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First month of ownership. 2024 Jazz Hybrid Advance.
When I test drove the car the RDM was set to delayed by the dealership.
Didn't really give it much thought. It never flagged anything during my test run on large and well marked roads near the dealership.
I thought I'd give it a try with "Early" and "Normal" setting.
Both seem to flag the white steering wheel icon several times a minute and I swear I'm driving straight down the middle. Even giving little unneccessary jolts to the steering wheel.
If I set to "delayed" at least the white steering wheel alert is less prominent.
But on the other hand I can cross the white line and drive in the middle of the road for 10 seconds and never see the amber steering wheel icon.
I just can't find any setting where it seem to be acurately reporting what's going on.
Is the RDM system on a Jazz just rubbish and best set to "delayed" to stop it moaning.
Or is there something wrong with mine?
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It depends also on the speed you are travelling at! You can cross a white line slowly without any issue, but faster (do not know the exact number) does cause warnings.
I think it is actually equal to or better than the systems most French or German cars currently have.
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I used to turn it off every journey
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I find it ok, doesn't bother me unduly. It was a bit of a shock when first week of ownership and the few times it 'jerked' the steering wheel.. but nothing to worry about now. It does what it does.. but just another gimmick really.
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It a bit of a marmite question. Some like RDMS , others dont.
I have no issues with the RDMS in my 2024 car. Maybe it has always been at the right setting for me. I have never checked. :-[ (If it aint bust I dont fiddle ;))
I regard RDMS as a system that might warn or intervene if it appears I am unintentionally departing off the side of the road. If I intentionally let the car drift over towards the edge of the road, or cross a line etc I have learned to expect it might give a warning or steering intervention. How else does it know I am not asleep? But it is smart. It can detect even the slightest steering intervention or use of brakes or indicators and 'knows' I am still in control and intend what is happening. If I stubbornly continue driving along the centre of the road,straddling the centre line it accepts that.
There are many situations where the safest place to position the car is in the middle of the road rather than inconspicuously skulking along the gutter almost hidden in the hedge. You have a better view ahead ,can see further round some bends ,can avoid car doors opening or things suddenly emerging from hidden, junctions gateways, gaps in the hedge etc. And other road users are likely to see you sooner.
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I'm just OCD with RDMS
I passed my advanced driving test in 1983 and I continued to adopt it's teachings throughout my driving
I know when it is safe and provides a smoother journey to slightly cut some corners. I know when not to indicate because there is either no one else around or it would be misleading
So, when I got the orange warning and wheel wobbling telling me never to drift over a white line I decided to turn it off every journey
No big deal, only took seconds once I learned the 3 presses
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To all contributions: well, it would be best if the driver himself decided whether he wanted these assistants to be permanently or temporarily turned on or off.
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I regard it primarily as a safeguard against me losing concentration, which I’m sure we’ve all done on occasions on long journeys. There continue to be accidents where there is no other explanation, however good the driver.
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It happens to me on a regular journey, I have to cross the line to avoid parked cars, the steering wheel tugs me towards the parked cars so I tug back to avoid an accident
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...the steering wheel tugs me towards the parked cars so I tug back to avoid an accident
No accidents, so you've always won (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/sportlich/a054.gif) with RDMS so far?
Knowing how it works, it doesn't really surprise me and it doesn't bother me either.
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I dislike it intensely. I drive on rural roads where it thinks I'm driving into a hedge.
It is part of my start up routine to turn it off every journey.
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...where it thinks...
(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a014.gif)
I don't think it 'thinks', but as Lord V wrote:
But it is smart. It can detect even the slightest steering intervention or use of brakes or indicators and 'knows' I am still in control and intend what is happening. If I stubbornly continue driving along the centre of the road,straddling the centre line it accepts that.
(https://doemeedordrecht.nl/Communities/Common/Images/Doe%20mee%20Dordrecht/Brede%20fietsstroken%20en%20verkeersdrempel.jpg)
In the Netherlands, on roads like this with these famous bicycle lanes(?) strips(?), RDMS goes crazy. But in my experience, it gives up after you ignored it three times and than leaves you in peace for a few minutes. Unfortunately, RDMS then comes back to life, and the process repeats itself.
It might be annoying, but you get used to it! :P
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Totally useless, dangerous and should be banned.
End Of
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Totally useless, dangerous and should be banned.
End Of
You mean roads like the Dutch ones shown above? ;D
Maybe you're right, ban them!
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I think the RDMS has improved on the more recent Advance models, it rarely intervenes now unless I'm drifting off course, it's a useful thing to have if you're tired and concentration isn't at 100%.
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(https://doemeedordrecht.nl/Communities/Common/Images/Doe%20mee%20Dordrecht/Brede%20fietsstroken%20en%20verkeersdrempel.jpg)
In the Netherlands, on roads like this with these famous bicycle lanes(?) strips(?), RDMS goes crazy. But in my experience, it gives up after you ignored it three times and than leaves you in peace for a few minutes. Unfortunately, RDMS then comes back to life, and the process repeats itself.
It might be annoying, but you get used to it! :P
[/quote]
Where's all the cyclists?
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I have a 23reg Crosstar.
I've never needed "physical assistance" to drive any car.
It's a bit of a pain to have to disable it every time I start the car, but that's 'elf n' safety for you.
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Agree, me neither
If I felt I wasn't fit to drive without assistance I'd stop driving ........ oh, I did, but not for that reason ;)
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I always turn it off every drive. Round where we live are lots of narrow lanes and it literally goes of pointlessly all the time. So for me, an annoyance, but one i can disable in about 8 seconds. Still, i would prefer just one straightforward button that i can turn it off with. ;)
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I always turn it off every drive. Round where we live are lots of narrow lanes and it literally goes of pointlessly all the time. So for me, an annoyance, but one i can disable in about 8 seconds. Still, i would prefer just one straightforward button that i can turn it off with. ;)
Renault and Dacia vehicles have that button.
I'm intrigued by the narrow lanes though. Do they have white lines at the edges that the RDMS is detecting? Where I live there are no white lines on our narrow lanes.
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I'm intrigued by the narrow lanes though. Do they have white lines at the edges that the RDMS is detecting? Where I live there are no white lines on our narrow lanes.
It can detect green grass,and dirt etc road margins but possibly white sidelines will be detected sooner and cause 'wobbles' while you are still a safe enough distance from the rough stuff.
At the risk of upsetting , or enraging ,some readers, I will repeat my opinions on this.(other opinions are available ;D) Its a bit like war and peace. Stop reading now if you are short of time. :-[
I seldom get any RDMS interventions on my 2024 car even when driving at quite high speed ,only a few millimeters away from the rough verges. Whether this is in the centre of a narrow single track road (until confronted with something coming the other way) or positioned in the middle of 'my' side of the road when the road is wide enough to have a centre line and you can usually (but not always) safely pass oncoming vehicles without risk of clashing mirrors. etc
There appears to be a setting (on later cars at least) where intervention is minimal ,even if you dont actively try to avoid rdms interventions by adapting your driving .IMO this should be the setting you use, NOT just switching it off every trip.
I accept that on earlier cars the RDMS can be a bit more intrusive. It took me a while to get used to steering twitches etc on my 2021 car. This improved significantly when the car had a free Software update. IIRC you had to book an appointment to have this done, or specially book a longer time slot to include it with a service. So its possible some cars have never been updated, especially if their owners habitually switch RDMS every trip. These might continue to do so when they buy a 'facelift' car without ever giving the improved driver aids systems a second chance to impress or make a second attempt at learning to work in harmony with it. ;)
As coldstart said in the recent post about ACC adapting to using driver aids can actually improve your driving.
Many say they have been driving many years without ever needing the help of driver aid and resent it now. . But with all due respect many years of driving does not mean you have reached the pinnacle of competence. We all make mistakes, get into bad habits , deteriorate in some areas. Every driver canl learn from active criticism, whether its from a respected advanced driving instructor , 'back seat driver', or the sometimes imperfect driver aid Gizmo . My own worst critic is me. The biggest benefit of some advanced driving lessons was learning I wasnt as good a driver as I thought I was. No one is.
With early cars there were several posts to the effect "rdms threw me into the path of a tractor" etc.
Sorry if this upsets you but those who believe RDMS is dangerous should maybe take a long hard think about their own driving. Could it be they are driving too fast for that road , reacting too late to hazards, being slow to react to any steering twitches. (IF so they may also react too slowly to a genuine skid on ice, mud, loose gravel etc - I find the occasional rdms twitch 'keeps me on my toes' ) It may be you are genuinely in control of cutting a corner, avoiding an oncoming vehicle by gliding onto the verge etc, but 'Gismo' doesnt know that, and your passenger might be terrified by it , but too polite to say so. Advanced drivers normally have raised awareness of how their driving affects , passengers, other road users etc. Just include Gizmo in this. If the result of this analysis is 'I'm always good, RDMS is always bad ' then maybe you are right. Good luck. Personally I'd rather drive at a speed and active positioning that remains Gizmo friendly .
But for those who have concerns about high tech drivers aid please dont let it put you off progressing to a mk4. Other brands of newer cars have similar systems. It is possible to drive without fully embracing the systems, or take your time to learn them. Mrs LV comes into this catagory. She switches nothing off , but seldom switches on optional stuff during her local trips. (eg brake hold, acc etc) but very quickly learned to accept and expect RDMS twitches "yes it always happens when I cross lanes at the traffic lights by Tesco' etc. No big deal
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LV, what settings do you have on your car for RDMS?
I accept your argument, and will try to see if your settings work in my driving. I don't believe i have altered anything with relation to RDMS since the car was new. I do remember it being OK on the main roads, but not on the narrow roads. So i have turned it off ever since those early attempts to live with it, for me, failed.
The sales guy said he drove a works car same model for a couple weeks and was not bothered by interventions, and he lives not far from me, so in theory it should be fine.
Anyway, please let me know. Cheers! :)
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Richard, there are no white lines on our local lanes either at the side or centre
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Hicardo. Mine is set on 'delayed' which may explain why its less intrusive . With a choice of Early, Normal, and Delayed its surprising that the factory default setting is 'Delayed' rather than 'Normal'. Maybe Honda get fewer complaints ;)
I cant remember what setting I used on my 2021 car. ' Delayed' sounds counter productive to a safety intervention system so I might not even have tried that setting.. Maybe this alone accounts for much of the apparent improvement in the 2024 car's system.
I will experiment using all three settings to see which is the best compromise for me, and Mrs LV. ;) Must remember to warn her if I unexpectedly increase its effect.
Must admit I didnt know which setting I was on and had to read the manual to find out how to check. :-[ Finding this in the manual made me realise there is still a lot of stuff (some of it new) that I didnt learn properly or have already forgotten . Must read it again , maybe several times ;D
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Thanks LV. Ive changed my setting from Normal to Delayed on RDMS, so let's see what happens! Will report back in due course...... ;D.
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... With a choice of Early, Normal, and Delayed its surprising that the factory default setting is 'Delayed' rather than 'Normal'. Maybe Honda get fewer complaints ;)
My understanding is that Honda somewhen changed the default to "delayed" (probably with the 2023 facelift because that's the default setting on my MY24 Jazz bought August 2023 as well)
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No, our 2021 had (and has) delayed as default setting, also in the manual!
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No, our 2021 had (and has) delayed as default setting, also in the manual!
Interesting! My 2021 Crosstar was set to 'Normal'. I've just changed it to 'Delayed', as a trial.
One previous owner - I did a Factory Reset when I took ownership. (Agree that the manual shows 'Delayed' as default.)
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Interesting! My 2021 Crosstar was set to 'Normal'.
Strange. Have a look at 2021 Jazz Owner`s Manual.pdf:
https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1653971839/textColumn/richtextdownload_90f/file.res/2021%20Jazz%20Owner%60s%20Manual.pdf
page 155.
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The same information is on p 309 of the current manual.
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A few days into my trial of 'delayed' and mixed. As before not really an issue on faster wider roads, but continues to bong and display on the screen on narrower roads with no white lines. Mine seems to start working at about 20mph, which doesnt help. Can the speed at which it starts working be increased do you know?
I'll persist for a bit, see if i can get used to it, but on a narrowish but still wide enough for 2 cars diversion this morning, i found the alarming and bonging too distracting, and turned it off.
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I wouldn't say its rubbish, but its very annoying, especially when you consider you cant deactivate it completely.
You can switch it off every journey, but it reactivates itself once the car is switched off.
Its the only very minor negative aspect of owning a Jazz Hybrid, as the constand jarring of the steering wheel when the system operates can be a real nuisance.
Its not rubbish, but not being able to fully disarm it permanently is annoyin
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There are many occurrences where you can safely, deliberately, cross a white line with no indication necessary, only to be presented with a large orange warning and steering wheel wobble
I hated it and turned it off every journey
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There are many occurrences where you can safely, deliberately, cross a white line with no indication necessary, only to be presented with a large orange warning and steering wheel wobble
RDMS gets excited when it doesn't sense any deliberate movement of the steering wheel. I find that a deliberate, but small, turn of the steering wheel means I can cross the line in the middle of the road without RDMS getting excited. If I steer a smoother and straighter course to drift across the line (or go near the edge of the road on a slight wiggle) then RDMS thinks I need waking up.
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So the RDMS doesn't like a smooth driving style (which is why its always going off in our car)
Surely something that detects an aggressive driving style would be a far better safety feature
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Its primary function is to save you from the consequences of driver inattention. Not to judge your driving . Crossing a line, cutting a corner etc may be perfectly acceptable if you have a good view but reckless stupidity if you do not .
If the car detects from steering and braking inputs that the driver is in control and intends what is happening it will overide RDMS intervention. You cant expect the system to detect if the driver is actually driving badly in the circumstances. I regard the occasional 'false alarm' a small price to pay for a system with potential to save you from disaster with an intervention or 'wake up' alarm.
When I was younger cars were comparatively noisy bone shakers requiring regular driver ntervention. Yet drivers still sometimes fell asleep. Cars are now quieter, smooth, comfortable and able to self drive to some extent. With many new potential distraction such as mobile phones etc. Or a lifestyle that disrupts sufficient sleep.
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With many new potential distraction such as mobile phones etc. Or a lifestyle that disrupts sufficient sleep.
In which case one should not be driving AT ALL
People need to learn that when you are driving a motor vehicle it should take the majority (and in particular circumstances ALL) of your concentration, not just the occasional passing thought.
When I am driving the phone gets ignored (or turned off) I do not adjust any control that requires me to look at it (so called smart screen) Thats what my co driver (aka Mrs Onion) is for.
... and when she is driving I take on the roll of co driver.
... and if I am driving alone, thats what i do DRIVE
'You' (the generic you) may consider the beeps boops and wheel shake helpful (which is a perfectly valid viewpoint) but being automated they give negative distracting results as often (or perhaps more so) that positive helpful ones.
<gets off soapbox>
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Jury still out
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Members of the Jury.
I agree driving requires 100 % dedication to the task. No one should drive while multitasking , or too tired to give it their full concentration. But many do. And to be blunt some drivers shouldnt be driving anyway,not only due to their age.
Some may be deluding themselves that many years of driving without mishap before drivers aids means they dont need them now, or in the future. Driver aid interventions are NOT a personal insult to your driving ability.
Even the best drivers ,young or old, can lose concentration as they grow weary. Your body can sometimes warn you in time that you are having short lapses and need to take a break. Ignore this at your peril. The next short step is being asleep at the wheel. :o More likely i suppose if you drive long distances or work long shifts.
Why would you want to opt out of additional safeguards by drivers aids? ? Often you will know why it happened,eg you deliberately crossed a line etc. But it may be unexpected and acts as an additional warning you may not be concentrating and need to up your game, or take a break.
I'm not sure about the earlier mk 4's , but the facelift has a 'coffee cup' warning light advising you to take a break I think it monitors the frequency of interventions and your reaction time,and maybe non stop driving hours which might suggest you are not concentrating. Or is that also an insult?
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Even the best drivers ,young or old, can lose concentration as they grow weary.
No... no Lord V, not me, not us! ;D
One of the main problems regarding road safety is the overconfidence of road users.
Most of us seem to consider ourselves excellent drivers. But all those others around us... they make such terribly stupid mistakes!
So guys: we have to accept all those driver aids and remember that they aren't even helpful for us, only annoying. But... they are for sure necessary for all those others! Those mediocre to bad drivers, that is.
(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/ground/midi.gif)(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a068.gif)
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My driving instructor (in 1959!) said “Always be prepared for what the other fool might do.
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(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a040.gif)
My driving instructor (in 1959!) said “Always be prepared for what the other fool might do.
So with that, he already confirmed my thesis back then.(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a049.gif)
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My driving instructor (in 1959!) said “Always be prepared for what the other fool might do.
My driving instructor said "You idiot, what the f*** are you doing " ;D
You have to say that to yourself sometimes.
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My learner driver instructor in 1970 grabbed the steering wheel and swerved the car to the other side of the road trying to kill a rat ! (he missed ) I like to think he regarded me as competent enough to cope with the unexpected. ;D But I hadnt spotted the rat :-[ He shouldnt have done it but it has improved my reaction to unexpected steering twitches, and I normally spot small creatures in time to safely avoid them.
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That sounds like what RDMS does ;D ;D ;D
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During my first driving test in 1967, a cat (no, not a black one ;D) suddenly ran across the road. I really had to slam on the brakes to avoid running it over.
The examiner next to me shouted: kitty, kitty, kitty, better watch out! And then to me: If I had braked first or you had hit it, you would have failed!
Fifteen minutes later I heard: You passed, congratulations!
It is really funny: apart from that, I remember absolutely nothing of the driving test, but I will never forget this incident.
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On my only test, which I passed, I noted the examiner had got me to pull up while he asked me a few highway code questions.
I realised straight away that we were on a very slight incline and he was waiting for me to slightly roll backwards. No chance, I know your ploy.
He also made it obvious when he was looking at me to make sure I was checking the rearview mirror. Again, when I saw his head turn I checked the mirror
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My cat story was a dog. On my second test (failed the first with going too fast) I remember we turned down a very long straight road, it seemed to go to the horizon, and way way up in front a tiny little dog started to cross the road, a long long way ahead. I came off the gas and touched the brake gently after looking in the mirror, and saw the examiner writing away in his pad. The dog was gone way way before we got to the spot, and I did not have to do an emergency stop and passed. Obviously he was impressed!
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RDMS would be rather disturbing if it activated during a driving test - would it be a “fail”? However, the 3-point turn and reversing round a corner would be a doddle with the reversing camera. I’m not sure if candidates still have to do those.
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At the age of seventeen in 1958 I bought a 1937 Austin Seven Ruby convertible. I drove it around insured, but without L plates, for several weeks. I never had a problem.
Before my test a couple of months later, I changed the semaphore arm turn signals, for those, "new fangled flashing indicators."
The examiner didn't like them and told me to use hand signals throughout the test.
Changing down required a slow gear change and "double de-clutching."
There was only about two inches of travel on the clutch pedal. It wasn't quite in or out," but close!
With the hill start, I was very careful. So I was a bit slow. The examiner made me do it twice. I guess he expected me to make a hash of it the second time, but I didn't. I don't think though, I did it much quicker.
As for the theory part at the end of the test. He only asked me two questions.
"What follows the amber?"
"What governs your speed at night?"
I got those right and he told me I'd passed.
I think they make up their minds sometimes, quite early in a test. The main thing they are looking for is the ability to drive with confidence.
From then on, sometimes my car had L plates on as I was acting as the "experienced driver" when my best friend drove the car. We were out in it most evenings.
One Saturday morning, I was about to leave our house, when there was a knock at the door and there stood a policeman.
"Is that your car outside?"
He didn't ask if it were my father's (he didn't drive at the time).
Obviously the police had been told by a nosey neighbour that they'd seen me driving it, sometimes with L plates on and sometimes not.
He asked to see my driving licence. Those back then were the little red card ones.
He looked at it said, rather triumphantly, "This is a provisional!"
"Yeah...but look in the back."
Where he found a tatty bit of pink paper. This was my pass slip.
He looked a bit crestfallen then.
You didn't need to pay for a full licence until the provisional had expired.
His attitude immediately changed as he'd come on a wasted journey.
He'd probably had to walk to our house.
I was a bit annoyed that someone had grassed me up. Maybe they were a bit jealous, as there were few car owners in our road.
So I said, "Is that it now, as I'm going out?"
He smiled and said, "If you're going out, could you possibly give me a lift back to the station?"
So I did.
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Ah, yes, reversing round a corner
That was the main reason my instructor used a Triumph Herald. You kept the rear nearside tail fin tip in line with the kerb and the jobs a goodun
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I think they make up their minds sometimes, quite early in a test. The main thing they are looking for is the ability to drive with confidence.
I think thats true. They know from experience if you are ready to pass and may overlook some mistakes if you recover with confidence. If overall they dont think you are ready they will use these mistakes as the reasons for the fail. But there must be some actions or omissions that will be a definite fail. ( speeding, not doing safety checks etc) Indeed many experienced drivers have probably fallen into bad habits and might fail if they ever had to take periodic driving tests.
Ah, yes, reversing round a corner
That was the main reason my instructor used a Triumph Herald.
I always regarded taking your test in a Triumph Herald was cheating. ;D They had the turning circle of a London Taxi, making three point turns a doddle . I havnt noticed learners practicing reversing round corner or three point turns recently. Maybe its no longer part of the test. Perhaps they will modernise the test with things like ' responsible use of 'snooze ' control etc. :)
My only driving test mishap was on my motorbike test. Back in the day when the examiner watched you riding round a few streets making turns etc , I got a puncture and had to stop. I still passed ! Sympathy vote maybe . But whatever. . At the age of 16 years 2 months I passed my test on a Honda 50 (legally a motorbike, not a moped) and was now fully licenced to ride any size of motorbike (soon to become a heavy 100 mph+ Honda 750 :o ) The good old days.
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Nostalgia is not what it used to be……
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I havnt noticed learners practicing reversing round corner or three point turns recently. Maybe its no longer part of the test.
"The examiner will ask you to do one of the following exercises:
- parallel park at the side of the road
- park in a parking bay - either by driving in and reversing out, or reversing in and driving out (the examiner will tell you which you have to do)
- pull up on the right-hand side of the road, reverse for around 2 car lengths, and rejoin the traffic"
(From: https://www.gov.uk/driving-test/what-happens-during-test)
So, no more 3-point turns and only a 1 in 3 chance that the candidate has to parallel-park. Which might explain some of the parking attempts you see. Still, they have updated the test to require the candidate to follow a sat-nav for part of the route.
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Nostalgia is not what it used to be……
This is true.
I remember an uncle who learned to drive a truck when he was in the army at the beginning of WW2.
During his test, the examiner told him to stop half-way up a hill.
Then said to him, "Give me your pack of cigarettes." (pretty much most men smoked back then)
He placed the pack immediately behind one of the back wheels of the truck, then told him to do a hill start. If he'd rolled back even a couple of inches, the pack would have been flattened. Fortunately for him when they stopped after a few yards and the examiner went back for the cigarettes, they weren't, so he passed.
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Putting their mobile phone behind the wheel would sharpen up their hill start skills ;D
When my dad learned to drive, in his 40's , he was supervised by an old boy who worked at the local crematorium. Who had never passed a driving test himself . He was able to simply apply for a full car licence in the 1930's. The same man sold me my Honda 50 motorbike when I was 15. Ensuring his ongoing job security ;D
I can remember when a lot of people drove 3 wheeled Reliants etc on their motorbike licence.
A teenage friend did the same. His cunning plan was learning to drive a car (of sorts) , without supervison or L plates . This plan fell apart ,quite literally, when he rolled the Reliant after less than a week. This same lad then found nobody would insure him for anything bigger than a 50cc moped. His solution was to buy a racing 50cc Garelli, that had pedals and therefore legally a moped, despite having a top speed of 100 mph.(160kph ) :o ( This was before the 60 mph Yamaha FS1E mopeds forced a change in the legal definition to include speed limitations. ) We lost touch but I think he survived his youth. ;D
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When my driving instructor was learning you the reversing procedure he
used to put a matchstick on rear parcel shelf standing up straight out of
the matchbox that was 1965
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Nostalgia is not what it used to be……
And probably never was... ;D
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I think we should switch our Topic departure mitigation system back on.... ;D
(https://www.toyotahybrideforum.nl/images/smilies/icon-ontopic.gif)