and it seems the attitudes and standard of service has declined. Let's face it, the UK is increasingly a glorified retail park on credit for the benefit of big business. Nothing like a captive audience to swell the coffers.
Title: Re: 2018 New car sales
Post by: madasafish on January 13, 2019, 08:33:13 PM
Honda in UK are running a profit maximisation strategy. That was what the UK MD stated some 2 years ago : and that is what they are doing..  Volume is not an issue..