Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: JackH on July 07, 2017, 06:38:39 AM
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Good morning all.
In addition to two phase two GD models, we now have a phase one GE 1.4 EX in the family.
We've never really found the ride a problem in the GDs despite all the bad press this got but are really struggling with how harsh it is in the GE at its worst and given the main route it needs to cover on a daily basis involves a fair amount of bumpy country lanes, we're now at the point of considering getting rid of it.
However, we otherwise love the car and will persevere with it if we can find a way to make improvements so have a few questions we hope some of you can help with:
1. Wheels: Would switching to 15" wheels make any notable difference?
2. Tyres: Is there any particular tyre known to improve the ride?
3. Tyre Pressures: Has anyone experimented with these?
We've also read that the ride in the phase two GE models is improved. Is it that much better? If so, does anyone know if the improvement is just down to the springs and shocks? If it is, are these a straight swap for the existing units or are there other changes which mean they're incompatible? Is there anything else like bushes / strut tops which have been improved and make all the difference?
As above we're at the point of considering getting rid if the car if we can't make any improvements, for the dogs sake if nothing else. :D
Finally, if the phase two isn't that much of an improvement, can anyone recommend anything other than another GD which would offer the same kind of economy, reliability and practicality as a Jazz?
TIA for any advice given.
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Welcome. Tyre pressures will make a ride hard if the tyres are over-pressure. I run mine at 32 psig front and rear.
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Changing to 15" wheels will definitely improve the ride. I've just changed my tyres to Toyo Nano energy 3, which are supposed to be geared towards comfort and a quiet ride. They're definitely quieter, I'm not sure about more comfortable though.
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Welcome. Tyre pressures will make a ride hard if the tyres are over-pressure. I run mine at 32 psig front and rear.
Thank you. :)
We're running 32 all round on ours as we speak. May try dropping the rears to 30 but can't see it making that much difference unfortunately.
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Changing to 15" wheels will definitely improve the ride. I've just changed my tyres to Toyo Nano energy 3, which are supposed to be geared towards comfort and a quiet ride. They're definitely quieter, I'm not sure about more comfortable though.
Do you know of anyone who's done the switch to 15s and can comment on how much diffference it made?
We don't mind a bit of bumpiness but it's way too harsh as we speak.
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The profile of the tyres can make a big difference too. A fairly large chunk of your suspension movement is down to the tyres flexing. Low profile tyres have very little flex and can be very hard. I had a car running on 205/45 and when I changed the wheels and went for 155/65 the improvement in comfort went from night to day.
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Having taken the winter 175/65 R15 tyres and steel wheels off my wifes 1.4 Si GE a couple of months ago and felt (once again) how harsh the ride becomes when I put summer 185/55 R16 back on I was tempted to put the winters back on for the whole year. Not only are the Nokian winters a lot more comfortable they are also much quieter than the Bridgestone summers.
Not only will narrower higher profile tyres give you an easier ride they will also give the suspension an easier time by soaking up a lot of the worst that todays roads have in store.
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I'm currently running with tyre pressures at 28psi, only a marginal improvement.
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The problems with lowering the tyre pressures is it can lead to increased tyre wear on the outside edges of the tread and it reduces the mpg you get. The Hypermilers run at the maximum the tyre will stand, damn the wear and the comfort, as long as the get better mpg. Not my choice though.
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There has been some agreement that the Michelin Green tyres are an improvement.Certainly replacing Pirellis made a considerable difference. I believe that another tyre manufacturer has entered the 16 inch market. It has been mentioned recently. As to whether comfort has been reported on I can't remember. Just a thought, depending on how big your hound is, could a foam pad help. Dogs are remarkable resilient and adaptable.
We to live in a country area where the roads are diabolical.One thing that has impressed me is the durability of the Jazz under carriage even after an argument with a large hole and the subsequent retracking, the MOT reported all fine underneath. After 30 mths ownership, we are conditioned to the harsh ride which on a half ways decent surface is fine,
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I find it funny Honda have managed to pull a rabbit out of a hat with the ride and handling of the Jazz. Usually the trade off for a hard ride is improved cornering, but no, the jazz is not only bumpy but somehow feels like it will tip over around corners too!
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I find it funny Honda have managed to pull a rabbit out of a hat with the ride and handling of the Jazz. Usually the trade off for a hard ride is improved cornering, but no, the jazz is not only bumpy but somehow feels like it will tip over around corners too!
;D
I prefer GD ride and chassis wise if I'm honest. A shame they didn't offer it here with a bit more poke otherwise I might have been tempted to stick with one of those.
The GE has more bells and whistles but they seem to have cut a few corners build wise.
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Can't agree with Pumpkins comments regarding cornering on the EX, yes, mine is a hard ride, but it goes round corners like it's on rails!
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I have to agree with Kenneve, it can be disconcerting the fact that it does remain so upright. I to have an EX but looking at the specification VSA was fitted to all from 2010'. When we first had the Jazz I experienced the VSA kicking in. We used to have a Rover V6 which on bends needed some effort to maintain ones line. First time I came to a piece of the A30 which has an adverse camber on a long uphill sweeping bend, in the Jazz and not used to the lightness of the steering, the car let me know I was using too much to make the bend. A very slight feeling of the car trying to straighten up. Hasn't happened again as I did at least learn.
I am not trying to justify Hondas suspension on the Jazz but having read up on the VSA, Traction control and ABS all working togather, my only concern is if the flipping piece of kit under the bonnet goes wrong. The system seems to be quite clever.If it saves a few cases of accidents through oversteer/ understeer then it has proved itself. But then I am a moany old git.
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Can't agree with Pumpkins comments regarding cornering on the EX, yes, mine is a hard ride, but it goes round corners like it's on rails!
+1
never had the feeling a Jazz is gonna 'tip-over'
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Was a passenger in a Fiat 500L Trekking a while back, awful. *
45 profile tyres on 17" wheels with suspension made of blancmange to compensate, should have gone with 16" max.
Our family fleet Jag XF has tyres like balloons but is so comfortable; I vetoed the wheel 'upgrade'.
--
TG
* Except for the nice large opening glass roof.
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Have you tried another vehicle over the same route as you take/commute?
As noted by forum members changing to Honda Jazz 15"" wheels will help as would tyres with more rubber ie 60 or 65 profile.
Take a look at mytyres.co.uk for steel wheels all weather combo for you Jazz
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I felt as if our 2012 EX also was going to fall over going around some corners. Slowing down might have helped,
But where's the fun in that.
Honda updated the suspension on the "SI" model, changed camber and caster angles, fitted a thicker anti roll bar,
And lowered the suspension.
So any of those mods would be a good place to start, if you want to go around corners.
I started with updating the shock absorbers Bilsteins all round, followed by a rear anti roll bar. Both work...
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I felt as if our 2012 EX also was going to fall over going around some corners. Slowing down might have helped,
But where's the fun in that.
Very few cars (except out and out hot hatches or sports cars) corner flatter than a Jazz, simply because Jazz suspension has limited movement. The rear already has an anti-roll bar - it is called 'torsion beam suspension'.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=AntiRoll-Bars-and-Torsion-Beam-Rear-Suspensions-Part-1&A=113301 (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=AntiRoll-Bars-and-Torsion-Beam-Rear-Suspensions-Part-1&A=113301)
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I regularly come off the M9 near here, on a left hand gyratory that is very tight. I love to come round it as fast as possible (much to the disgust of my spouse) and the car sits flat on the road until the tyres start to squeak. What I love is the fact that there is always someone who wants to overtake the old man in his Jazz, doing 50 on the motorway, forgetting that as you start to go round the tight bend you have to go at least 70 in lane 2, right up against the Armco, just to keep up! I have seen off 4x4 Audi's, sports cars, bikes and the like.
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I felt as if our 2012 EX also was going to fall over going around some corners.
I had the same experience when I first got the car. I modified my driving style rather than the car.
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It seems to me that the ride of any car is largely controlled by the shock absorbers, take them off and it will wallow around like a boat on the high seas. So, do all models of the Jazz have the same spec shocks.
Maybe an after-market supplier could offer an alternative shock, with less resistance in compression, which I imagine would give a softer ride, maybe at the expense of a bit more rebound.
Having said that, I suppose such modifications would run foul of the Construction & Use regulations.
Does anyone have any similar thoughts?
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I find the ride much better with some weight in the back. I don't know much about springs so I don't know the correct technical description, but maybe they would benefit from less rebound or something? I feel like they should be a bit softer initially so that an empty car wasn't so jittery. Like I say the car glides along with some compression on the springs.
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I think you will find that Euro spares have two part numbers for the Jazz front springs.
Just depends on the year !!!!
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I find the ride much better with some weight in the back.
I suspect the car was designed to have a full size spare wheel in the hole provided at the back.
The ride improved significantly to rather good once I added a full size steel spare wheel.... to be recommended....or a bag of gravel?.
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Culzean you obviously have never tried following a modern Corsa, or Fiesta, on a nice twisty bendy "B" road.
Because you would never keep up. Nothing to do with the speed, just the much improved handling chassis that they have, and the Jazz doesn't have.
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Culzean you obviously have never tried following a modern Corsa, or Fiesta, on a nice twisty bendy "B" road.
Because you would never keep up. Nothing to do with the speed, just the much improved handling chassis that they have, and the Jazz doesn't have.
Well why don't you get a Fiesta or Corsa then, the extra exercise of either pushing them or walking everywhere when they break down will do you the world of good.
I rather race Fiesta and Corsa on my motorbike if nothing better around, but no fun at all really as I keep losing them in my mirrors as they are too far behind - sometimes if I am in a playful mood I will let them catch up a bit before changing down a gear and leaving them for dead again LOL
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Got my first bike in 1959, an Excelsior 98 cc. Ridden all types every where, fell off often. Modern tyres grip now
But at my age the comfort of a heater, during the winter months beats all.
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Got my first bike in 1959, an Excelsior 98 cc. Ridden all types every where, fell off often. Modern tyres grip now
But at my age the comfort of a heater, during the winter months beats all.
Only use motorbike on dry days, otherwise its the Civic (or her indoors Jazz)
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I have never ever fallen off, though I have scared myself witless on a few occasions! It is very easy to do that on a bike, especially in my younger days. Several years since I was last on a bike. Used to use bike all year round. Sun, rain, sleet and snow. About 20K miles a year, in my heyday. Fell off my bicycle a couple of years back !!!
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Following ZZAJ's comment about extra weight in the back, I have added the steel spare wheel, that I had lying in the garage, together with a quite heavy toolbox and I have to say, the ride is significantly better.
So far I have not noticed any real difference in fuel consumption, maybe 1 or 2 mpg, which I am prepared to accept in the interest of a smoother ride.
Have driven from Solihull to Stratford on Avon, along the A3400, (50mph max limit) this afternoon and recorded 62.4 mpg going out and 58.9 on return, both indicated figures, ( well, it is downhill to the river) which is really no different to running without the extra load, so for the moment the load will stay.
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I recently carried a passenger in the front of the car on several occasions and it resulted in a significant improvement in the ride. Both passengers commented on how smooth and comfortable it was (to my surprise). Stability also seemed to improved making country roads fun to drive along. Smooth surfaces are never a problem without passengers but seams and pot holes are an issue as they thump and echo through the cabin...boink, boink, boink !, presumably because the car is so lightweight and the chassis is now stiffer than they used to be. My previous Corolla had a more cosseted ride on poor surfaces but stability and body roll felt less confident than the Jazz.
The benefit of low weight may be good economy (average 54 mpg since new). At 5000 miles the car may also just about be run-in ?
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Have you tried another vehicle over the same route as you take/commute?
As noted by forum members changing to Honda Jazz 15"" wheels will help as would tyres with more rubber ie 60 or 65 profile.
Take a look at mytyres.co.uk for steel wheels all weather combo for you Jazz
Yes we have covered the route in a GD Jazz regularly. Since I last posted I've dropped the rear tyre pressures down to 30psi from 32 and it's surprising how much difference it's made.
Still not as comfy as the GD is ride wise but much more bearable. I nearly bought a set of 15s to try on it recently but might not bother now.
Would still like to know what the mythical changes made to the phase two GE that supposedly improve both ride and handling were - someone has posted about Si spec elsewhere in this thread but that all sounds like something that'll result in a stiffer ride rather a more supple one.
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I can't compare the ride with our GG Jazz with other or earlier models. And i won't lie that after 15+ years an overly comfy (the ride) French car it was a little getting used to with the Jazz. ;) But when i drove an exact same French car a few months ago after 20 months, i was glad i could step in our Jazz again. It is really comfy to be honest — ours: Michelin green ES 175/65 R15 at 2.2 bar rear and 2.3 bar front (33, 34 psi), a space saver in the boot and a 20 kg dog crate in the middle.
I am not sure about wear and tear at 30psi, but it seems to low to me and will cost you tyres. I think i would go to 15" wheels...
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Hi
This is our first Honda, jazz si so I cannot compare to other jazz models, but the ride is excellent. The only real thing more noticeable is road noise to other cars I have driven. However, it is not over powering and is more likely due to road surfaces at the time
I do have to say, the car feels very stable, does not roll too much when cornering and is a pleasure to drive (manual 5 speed). The longest single trip completed was 560miles in a day and the cruise control /air con is a blessing.
I am not a mechanic and our car is standard.
I hope that helps
Many thanks
John
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The only real thing more noticeable is road noise to other cars I have driven. However, it is not over powering and is more likely due to road surfaces at the time
I do have to say, the car feels very stable, does not roll too much when cornering and is a pleasure to drive
Road noise can easily be improved by choice of tyres (decibel rating is specified of tyres these days, and although it refers to noise heard by people outside the car, it has a correlation to noise heard inside the car), that is why when Jazz gets tested the only thing most journalists could comment on negatively was road noise - why don't Honda specify quieter tyres as OEM
Duuuhhhh !
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Hi culzean
Many thanks. Sorry I did not know and the si is still currently on its original tyres.
The noise is acceptable but may try different tyres as you say.
I usually like to keep same as factory fit on cars, due to not been a mechanic and a believe that Honda would have tested all aspects, and specified correct parts. Probably totally wrong thinking, which is why I will keep the 185 tyres and not move to 175.
Many thanks
John
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Hi culzean
Many thanks. Sorry I did not know and the si is still currently on its original tyres.
The noise is acceptable but may try different tyres as you say.
I usually like to keep same as factory fit on cars, due to not been a mechanic and a believe that Honda would have tested all aspects, and specified correct parts. Probably totally wrong thinking, which is why I will keep the 185 tyres and not move to 175.
Many thanks
John
My wife's GE Si has a better, quieter ride on the 175/65R15 Nokian WR-D3 winter tyres than the Bridgestone summer tyres. Also on mytyres.co.uk it is almost as cheap to buy new 175/65R15 of a decent quality fitted to new alloys than to pay full price for the hard to find 185/55R16 that the car comes with (and you will save quite a bit of money on your next set of 175/65 compared with 185/55 and have a lot more choice), and ride will undoubtedly improve and be quieter with 175 tyres. I am tempted to leave winters on all year, as they have already gone through 2 x 6 month winters on the car and showing little sign of wear.
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My GD has Firestone Multihawk 2 tyres which are rated 8/10 for noise. I have 175/65T14 tyres on steel wheels and I have no concerns about road noise at all. Even coming from the Volvo S40 I didn't find an unpleasant increase in road noise. In fact, if I turn my hearing aid right down they are whisper quiet (JOKE).
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My friend has a 2014 Jazz (she does not know the spec. facelift mk2) with 16 inch alloy wheels fitted with Dunlop SP sport 2030 tyres.
I have a 2016 mk3 jazz ex navi with 16 inch alloy wheels fitted with bridgestone turanza er370 tyres.
Both sets of tyres are 185/55R16 83H.
We both agree the ride is more comfortable in her car than mine with two people onboard.
The ride on my car is very hard but improves greatly when fully loaded.
FredS
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I suppose that the lighter the car the more the effect of occupants will have on the ride. Two adults in a Jazz will have more of an effect than two adults in a Humvee.
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I suppose that the lighter the car the more the effect of occupants will have on the ride. Two adults in a Jazz will have more of an effect than two adults in a Humvee.
Spot on - The trouble with a light car is it is hard to get plush suspension as 5 adults and a full boot can add over 40% to weight of car LOL
Normally you get better suspension in a heavier car but you pay for it in increased fuel costs lugging the weight around every journey.
Maybe do away with springs and use air suspension with variable pressure for different car loading - but then probably higher maintenance costs.
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I suppose what car you come from will effect your perception. We traded from a VW Polo, which we'd always rated as good, to the Jazz EX and they are lightyears apart. The Jazz is like a mini-limo. Quiet inside, very little to no wind or road noise and a superb ride. Makes the Polo seem like a tractor now.
After 4 years of ownership we traded up from a 2008 to 2012 EX, identical in every way (other than amber minor instrumentation - horrible) and fell in love with the Jazz all over again.
Such brilliant use of space. Every three weeks I run a slot car club and was contiually tailoring what I took to fit in the Polo. With the Jazz there was so much more space it took several meetings to find the best way to pack stuff without if floating around loose!
Ride? Full or empty it knocks anything else we've had into a cocked hat. I guess we're lucky in our perceptions 8)
Oh - and the engine's so quiet I used to try and start an already running car. Now if the ignitions on I tap the throttle to see if the revs rise, or even switch off and go through the start procedure again to avoid embarrassment.
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I suppose what car you come from will effect your perception. We traded from a VW Polo, which we'd always rated as good, to the Jazz EX and they are lightyears apart. The Jazz is like a mini-limo. Quiet inside, very little to no wind or road noise and a superb ride. Makes the Polo seem like a tractor now.
After 4 years of ownership we traded up from a 2008 to 2012 EX, identical in every way (other than amber minor instrumentation - horrible) and fell in love with the Jazz all over again.
Such brilliant use of space. Every three weeks I run a slot car club and was contiually tailoring what I took to fit in the Polo. With the Jazz there was so much more space it took several meetings to find the best way to pack stuff without if floating around loose!
Ride? Full or empty it knocks anything else we've had into a cocked hat. I guess we're lucky in our perceptions 8)
Oh - and the engine's so quiet I used to try and start an already running car. Now if the ignitions on I tap the throttle to see if the revs rise, or even switch off and go through the start procedure again to avoid embarrassment.
That is a problem with us humans, whatever you give us we are always looking for something better instead of just being grateful they don't have to walk everywhere. Our expectations more than keep pace with technology.
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I don't agree with the noise levels, not at highway speeds anyway, it gets really noisy because no 6th gear, that aside it's ok though.
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Culzean you obviously have never tried following a modern Corsa, or Fiesta, on a nice twisty bendy "B" road.
Because you would never keep up. Nothing to do with the speed, just the much improved handling chassis that they have, and the Jazz doesn't have.
I was able to drive a 59 plate Corsa 1.0 and a 10 plate Jazz 1.2 SE a few weeks apart. The Corsa felt numb to drive, steering not as sharp and the Jazz cornered better too. Corsa had a softer ride and the steering was better weighted at lower speeds, you were more aware of the front wheels doing something, but it felt too light away from the urban confines. It would interesting to note how much of this difference was down to tyre choices, this Jazz sat on 15's and the Corsa probably had 14's with chubby sidewalls like balloons.
I won't be mean and compare a 59bhp three cylinder with a 88bhp four cylinder engine... :P