Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Hybrid Mk2 2011-2015 => Topic started by: Ozzie on August 14, 2014, 08:19:51 PM
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Last night as I stopped at the petrol station, I accidentally left the headlights on, I thought they were on auto, but they weren't. Never mind I will only be 5 minutes, so I fuel up and go and pay. Upon returning to the car, it hesitated in starting and it appeared that the battery was dead, turn the key nothing. So I took the key out, unlocked the car again (already open) and it started.
Today it did a similar think with the sat nav charger powering up the sat nav.
So I am thinking if there is any drain on the battery, the car won't start. If you remove the additional drain, its fine . . . weird !
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as your car is 3 years old and as a driving instructor car has a life similar to a taxi (stop start and high mileage) I would suspect battery is on the way out.
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It started fine later on today, and hasn't been a problem when there wasn't a drain, and has only started playing up in the past 24 hours. I guess it will be back in for a service in a month or two I will mention it then if it hasn't come to a natural conclusion before. Meanwhile I guess it will either get better or a lot worse ;)
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It might also be a deteriorating electrical connection to the battery which is starting to struggle to pass enough current for both the starter motor and anything else.
Either the connections or declining battery health can't be completely unexpected for the amount of usage the car has had. As discussed in your MoT thread, the basic power train seems healthy and good for a lot more miles but it's all the other bits that may be starting to succumb to all the hours of usage that the car has had.
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. . . . and it gets even weirder ! !
Yesterday morning I booked the car in to the local dealer for Friday (my next day off). Since then it has been fine, started first time, some 20 odd consecutive times.
So the next quandry do I still take it on Friday or cancel ????
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It sounds like 'dentist syndrome'. My teeth always behave well if threatened with a dentist!
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and again . . . .
Tonight I refuelled again at my local petrol station, and again I thought i will leave my lights on whilst I go and pay . . . . and again it refused to start initially, turn the lights off, wait 10 seconds and it starts.
Thats it I am convinced theres nothing wrong, I will cancel the garage appointment, Happy Days :D :D :D
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It played up again this weekend, so I am thinking its possibly the immobiliser, so I tried my spare key fob today and it was fine, so I have invested in a new battery for the key fob, lets give it another week or I will book it back in.
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An interesting hypothesis and not something I would have thought of. However, I presume that your key gets much more use than most. You could check the voltage on the key fob battery if is hasn't already gone for recycling to see if is well down from the nominal (3?) voltage.
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Its weird, as its only the first start-up of the day that is normally a problem unless there is an additional electrical drain.
Summer is peak season for driving instructors, so I am delaying having a day off to get it investigated. Also I am trying to get more information to minimise investigation costs, as Honda doubt that a fault code will have been put on the onboard computer.
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One week on and everything seems OK, so I am thinking it was the battery in the key fob, a nice £6.88 fix :)
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the key should start the car with no battery in it, the battery is for opening the doors so it is a bit strange
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I left all my lights on at my last fill-up, they thought I was odd as it was mid-day, but I could not replicate your issue. Started up no problem.
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My theory was that the battery in the key fob was weak, and although the signal was enough to open the doors, there was not enough to turn the immobiliser off. (Just a guess). Upon turning the key, there was nothing. Then it would suddenly start as if nothing was wrong.
Since changing the key fob battery it has been fine, so I am still not 100% certain that its fixed, but its definitely better.
I will try the lights on at refuel again and see if it still does it.
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I think you'll find the battery has nothing to do with the immobiliser otherwise we would all be changing our batteries.
Mine is still the original from new, over seven years and no problems unlocking/starting etc
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Fair enough, so please enlighten me as to how it works out . . . .
1. The car regularly was dead first thing in the morning, however locking and unlocking the car again seems to allow it to start.
2. When it didn't start, rather than lock and unlock, I tried the spare (unused) key, the car started first time.
3. Since changing the battery in the key fob, the car has started first time each time.
The only remaining issue is the lights on at refueling. I am now wondering if thats because I have the trip meter resting on trip A at refuelling.
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From what your saying it sounds like one of the keys is not being recognised by the immobilizer.
And therefore not starting the engine.
Also immobilizers these days have rolling codes so if you keep pressing the unlock/lock buttons several times the key will have a different code to the immobilizer.
So in other words unlock the car pressing the button once only so has to keep the same code.
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On average I must use the fob to lock and unlock the car 10x for every once I use the key to start it, so cannot understand how they can get out of synch.
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If you say unlock the car and then press the unlock button a couple of times even though the car is unlocked and then go to start the car it may not start as the key and immobilizer can go out of sync.
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OK the latest twist, on the last lesson of the day, pupils stops the car outside his house. We sit there arranging the next weeks lessons, sorting out payment etc, so we are sat there maybe 5 minutes, with the lights on. When we are finished he goes home, and I jump in the drivers side, turn the key, nothing !
So I keep the key turned, and the dashboard lights flicker, but no turning of the engine.
Lock the doors, unlock the doors, go to restart . . . nothing (now I am starting to worry).
Turn lights off, lock the doors, unlock the doors, it starts as normal.
At least I can recreate it now. I will try it again tomorrow, when I am not 60 miles from home :)
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I wonder whether either the battery is getting tired or there's a bad connection to the battery. Your car may not be very old but it's had more use than many get in their lifetime.
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LATEST UPDATE
Two days ago, the car refused to start after a Sunday pub lunch, it was getting to the point of frustration, so Monday morning I booked it in for a check-up for today (Tuesday).
This morning I thought I would try to recreate the non-starting, just in case it helped the diagnosis. So I left the lights on for 3 minutes, and tried to start it, dead as a dodo. Nothing, nowt, zilch. So now I am convinced its a battery problem, after a jump start, I took it straight to the Honda dealers.
They checked it over, ran a battery and alternator check, and said its only 10.3 volts from the battery, so probably a dead battery cell, new battery required, £96. So half an hour later, with a new battery installed and £96 lighter, I asked if Honda will cover it under the now expired warranty. I was told "No chance".
So I get back home, and phone Honda UK Customer Services, and voice my plea that the mileage part of the warranty is exceeded, I appreciate that, and the age part is also exceeded, but is a battery really mileage dependent? Surely a car used frequently is kinder to a battery, than a car that sits for ages unused, and is 3 years and a month the expected lifespan of a battery?? They took my details and will get back to me in a few days, if you don't ask you don't get. ;D ;D ;D
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as your car is 3 years old and as a driving instructor car has a life similar to a taxi (stop start and high mileage) I would suspect battery is on the way out.
You indeed were correct :D
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I wonder whether either the battery is getting tired or there's a bad connection to the battery. Your car may not be very old but it's had more use than many get in their lifetime.
Yep, you were correct too :D
Lets hope thats fixed it now.
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Dear Mr Osborn
Thank you for contacting Honda (UK)
I am sorry to learn about the issues you have been experiencing with the battery on your Honda Jazz. I have spoken to Marshall Honda regarding this and have been advised that you have already had this unit fitted, could you please confirm if this is the case?
The dealership have advised me that this is not something they feel is a result of a manufacturing defect. They have advised me that it is fairly common with all manufacturers to have a dead cell in a battery, they believe that this may also be linked to the vehicle having high mileage.
I am sorry if this was not the outcome you were looking for but unfortunately Honda (UK) would not be prepared to offer you reimbursement or compensation for this.
Thank you once again for contacting Honda (UK)
Kind Regards,
Customer Relations
Honda (UK) Customer & Aftersales
Oh well, if you don't ask . . . :D
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How completely thick of Honda not to recognise the marketing value of going above and beyond for someone who is demo'ing Jazz to hundreds of people per year.
If the dealer you go to is the local one, where all your pupil's could buy their Jazz's, they must be stupid too.
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How completely thick of Honda not to recognise the marketing value of going above and beyond for someone who is demo'ing Jazz to hundreds of people per year.
If the dealer you go to is the local one, where all your pupil's could buy their Jazz's, they must be stupid too.
Very true, I reckon 3-4 pupils a year buy a Jazz after learning in mine.
Bearing in mind that I spend £500-£600 a month on fuel, the £96 isn't a big deal, but I thought there might have been a token gesture.
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I have to agree. No wonder Honda dealers are demoralised with such little support. Not bright of the dealer either.
As you say, the word of mouth advertising opportunity is completely lost.
How very, very stupid.