Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015-2020 => Topic started by: guest6112 on March 01, 2018, 07:21:23 PM
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I assume that the sport model owners have discovered by now that LED headlights do not melt snow. :-)
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I assume that the sport model owners have discovered by now that LED headlights do not melt snow. :-)
That is true (it was the only concern when I fitted LED bulbs to our cars) but neither do they try to melt the plastic headlight lens and bake insects, pollution and salt onto the lens. I often had to clean crap off lenses with filament bulbs anyway before driving, now I never hardly clean them except a monthly wipe over with autoglym SRP to inhibit UV and heat damage from the Sun maybe.
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Not a problem during the warranty period, but does a LED headlight failure mean a complete headlight unit replacement? I know that a MOT fail for a LED light unit is more than 50% of the LEDs out in the light unit. I am not sure if or how this applies to headlights.
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LED bulbs are legal in LED approved light units. So if your lights were fitted with LEDs, as originally supplied, it is perfectly legal to fit a replacement LED.
MOT will only fail LED bulbs in Non-LED enclosures.
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I am not refering to aftermarket or replaceable LED bulbs. If 50% or more of the LEDs in a unit (rear light for example) have failed it is an MOT fail.
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I understand. Same principal as if one of two number plate lights are not working.
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It would be interesting, (to an anorak like me) to know if the LEDs in a Sport headlamp are replaceable or if it is a whole unit job. My guess would be its "Sorry sir, that will be a new headlight at £ lots!"
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The handbook entry under Replacing Light Bulbs states
"Models with LED high and low beam headlights
High beam and low beam headlights are LED type. Have an authorized Honda dealer inspect and replace the light assembly"
A quick look under the bonnet seems to confirm this as there is no obvious way to replace the LED unit in situ. Whether or not the Honda dealer can disassemble the unit off the car and replace the light source is not clear but I suspect not.
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Thanks, JandJ. I rely on you early adopters to suss things out before I commit. :-)
IMO Honda dealers are replacers, not fixers.
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Had rear cluster replaced due to failure. It was done under warranty job but cost was £296 for the cluster+ 60 labour inc VAT.
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Had rear cluster replaced due to failure. It was done under warranty job but cost was £296 for the cluster+ 60 labour inc VAT.
If I replied to that with what I thought I'd be banned.
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So much for modern technology a few years ago it was about a £1 for a new bulb. :o
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Look on the "bright" side - LED's are generally very reliable!
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So much for modern technology a few years ago it was about a £1 for a new bulb. :o
Just like modern TV's etc. - repairmen are an endangered species, no replaceable parts, just bin the whole
thing and buy a buy one (technology moving that fast that anything over a few years old is easily classed as beyond economic repair). Things are more reliable, but rarely designed to be fixable when do fail.
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It would be interesting, (to an anorak like me) to know if the LEDs in a Sport headlamp are replaceable or if it is a whole unit job. My guess would be its "Sorry sir, that will be a new headlight at £ lots!"
No, they are not replaceable. If one or more Led emitter fail, you have to change the whole headlight unit.
But we should consider the lifespan:
halogen bulbs last 300-600 hours;
xenon bulbs 2000-4000 hours;
led emitters, when well cooled, last more than 25000h.
Halogen and HID bulbs have to be replaceable, Led emitters last as long as the car.
IMHO it's definetly better to have powerful headlights all along the year than have snow melted during some days in winter and low performance headlights.
Look at the difference between the 3 technologies from page 14... http://mkdb.hella.com/hellamk/upload/MKData/977_90mm_Gesamtbroschuere_HELLA_EN.pdf
In Italy LED headlights are standard on sport and elegance trims (should be the EX in UK), shape and joints are the same of halogen headlights but electrical connections are different.
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At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?
I anticipate someone will say “They’re brighter, therefore better”. Personally I disagree with the “arms race” that is putting more and brighter lights on the front of every new model. The standard lights on my Jazz are perfectly adequate - passengers have commented on how effective they are - without needing to be enhanced further. Having unnecessarily bright lights simply annoys or blinds other drivers, especially those SUV/crossover marques with high-mounted lights whose drivers don’t understand the concept of maintaining a safe following distance.
The preceding discussion suggests they are expensive, so there’s no cost saving, and you may even be paying a premium to have them.
Presumably they have a lower power consumption than standard bulbs, but is that significant enough to result in a benefit to the owner (maybe better mpg) ?
So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?
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It's an arms race. LEDs are old technology, lasers are the in thing. I am quite happy with a £5 replaceable headlight bulb.
https://www.osram.com/am/specials/trends-in-automotive-lighting/laser-light-new-headlight-technology/index.jsp
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At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?
So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?
Good LED bulbs make night driving safer, both for the driver and others. I put some of the expensive ClassicCarLED H4 bulbs https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v) into my HR-V and night driving is now a tolerable experience rather than being very challenging. I'll note, however, that my eyes are well past their best-before date.
The dipped lights provides two well-focussed pools of white light - one in front of the vehicle and the other on the nearside edge of the road and help me see through the glare from the oncoming lights. I recall once seeing a pedestrian walking along the side of the road whom I might well have never seen with the standard bulbs. Main beam is like turning on floodlights.
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At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?
So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?
Good LED bulbs make night driving safer, both for the driver and others. I put some of the expensive ClassicCarLED H4 bulbs https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v) into my HR-V and night driving is now a tolerable experience rather than being very challenging. I'll note, however, that my eyes are well past their best-before date.
The dipped lights provides two well-focussed pools of white light - one in front of the vehicle and the other on the nearside edge of the road and help me see through the glare from the oncoming lights. I recall once seeing a pedestrian walking along the side of the road whom I might well have never seen with the standard bulbs. Main beam is like turning on floodlights.
Those are my experiences as well, the LED bulbs make even higher output filament bulbs look like a glow-worm in a jam jar... they do give more light, but IMHO it is the quality of the light that is more important and shows things up better.
The main benefit for me, as you point out is the better light on nearside verge so that you have a point of reference when vehicles are approaching you with dazzling headlights.
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Look on the "bright" side - LED's are generally very reliable!
But I could possibly buy enough tungsten bulbs to last more than my lifetime for less than the cost of one LED assembly, just had a horrifying thought what if you ever needed more than one. ;D
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At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?
I anticipate someone will say “They’re brighter, therefore better”. Personally I disagree with the “arms race” that is putting more and brighter lights on the front of every new model. The standard lights on my Jazz are perfectly adequate - passengers have commented on how effective they are - without needing to be enhanced further. Having unnecessarily bright lights simply annoys or blinds other drivers, especially those SUV/crossover marques with high-mounted lights whose drivers don’t understand the concept of maintaining a safe following distance.
The preceding discussion suggests they are expensive, so there’s no cost saving, and you may even be paying a premium to have them.
Presumably they have a lower power consumption than standard bulbs, but is that significant enough to result in a benefit to the owner (maybe better mpg) ?
So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?
It's a thing of brightness.
Imho they are not adeguate considering the price of the car.
First there is only one lamp for dipped and high beam, when quite all other small cars have two lamps, one for dipped and another lamp for high beams.
Second, Jazz headlights lack in light distribution (good in front of the car, but bad in side parts) especially when high beams are on.
Third, when you switch between dipped and high beam, there is an short moment of darkness, when one filament is switching off and the other is switching on.
I come from a Renault with an impressive halogen system (lamp for dipped beam, lamp for high beam, lamp for curve light, fog lights) and the difference in performace is clear. H4 halogen headlights are the cheapest solution for a car, and they provide the lowest performance in brightness, light distribution and glare.
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On my Civic with separate dip and main headlight reflectors the Dip stay on when main is selected, making for a great spread of light from headlights. The LED H4 bulbs in my wifes Jazz have actually made her lights as good if not better than the Civic, and she is happy to use dipped beam in the daytime now that there is no inevitable 'wearing out' of a filament involved and also instead of drawing 10 amps the headlights draw about 3 amps now, what is not to like.
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Those are my experiences as well, the LED bulbs make even higher output filament bulbs look like a glow-worm in a jam jar... they do give more light, but IMHO it is the quality of the light that is more important and shows things up better.
The main benefit for me, as you point out is the better light on nearside verge so that you have a point of reference when vehicles are approaching you with dazzling headlights.
Thanks for indulging my query. I'm not convinced, I'm afraid. What I'm hearing here is that you perceive that the LEDs enable you to see better when confronted by bright lights of oncoming vehicles, therefore you feel safer. Sorry guys, but those comments just emphasise what I thought, ie that the LEDs are brighter and therefore make the driver of that car feel safer by enabling them to overpower other people's lights (I see the comment about "light quality" but I'm not really sure what you mean by that ... brightness/intensity ? ... frequency/colour ? ... focus ?). That's great for you, but not so good for other road users who have to deal with the very bright lights. As I said, I find the standard lights perfectly OK and I don't consider them unsafe in any way.
And as for lasers, the emphasis in that link is that the lasers are brighter therefore can see further. Great (not). Notice that the techie testing the lights has to wear eye protection because, well, they are lasers. It'll be really great to have some dork in a BMW SUV tailgating you with those things on at full chat. Sadly though it looks like it's going to happen.
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Those are my experiences as well, the LED bulbs make even higher output filament bulbs look like a glow-worm in a jam jar... they do give more light, but IMHO it is the quality of the light that is more important and shows things up better.
The main benefit for me, as you point out is the better light on nearside verge so that you have a point of reference when vehicles are approaching you with dazzling headlights.
Thanks for indulging my query. I'm not convinced, I'm afraid. What I'm hearing here is that you perceive that the LEDs enable you to see better when confronted by bright lights of oncoming vehicles, therefore you feel safer. Sorry guys, but those comments just emphasise what I thought, ie that the LEDs are brighter and therefore make the driver of that car feel safer by enabling them to overpower other people's lights (I see the comment about "light quality" but I'm not really sure what you mean by that ... brightness/intensity ? ... frequency/colour ? ... focus ?). That's great for you, but not so good for other road users who have to deal with the very bright lights. As I said, I find the standard lights perfectly OK and I don't consider them unsafe in any way.
And as for lasers, the emphasis in that link is that the lasers are brighter therefore can see further. Great (not). Notice that the techie testing the lights has to wear eye protection because, well, they are lasers. It'll be really great to have some dork in a BMW SUV tailgating you with those things on at full chat. Sadly though it looks like it's going to happen.
No.
The aim of a good headlight system is to produce a big amount of light (and this comes from high output sources as HID and LED), and to send the light to the right place, thanks to shields, mirrors and lenses).
I don't want to put hid or led bulbs inside an headlight built for halogen bulb, this will provide both light than glare; I would like my lights to be more powerful as to see better on both sides of the car an longer in front of me, but also to not disturb or blind other road users. Using proper techniques (clear lenses, shields, fresnel lenses, hidden emitters and reflectors) we can have this enhancement.
(http://www.koito.co.jp/english/global-image/units/img/579-1-20180301112517_b5a97648d9d90d.png)
So why not?
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Thanks for indulging my query. I'm not convinced, I'm afraid. What I'm hearing here is that you perceive that the LEDs enable you to see better when confronted by bright lights of oncoming vehicles, therefore you feel safer. Sorry guys, but those comments just emphasise what I thought, ie that the LEDs are brighter and therefore make the driver of that car feel safer by enabling them to overpower other people's lights (I see the comment about "light quality" but I'm not really sure what you mean by that ... brightness/intensity ? ... frequency/colour ? ... focus ?).
The light is whiter than any filament (6000K), but not blue like the truly annoying German staff car HID projectors (about 8000 to 9000K). I have seen things in or on the verge (including potholes) that I may well have missed with the standard Jazz lights. As I have said previously, the bulbs are equivalent to about an 80Watt filament, so not all that much more powerful than 65 watt standard, but quality of light is much more usable, we could all go back to carbide and acetylene lamps I suppose and drive around at the speed of a trotting horse..
As Jazzaro rightly says, standard Jazz lights are just about fit for purpose but only just IMHO, and we should have got better with a car of the Jazzes price range.
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Yep.
I still use halogen lamps, and I will not mount led bulbs on my headlight because I don't want to glare other road users.
Philips has made an h4 led bulb, the Ultinon H4 Led, but it is not legal in Europe with ECE regulations, but it's legal in Malysia, India and Japan so they can buy and use it...
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Yep.
I still use halogen lamps, and I will not mount led bulbs on my headlight because I don't want to glare other road users.
Philips has made an h4 led bulb, the Ultinon H4 Led, but it is not legal in Europe with ECE regulations, but it's legal in Malysia, India and Japan so they can buy and use it...
Legal in USA as well, Europe is slow to take up new technology as usual, maybe in UK we can get them made legal after 2019 when we have left the technological backwater..
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I have no complaints about the quality or quantity of light my standard headlights put out. Perfect for the night driving I do.
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One thing that's easier to do with an LED array is beam shaping. Audi have pioneered that. Their matrix headlights can shape a shadow around vehicles to avoid glare whilst avoiding the need to dip headlights. They are also developing laser lighting but not to actually light the way but to draw a line on the road behind the vehicle to remind idiots not to get so close.
The purchase and lifetime cost of LEDs should be lower eventually. They are probably as good as it gets when it comes to producing light. Very reliable and very efficient. Unfortunately I suspect that at the moment we're in the R&D payback phase of the product. Give it a few more years and the cost will drop.
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I have no complaints about the quality or quantity of light my standard headlights put out. Perfect for the night driving I do.
Have you recently driven a car with a really good light equipment?
My first car was a Fiat Uno with glass headlights (no clear lenses) and R2 40/45w bulb, not halogen. I had the same opinion, perfect headlights...
Then I drove other cars with better equipment, and I understood how my car was not so perfect.
Now it's the same, driving a car with better headlights it's easy to see the lack of brightness of our Jazz, obvious considering how this headlights are made.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/honda/fit-4-door-wagon
This is the IIHS rating about Jazz headlights... Ok, they use SAE/DOT regulations so their headlights are slightly different from our ones, but the problem here is the technology used, old and cheap.
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Legal in USA as well, Europe is slow to take up new technology as usual, maybe in UK we can get them made legal after 2019 when we have left the technological backwater..
Oh, no, I don't think so..
This kind of led lamps cannot be legal because of their geometry: halogen reflectors are made considering the position and thickness of the tungsten coils, and led lamps cannot replicate this two parameters; we will be allowed to use led lamps only when LED will replicate the geometry of an halogen one, and I think it's a good thing: we need better brightness, but also less glaring.
Anyway, ECE are the best regulations in the world concerning lighting car equipment: americans envy us our projectors because we have better light distribution, less glaring, more performance (adaptive matrix here are allowed); state of the art lighting technologies come from european and japanese brands (AL, Hella, OSRAM, Philips, Koito, Stanley), so I think (for headlights) you'd better to keep following european rules...
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Have you recently driven a car with a really good light equipment?
I find nothing wrong with the lights on my Jazz, they may not be the latest tech but they are perfectly adequate. I can’t recall ever being in a situation where I’ve thought “If only my lights were brighter”. If the standard lights are as bad as people are implying, Honda would be being lobbied by consumer organisations to improve them, and they’re not. So bright LEDs are not necessary, they are a personal preference. If someone chooses to pay more for that preference then that’s their choice (and is what I would consider a fashion choice). Personally, I do not want really bright LED arrays such as you see on some marques because I’ve been on the receiving end of those and I like to think I’m decent enough not to want to inflict that on other people.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/honda/fit-4-door-wagon
This is the IIHS rating about Jazz headlights... Ok, they use SAE/DOT regulations so their headlights are slightly different from our ones, but the problem here is the technology used, old and cheap.
Care is needed here. That test was not on a UK spec car, for example it didn’t have high-beam assist - fitted as standard to my Jazz - which they say would have improved the rating. What other differences were there ? It was (probably) a LHD car, so it’s not clear how comments about brightness on left and right side of the road would read across to UK geometry. Nor did they adjust the vertical alignment, despite Honda having provided a handy little wheel by the driver’s knee, and the handbook saying you should do this to compensate for different car loading: they just left it in whatever position it was in when the car was delivered, which may not have been the optimum.
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I have no complaints about the quality or quantity of light my standard headlights put out. Perfect for the night driving I do.
Have you recently driven a car with a really good light equipment?
Only a 67 plate Jazz SE.
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Legal in USA as well, Europe is slow to take up new technology as usual, maybe in UK we can get them made legal after 2019 when we have left the technological backwater..
Oh, no, I don't think so..
This kind of led lamps cannot be legal because of their geometry: halogen reflectors are made considering the position and thickness of the tungsten coils, and led lamps cannot replicate this two parameters; we will be allowed to use led lamps only when LED will replicate the geometry of an halogen one, and I think it's a good thing: we need better brightness, but also less glaring.
Anyway, ECE are the best regulations in the world concerning lighting car equipment: americans envy us our projectors because we have better light distribution, less glaring, more performance (adaptive matrix here are allowed); state of the art lighting technologies come from european and japanese brands (AL, Hella, OSRAM, Philips, Koito, Stanley), so I think (for headlights) you'd better to keep following european rules...
You obviously did not look at the bulbs in this link very well ( https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v John Ratsey post earlier in this thread ), in what way does that LED array not replicate the same size, shape and position in the reflector that a filament does - it even has the same shrouds under the dipped LED chips that you find in a filament bulb, also have a look at the beam photos I posted in an earlier thread https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8738.msg55907#msg55907 - There are some headlight revolution youtube tests of various LED bulbs, some I agree were absolute pants as far as light placement and beam pattern was concerned - but Philips Z-ES LED chips come out really well in all departments. Have a look at the photographs and diagrams (one has standard H4 filament and LED side by side and has dimensions)
The classicarleds bulbs are so well made you could be forgiven for thinking they were made by NASA for one of their space missions.
I was speaking with a guy on an American motorbike forum the other day and he confirmed LED are Department of Transport approved in USA.
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Better, (and illegal in the UK) headlights may be useful to the boy racers, geriatric or otherwise, who want to drive fast in the dark or are part of the modified car scene, but they mark you as a poser to be avoided by many other drivers. There is a traffic light controlled crossroads near me where the opposing road is slightly uphill towards the lights. I have been totally blinded while stopped at the red waiting to turn right by a Range Rover on dipped xenon discharge lights waiting on the slope.
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https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving/2018-03/modern-headlight-brightness-causing-safety-dangers/
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https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving/2018-03/modern-headlight-brightness-causing-safety-dangers/
'and LED headlights, which are said to produce a light more similar to daylight that's less likely to dazzle drivers, are also used.'
Some German staff car HID are over 9000K, which is very blue and dazzling as human eye is sensitive to blue, LED are in the 4500 to 6000K which is daylight colour and easy on the eye.
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I don't experience much of a problem with oncoming traffic - no different than it ever was. However for the last few years I've set my rear view mirror to anti dazzle at night and during the week in winter it stays that way all the time since I don't drive in daylight on my commute.
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I don't experience much of a problem with oncoming traffic - no different than it ever was. However for the last few years I've set my rear view mirror to anti dazzle at night and during the week in winter it stays that way all the time since I don't drive in daylight on my commute.
One of the great benefits of the rear window spoiler on the Civic is that it keeps 99% of following headlights out of your interior mirror, only time I have a problem is a 4x4 , SUV on my bumper in slow traffic, and that is because the headlights are higher than the spoiler.
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https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving/2018-03/modern-headlight-brightness-causing-safety-dangers/
HID bulbs are specifically mentioned but it's unclear to me whether aftermarket LED bulbs will also be an automatic failure. Does anyone have a reliable reference?
However, the auto mainbeam on my HR-V isn't clever enough so that's when my LED bulbs sometimes cause unwanted dazzling of others. Perhaps auto mainbeam is something that's something which the people writing the regulations need to look at.
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However, the auto mainbeam on my HR-V isn't clever enough so that's when my LED bulbs sometimes cause unwanted dazzling of others. Perhaps auto mainbeam is something that's something which the people writing the regulations need to look at.
How do you know it's dazzling them, though? Just because you are on main beam while a car is in front of you doesn't mean you are dazzling the driver. Headlights have a very specific pattern and if the drivers eyes do not lie within the primary area they will not be being dazzled. In the same way that I can illuminate your face with an electric torch but not dazzle you by pointing it to one side.
The only reason human drivers need to dip their lights as soon as another car comes into view is because we aren't quick enough and/or don't know enough about the shape of our lights to determine when the driver will enter the primary beam. A correctly programmed computer with a camera can determine when a vehicle is likely to be dazzled and doesn't need to dip the headlights until it's actually about to happen.
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Hi
Sorry maybe it’s just me, but bright lights are attractive to eyes. My eyes automatically look at bright lights momentarily and then it’s a black spot after
No computer can stop this and that is why when I learned to drive, it was frowned upon to not dip headlights when approaching traffic was near and not when the traffic was directly in front of you
I enjoyed night time driving better then day time until people stopped dipping headlights upon approaching vehicles and been dazzled.
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I do have to say though, it tends to be big 4x4 and German cars
It is annoying and lights should not be left to computers
Many thanks
John
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However, the auto mainbeam on my HR-V isn't clever enough so that's when my LED bulbs sometimes cause unwanted dazzling of others. Perhaps auto mainbeam is something that's something which the people writing the regulations need to look at.
How do you know it's dazzling them, though? Just because you are on main beam while a car is in front of you doesn't mean you are dazzling the driver. Headlights have a very specific pattern and if the drivers eyes do not lie within the primary area they will not be being dazzled. In the same way that I can illuminate your face with an electric torch but not dazzle you by pointing it to one side.
The only reason human drivers need to dip their lights as soon as another car comes into view is because we aren't quick enough and/or don't know enough about the shape of our lights to determine when the driver will enter the primary beam. A correctly programmed computer with a camera can determine when a vehicle is likely to be dazzled and doesn't need to dip the headlights until it's actually about to happen.
The fallacy with this sort of argument is that it doesn’t reflect what really happens out on the road. It’s probably possible to set up some terribly clever beam shaping in a workshop, but when a car is actually moving, bouncing around and pitching, the bright lights that have been carefully set up beforehand will periodically and repeatedly shine in the wrong place. Nor does it work when the car has high-set lights (eg 4x4s) and is being driven close behind you.
Apart from anything else, it’s just plain rude to shine really bright lights at someone when you don’t need to. However, on the plus side, it does provide a useful warning that there’s a prat driving that car (can’t always see the BMW/Audi badge at night).
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How do you know it's dazzling them, though? Just because you are on main beam while a car is in front of you doesn't mean you are dazzling the driver. Headlights have a very specific pattern and if the drivers eyes do not lie within the primary area they will not be being dazzled. In the same way that I can illuminate your face with an electric torch but not dazzle you by pointing it to one side.
Two examples:
1. I can see the light from an approaching vehicle coming round a corner whereas the auto mainbeam waits to see the headlights before responding.
2. The auto mainbeam doesn't see a vehicle side on at a junction because it can't see the lights so will happily stay on main beam.
Maybe the next generation of technology will be able to handle these aspects better. It's a bit like the auto headlights except the consequences of when it doesn't work properly are more serious.
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Amazing all these automatic gizmos on your car these days, I don't know how we coped when we had to put our own lights on and select dipped beam now and again. We even had to select the wipers to on when it was raining.
Now we have got all these driving aids it means we can spend much more time sending text messages and making phone calls !
Vic.
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It appears the whole question has been referred back to the United Nations. Yes, I was surprised when this was stated by a RAC representative on the box. LED lights are becoming a nuisance due to the 'blue light' which the human eye has a problem with.
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How do you know it's dazzling them, though? Just because you are on main beam while a car is in front of you doesn't mean you are dazzling the driver. Headlights have a very specific pattern and if the drivers eyes do not lie within the primary area they will not be being dazzled. In the same way that I can illuminate your face with an electric torch but not dazzle you by pointing it to one side.
Two examples:
1. I can see the light from an approaching vehicle coming round a corner whereas the auto mainbeam waits to see the headlights before responding.
If the vehicle is around a corner its driver can't be dazzled by your lights.
2. The auto mainbeam doesn't see a vehicle side on at a junction because it can't see the lights so will happily stay on main beam.
The same argument applies. And my Jazz dips its headlights when vehicles are waiting at a junction - maybe you should get your dealer to look at yours.
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Amazing all these automatic gizmos on your car these days, I don't know how we coped when we had to put our own lights on and select dipped beam now and again. We even had to select the wipers to on when it was raining.
Now we have got all these driving aids it means we can spend much more time sending text messages and making phone calls !
Maybe we will. There was a time when people had to adjust fuel mixture and revs manually when the engine was cold. There was a time when people had to adjust the air/fuel mixture manually when accelerating. There was a time when people had to use a lever to operate windscreen wipers. There was even a time (amazing) when people actually had to select their own gear ratios.
Those times are gone. It's called progress. Auto dip is here and the vast majority of the time it works just fine.
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It's called progress. Auto dip is here and the vast majority of the time it works just fine.
In a car without auto dip the driver would occasionally be a bit slow dipping their head lights or putting it another way, 'the vast majority of the time it works just fine'. Progress?
In my car the auto wipers work very well, the vast majority of the time. The auto headlights are not very good as they do not come on under certain conditions when I would choose to put them on such as some rainy conditions or falling snow. Progress?
Under certain conditions auto headlights can momentarily flash headlights. This might lead oncoming drivers think you were giving them right of way. Progress?
The distracting 'infotainment system' made by Honda is progress?
So I'm a Luddite, maybe so but when all these progressive modifications in a car work without hazard to other road users then I'll change my mind.
Vic.
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There was a time when people had to use a lever to operate windscreen wipers. There was even a time (amazing) when people actually had to select their own gear ratios.
Those times are gone. It's called progress.
I'm all for progress if it works properly but it seems that we are being subjected to what are potential improvements still in need of final debugging and refinement. Progress meant that my Mk 2 Jazz had auto wipers which a very rarely had to fiddle with. Further progress meant that the auto wipers on the Mk 3 Jazz (when I had it) and my current HR-V are so erratic that I have returned to manual control.
Maybe the auto main beam can see a car sideways on at an urban junction with streetlights but not if there is no street lighting or maybe it can't recognise a dark coloured vehicle. Consequently it works most of the time but is most annoying when it doesn't because the blinded driver is probably cursing me for not dipping the lights. However, I accept that there is a short delay between headlights coming round a bend and the driver's eyeballs getting into view so the auto headlights should have have time to react.
Anyway, we are getting off-topic. Has anyone got a definitive reference to confirm that aftermarket LED headlights are an MoT failure or are the new rules currently only gunning for HID bulbs?
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It appears the whole question has been referred back to the United Nations. Yes, I was surprised when this was stated by a RAC representative on the box. LED lights are becoming a nuisance due to the 'blue light' which the human eye has a problem with.
There is a lot more blue light from a lot of HID (even OEM fitted HID, in fact the more expensive the vehicle the bluer and more dazzling they seem to be ) because it is an electric arc and colour temperature in excess of 9000K and blue light at night is very distracting because the human eye is very sensitive to it (note how even a dim blue light catches your eye at night, and it is why emergency services use blue to get your attention). Most LED headlight bulbs are in the region of 4500 to 6000K, which is daylight. My LED bulbs are great at picking things out rather than being ultra-bright because the colour balance is just right for the human eye.
http://bestheadlightbulbs.com/best-hid-color-headlight-color-guide/
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http://bestheadlightbulbs.com/best-hid-color-headlight-color-guide/
The reference to yellow fog lights is interesting. The sky is blue in broad daylight because short wavelength (blue) light is more easily scattered than longer wavelengths nearer the red end of the spectrum. Hence an orange/red sky around a setting sun. So yellow fog lights make sense for not being scattered so easily.
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My new Jazz CVT came with led lights and they are excellent, much better than the Osram H4 Super Lights in my previous car. The 'quality' of the light seems much better and I can certainly see well in unlit lanes around here but have not been 'flashed' by oncoming cars so perhaps are not causing others any problems. The main beam adds to the dipped beam and automatically dips if the ambient light is high enough not to need them and if there are any on coming lights, it responds faster than I can! A definite improvement but I will hate ever having to pay to replace one!
I'm not sure but think it is only legal to have leds in a light unit designed for them, they would be a compromise and possibly glare too. I would however add a high level led brake unit to an older car without one.
The UK may be slow in adopting new tech but Northern Ireland is slower! Britain ratified the 250W EU electric bike exemption 20 years ago but they are still illegal here in NI :'(
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My new Jazz CVT came with led lights and they are excellent, much better than the Osram H4 Super Lights in my previous car. The 'quality' of the light seems much better and I can certainly see well in unlit lanes around here but have not been 'flashed' by oncoming cars so perhaps are not causing others any problems.
That is what I said about the aftermarket Phillip ZES chip H4 I fitted to wifes Jazz GE, they are not much brighter than standard 55/60 watt filament bulbs (especially the 150% brighter ones which, if claims are true pump out 85/90watts :o ) Philips LED are are rated at 80/80watt equivalent - but the 'quality' of the light (being nearer to natural daylight colour) is so much better at illuminating the road, cats eyes and signs etc.
Neither myself or my wife has been flashed while driving on dip, and can tell by beam pattern of garage door and the rear of cars in front that the beam pattern and alignment is good.
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The reference to yellow fog lights is interesting. The sky is blue in broad daylight because short wavelength (blue) light is more easily scattered than longer wavelengths nearer the red end of the spectrum. Hence an orange/red sky around a setting sun. So yellow fog lights make sense for not being scattered so easily.
Years ago when foglights were add on extras they were about six inches wide, often oblong in shape to provide a flat beam and the bulbs provided yellow light. They worked too.
Vic.
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The reference to yellow fog lights is interesting. The sky is blue in broad daylight because short wavelength (blue) light is more easily scattered than longer wavelengths nearer the red end of the spectrum. Hence an orange/red sky around a setting sun. So yellow fog lights make sense for not being scattered so easily.
Years ago when foglights were add on extras they were about six inches wide, often oblong in shape to provide a flat beam and the bulbs provided yellow light. They worked too.
Vic.
Yes, they worked in 'smog' which had the consistency of thick porridge and made your face black if you were walking or on a motorbike. Don't really need foglights in the light mist that is called fog these days, these days motorway spray can be much worse than fog, especially in the dark.