Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: guest4132 on June 25, 2013, 02:46:50 PM
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Hello, I am about to take delivery of a new CVT Jazz which my wife will use regularly. Last winter I bought 4 winter tyres for her current car which literally changed her life. The difference it made on our bad Scottish icy roads was almost beyond belief and gave her an enhanced feeling of security and confidence. The tyres happen to be exactly the same size as required by the 15" alloys that the new Jazz has.
I am considering buying a second set of wheels and as they will probably be on for half the year, will probably stretch my budget for similar alloys. I would like a simple easy to clean pattern (e.g. 5 spoke) with a surface that will stand up to winter conditions. The cost of swapping tyres twice a year, which is what I have done so far, is such that a second set of wheels will soon pay for itself. Does anyone have any experience of buying new alloys for the Jazz or any recommendations or advice please? I have seen several brands that are from about £260 upwards for a set with fitting kit but find the plethora of brands confusing and am uncertain what to go for.
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I would look around for a set of 15" steel wheels as alloys and the salt used on UK roads dont really mix well. You could also try mytyres.co.uk - I purchased a set of 4 Nokian winter tyres and steel wheels for our 2012 EX cheaper than the trade could offer.
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got set of alloys from breakers for £60, even better then my 10yo ones :)
not sure about steels being more durable then alloys though
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I don't know if this will help you, but Rover 200/400 series used wheels which are compatible with the Jazz, in fact I bought a new /old stock Rover alloy to use on my Jazz as a spare.
The size we want--5 1/2 J is exactly the size that everyone else wants to get rid of to fit something wider, so there are bargains to be found.
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not sure about steels being more durable then alloys though
steel is tougher than alloy when hitting a kerb (which is what you do in winter) - alloy will crack but steel will just maybe bend a bit - save your alloys for the summer, which is what Europeans do (winter tyres are compulsory in many European countries October to April)
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You're on the right track with the 5 spoke 15" alloys. That's what I use during the winter, design is quite open and incredibly easy to clean, far easier than the OEM summer wheels. My last set made it through 9 Finnish winters with no issues and very little visible corrosion, I expect these to do likewise. Picture on the car attached, website link here:
http://www.ozracing.fi/car_wheels_var/MSW/25191/WINTER/MSW%2019/25545.aspx
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Very nice looking wheels. Easy to clean as well I suspect.
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steel is tougher than alloy when hitting a kerb (which is what you do in winter) - alloy will crack but steel will just maybe bend a bit
why one would hit kerbs in winter only? :) where steel bends a bit, alloy does not crack
at the point where alloy cracks steel won't be drivable, it will need dismounting/mending/mounting, probably more expensive then new rim.
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why one would hit kerbs in winter only? :) where steel bends a bit, alloy does not crack
at the point where alloy cracks steel won't be drivable, it will need dismounting/mending/mounting, probably more expensive then new rim.
well personally I have notice that the roads are a lot more slippery in winter - it is called ice and normally when you slide on ice it is the kerb that stops you sliding. Other than that alloy is more brittle than steel at low temperatures. All I know is that all the Europeans I have talked to use old steel rims in the winter and alloys in the Summer, must be a good reason.
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Cheap alloys will not stand up to winter well. You will need to dress them with wax regularly if you don't want them to deteriorate quickly. Steels would be better, perhaps 14" which will allow you to buy cheaper 14" tyres.
owever if you really want alloys, I have some for sale on e-bay for £80, they need a full refurb, but you could specify a high quality winter proof coating when you refurbed?
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I bought cheap new alloys once - never again. They started corroding in no time and were quite clearly nowhere near the quality of a genuine set of factory alloys. I'd just get a set of secondhand alloys or steel wheels - a set of 16" EX alloys without tyres recently went for only £37 because they were collection only (I forgot to bid on them and was gutted they went for so little!)
If you see a Jazz with fancy aftermarket wheels on in the street it might be worth asking the owner if they want to sell the original wheels to you.
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narrower tyres are better in snow, and less likely to aquaplane on wet roads (the water does not have so far to travel to get from under the tyre) , get standard size steel wheels with the most standard size tyre you can (not low profile), which will be much cheaper option. Wide rims and tyres will do you no favours in winter - ask any BMW driver.
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Culzean,
I am just about to take delivery of a 2nd hand 1.4 i-DSI SE. It comes with 185 / 55 15R alloys - as standard. I'm thinking about winter tyres, and about getting a second set of wheels. I plan to get steels rather than alloys. My question is "Should I get a set of 14" wheels (instead of 15") and fit 175/65 R14s?" I take it that doing so would not cause any problems?
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check insurers first.
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Good point, madf.
Thanks.
(Edit: I've now checked, and the insurance company says that it is not a problem.)
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There is an alternative to winters in the winter & "normals" in the summer and that's "all season" tyres. I run Vredstein Quadtrac 3s on my GD jazz on the original 15" rims. They are proper winter tyre rated (snow flake & mountain mark) and are superb in the winter conditions around Speyside, do much so that the limitations on snow is when the car starts to get lifted up. In the summer I haven't noticed any change in handling over the OEM Bridgstones.
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g470/dsl190/198e54c2.jpg)
Howeve for the GE ES (i think) Jazz I purchased a set of OEM 15"ers and put Conti proper winters on and swap them over. My favourite trick is going up a local hill in a few inches of snow, a hill that normally only "proper" 4x4s can get up. Well recommended. :D
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g470/dsl190/c41732da.jpg)
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I have thought about Quadtracs (or other all season tyres).
I have always hesitated because on tests on snow and ice they are just not quite as good as a good winter tyre. And when I am out and about on the snow and ice, I want the best grip I can get!
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Dedicated winter tyres may be better but not that I've noticed, the Jazz (on Quadtracs) runs out of ground clearance in snow well before it looses grip. I (& SWMBO) have driven through deep snow, on ice, on refrozen slush in temps down to -20c, and everything in between. Speyside winters can be a bit nippy & severe, 09/10 winter being the winter from hell! The only time when the Jazz was just left in a snow pile was in 2009 as even the tooled up Disco 3 struggled with the depth of snow. Party of the reasoning behind getting Quadtracs was that we'd never get caught out by the first proper snow (can be in October) or the last proper snow (can be in May).
The Jazz backed out of this once I cleared the windows, she was on Quadtrac 2s then. ;D
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g470/dsl190/dbc948fc.jpg)
Mind you, when it was too much for the Jazz it was play time, hopefully beating the plough.
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g470/dsl190/e92fc24d.jpg)
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Ahhhh - you clearly have more skill when it comes to driving in the snow than me!
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Probably just more practise, plus I fairly regularly drive off road and a lot of the techniques are valid. Driving on snow is fun, driving on ice is far more interesting.
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I'm a firm believer in winter tyres, I've used them for the past 4 winters and had my first issue in March this year when the Jazz ran out of ground clearance, clearly I should have taken the Land Rover ::)
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with winter just around the corner it may be worth discussing winter tyres again – problem may be if you have winter tyres and everyone else has summer, you can go and stop but they can’t – so if you get stuck in traffic – no advantage and if you brake they are going to hit you anyway.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter-tyres-4x4-grip-test-video (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter-tyres-4x4-grip-test-video)
I saw the result of this first hand with our neighbour who had a Toyota RAV4 on summer tyres, no good at all on snow in our street - couldn't even get off their drive.
this is a good site if you want to know what different size winter tyre and rim you can fit and not affect your speedo reading (185/55 R16 are not common, but 175/65 R15 are)
http://tire-size-conversion.com/tire-size-comparison/ (http://tire-size-conversion.com/tire-size-comparison/)
My niece has used Nokians on her Astra for last couple of winter with good results
link (http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/skw.pl?bestellnummer=7805--D-117040&cart_id=11836281.110.11692&dsco=110&sowigan=Wi&csuchen=1&Gmarke=Nokian&Gdub=1&Ggroesse=175/65%20R15%2084T&Gfelge=15%20inch&Gf_last=15%20inch&achse=A&Hersteller=Honda&PKWtyp=JAZZ%201.4&felge=15%20inch)
Edit by Admin - fixed link
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I used to use winter tyres, but then last autumn I got the set of Bridgestone A001 on steel rims (currently on sale on e-bay) and they were fantastic.
If they don't sell I will put them on the hybrid for winter. I don't know how the cvt will be with icy conditions yet, time will tell.
The A001's give a nice ride, are quite neutral in handling and are fairly quiet. I have not been using them because they are not 'eco' tyres and do knock a few percent of the mpg. Would be worth it though, to get to the hillier places on my area for work.
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I have been considering these http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/skw.pl?bestellnummer=7805--R-240197&cart_id=3607851.110.1885&dsco=110&sowigan=Wi&csuchen=1&Gmarke=&Gdub=&Ggroesse=175/65%20R15%2084T&Gfelge=15%20inch&Gf_last=15%20inch&achse=A&syt_d=&Hersteller=Honda&PKWtyp=JAZZ%201.3%20IMA&felge=15%20inch (http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/skw.pl?bestellnummer=7805--R-240197&cart_id=3607851.110.1885&dsco=110&sowigan=Wi&csuchen=1&Gmarke=&Gdub=&Ggroesse=175/65%20R15%2084T&Gfelge=15%20inch&Gf_last=15%20inch&achse=A&syt_d=&Hersteller=Honda&PKWtyp=JAZZ%201.3%20IMA&felge=15%20inch)|4%20x%20100.00%20x%2056.00|4|45.00&PKWtypgenau=|123558||1339|65|201104|%20|56.00|100.00|4|GP%201%20||P|E6*2007/46*0012*..&my_1_car=Honda__JAZZ%201.3%20IMA____|123558||1339|65|201104|%20|56.00|100.00|4|GP%201%20||P|E6*2007/46*0012*..
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They look good, are the Dunlops a good tyre?
You could have a look at Oponeo, I have used them and they were very good.
http://www.oponeo.co.uk/steel-wheels-for/honda (http://www.oponeo.co.uk/steel-wheels-for/honda)
http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finder/s=1/winter/t=1/car/r=1/175-65-r15 (http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finder/s=1/winter/t=1/car/r=1/175-65-r15)
Or there is always these: ;D
eBay item number:
221518076532
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Has anyone who has taken alloys off to fit steel winter wheels noticed that the bearing caps in wheel hub are missing ? I can see the end of shaft and Hexagon nut that holds the wheel on on my wifes Jazz Si. Don't Honda fit these anymore with alloy wheels ? more to the point can anyone point me in the right direction to get caps to fit ? last resort would be plastic wheel trims on the steel wheels to try to keep all the water and dirt out of bearings.
addition - have taken another wheel of my wifes Jazz and looks as though they don't fit these grease / dust caps when alloys are fitted. There is room inside the alloy to fit them and depth is there. Measured the inside diameter of the hub and it is tapered from 48mm down to 46mm so I guess these 47mm ones would fit. They don't cost a fortune anyway so will order some and update if they fit or not. I will leave them in when I put alloys back on as the inside of the hub and nut are proper rusty, looks like Honda don't care about water and grit getting in - especially as the plastic Honda badged cap in centre of alloys is pretty flimsy bit of kit.
http://www.autow.com/trailer-parts/trailer-suspension-spares/grease-caps-hub-bearings/SHG523 (http://www.autow.com/trailer-parts/trailer-suspension-spares/grease-caps-hub-bearings/SHG523)
http://www.tridenttowing.co.uk/trailer-parts-spares-c3/grease-hub-caps-c10/knott-avonride-avonride-grease-cap-47-mm-%C3%B8-p10501 (http://www.tridenttowing.co.uk/trailer-parts-spares-c3/grease-hub-caps-c10/knott-avonride-avonride-grease-cap-47-mm-%C3%B8-p10501)
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Has anyone who has taken alloys off to fit steel winter wheels noticed that the bearing caps in wheel hub are missing ? I can see the end of shaft and Hexagon nut that holds the wheel on on my wifes Jazz Si. Don't Honda fit these anymore with alloy wheels ? more to the point can anyone point me in the right direction to get caps to fit ? last resort would be plastic wheel trims on the steel wheels to try to keep all the water and dirt out of bearings.
addition - have taken another wheel of my wifes Jazz and looks as though they don't fit these grease / dust caps when alloys are fitted. There is room inside the alloy to fit them and depth is there. Measured the inside diameter of the hub and it is tapered from 48mm down to 46mm so I guess these 47mm ones would fit. They don't cost a fortune anyway so will order some and update if they fit or not. I will leave them in when I put alloys back on as the inside of the hub and nut are proper rusty, looks like Honda don't care about water and grit getting in - especially as the plastic Honda badged cap in centre of alloys is pretty flimsy bit of kit.
http://www.autow.com/trailer-parts/trailer-suspension-spares/grease-caps-hub-bearings/SHG523 (http://www.autow.com/trailer-parts/trailer-suspension-spares/grease-caps-hub-bearings/SHG523)
http://www.tridenttowing.co.uk/trailer-parts-spares-c3/grease-hub-caps-c10/knott-avonride-avonride-grease-cap-47-mm-%C3%B8-p10501 (http://www.tridenttowing.co.uk/trailer-parts-spares-c3/grease-hub-caps-c10/knott-avonride-avonride-grease-cap-47-mm-%C3%B8-p10501)
Hi
My partner also has the SI and likes it. Excuse my ignorance but could you make the point about the dust caps clearer or even better a picture.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Rick
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There is a hole in centre of the hub, on cars with steel wheels fitted as standard these are covered with a ' dust cap' or 'grease retaining cap' as shown in websites I included in previous posts. There is a hole in centre of steel wheels that unless the wheel is covered (and even if they are fitted) with 'faux alloy' plastic wheel trims is open to the elements and water etc can possibly get into bearings.
There is also a hole in centre of alloy wheels (attached is picture of my Civic wheel with centre plastic cap removed) that is covered with a click-in plastic cap with 'H' (for Honda) on it - this plastic cap is not doing a good job as the inside of hub and end of axle is going rusty.
when I fit winter wheels I want to fit a 47mm steel cap into the hole, and will leave it in when I put alloys back on.
I am sure this 'missing cap' is the case with every car fitted with alloys - but we do expect better from Honda engineers.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi
I now understand. I will purchase some of those 47mm caps.
Thanks again
Rick
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Hi
I now understand. I will purchase some of those 47mm caps.
Thanks again
Rick
I have ordered some 47mm, and some larger ones which may fit the Civic hub - if you want to wait until I am sure they will fit I should know by end of this week and will update this thread.
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Ok I'll wait for your update.
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The '56 reg 1.2 with steel wheels had 'em. The '05 1.4 with alloys also had them. I will take off a wheel tomorrow on the hybrid and have a look at what is underneath the alloys on that.
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The 47mm grease caps don't fit, they look as though they should be 49 or even 50 mm. Trouble is the bore inside the hub is tapered and I could only get so far down with my digital caliper jaws. Was worried that if I got them too big on the diameter they would not knock in far enough. At the top of the bore they rattle about 2mm, and at the bottom about 0.5mm - but the end of the cap hits the bottom of the bore - and it never gets tight enough to hold in on its own - I suppose I could seal them in with silicon :-X
what I may do is get some good quality wheel trims for the steel winter wheels and hope they keep most of the water and stuff out.
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I have Semperit Speed Grip 2 175/65x15 winter tyres on steel wheels. I've had them on other cars as well and have been very impressed. I fit wheel trims which imo look quite good (see my gallery photos) and I've never had any problems with bearings on any car since I've lived here (15 years).
The TCS, which is the Swiss breakdown service, test summer and winter tyres in various sizes and you can get a good idea of what's good or not good. DO stay away from the cheapest tyres. I've attached the link, it's in German but you can see which are worth buying and if you want any translations just ask me. http://www.tcs.ch/de/test-sicherheit/testberichte/reifen/winterreifen.php (http://www.tcs.ch/de/test-sicherheit/testberichte/reifen/winterreifen.php)
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I suppose I could seal them in with silicon :-X
When I eventually fitted my wifes Nokian winter tyres a couple of weeks ago I use some good quality silicon 'engineering' sealant (gasket grade - which I already had) to hold in the 47mm front wheel grease caps and they hold in just fine, surprisingly the rear hubs already had ' knock in' grease caps fitted - so best to check both ends of the car.
Checked out the level of grip with Nokians on a frosty road yesterday and braked hard, ABS only cut in a couple of times and car came to a halt in record time - wheels didn't spin when pulling away either. I tried the same in my Civic with Michelin ES summers on and it was a different story altogether.