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Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - => Topic started by: Roddy0000 on September 10, 2018, 10:20:36 PM

Title: Reserve tank
Post by: Roddy0000 on September 10, 2018, 10:20:36 PM
Hi, today mileage said 0 miles left when running on empty, does anyone know how many miles or fuel that are left after that point  before I run out of fuel. Think the fill up was about 47 litres. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ColinB on September 11, 2018, 07:47:10 AM
Firstly, donít rely on the accuracy of the range prediction, itís only an estimate. Iíve been surprised to see how much it varies during a journey for no apparent reason. Sudden changes up and down by tens of miles are not unusual, so when it reads zero all that means is that youíre somewhere near the bottom of the tank. Zero readings on different occasions are quite likely to give you different amounts of fuel remaining, which means there is no standard answer to your question.

Secondly, why run the tank right down ? It only creates unnecessary anxiety.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Roddy0000 on September 11, 2018, 08:39:32 AM
Firstly, donít rely on the accuracy of the range prediction, itís only an estimate. Iíve been surprised to see how much it varies during a journey for no apparent reason. Sudden changes up and down by tens of miles are not unusual, so when it reads zero all that means is that youíre somewhere near the bottom of the tank. Zero readings on different occasions are quite likely to give you different amounts of fuel remaining, which means there is no standard answer to your question.

Secondly, why run the tank right down ? It only creates unnecessary anxiety.
I donít normally run the tank down but was surprised on this occasion how quickly it showed empty.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2018, 08:53:26 AM
Think the fill up was about 47 litres.
You did well. According to your manual the tank is only supposed to hold 40 litres!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 11, 2018, 11:10:49 AM
Thinking that myself!

Typo? 37 litres?
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on September 11, 2018, 11:25:37 AM
Hi, today mileage said 0 miles left when running on empty, does anyone know how many miles or fuel that are left after that point  before I run out of fuel. Think the fill up was about 47 litres. Many thanks.

Normally it will register zero miles left when you get to reserve ( about 6 or 7 litres)  Before that point the miles to go figure will vary quite a lot depending on the current rate you are using fuel ( injector open times as seen by ECU ) so if you are hurtling down a steep hill you may see figure increase, if you are climbing that same hill the figure will decrease.  I never let my tank get much less than half empty, there is simply nothing to be gained by doing so unless you want to increase the level of cor"tisol in your body....   when you get to zero on miles to go you may have 40 to 70 miles left, Honda are very conservative ( generous) on their reserve, unlike a mini or a fiat which may give as little as 15 miles warning of complete fuel deficit. 
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Ozzie on September 11, 2018, 11:31:38 AM
I've done 30 miles on 0 range before and put in 35 litres to refill.

At the end of my working day, I have a 70 mile drive home, mainly motorway, if the range is under 100 miles, I will refill before I start the trek home. However if it shows 110 miles, it will frequently drop to 0 before I get home, mainly due to the motorway/dual carriageway combination of fast roads and roundabouts, so more slowing and accelerating than had it been one long road without roundabouts.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ColinB on September 11, 2018, 11:53:20 AM
... the miles to go figure will vary quite a lot depending on the current rate you are using fuel ( injector open times as seen by ECU ) so if you are hurtling down a steep hill you may see figure increase, if you are climbing that same hill the figure will decrease. 
Not what it says in the manual. Page 124 "Range ... Shows the estimated distance you can travel on the remaining fuel. This distance is estimated from the fuel economy of your previous trips". The effects of opening/closing of injectors caused by road conditions, driver input etc. should be smoothed out by using average consumption data, so the range displayed shouldn't vary in the way it does. There's probably a reason for the inconsistent display but that doesn't sound like it.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2018, 11:59:51 AM
I only have the fuel gauge and the low fuel light on my Mk 1. I am seldom out after dark so tend to refuel when my warning light comes on. I am never far from a filling station. If I am going a considerable journey, or a trip where I may get stuck in traffic, I will fill up once I get below a quarter tank. The only reason I run so low is it improves the accuracy of my fuel calculations.
My ScanGauge gives a miles to empty figure, but I never use it, don't trust it and seldom even look at it. That is what I feel an on-board display would do for me as well.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 11, 2018, 12:34:26 PM
It's funny how people have different policies about refuelling. I tend more to the Culzean approach. In a modern car I start getting twitchy when the miles to refuelling goes down to 100. I have to say I've never run out of fuel.

I might have mentioned a pal of mine in another post but he tends to run on virtually empty all the time. He puts a tenner's worth  in when the light goes on. If he's going a bit further he might go mad and put £20 in.


A Nissan Leaf would suit him - he never has more than about 80 miles range! He swears he has never run out of petrol though so he's spent his entire driving career living on the edge!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Roddy0000 on September 11, 2018, 03:09:07 PM
Think the fill up was about 47 litres.
You did well. According to your manual the tank is only supposed to hold 40 litres!
Sorry that should have read 37.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: JohnAlways on September 11, 2018, 04:29:50 PM
I ran out of petrol once, in my Morris Minor about 1973. Wife and I walked about six miles to get a gallon of petrol (and buy a can to put it in). Never again! :)
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 11, 2018, 05:08:49 PM
Was your wife still speaking to you after this escapade John? :D
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John Ratsey on September 11, 2018, 09:22:18 PM
Sorry that should have read 37.
Which means that you had 3 litres (about 2/3rd of a gallon) remaining in the tank. At 45 mpg this gives 30 miles but if you have some difficult urban driving it may only be 20 miles. It's useful to know what buffer you have with the system showing zero miles remaining but it's not something to explore regularly.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: JohnAlways on September 12, 2018, 09:07:22 AM
Peteo48, well she remembers the Phrase "round the next corner"! I tried to encourage her by saying "it's round the next corner" (but the garage was shut on Sundays"! So I said "well there's another one not far away, around the next corner"!  I seem to remember we got engaged the next weekend, she was still complaining about the blisters she got (she wasn't wearing suitable walking footwear) and when I say it's not far away I often get the reply "What around the next corner"! :)
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 12, 2018, 09:32:20 AM
we got engaged the next weekend
Your lucky. I was taking my girlfriend and her parents (who I hoped would become future in-laws), for a Sunday afternoon run. I had filled up with petrol, but on a quiet country lane I broke down. Turned out I had run out of petrol! Her father and I walked to the nearest town for petrol, while the ladies stayed with the car. We got home okay, but the next day I found I had a serious leak from my fuel pump, and the tank was now empty once again.
The upshot of it all was, a few weeks later I got dumped. She was the love of my life too.
Many years later we got back in contact and she told me it was her mother who talked her off me! Bl**dy Ford.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: richardfrost on September 12, 2018, 02:33:11 PM
Many years later we got back in contact and she told me it was her mother who talked her off me! Bl**dy Ford.

I wonder if you had a lucky escape. Imagine that person as your mother in law!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: mikebore on September 15, 2018, 07:21:09 AM
Have a look at this thread:

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8270.msg41133#msg41133 (https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8270.msg41133#msg41133)

Summary:

Warning light came on with 25 miles remaining. I drove on until zero bars.
At zero bars miles remaining was zero, and I filled up. The tank took 37.29 litres, so litres remaining was 2.7 litres, or about 30 miles.
So total miles from warning light to empty would be about 25+30=55 miles

I expect some repeat tests would give some different results depending on circumstances...but I don't intend to do it again  :D
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 15, 2018, 10:10:06 AM
Just on this topic - and possibly raising an old chestnut - does anybody know if the idea that, if you let your tank run down to nearly empty, a load of crud will be sucked into your injectors, is true or false?
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 15, 2018, 11:31:56 AM
This was once a problem, but now, in the UK, the petrol we buy is clean and free from "crud", as you call it. Fuel tanks are either plastic or, if steel, coated internally. The days of rust forming inside old fuel tanks has long gone.
Any water that is in the fuel (very little in these days of sealed fuel systems), collects in the lowest part of the tank. The fuel pick up position is designed to avoid picking up water.
The Jazz (Mk 1 at any rate), has a fuel filter designed to trap any foreign bodies, and only needs changing every 72,000 miles or 6 years. However, recommendations I have read says that if the fuel pressure is within it's limits then there is no need to change the filter. As it is inside the fuel tank this is no bad thing. The filter requires a good deal of work to replace. Unless I experience fuel issues I will not be looking near my fuel filter.

(https://www.parts-honda.uk/thumbs/honda_cars/auto/17SAA601/IMGE/930_930/FUEL-TANK-Honda-Cars-JAZZ-2006-12-S-5-speed-manual-B__0300.jpg)
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ColinB on September 15, 2018, 03:16:32 PM
Just on this topic - and possibly raising an old chestnut - does anybody know if the idea that, if you let your tank run down to nearly empty, a load of crud will be sucked into your injectors, is true or false?
False. If you think about it, the fuel pump suction inlet must be at the lowest point of the tank: if it wasnít you wouldnít be able to use the fuel at the bottom of the tank anyway. So if you have any solid contamination or water in there, thatíll actually be the first stuff to go through the pump and into the injectors, not the last.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 16, 2018, 10:45:22 PM

Over 90 miles from fuel light coming on and 50 from when needle hit zero in this old Honda Accord.

And I start worrying ages before the light comes on!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 17, 2018, 09:12:30 AM
I'm rather intrigued by mine at the moment. Due to a road closure I'm having to divert my commute and instead of 12 miles of A road at 50mph it's now almost entirely dual carriageway and motorway at 60mph with some delays at the A43/M40 junction where the idle stop comes into its own.

Although this has increased the distance by nearly 50% to 20 miles it has improved the reported fuel consumption. It had been showing around 54mpg over the summer but is now showing 58mpg. What's intriguing me is that after a week the fuel gauge is currently showing just under three quarters (for 200 miles) and the remaining distance is showing as 280 miles.

That implies that the car thinks I can drive nearly 500 miles on one tank. Given that it's ultimately the same journey (Brackley to Banbury) the overall rise/fall should be the same so this seems to imply that 60mph is a far more efficient cruising speed (almost 10%) than 50mph which surprises me.

The delays at the A43/M40 (up to fifteen minutes) are additional delays with no equivalent on my normal route so I think that is helping to show the value of idle stop.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 17, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
I find that my most fuel efficient speed is 60 mph on the speedo (about 53-54 mph on GPs).
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 17, 2018, 12:41:40 PM
Purely speculation here but I'm thinking back to the old official methods of measuring mpg. If I recall correctly, there was a 56 mph figure and I seem to recall this was touted as the most efficient cruising speed for most cars.

I remember a work colleague with whom I shared cars with commuting to work back in the late 1970s. He used to drive along the M3 at a constant 56 and got some pretty remarkable figures out of his old Morris Marina.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 17, 2018, 02:05:21 PM
The figures used to quote mpg at 56 mph and I was always of the impression that any UK car would probably be optimised for that speed. Rightly or wrongly it made sense to me.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Kenneve on September 17, 2018, 02:18:32 PM
I find that my most fuel efficient speed is 60 mph on the speedo (about 53-54 mph on GPs).

I'm surprised that Jocko finds the speedometer error so high.
If I cruise at 60 mph my satnav reads 58 mph and at 30 mph it reads 29 mph.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: VicW on September 17, 2018, 03:22:41 PM
I'm surprised that Jocko finds the speedometer error so high.
If I cruise at 60 mph my satnav reads 58 mph and at 30 mph it reads 29 mph.

I find the same, My speedo reads 2mph high across the board. I think in theory a speedo is not allowed to be more more than 10% inaccurate according to the Construction and Use Regulations hence most Police Forces applying a 10% + 2mph rule to speeding. No I don't know where the 2mph comes from.

Vic.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 17, 2018, 04:30:55 PM
The error on mine is 3 mph at 70. It's the only time I tend to look at the GPS speed and it consistently shows 70 mph on the speedo as 67.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 17, 2018, 04:38:55 PM
I find that my most fuel efficient speed is 60 mph on the speedo (about 53-54 mph on GPs).

I'm surprised that Jocko finds the speedometer error so high.
If I cruise at 60 mph my satnav reads 58 mph and at 30 mph it reads 29 mph.
It will vary (to some degree) based on your tyres. As they wear the speedometer should become less (or more?) accurate. My experience isn't so bad as Jocko's though. 60mph is currently about 57mph and 50mph is currently 47mph according to GPS.

I also remember the 56mph figure for fuel consumption which I always assumed came from 90kmh. Thinking about it the revs seem to be the same on my car for 60 as for 50 (1,800) so presumably the CVT must be choosing a slightly higher ratio.

Still, although 10% better mpg is nice, driving 70% further means the diversion is costing me more. Currently everyone is waiting to see if/when the road is reopened (https://www3.northamptonshire.gov.uk/news/council-news/Pages/bridge-near-farthinghoe-on-a422-closed-with-immediate-effect.aspx). I recently discovered that it's the county council paying for it and since Northants council is effectively bankrupt it doesn't sound too good :(
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 17, 2018, 05:55:46 PM
I regularly take the long way round to get better mpg at the cost of going further and using more petrol! As I have said elsewhere, returning good mpg (the game), is more important than saving money on petrol.

Just an aside, how do I insert a hyperlink, but with text?
Quote
if/when the road is reopened.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 17, 2018, 06:16:58 PM
I regularly take the long way round to get better mpg at the cost of going further and using more petrol! As I have said elsewhere, returning good mpg (the game), is more important than saving money on petrol.

Just an aside, how do I insert a hyperlink, but with text?
Quote
if/when the road is reopened.
Technical way:
* Type (url=???)<Insert your text here>(/url)

But:
* Replace '()'s with '[]'s
* Replace question marks with the URL (contents of browser address bar).
* Your text replaces the <> bit.

So an example using round brackets to avoid it being picked up by the forum software as a URL would be:(url=http://somedomain.com/document)This is the url text(/url).

The less technical way is to type the text, highlight it then click the button with an image of the planet Earth and a document. Then append =??? after the first 'url'.

But I is a programmer so I do not do stuff the untechnical way  :P
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 17, 2018, 06:46:11 PM
Thanks. I'll copy that and keep it to hand.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John Ratsey on September 17, 2018, 09:00:44 PM
Still, although 10% better mpg is nice, driving 70% further means the diversion is costing me more.
I would assume that it takes several miles (more if the weather turns cold) for the powertrain to warm up and run and optimum efficiency. So potentially little over half of your 12 mile journey is with the powertrain running most efficiently while the proportion of the longer route may be more than 3/4. Set the big screen to show the trip mpg and you will see how low it starts and then gradually improves. I would like thermostatic louvres on the engine comparment to assist the warm-up process but this is unlikely to happen until low temperature starts become part of the standard mpg testing.

You can expect to see even better mpg if you can potter along the slow lane at 55 mpg (my HR-V can give 60 mpg under this situation) or ever slower. Don't forget that last year's Jazz Land's End to John O'Groats trip on one tank was done at 40 mph.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 17, 2018, 10:29:50 PM
You can expect to see even better mpg if you can potter along the slow lane at 55 mpg (my HR-V can give 60 mpg under this situation) or ever slower. Don't forget that last year's Jazz Land's End to John O'Groats trip on one tank was done at 40 mph.
That's how I drive motorways anyway for the most part. I tend to set the cruise control to 60mph and will tolerate down to 55 when following HGVs especially if it's busy. Anyway I don't believe that even driving at 80mph would significantly reduce a journey time of 20 minutes. Any gains would likely be lost in the congestion at M40 J10 anyway.

But your point about engine warm up could definitely be a factor. The reported mpg usually drops a couple of mpg fairly quickly and doesn't start recovering until half way along the old route. So yeah, the drive train is possibly spending twice as long in a fully warmed up state. It'd be interesting to see a live trace of both routes though. I'm an efficient driver who hardly ever uses his brakes despite bends and some hills on the A road so seeing the losses/gains of both routes would be interesting.

I think there might be greater elevation changes on the A road (the M40 seems to follow a valley) but of course overall the elevation changes are the same and the A-road isn't particularly hilly. No where around here is.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 18, 2018, 07:05:01 AM
Did an accurate check of my speedo, against the GPS, this morning. At 30 mph the GPS reads 28 mph and at 20 the GPS flicks between 17 and 18 mph. I won't be out of the town until Saturday, so I will check the higher speeds then.
The way I have my steering wheel set it obliterated 60, 70 and 80 mph, but I will hunker down a bit and get an accurate reading.
My ScanGauge E sits on top of the binnacle and if I position the wheel to allow sight of the indicator telltales then it obscures the top of the speedo. For my driving the telltales are more important than the 60, 70, 80 markings.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ColinB on September 18, 2018, 08:47:41 AM
Did an accurate check of my speedo, against the GPS, this morning.
Just to be a bit pedantic here, you're not doing an accurate check of your speedo, what you're doing is comparing one system of measurement against another, each of which has it's own sources of error. Reasons for speedo inaccuracy are well documented (chiefly the legislation requiring it to over-read, but also factors affecting wheel diameter such as tyre wear), but car satnavs are not exactly precision instruments either. Accuracy can be affected by the number of satellites the unit can "see", the quality of the signals, whether those signals are being obscured by or reflected off nearby objects, road gradients, and consistency of speed (it calculates speed by measuring time between position fixes so there's a lag when accelerating or decelerating).The satnav is undoubtedly more accurate than the car speedo when driving straight & level at constant speed in open country, but it would be wrong to consider that it's always absolutely correct.

Whilst on the subject of accuracy, I'm always intrigued by statements that the car's onboard computer doesn't give accurate MPGs and then talking about devices like Scanguage. That sort of device uses the same data as the car's computer and does the same calculation, so why should it be more accurate ?
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 18, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
When I say accurate, it is as accurate as I need it. It is not as if I record both instantaneous readings and then compare them. I look first at one, then at the the other so it's as accurate as that. I also travel at a constant speed in an open location so minimise errors from buildings etc.
The ScanGauge is more accurate, as every top up you add a correction to the error which you don't do with the on-board. But to be pedantic, it is only more accurate, not completely accurate. Of course, neither is a computed figure, gleaned from one tank of fuel. The figure beside my avatar is a computed figure from (currently) 56 fill ups, so that is pretty accurate.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 18, 2018, 10:34:45 AM
You can expect to see even better mpg if you can potter along the slow lane at 55 mpg (my HR-V can give 60 mpg under this situation) or ever slower. Don't forget that last year's Jazz Land's End to John O'Groats trip on one tank was done at 40 mph.
That's how I drive motorways anyway for the most part. I tend to set the cruise control to 60mph and will tolerate down to 55 when following HGVs especially if it's busy. Anyway I don't believe that even driving at 80mph would significantly reduce a journey time of 20 minutes. Any gains would likely be lost in the congestion at M40 J10 anyway.

As I've got older, I have moved more to this style of driving largely because it is much less stressful. I'll use cruise if I can but the motorways where I live are usually incredibly busy. My overall approach is to drive around 60 mph until or unless I find a slow moving bunch and then I will usually accelerate up to 70 mph to get past quickly.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 18, 2018, 01:08:12 PM
My overall approach is to drive around 60 mph until or unless I find a slow moving bunch and then I will usually accelerate up to 70 mph to get past quickly.
I tend to do similar. Until I come upon the slow moving bunch, when I slow down and join them. The thing is, my longest drive is about 40 miles, of which 23 miles is motorway/dual carriageway, and I have all the time in the world. Different drivers have different priorities.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 18, 2018, 01:37:18 PM
On the slow moving bunch, it all depends on where I am as regards the next turn off. I find the "accelerate like mad only to have to cut into the nearside lane before you turn off" brigade pretty ridiculous. They used to annoy me but I now try to maintain a zen like calm :)
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 18, 2018, 03:24:32 PM
On the slow moving bunch, it all depends on where I am as regards the next turn off. I find the "accelerate like mad only to have to cut into the nearside lane before you turn off" brigade pretty ridiculous. They used to annoy me but I now try to maintain a zen like calm :)
Although I also find the opposites quite amusing. People who drop in behind me a couple of miles from the junction (braking in order to do so) despite there often being plenty of space in front of me. A lot of them will also then tailgate me until the junction.

Some drivers (typically the 'fast brigade') simply have poor acceleration sense. They can drive fast..but mostly only in a straight line and often misjudge their timing.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on September 18, 2018, 03:42:22 PM
Accelerator control is as important as clutch control, accelerating up to the braking point for a stop or problem that can be seen from way back is the sign of a driver to keep clear of or treat with caution.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on September 18, 2018, 04:28:09 PM
I posted this on another forum yesterday.

I had a similar one driving from Newcastle to Edinburgh up the A1 yesterday. A BMW (obviously) varying his speed from 50 to 60mph in the 60 limits and 60 and 70 in the 70 limits for no apparent reason. When I was eventually able to overtake him in a dual carriageway section he accelerated, obviously not aware that there is a more powerful Jazz around. He almost accelerated into the back of a car in lane one with this antic and then gave up and slowly dropped back as I pottered along on cruise control at the speed limit.

Driving standards were being discussed.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Downsizer on September 18, 2018, 05:35:11 PM
That implies that the car thinks I can drive nearly 500 miles on one tank.
I've had 480 miles between fills on one occasion, after long duel carriageway trips, and the refill was 38.5 litres, so I think 500 miles is certainly achievable.  The gauge was down to one bar and not many miles remaining, but on another occasion I drove 10 miles or so beyond the zero miles remaining.  I don't think anyone should worry about running it down to zero miles remaining, provided of course you know where the next filling station is!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John Ratsey on September 18, 2018, 06:13:33 PM
I've had 480 miles between fills on one occasion, after long duel carriageway trips, and the refill was 38.5 litres, so I think 500 miles is certainly achievable.  The gauge was down to one bar and not many miles remaining, but on another occasion I drove 10 miles or so beyond the zero miles remaining.  I don't think anyone should worry about running it down to zero miles remaining, provided of course you know where the next filling station is!
When I had the Mk 3 Jazz I once filled up after 504 miles with 1 bar remaining on the fuel gauge. I managed to get 36.78 litres into the tank. I suspect that the filler pipe also holds a litre or two which may not be part of the specified tank capacity and hence, if the tank is filled to the brim, it can take around 50 miles until the gauge moves off full. This pipe capacity needs to be added to the reserve based on a 40 litre capacity.

It's advisable to have a nearby backup filling place if running near empty just in case the first one is closed for some reason. Also hope there's no jam on the motorway just before the planned end of the journey - crawling traffic at walking pace is not an efficient way to make progress.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on September 18, 2018, 06:29:38 PM
So glad I don't do fuel gauge stress, I take a quarter of a tank as a hint that fuel is required. When doing Edinburgh / London runs I fill up at my half way overnight stop. That gives me a good contingency reserve.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Downsizer on September 18, 2018, 06:54:32 PM
I suspect that the filler pipe also holds a litre or two which may not be part of the specified tank capacity and hence, if the tank is filled to the brim, it can take around 50 miles until the gauge moves off full. This pipe capacity needs to be added to the reserve based on a 40 litre capacity.
I find it's typically 80 miles before the gauge moves off full after filling up to "2nd click". Then roughly 20 miles per bar.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 18, 2018, 07:04:32 PM
Well I won't be running it that low this week. I'm driving up to see my Dad at the weekend so will have to top up for that as it's almost 400 miles in total.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 22, 2018, 03:34:38 PM
I'm rather intrigued by mine at the moment. Due to a road closure I'm having to divert my commute and instead of 12 miles of A road at 50mph it's now almost entirely dual carriageway and motorway at 60mph with some delays at the A43/M40 junction where the idle stop comes into its own.

Although this has increased the distance by nearly 50% to 20 miles it has improved the reported fuel consumption. It had been showing around 54mpg over the summer but is now showing 58mpg. What's intriguing me is that after a week the fuel gauge is currently showing just under three quarters (for 200 miles) and the remaining distance is showing as 280 miles.
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7808.msg64495#msg64495

I thought 500 miles on one tank was unlikely.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: nigelr on September 22, 2018, 07:38:36 PM
As others have said, the range on the readout is just an estimate, which is continual, so for example if you start going uphill, or press on, it drops almost immediately. I tend to fill up when the range drops below 100 miles, but that's just me. There is something satisfying in getting a good range out of one tank, but you have to weigh that against the probability of running out of fuel - and dragging the bits of silt and whatnot that accumulate at the bottom of fuel tanks over time into the fuel pump. In general, I drive to the green eco light, and I'm averaging over 50mpg, so I don't fill up that often. Fantastic!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on September 22, 2018, 07:45:01 PM
I would normally fill up at half to two thirds empty but I have a long journey tomorrow with a return trip on Monday so decided I could just about get to/from work for a week then drive to my golf club and back before filling up for the trip. Turns out I was cutting it more fine than I thought.

I might have to start filling up once a week instead of every two weeks, especially with winter approaching. Irritating :-/
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: nigelr on September 29, 2018, 11:31:13 AM
Appropo of my driving days pre-Honda, I had an old Austin Princess, which was the most comfortable car I've ever owned with massive velour seats, but everything else was crap (e.g. when the hydragas suspension drained, it leant increasingly to one side). The fuel gauge never worked properly and I ran out twice, the only times in 35 years of driving I ever have done. So while the Jazz's gauge is a very simple affair, I'm still grateful for it's reliability - I'm sure younger drivers will find that amusing, but some of us remember how rubbish cars were in the 1970s and 80s - and how great they are now.  8)
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on September 29, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
I'm sure younger drivers will find that amusing, but some of us remember how rubbish cars were in the 1970s and 80s - and how great they are now.  8)

That's why modern cars often get neglected, to the point that they only get looked at during a MOT which some people seem to think is a service. Thankfully the days of fix it yourself or walk are long gone. Change the plugs, contact points and condenser, and while you are at it tune the carburettor anyone?
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on September 29, 2018, 02:30:31 PM
Old cars were pants, you can put carburettor and mechanical points in room 101. Give me fuel injection and separate coil packs every time, I had a Vauxhall and if you opened the bonnet at night it was like a lightning storm under there with ignition leakage, had to buy new distributor cap, new silicon leads and plug caps, and spray the whole lot with WD40 ( that is what it was designed for, although it did attract dirt like a dirt magnet ). Choke was pain in the butt as well, even the automatic chokes were pretty bad as they had to be sprayed with carb cleaner every so often to keep them working, and if the weather got too cold you crossed your fingers when trying to start the car.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 29, 2018, 02:57:18 PM
I loved working on old cars, but they were a nightmare to keep running correctly, and if neglected simply broke down.
My dad had a pre war Hillman that had grease nipples that required maintenance EVERY 500 MILES. Imagine trying to go anywhere with that!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on September 29, 2018, 05:39:52 PM
Old cars were pants, you can put carburettor and mechanical points in room 101. Give me fuel injection and separate coil packs every time, I had a Vauxhall and if you opened the bonnet at night it was like a lightning storm under there with ignition leakage, had to buy new distributor cap, new silicon leads and plug caps, and spray the whole lot with WD40 ( that is what it was designed for, although it did attract dirt like a dirt magnet ). Choke was pain in the butt as well, even the automatic chokes were pretty bad as they had to be sprayed with carb cleaner every so often to keep them working, and if the weather got too cold you crossed your fingers when trying to start the car.

+ 1

We often forget how underpowered they were as well. I had a 1.8 Sierra for a while with 90 bhp if I recall correctly and even that was quite sporty compared to the 1.6 with just 75 bhp. These were great lumbering beasts as well. Now we get a bit sniffy about the 1.3 Jazz with over 100 bhp in a small car.

0 - 60 times in old cars make interesting reading as well. The Jazz would be seen as a pocket rocket in those days and they weren't that long ago - (at least from my aged perspective!)
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on September 29, 2018, 06:25:47 PM
My second car was a Ford Consul Mk 1. It was so much more spirited than the Vauxhall Wyvern I learned to drive in.
The Consul 0-60 time is reported as 28 seconds (though I believe that was actually 0-50) and the Wyvern, 37.2 seconds.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: nigelr on September 29, 2018, 09:00:47 PM
My dad had a Consul, then a Cortina, which some guy had souped up. The speed and fuel gauges rose and fell in perfect sync LOL. The slowest car we had was a Datsun 120Y, which although I wrote it off 35 years ago, is still accelerating towards 60mph in car valhalla.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on September 30, 2018, 10:19:53 AM
The only Ford I ever owned was a Cherry red Sierra, a nice car but then I discovered Honda, never looked back....

Mind you working on those cars was easy, changed the Sierra clutch in no time ( rear wheel drive), mind you they needed a lot more attention than modern ones.

Had the misfortune to own a Vauxhall Viva HC with 1256 engine - 58 ponies and weighed about 900kg - needed a calendar to measure 0-60 and had a 36 litre fuel tank ( no wonder had to keep topping the tank up ) - nobody who has driven one would complain about a Jazz with any engine....

Came across this site    https://www.auto-data.net/en/allbrands      looks good for anyone looking for info on older right up to new cars.  Very tellingly they do not give a 0-60 time for Viva HC 1256
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John Ratsey on September 30, 2018, 11:02:45 PM
Since we've gone off-topic discussing old cars, my first was an Austin A35. It averaged 36mpg however it was driven and the fuel tank didn't cost much to fill since it only held 5.7 gallons so would need to be refilled at about 180 miles. The Zenith carburettor needed frequent maintenance to keep the engine running smoothly. I had removed it so many times that I could do it my torch light to take it indoors for cleaning. The heater was an optional extra, which the car had, at least until I blanked it off as it was leaking. The advertised 0-60 time was just under half a minute, helped by a very light gear change.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: richardfrost on October 01, 2018, 11:12:34 AM
The Consul 0-60 time is reported as 28 seconds (though I believe that was actually 0-50) and the Wyvern, 37.2 seconds.

I love that. 37.2. As if the 0.2 mattered, ha ha. Those were the days.

My first cast was Morris 1000 with the 1098cc engine. So basic and easy to understand. I had it when I was an student trainee at a defence electronics firm in 1979 and for an electronics project I  built a digital rev counter for it, using nuclear EM pulse resistant TI 54xx series chips.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 01, 2018, 12:56:48 PM
The Consul 0-60 time is reported as 28 seconds (though I believe that was actually 0-50) and the Wyvern, 37.2 seconds.

I love that. 37.2. As if the 0.2 mattered, ha ha. Those were the days.

My first cast was Morris 1000 with the 1098cc engine. So basic and easy to understand. I had it when I was an student trainee at a defence electronics firm in 1979 and for an electronics project I  built a digital rev counter for it, using nuclear EM pulse resistant TI 54xx series chips.

I thought Morris minors were already bombproof. I must admit to fitting electronic ignitions to a few cars though.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 01, 2018, 01:34:38 PM
I fitted a Sparkrite electronic ignition to my FIAT 126.

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/192663254668_/sparkrite-sx2000-electronic-ignition.jpg)

It didn't last long, I think due to the heat from the air cooled engine, so I built my own on a Maplin PCB. The idea was, if I built it I would be able to repair it, but it worked flawlessly until the car went to the great scrapyard in the sky. I had mounted it on the rear parcel shelf, to keep it out of the heat.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: richardfrost on October 01, 2018, 03:39:35 PM
I thought Morris minors were already bombproof. I must admit to fitting electronic ignitions to a few cars though.
Bombproof, but sadly not rustproof.

Interestingly, a few years later I had a 1500cc Spitfire which appeared to me to have a very similar engine. Was really easy to work on too given the way the whole front of the car hinged up for access allowing you to sit on a wheel to work.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 01, 2018, 03:48:36 PM
Was really easy to work on too given the way the whole front of the car hinged up for access allowing you to sit on a wheel to work.
We had a Triumph Herald, which was exactly the same.

(https://i.imgur.com/4YztfHB.jpg)
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 01, 2018, 04:23:29 PM
I have driven a few of them, the back axle soon teaches you to respect it!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on October 01, 2018, 04:38:40 PM
I have driven a few of them, the back axle soon teaches you to respect it!

Didn't the Triumph Vitesse have same chassis as Herald but 2 litre straight 6 engine - bit of a bad combination - too much power and not enough handling ( or brakes )  :o
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 01, 2018, 05:43:59 PM
I almost bought a 1600 Vitesse, from a neighbour, but after making the arrangements he decided to hang on to it.  :(
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John Ratsey on October 01, 2018, 09:03:43 PM
I thought Morris minors were already bombproof. I must admit to fitting electronic ignitions to a few cars though.
Bombproof, but sadly not rustproof.

Interestingly, a few years later I had a 1500cc Spitfire which appeared to me to have a very similar engine. Was really easy to work on too given the way the whole front of the car hinged up for access allowing you to sit on a wheel to work.
I was going to suggest the Austin A series engine https://www.aronline.co.uk/facts-and-figures/engines/engines-a-series/ but that only went to 1275cc, so a 1.5 litre would be the B series https://www.aronline.co.uk/facts-and-figures/engines/engines-b-series/ . The engine layouts had much in common.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: andruec on October 01, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
The A-series engine deserves a place in the motoring hall of fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: richardfrost on October 02, 2018, 01:14:10 AM
I have driven a few of them, the back axle soon teaches you to respect it!

Didn't the Triumph Vitesse have same chassis as Herald but 2 litre straight 6 engine - bit of a bad combination - too much power and not enough handling ( or brakes )  :o
Splayed rear wheels? The Spitfire had that. Made for interesting cornering indeed, especially in the wet. Always fancied upgrading to a GT6, the 2 litre, 6 cylinder (in-line!) hard top version,  it only ever managed to get the wooden gear knob from one. Probably saved my life as I reckon it would have been mad to drive.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 02, 2018, 06:49:16 AM
The Heralds and Spitfires didn't use the BMC A or B series engines at all, but a derivative of the old Standard Pennant engine. All small four pot motors looked very similar back then.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on October 02, 2018, 09:34:10 AM
The A-series engine deserves a place in the motoring hall of fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine


Yes,  a well designed engine (some of the first cars built by Datsun / Nissan were Austin A40 - I used to work with people when I was an apprentice who had to go to Japan to install the production lines ).  Also Japanese Engineering standards are heavily based on British Standards.

Interesting quote from article,  just what I was saying about i-DSi engine being more driveable than the later i-Vtec lumps,  and in my experience better mpg.

British Leyland was keen to update the old A-series design in the 1970s. However, attempts at replacement, including an aborted early-70s Rover K engine and an OHC version of the A series, ended in failure. During the development of what would become the Austin Metro, engineers tested the A series against its more modern rivals and found that it still offered competitive (or even class-leading) fuel economy and torque for its size. While in the 1970s the A series had begun to seem dated against a new generation of high-revving overhead cam engines, by the end of the decade a new emphasis on good economy and high torque outputs at low speeds meant that the A series's inherent design was still well up to market demands.

Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 02, 2018, 12:44:46 PM
This thread demonstrates what a boringly reliable car the Jazz is. I have yet to hear of anyone laying in a wet gutter fixing the oily bits of their jazz. Even the fuel gauge and reserve tank seems to be reliable, right up to the point where the car stops when the tank is empty.  :D
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on October 02, 2018, 01:22:14 PM
This thread demonstrates what a boringly reliable car the Jazz is. I have yet to hear of anyone laying in a wet gutter fixing the oily bits of their jazz. Even the fuel gauge and reserve tank seems to be reliable, right up to the point where the car stops when the tank is empty.  :D


+1

Visit other car forums and you can see massive problems being discussed. We can afford idle banter on this forum because to be honest problems are small, few and far between.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 02, 2018, 02:39:13 PM
This thread demonstrates what a boringly reliable car the Jazz is. I have yet to hear of anyone laying in a wet gutter fixing the oily bits of their jazz. Even the fuel gauge and reserve tank seems to be reliable, right up to the point where the car stops when the tank is empty.  :D


+1

Visit other car forums and you can see massive problems being discussed. We can afford idle banter on this forum because to be honest problems are small, few and far between.

And the problems are more likely to be personal preferences than defects or poor design.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ColinB on October 02, 2018, 02:45:05 PM
I have yet to hear of anyone laying in a wet gutter fixing the oily bits of their jazz.

No point in doing that while the car's still under warranty. Even the earliest Mk.3s are only now reaching 3 years old, ask the question again in a year's time. There have been a surprising number of people on here reporting issues that, whilst they don't cause the car to grind to a halt, do put a dent in Honda's reputation.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on October 02, 2018, 03:04:46 PM
I have yet to hear of anyone laying in a wet gutter fixing the oily bits of their jazz.

No point in doing that while the car's still under warranty. Even the earliest Mk.3s are only now reaching 3 years old, ask the question again in a year's time. There have been a surprising number of people on here reporting issues that, whilst they don't cause the car to grind to a halt, do put a dent in Honda's reputation.

A lot of those 'problems' are perceived to be with infotainment and other superficial stuff ( except maybe Honda bonkers decision to fit a well known problematic dual mass flywheel to a small petrol car on mk3 ).  Non of my Hondas has ever let my down even in the slightest, certainly not set on fire or left me stranded, and all that with me doing the servicing, not some expensive main stealer. In fact except for accepted wearing parts like brake pads, discs, cambelts and exhausts the cars never had a spanner on them even after large mileages, and plenty of 7 and even 6 gen civics around, and plenty of mk1 Jazz still in regular use.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John Ratsey on October 02, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
This thread demonstrates what a boringly reliable car the Jazz is. I have yet to hear of anyone laying in a wet gutter fixing the oily bits of their jazz. Even the fuel gauge and reserve tank seems to be reliable, right up to the point where the car stops when the tank is empty.  :D
We're almost back on topic. :o Which is how far the Jazz can carry on running when it says that the fuel tank is empty?
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 02, 2018, 10:13:12 PM
This thread demonstrates what a boringly reliable car the Jazz is. I have yet to hear of anyone laying in a wet gutter fixing the oily bits of their jazz. Even the fuel gauge and reserve tank seems to be reliable, right up to the point where the car stops when the tank is empty.  :D
We're almost back on topic. :o Which is how far the Jazz can carry on running when it says that the fuel tank is empty?

That's a how long is a piece of string question. It depends on speed driven, car load, ambient temperature, engine and transmission temperature, tyre pressures, any stop/starts, traffic density, type of road, any gradients, altitude above sea level, and a few more variables I can't think of at the moment. All you can be absolutly sure of is the car will stop when the fuel runs out.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 03, 2018, 05:49:30 AM
ambient temperature
I am already noticing a drop in the distance my car coasts (not so much coasting, just a L-O-N-G time in neutral as I change down for a junction!), as the temperature drops. This is due to the tyres being stiffer on the cold roads. Wet roads also have a marked effect. There are so many things affect what you get out a set amount of petrol.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John A on October 03, 2018, 06:37:56 AM
That's a how long is a piece of string question.

Twice the distance from the centre to one end  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on October 03, 2018, 08:55:04 AM
We're almost back on topic. :o Which is how far the Jazz can carry on running when it says that the fuel tank is empty?

Hope I never have to find out - I guess that is the reason vehicle makers fit a graduated gauge display rather than just a warning message to tell you 'your fuel tank is almost empty but your guess is as good as mine how far you can drive until engine stops'.  I find understanding the gauge display quite easy, and if used properly will prevent you ever having to see the fuel light (I could not tell you if the one on my car works or not).
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: nigelr on October 03, 2018, 09:35:30 AM
I've had 30 miles when the tank was apparently empty - then chickened out and filled up.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 03, 2018, 10:16:18 AM
We has a 1966 FIAT 500 which only had a warning light. Mind you, back then every town and village had a garage which sold petrol. We had 3, AND a filling station!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 03, 2018, 10:19:37 AM
I have never run out of fuel, but I don't play fuel gauge roulette or stress. I don't care what the reserve is, I will never get near it. All it needs is a few seconds thought and planning before a long journey. Try driving from Aberdeen to Ullapool via Thurso without planning fuel stops.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 03, 2018, 10:23:34 AM
My warning light just came on this morning. I will fill up, tomorrow morning, after I drop the boss off at work. About a further 8 miles. That is far enough for me to go on a low tank.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 03, 2018, 06:04:31 PM
Checked my ScanGauge E, and it tells me I have 93 miles left! I'll do the sums, when I top up, and see how optimistic that is.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on October 03, 2018, 10:23:49 PM
Getting a bit twitchy now. Only 198 miles to go. I try to discipline myself to let it go down to a 100 by which time I am losing sleep!

Needless to say I've never run out although, in the past, I have had the light come on usually when on a motorway and not wanting to pay motorway prices.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 04, 2018, 07:13:51 AM
My warning light came on yesterday. Did about 30 miles from then until I topped up this morning. According to the fuel added and mpg achieved I still had 65 miles left when I filled up today, about 95 miles from the light coming on until totally empty. Not that I am going to test that out!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John A on October 04, 2018, 08:05:15 AM
I have had the light come on usually when on a motorway and not wanting to pay motorway prices.

Put £10 of fuel in, not a full tank and happiness is restored, without emptying the wallet  :D
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 04, 2018, 11:39:50 AM
Getting a bit twitchy now. Only 198 miles to go. I try to discipline myself to let it go down to a 100 by which time I am losing sleep!

Needless to say I've never run out although, in the past, I have had the light come on usually when on a motorway and not wanting to pay motorway prices.

Sods law the time you run low on a motorway is the time there is a huge traffic problem. If I was in that situation (unlikely) I would put in a £10 squirt of fuel to ensure I could get to sensibly priced fuel, if it exists these days!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 05, 2018, 11:42:25 AM
Getting a bit twitchy now. Only 198 miles to go. I try to discipline myself to let it go down to a 100 by which time I am losing sleep!

Needless to say I've never run out although, in the past, I have had the light come on usually when on a motorway and not wanting to pay motorway prices.

Sods law the time you run low on a motorway is the time there is a huge traffic problem. If I was in that situation (unlikely) I would put in a £10 squirt of fuel to ensure I could get to sensibly priced fuel, if it exists these days!

Just watching "A1 Britain's longest road", a guy got a £50 fine for running out of fuel and " Obstructing the carriageway", it was a Friday PM rush hour on a section of road without a hard shoulder and caused a huge tailback. This prompted a Google and it is not uncommon to get fined and if it is a Motorway the charge is "Driving without due care" and it is points on the licence as well.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: richardfrost on October 05, 2018, 11:52:13 AM
Just watching "A1 Britain's longest road", a guy got a £50 fine for running out of fuel and " Obstructing the carriageway", it was a Friday PM rush hour on a section of road without a hard shoulder and caused a huge tailback. This prompted a Google and it is not uncommon to get fined and if it is a Motorway the charge is "Driving without due care" and it is points on the licence as well.

Too right. There's no excuse for doing something daft like that and inconveniencing everyone else.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on October 05, 2018, 01:15:06 PM
Just to be clear on the motorway thing, I'd never take it to the limit - light on and I'd put a tenner's worth in at the next services.

As I've got older I've become even more conservative. It's a few years since I've had the light come on. I do know people who like the Russian Roulette thing - never understood it myself. Electric car owners are prone to boasting that they got to a charge point in something called Turtle mode!

People who run out and cause the chaos referred to above deserve a hefty fine.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 05, 2018, 01:18:03 PM
Just watching "A1 Britain's longest road", a guy got a £50 fine for running out of fuel and " Obstructing the carriageway", it was a Friday PM rush hour on a section of road without a hard shoulder and caused a huge tailback. This prompted a Google and it is not uncommon to get fined and if it is a Motorway the charge is "Driving without due care" and it is points on the licence as well.

Too right. There's no excuse for doing something daft like that and inconveniencing everyone else.

I can't understand why some people enjoy driving around with their low fuel warning on. Refuling a car does not even approach rocket science.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Jocko on October 05, 2018, 02:06:20 PM
I can remember my dad running out of petrol on a couple of occasions, because he had no money to buy petrol until his wages were paid. I am sure that there are people who run their cars like that even today.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on October 05, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
I can remember my dad running out of petrol on a couple of occasions, because he had no money to buy petrol until his wages were paid. I am sure that there are people who run their cars like that even today.

Fair point. A couple of years ago, a young lady in a little Peugeot spluttered to a halt at the T junction opposite our house. Myself and a neighbour pushed her out of harms way and she told us she was a nursery nurse and a bit skint and was hoping to eke out the last tenner's worth she'd put in until pay day.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on October 05, 2018, 05:35:38 PM
I can remember my dad running out of petrol on a couple of occasions, because he had no money to buy petrol until his wages were paid. I am sure that there are people who run their cars like that even today.

Fair point. A couple of years ago, a young lady in a little Peugeot spluttered to a halt at the T junction opposite our house. Myself and a neighbour pushed her out of harms way and she told us she was a nursery nurse and a bit skint and was hoping to eke out the last tenner's worth she'd put in until pay day.

I don't think poverty is an excuse for the people posting here who are running a less than three year old MK3 Jazz and also complaining that their £XXX phone won't connect to the car. :D
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on October 05, 2018, 09:43:16 PM
LOL

It was quite an old peugeot.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: RichardA on October 21, 2018, 11:23:25 AM
I fill up when the light comes unless I'm planning a long trip. I normally get 36 litres in.

The low fuel light on my Fiat Punto Mk2 used to come ridiculously early, just under 1/4 of a tank left. The Fiat Uno I learnt to drive in used to the same. I knew someone who had a 90s Alfa GTV, that used to do the same. Must be an Italian thing.

My cousin got caught out years ago when the fuel light came on his Ford Orion Mk2. Seconds later the car came spluttering to a halt.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ChrisNewman on November 08, 2018, 04:18:39 PM
I was surprised to read the references to the system showing 0 miles.  After the Low Fuel Indicator comes on in our Jazz, it continues to show the estimated distance we could travel on the remaining fuel until this gets down to about 20 miles, when that part of the display disappears.  I noticed the same behaviour in a hired Nissan Versa Note we were returning to the airport in Hawaii (we did make it to the airport OK!)  I assumed the systems are set up like this so that the manufacturers donít get complaints either that the car ran out of fuel when it still showed 5 miles-worth in the tank, or that it had been driven for another 10 miles without problems after the last of the fuel was reported as having been used.

Can anyone confirm that their Jazz has actually shown 0 or single figures-worth of miles from the remaining fuel?

I donít always rush to fill the tank as soon as the fuel light comes on, because there are particular occasions when it is most convenient to fill up with good-value fuel.  Also, I think the Jazz has the smallest tank of any car weíve had in the last 30 years or so (but perhaps not the shortest range).  (I very much appreciate having the remaining range shown, in addition to the warning light which can only show on or off.) 

I think the first car we had with a fuel warning light was our Corolla.  The first time it came on, I put a gallon can of fuel in the boot, and left things until the engine began to stutter, which was about 100 miles after the light came on.  Iíve never repeated that check on subsequent cars.  We now live very close to the M1 and M25, and our journeys often include one of those motorways!


Chris
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on November 08, 2018, 07:03:31 PM
If you have particular occaisions to fill up why not fill up on those occasions whether the car needs it or not? Something like less than half full + occaision = fill up. No more fule gauge roulette or stress.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on November 08, 2018, 08:37:55 PM
Is there anything in the view that it's better to keep the tank half full most of the time? I've seen this view on a few American sites including a self styled fuel economy expert "Dr Roadmap." The argument is the saving in having an empty tank, in weight terms, is negligible but by having the tank topped off you avoid evaporation and condensation. Not sure I follow this line of argument but I've heard it expressed more than once.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: culzean on November 08, 2018, 08:50:26 PM
Have never let my tank get much less than quarter full ( on gauge) and normally fill up at around half full - mainly because ( a Jocko would say ) a car without fuel is only good for keeping chickens in, and service stations seems to be getting fewer and further apart - if you are going anywhere in snow always make sure you have plenty of fuel, because the extra weight gives more grip ( especially with Honda having tank towards front of car ) and if you get stuck running the engine may keep you warm enough to keep you alive...............
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Downsizer on November 08, 2018, 10:32:11 PM
In answer to Chris Newman's question, I can confirm that my 2016 Jazz has shown single figures of miles remaining (including 1 mile) on a few occasions when I'm coming home to our local ASDA.   Once I drove several miles beyond zero, but I can't remember if it showed a negative figure!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: Skyrider on November 09, 2018, 11:10:44 AM
Is there anything in the view that it's better to keep the tank half full most of the time? I've seen this view on a few American sites including a self styled fuel economy expert "Dr Roadmap." The argument is the saving in having an empty tank, in weight terms, is negligible but by having the tank topped off you avoid evaporation and condensation. Not sure I follow this line of argument but I've heard it expressed more than once.

I dont think there would be any difference in real world driving. I just fill up when the tank is down to a quarter (ish), I don't see the point of self inflicted fuel gauge stress.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: richardfrost on November 09, 2018, 11:44:54 AM
Is there anything in the view that it's better to keep the tank half full most of the time?
I much prefer to keep my tank half full than half empty.
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: peteo48 on November 09, 2018, 12:33:39 PM
Same with glasses ;D
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ChrisNewman on November 09, 2018, 12:36:10 PM
If you have particular occaisions to fill up why not fill up on those occasions whether the car needs it or not? Something like less than half full + occaision = fill up. No more fule gauge roulette or stress.
Our cheapest local fuel is at Asda.  My wife and I shop there most Mondays, but our live-in son uses the Jazz to commute to work, so we normally go to Asda in the Primera (and can usually fill it there conveniently when it gets down to about ľ or beyond).  Often our son pays more to fill the Jazz at the end of our road, but I drive it a lot evenings and weekends, and there are times when I think Iíll be able to modify a journey past Asda before it runs out, without too much inconvenience.  Thanks to the range count-down, Iíve never felt significantly stressed over it, although on one occasion recently I turned down an offer to accompany a walking group for a pub meal (not the pub I would have expected), as the fuel light came on when heading for the walk, and the pub was further in the same direction.

Chris
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ChrisNewman on November 09, 2018, 12:41:28 PM
In answer to Chris Newman's question, I can confirm that my 2016 Jazz has shown single figures of miles remaining (including 1 mile) on a few occasions when I'm coming home to our local ASDA.   Once I drove several miles beyond zero, but I can't remember if it showed a negative figure!
Thanks for that - quite a surprise, as I keep a pretty close eye on ours when it gets low (as might be expected).  But if I get down into that territory again, Iíll watch it extra carefully to see if it continues to show a tiny remaining range.

Chris
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ChrisNewman on November 09, 2018, 12:52:39 PM
Is there anything in the view that it's better to keep the tank half full most of the time? I've seen this view on a few American sites including a self styled fuel economy expert "Dr Roadmap." The argument is the saving in having an empty tank, in weight terms, is negligible but by having the tank topped off you avoid evaporation and condensation. Not sure I follow this line of argument but I've heard it expressed more than once.
I find it very hard to believe that evaporation of fuel could ever match the extra consumption necessary to accelerate the greater weight of a full tank, unless your car stood unused for long periods in changing temperatures between only short journeys.  But I think the evaporating fuel would be worse for the environment than burning it to CO2, which reminds me that these days Iím used to hearing a hiss when I open the filler cap (although I couldnít swear this happens with our Jazz, or just our Primera and previous Micra).  I think these tanks are sealed to prevent escape of petrol vapour.  (I noticed fancy seals on western USA filling station hoses, so I was surprised to find that our Jazz has an awkward filler hole that prevents the nozzle being inserted full depth.)

Chris
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: John A on November 09, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
so I was surprised to find that our Jazz has an awkward filler hole that prevents the nozzle being inserted full depth.)

Probably designed so that it's harder to get a diesel nozzle in there. Not impossible, as you can make things fool proof, but not idiot proof!
Title: Re: Reserve tank
Post by: ChrisNewman on November 09, 2018, 02:11:53 PM
so I was surprised to find that our Jazz has an awkward filler hole that prevents the nozzle being inserted full depth.)

Probably designed so that it's harder to get a diesel nozzle in there. Not impossible, as you can make things fool proof, but not idiot proof!
But I notice that the fillers have a rubber disk behind the nozzle, that appears to be designed to be pressed against the opening to the fuel tank, and when Iím filling our Primera, or used to fill our Micra, this would prevent splashes and limit the vapour loss during filling (although these disks are much more basic than the system used in the USA).  With our Jazz, I canít get that disk closer than a few inches from the filler hole.  I think the issue is with the shape of the pipe a little way in - I donít think the opening is any smaller than that of the Primera or Micra.  I canít comment about diesel nozzles, having never had the worry of overlooking whether I was filling a diesel or petrol car.  It was bad enough having two Nissans with fillers on opposite sides; fortunately our Jazz replace the Micra and has its filler the same side as the Primera.

Chris