Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz, HR-V & Hybrid Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: D3DSL on May 16, 2018, 10:08:53 AM

Title: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 16, 2018, 10:08:53 AM
Just noticed that the AC is not playing, just ambient temp air out of the vents, regardless of what temp is dialled into the climate control system.  Iíve seen a fair few threads on forums that the condenser is the usual suspect, however still in shock at a price of £750 (incl regassing) from the Inverness Honda dealer.

The condenser is certainly in a really, really rough way, and the pics below donít really do its roughness justice.  The lower section is jammed solid with muck, seeds, bugs, etc, etc., and whole sections of the fins missing.  Also a new symptom, or we just havenít noticed it, is that the ďfanĒ not powering up after starting or when driving around, something that had always happened since the car was new.  Iím wondering if that fan is part of the AC system, not the engine cooling system as Iíd just assumed.  Car is an 11 plate Jazz GE.

Pics of condenser as promised:

(http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11110/normal_0A57C93D-E851-4DE2-A14C-261C2EE630CF.jpeg)

(http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11110/AC31DEFF-A621-4DE4-93DE-1622DBE77817.jpeg)

Any thoughts out there before I just have it regassed and hope that if it is just a slow leak then it will last the summer?

TIA

Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: culzean on May 16, 2018, 10:53:58 AM
Is the A/C clutch pulling in ? you will hear a clunk and maybe a change in engine note. The system has a pressure switch and if gas pressure is low the clutch will not pull in, not sure if fans still run ( the engine and A/C both run together when aircon selected, maybe to make sure hot air from aircon rad does not get blown through engine cooling radiator). 

There have been horror pictures of heat exchangers posted on here and consensus seems to be don't use high pressure water jets on the radiators.

It does not help that Honda does not think it necessary to fit mesh in the cooling gaps in bumper, which lets stones and other crap through.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 16, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
Only time the car gets washed is itís annual service, wouldnít be surprised if they did use a power washer on the front.

Iíve just been out fiddling with the car, doing the obvious and checked the AC clutch and condenser fuse, both OK.  I then started get up and the AC clutch kicked in briefly, freezing air from the vent with my hand in front of it but then the temp rose up to ambient (10c at the mo).  Going to get it refilled and see if that works.  If it lasts the summer then thatís good enough for me.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: richardfrost on May 16, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
I think Kwik Fit used to to a 'no regrets' refill. As in, if they refilled your A/C and it did not cure your problem, there was no charge.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: TopDown on May 16, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Save your money. I think Summer's over  :D
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 16, 2018, 02:38:24 PM
Up in this part of the world Monday was the first day when it was warm enough to tell something was amiss.  AC might have not been working since this time last year!!

Iíve got a load of tyre swaps to do at our local ATS so will get them to try refilling it.  ISTR they do a pressure test so if there is a leak then I can go off and get that fixed first.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: sparky Paul on May 16, 2018, 06:06:27 PM
My condensor looks pretty rough too, but the aircon still functions pretty well. It's only the cooling fins that are disappearing, the actual pipes that carry the gas look reasonably okay. As culzean says, don't go anywhere near is with a pressure washer, or you will lose some more of it.

I then started get up and the AC clutch kicked in briefly, freezing air from the vent with my hand in front of it but then the temp rose up to ambient (10c at the mo).

Sounds like it 's holding some gas, which is good news. As soon as the compressor starts, it's dropping the low side below the minimum pressure switch threshold. Probably not a leak, you get natural leakage of the gas past the seals in the pipework, particularly if the aircon is not used for a period, allowing the seals to dry out. For that reason, it's a good idea to run the aircon at least once a week, even in the winter, just to redistribute the oil throughout the system - this helps prevent leakage of the refrigerant. Eventually, however, all systems need regassing.

If you take it for a re-gas, they will do a vacuum test before refilling. It's not infallible, but it should find any significant leaks. Any of the more difficult slow leaks can usually be found after regassing, either with a sniffer tool or by putting a UV dye in the gas.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: Jocko on May 16, 2018, 06:44:25 PM
I had 9 years without regassing (no idea how many years it had gone before I got it) but I used my AC constantly, summer and winter. Among other things, it keeps the car dry inside. Stops that damp smell when you trail snow in on your feet!
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: zzaj on May 16, 2018, 07:44:44 PM
I had 9 years without regassing (no idea how many years it had gone before I got it) but I used my AC constantly, summer and winter. Among other things, it keeps the car dry inside. Stops that damp smell when you trail snow in on your feet!

I leave mine on summer and winter too.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: Spencer69 on May 16, 2018, 08:29:29 PM
Can't say use ours as much as others...that what windows are for!

But, on serious note, does it not advise somewhere that we should 'use'/turn on air con for at least 10 mins, once a month, to keep things running!
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 16, 2018, 08:35:27 PM
The AC on the car is on all the time. Helps demisting with 2 big wet dogs, sadly as of last week now one :-(

Will switch AC off tomorrow and leave it off until it gets regassed, probably next week sometime.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: Jocko on May 16, 2018, 09:27:17 PM
My Volvo, the AC came on automatically if you switched the fan on while the control was set for Demist. The only way you could stop it was by selecting Recirc.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: 123Drive! on May 17, 2018, 07:46:13 AM
Honda always gives you the worst situation. Get a Aircon specialist and get 2nd opinion. Are you sure the gas is not leaking? My garage put a dye for me many years ago on a Civic after regas to check where the leak was.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 17, 2018, 04:38:54 PM
Right, confession time.  Went to switch off the AC this morning, reached for the on/off button and SWMBO chirps out ďitís already off!Ē.  Hmmmmm, thinks I, wonder if that was the problem all along.  Couldnít test it this morning as it was +3c setting off to walk the dog, +5c when back home.  Waited anxiously until the afternoon walk, temps well up so difference would be easily apparent and sure enough AC = on meant freeeeeeeeeezing cold air.  :o

Looks like when MrsDSL was randomly stabbing buttons (as is her way) she managed to switch the AC off.  I am deffo blaming her, and needless to say she is definitely blaming me, however itís her car so that trumps all.

Many thanks for all your assistance, Iíve learned lots from the exercise including how to get to the fuses, and my faith in my Jazzes is restored.  ;D :D

And also glad none of you lot are on the Disco3 forum, a place where my techie superpowers are legend.  Not. LOL

Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: Jocko on May 17, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
And also glad none of you lot are on the Disco3 forum, a place where my techie superpowers are legend.  Not. LOL
We are now!
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: Bristolroversfc on May 17, 2018, 05:32:12 PM
D3DSL
Glad you got air con sorted.
Sorry to hear you lost one of your beloved friends last week.
Lost our Springer 5 weeks ago.
Heartbreaking isnt it :(
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 17, 2018, 05:48:56 PM
@Jocko: Not a problem, wonít be the first time theyíve had a chuckle at my expense.  ;D

@Bristolroversfc: Many thanks.  Was not unexpected but still heartbreaking.  He was 12 1/2 and getting slower & slower, finally running out of steam.  Heís now in the back garden so we still speak to him.

Gratuitous pic of Sam (left and no longer with us) with his bruv Toby, taken a few days before the end. 

(http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11110/FD53292E-7563-4F18-8AED-9C93554EAA7E.jpeg)
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: 123Drive! on May 17, 2018, 11:01:26 PM
Great news! And Honda wanted how much???

The moral of the story is if it's too expensive, always get a 2nd opinion. My i-Shift actuator went couple of months ago and Honda wanted £2k! Luckily with the help of this Forum, a specialist did it for £320!
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: John A on May 18, 2018, 07:05:56 AM
Right, confession time.  Went to switch off the AC this morning, reached for the on/off button and SWMBO chirps out ďitís already off!Ē.  Hmmmmm, thinks I, wonder if that was the problem all along. 

When selecting aircon, the first bit is for it to be off, then you have to select it again to get the aircon on. Not sure that is sensible for my logic!
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: richardfrost on May 18, 2018, 08:29:06 AM
Lovely dogs you have (and had).

Can I ask if you used a ramp or anything to help them get in your Disco, or were they all able to make the jump?

I have a couple of elderly dogs I can't easily lift anymore and they struggle sometimes to jump into my Rav4.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: JohnAlways on May 18, 2018, 08:42:08 AM
My GE air con button has a green LED when it's supposed to be on but not sure about the GD
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 18, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
Lovely dogs you have (and had).

Can I ask if you used a ramp or anything to help them get in your Disco, or were they all able to make the jump?

I have a couple of elderly dogs I can't easily lift anymore and they struggle sometimes to jump into my Rav4.

We never needed a ramp for Sam, the now gone one, he would just step up to get his front legs up into the Jazz then weíd lift his back end in.  He was a heavy one (38kgs) so we had to be careful lifting him.  Toby just chucks himself in, we now have to make sure we give his back end a little help as he clatters his back legs off the seat base if we donít.  Itís one of the reasons weíve had 4 jazzes (still running 2 of them), they are ideal dog-mobiles.  In the last few weeks Sam loved just staying in the car for a few hours after his walks, often parked up in the back garden with the doors open.  Great for watching the world going past and the birds flying around.

(http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11110/1E6C70F3-0D3D-4CA0-A671-F7BF8AC4F2E2.jpeg)
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 18, 2018, 09:23:39 AM
My GE air con button has a green LED when it's supposed to be on but not sure about the GD

On our GE it just has AC = ON (or OFF) in the round display, for us the green light in the separate switch is that air is coming in from outside as opposed to recirculating. 
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: John A on May 18, 2018, 12:24:30 PM
On our GE it just has AC = ON (or OFF) in the round display, for us the green light in the separate switch is that air is coming in from outside as opposed to recirculating.

Same as my GG
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 20, 2018, 05:21:15 PM
And that was way too easy.  MrsDSL did a long drive today and reports that it deffo doesnít work.  (https://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/boese/e055.gif)

Itís back to plan A, or is it B, will get her (the car not SWMBO) regassed.  (https://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/froehlich/a040.gif)
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: VicW on May 20, 2018, 07:35:08 PM
One point to bear in mind is that if the air circulation fan is turned off the aircon goes off as well. It assumes that if you don't want any air you don't want any aircon.

Vic.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 21, 2018, 12:34:51 PM
Fan was deffobately on, so Iím told, resorted to windows open at 70mph to get air to MrsDSL and dog in the back. :-(
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: steveha on May 21, 2018, 04:47:54 PM
My 09 Jazz never gets any cooler with the green light on. Turning it on and off does affect the tacho so I think the clutch, relay etc are working. However, I have strong evidence that the car wasn't used for at least 6 months before I got it.

Suggestions?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: John A on May 21, 2018, 09:48:00 PM
My aircon works with it in either recirc or exterior, just like every other car I've owned.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: Jocko on May 21, 2018, 09:59:08 PM
My Volvo S40 only worked on fresh air.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: JohnAlways on May 22, 2018, 11:50:33 AM
I'm like John A. I put mine on recirc when starting off in the heat and once car has warmed (in the engine) and cooled in the cabin change to fresh air coming in.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 22, 2018, 05:19:33 PM
Well that was easy.  Regassed and freezing heading home. ;D

Unfortunately too easy.  Had the temp at 16, freezing air, put it up to 20, still freezing for about 5 minutes then got warmer & warmer up to ambient.  Cranked it down to 16c, no change.  Hmmmmmm, that was a waste of money thought I.  Then 5 mins later (had switched to Auto but that didnít make any immediate change) it went cold as a cold thing, only to warm up after a few minutes.

Will try it again tomorrow on 2 short trips (only 6 miles/20 mins) and see how it behaves.

Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: John A on May 22, 2018, 06:18:34 PM
Auto may or may not have the aircon working, probably more reliable to select it to on, and see what happens. Especially if you opt to have the airflow down towards the feet, and wear sandles  :o
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 22, 2018, 06:37:19 PM
Thatís what Iím going to try, ish.  Leave it on 16c and pointed at my face, then will easily feel what is going on.  See if it cuts in & out.  On Sunday when SWMBO was doing a 10 hour drive it didnít cut in at all, was getting a bit toastie for most of that.
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 23, 2018, 04:05:28 PM
Deffo doesnít work, warm enough today to tell.  SWMBO doesnít want to play parts roulette so just going to live with it for now.  Worse case senario it gets super scorchio, SWMBO uses my 11 year old GD and I use my Disco.  Now thatís a hot summer guaranteed!!!!  :o
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: Jocko on May 23, 2018, 04:11:49 PM
I can sympathise. I would give my left b***ock for A/C. Last Saturday's drive was a scorcher, and I will need to apologise to my driving instructor on Friday, if the weather turns out as forecast.
The thing is, I have been driving for 53 years and only ever had A/C from 2007 to 2016. Must have made me soft!
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on May 30, 2018, 08:31:38 PM
NJ (New Jazz as opposed to OJ/Old Jazz) is going into a local garage tomorrow to look into the no AC malarkie, will update when they find the problem.👍
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: ReverseParker on May 30, 2018, 09:00:28 PM
AC works fine for me, and was very handy for the summer just gone. I have permanently cold hands, and my gripe is I can't get warm air through the centre dash vents and the side vents at the same time in a Jazz. In my civic I could, and would point the vents at my hands on the wheel. Now I have the choice of warming one hand at a time or wearing driving gloves (shudder)
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: John Ratsey on May 31, 2018, 04:41:07 PM
AC works fine for me, and was very handy for the summer just gone. I have permanently cold hands, and my gripe is I can't get warm air through the centre dash vents and the side vents at the same time in a Jazz. In my civic I could, and would point the vents at my hands on the wheel. Now I have the choice of warming one hand at a time or wearing driving gloves (shudder)
Which reminds me that my Austin Maestro could provide cool fresh air through the dashboard vents at the same time as providing warm air for the windscreen and feet. None of my more recent vehicles have been able to do this. Progress?
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: D3DSL on June 03, 2018, 04:39:41 PM
Well it went into a local garage I use and they had a good look.  It seems the AC comes on, then decides itís going to switch off and stay off.  When I drove it the few miles home the AC was cold as a cold thing.  Today it started cold and then warmed up to ambient.  Thy thought there was a sensor that was playing up and needed either a new AC pump at £625 (plus regassing) with no guarantee that thatís the issue, or in the heater box in the dash which would need the dash out with costs unknown, no thanks.  SWMBO has made the executive decision to live without AC, we donít want to get into expensive parts roulette.

Now thatís us guaranteed to have a scorchio summer.  :o
Title: Re: Air con not working, thoughts?
Post by: ianhj on June 06, 2018, 07:57:29 PM
Could it be a faulty relay? I know Honda had a problem with a batch of Omron relays.

Iím not normally a fan (no pun intended!) of just replacing parts but for around £20 it might be worth it.

Hope you get it sorted.