Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: AlanTR on July 09, 2024, 02:09:39 PM
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After 22,000 miles on my 21 plate Crosstar there is excessive wear on the edges of the front tyres. The service sheet shows the tread depth as 4 mm and the edge wear was logged as an advisory on the MOT.
The tyres are Dunlop Enasave EC300+ 185/60/R16 86H. We are in our mid-70s so there has been no hard cornering! Obviously it would be a good idea to have an alignment check.
Has anyone experienced similar excessive front tyre edge wear on their Mk 4 Jazz?
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It maybe you have hit a pot hole and its skewed the alignment of the wheel tracking . While not enough to notice on tbe steering wheel central position it may have caused it over a good distance . The high torque of the electric drive motor can add to the wear if you set off briskly from a tee junction.. however if you drive smoothly as i try to (mostly..) its simply going to be wheel alignment .?
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If the outside edges of both front tyres are wearing faster than the centre of the tyre it will be due to low tyre pressures. I had this on my Mk2 Jazz. Add 2psi to the manufacturers recommendation next time you add air to your tyres. Do it first thing in the morning before the tyres are warmed by the sun or driving.
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Just how bad is this 'edge wear'. Have they logged the 4mm depth at the edges, or are the tyres mostly 4mm with even balder edges? If they are noticeably bald then the tracking/tyre pressure may be relevant.
Some eco type tyres come with less than 7mm tread when new, so still having 4mm remaining at the edges after 20,000 miles is not a bad rate of front tyre wear. You may get more than this if its mostly motorway miles, but the Mk4 has incredible torque from rest, and even older drivers might get more front tyre wear than expected without being boy racers.
They may still have quite a lot of mileage left in them. The advisory might just be because they may not last another 12500 miles service interval .
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A couple of weeks ago I noticed some wear on the outer edge of my front nearside which I’ve not seen before. an SR,26 months old and only 7500 gentle miles. Driving is nearly all local. Took it to nearest tyre place who told me to replace both fronts as they also had some small age cracks in between treads-and check alignment,£320!
Tried a second one they too said same and wanted £240 for same. As I was near to Kwikfit as well I called in. They said nothing wrong with the tyres or slight age cracks and didn’t need alignment checking.
Lastly on way home I called at the local garage that normally service my cars (who are not tyre retailers)when not using the free service offer I’ve got on the car. They also said nothing wrong with tyres and asked if I have a lot right hand turns on my usual routes as this can be cause of slightly more wear on the tyre. Which I actually do.Also said they’ll easily last me until next year when I’ll probably change car anyway.Interestingly he said they don’t use OEM tyres like the Yokohama as they wear too quickly. They also service all the local ambulances and fit lesser know tyres to them( can’t remember the makes) and they get 30k out of them!
So in the end I’ve not had them changed but I’ll keep an eye on them.
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OEM tyres are often a collaboration between tyre maker and car maker to achieve the best possible results for the cars official emissions rating, noise level etc. 1mm or so less tread depth when new reduces rolling resistance and noise by a small amount, which might be just enough to achieve a lower banding for tax/emission zone advantages. They also recommend higher tyre pressure than used to be the case for the same reasons. The car maker doesnt care if you have to replace the tyres sooner, and for the tyre maker its a plus.
Its always been the case if your typical mileage involves a lot of bends and turns that your nearside front tyre gets a bit more than its fair share of outer edge wear. Even if you dont drive the car like you stole it.
I used to have a sharp U turn on my daily commute. Over the full life of the tyres my nearside front outer edge had about 0.5mm more wear than elsewhere. I could replace both front tyres while they were between the legal minimum of 1.6mm and the minimum 3mm recommended by the tyre industry. So I never bothered messing about rotating tyres. (rotating left to right is a problem with directional tyres anyway) There was nothing wrong with tracking.
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another reason - from another post - why I get the tyres rotated from front to back - also I get usually in excess of 30000 miles per set. driving is most up to speed limit, in small town and a roads very little motorway.
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Thanks for the various responses.
The front tyres are worn on the inner and outer edges (a bit more on the outer, as you would expect) which normally indicates under inflation. I check my tyres pressures regularly when "cold" and always maintain the pressures as per Honda specs.
Obviously I need to increase the tyre pressures - too late for the current front tyres which I have carefully inspected this morning. The guide for minimum depth is 1.6 mm over 0.75 of the central part of the tyre, my fronts are 4 mm in the central part but are barely compliant on the outer part. New tyres required.
The current Dunlop tyres have good reviews so no worries there.
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Several aspects to this as previously mentioned.
I worked in design/development in the car industry and yes, the OE tyres are very likely not the same as you will get as aftermarket even if the reference is the same for reasons discussed.
Electric/hybrid cars tend to be heavy, and torque from standstill is often quite high. Near full lock on the steering there is often quite a lot of scrub and wheel camber angles can get exaggerated, not normally an issue and a result of compromise to achieve good turning circles with higher speed handling. If you do a lot of full lock turns it can accelerate edge/shoulder wear.
Road surfaces in some regions can be quite abrasive too, depending on weather, hills etc, and what sort of grit is used locally.
Sounds like your tyres still have a bit of safe service life left if you've had several opinions which you trust.
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I’d swap the front tyres and rear tyres around. Probably cost a tenner at best. Should even out the wear and maximise the use of the set of 4. I’ve always done this on my car with the intention to replace all 4 tyres at once every few years.
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The front tyres are worn on the inner and outer edges.
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New tyres required.
I’d swap the front tyres and rear tyres around. Probably cost a tenner at best. Should even out the wear and maximise the use of the set of 4.
I would certainly NOT move front tires (that need replacing according to Alan TR) to the rear. That's where the best tires should be!
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I would certainly NOT move front tires (that need replacing according to Alan TR) to the rear. That's where the best tires should be!
100% agree.
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Any council road calming humps along your regular route?
Used to be common around cities who were hell bent in stopping cars being used on rat runs or slowing stolen vehicles being hammered at night.
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[quote author=Lord Voltermore link=topic=16885.msg144063#msg144063 date=1720559257
Some eco type tyres come with less than 7mm tread when new, so still having 4mm remaining at the edges after 20,000 miles is not a bad rate of front tyre wear. You may get more than this if it’s mostly motorway miles, but the Mk4 has incredible torque from rest, and even older drivers might get more front tyre wear than expected without being boy racers.
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Reading this post has prompted me to check the tyres on my new Mk4 Advance (3 weeks old & 550 miles) which was supplied with Yokohama Blue-earth-A tyres.
Tread depth is only 6.5 mm :( which I guess, confirms what others have said, regarding OE tyres.
For comparison, maybe someone can tell us the tread depth, of a new Non OEM Yokohama tyre?
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Reading this post has prompted me to check the tyres on my new Mk4 Advance (3 weeks old & 550 miles) which was supplied with Yokohama Blue-earth-A tyres.
Tread depth is only 6.5 mm :( which I guess, confirms what others have said, regarding OE tyres.
Please also have a look at https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/sitemap.html (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/sitemap.html) with special regard to the "Tyre label sheet" of the respective models. Interestingly, there is no mention of the Yokohama tyres for the Jazz :o
Please also note, that Honda seems not to care about the Jazz owners because there is no tyre listed with a wet grip rating better than B (the majority being C - or worse) where as the HRV comes with Michelin tyres with an A rating - go figure!
(btw: That's why I leaned on my dealership to have Michelin Primacy 4+ installed instead of the crappy BlueEarth things and I am more than pleased with my choice!)
Addendum: (build your own opinion)
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Yokohama/BluEarth-AE01.htm
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/Primacy-4-Plus.htm
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When I had mine checked for the slight wear on the outside of the front one and I wanted to get other quotes the first dealer told me to make sure I asked for prices on YOKOHAMA BLUEARTH-A AE-50
185/60 R16 86H HO. They have to be HO not just H ones as the HO stands specifically for Honda cars. So it’s strange the info sheets on the Honda site don’t show them.
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I wonder whats the difference. Does the HO version have less tread depth and a higher price or is there real changes to structure to cope with the higher stress common to all EV's?
My impression is most of those who have changed to a different tyre prefer them to the blue earths.
I use the original blue earths in summer, but have second set of wheels with Goodyear Vector 4 season gen 3 which I currently use in autumn winter and spring but would happily run all year. I prefer the Goodyears. No noisier, not noticeably less grip in summer, and much better in winter conditions. No noticeable reduction in mpg . They came with near enough 8mm of tread and tread wear is low.
When buying all season tyres I always chose the "XL" ( extra load) version which had slightly stronger side walls. This may have had slight affect on ride comfort etc. I notice that on the mytyres Uk site the Goodyear Vector 4 gen 3 XL is now also rated as "EVR" = suitable for Electric vehicles and plug in hybrids.
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[quote author=Lord Voltermore link=topic=16885.msg144063#msg144063 date=1720559257
Some eco type tyres come with less than 7mm tread when new, so still having 4mm remaining at the edges after 20,000 miles is not a bad rate of front tyre wear. You may get more than this if it’s mostly motorway miles, but the Mk4 has incredible torque from rest, and even older drivers might get more front tyre wear than expected without being boy racers.
Reading this post has prompted me to check the tyres on my new Mk4 Advance (3 weeks old & 550 miles) which was supplied with Yokohama Blue-earth-A tyres.
Tread depth is only 6.5 mm :( which I guess, confirms what others have said, regarding OE tyres.
[/quote]
For comparison, maybe someone can tell us the tread depth, of a new Non OEM Yokohama Blue-earth-A tyre?
I’ve also just noticed that my tyres are listed as 87H, not 86HO as others have mentioned.
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I’ve also just noticed that my tyres are listed as 87H, not 86HO as others have mentioned.
Please note, that the load index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code) on the official Honda tyre sheet for the Jazz varies from 86 to 88 so 87 is right in the middle of the range.
Moreover: The higher the load index, the better you are off!
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New front tyres (Dunlop Enasave EC300+ 185/60/R16 86H) fitted by Kwikfit. Cost £243.10, ordered online.
Alignment check done and front wheel adjustments made at cost of £69.95! Interestingly, misalignment also showed up on the rear wheels - this will be referred to Vertu Honda for comment.
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I run 4 x Falken euro all-seasons, and just had first two fronts changed after about 20K for same tyres again. My tyres also wore out on the outsides and were advisories on MOT. I usually run a couple psi less than recommended, but now going to run them at recommended pressure exactly. I was told by the fitter who checked the alignment that it was fine, just typical wear of modern driving and road conditions.
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This thread is quite timely, as I just realised yesterday my front passenger side tyre is worn on the outer edge, while still has a good amount of tread on the rest. Only the front passenger side. Driver side is fine.
Alignment was done in Feb when I bought the car, tyres are Nexen N'fera SU1 (not my tyres, it came with them when I bought it).
Is this normal / expected? Anyone else running these Nexen?
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Mine needed 2 new front tyres at about 18 k miles. The fronts showed uneven wear resulting in an advisory on the MOT. I had 2 new Yokohamas fitted to match the existing rears. I don't like mixing different tyres. I'm guessing that all 4 tyres will need replacing next time and that will be the right opportunity to fit better ones. Probably a 4 seasons type.
TyrePros did a wheel alignment check that showed a significant alignment error. I had noticed that when driving in a staight line the steering wheel was no longer centered but the 2 spokes were at a slight angle. At the same time there was no pull to the left or right so I suspected that the ECU that governs the electric steering assistance was keeping the Jazz in a straight line and compensating for the wheel alignment fault.
Anyway, with the wheel alignment now set correctly the steering wheel is back to level and the Jazz steering feels better and more responsive. The fronts might last for 20k miles. £69.95 well spent.
I think the cause of that alignment fault might be potholes. Far too many nowadays and I don't always spot them in time or I can't swerve to drive round them because of other traffic. My previous car had a broken front road spring, also likely to be caused by potholes. England has joined the third world. :-[
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I recently had my 2 year/22k service, and was surprised the original Yoko were showing 4mm on all 4 corners.
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Mine needed 2 new front tyres at about 18 k miles. The fronts showed uneven wear resulting in an advisory on the MOT. I had 2 new Yokohamas fitted to match the existing rears. I don't like mixing different tyres. I'm guessing that all 4 tyres will need replacing next time and that will be the right opportunity to fit better ones. Probably a 4 seasons type.
TyrePros did a wheel alignment check that showed a significant alignment error. I had noticed that when driving in a staight line the steering wheel was no longer centered but the 2 spokes were at a slight angle. At the same time there was no pull to the left or right so I suspected that the ECU that governs the electric steering assistance was keeping the Jazz in a straight line and compensating for the wheel alignment fault.
Anyway, with the wheel alignment now set correctly the steering wheel is back to level and the Jazz steering feels better and more responsive. The fronts might last for 20k miles. £69.95 well spent.
I think the cause of that alignment fault might be potholes. Far too many nowadays and I don't always spot them in time or I can't swerve to drive round them because of other traffic. My previous car had a broken front road spring, also likely to be caused by potholes. England has joined the third world. :-[
Of course a pair of new tyres should be fitted to the rear and the old rears put on the front.....just saying.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/364252/half-drivers-think-new-pair-tyres-should-go-cars-front-wheels-theyre-wrong
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I think the cause of that alignment fault might be potholes. Far too many nowadays and I don't always spot them in time or I can't swerve to drive round them because of other traffic. My previous car had a broken front road spring, also likely to be caused by potholes. England has joined the third world. :-[
When I started driving regularly in eastern europe 20 years ago the potholes were awful. Sometimes the whole road was one big pothole,with the danger coming from the occasional raised bit of tarmac. You expected there to be potholes and learned to drive accordingly., often on the wrong side of the road if it was smoother. ( like the old joke "what side of the road do they drive in Malta - The shady side " ;D)
Eastern roads are now much better - often better than the UK. But many drivers in the UK have not yet adapted their anticipation and technique to the new pothole reality , and we shouldnt have to.
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It maybe you have hit a pot hole and its skewed the alignment of the wheel tracking . While not enough to notice on tbe steering wheel central position it may have caused it over a good distance . The high torque of the electric drive motor can add to the wear if you set off briskly from a tee junction.. however if you drive smoothly as i try to (mostly..) its simply going to be wheel alignment .?
I hate to disagree, but wear on BOTH edges would, I would have thought, not been tracking.
Too much toe in would wear the outside edge, too little, to the point of toeing OUT would wear the inside edge.
More likely to be under inflation.
Eco tyres fitted to any electrified car are made of a different compound and are not known for their longevity.
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Mine needed 2 new front tyres at about 18 k miles. The fronts showed uneven wear resulting in an advisory on the MOT. I had 2 new Yokohamas fitted to match the existing rears. I don't like mixing different tyres. I'm guessing that all 4 tyres will need replacing next time and that will be the right opportunity to fit better ones. Probably a 4 seasons type.
TyrePros did a wheel alignment check that showed a significant alignment error. I had noticed that when driving in a staight line the steering wheel was no longer centered but the 2 spokes were at a slight angle. At the same time there was no pull to the left or right so I suspected that the ECU that governs the electric steering assistance was keeping the Jazz in a straight line and compensating for the wheel alignment fault.
Anyway, with the wheel alignment now set correctly the steering wheel is back to level and the Jazz steering feels better and more responsive. The fronts might last for 20k miles. £69.95 well spent.
I think the cause of that alignment fault might be potholes. Far too many nowadays and I don't always spot them in time or I can't swerve to drive round them because of other traffic. My previous car had a broken front road spring, also likely to be caused by potholes. England has joined the third world. :-[
Of course a pair of new tyres should be fitted to the rear and the old rears put on the front.....just saying.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/364252/half-drivers-think-new-pair-tyres-should-go-cars-front-wheels-theyre-wrong
I am aware of that. I asked the tyre fitter about that and he declined saying it isn't their normal practice.
If the rears lose grip I would react and correct the skid pretty much as a conditioned reflex. Having done a skid pan course + quite a lot of rally driving it's not going to bother me.
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Of course a pair of new tyres should be fitted to the rear and the old rears put on the front.....just saying.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/364252/half-drivers-think-new-pair-tyres-should-go-cars-front-wheels-theyre-wrong
I am aware of that. I asked the tyre fitter about that and he declined saying it isn't their normal practice.
Hmmm... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a014.gif)
If the rears lose grip I would react and correct the skid pretty much as a conditioned reflex. Having done a skid pan course + quite a lot of rally driving it's not going to bother me.
Hmmm... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a014.gif)
After doing several skid pan courses, I still prefer the tires with the best profile on the rear wheels... But then I haven't done any rallies.(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c086.gif)
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I am aware of that. I asked the tyre fitter about that and he declined saying it isn't their normal practice.
Really surprised that a tyre fitter declined to do something which is generally accepted to be safer. He's got the car up on a lift, it's not exactly difficult. And whilst you feel you may be able to cope with any issue, other customers may not. If that's their normal practice, sounds like a fitting outfit to avoid ... name and shame?
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I am aware of that. I asked the tyre fitter about that and he declined saying it isn't their normal practice.
You are paying for a service, its up to him to provide that service.
... or go elsewhere. Simples
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...The roads around me always seem to promote uneven wear, sometimes outer edge sometimes not. That's with the correct tyre pressures, unless it's my driving which is entirely possible ;D
I've always seemed to go through 2 sets of fronts for every 1 at the back and have never put the 2 new tyres on the back.
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... sometimes outer edge sometimes not. That's with the correct tyre pressures, unless it's my driving which is entirely possible ;D
By my humble experience outer edge wear always meant, that I was cornering too hard ;D
(proper alignment presupposed!)
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I read this thread yesterday as I was in kwik fit getting my two front tyres changed due to the outer edges wearing right down.
I asked Honda to do it but my dealer doesn’t do wheel alignment and said to go elsewhere. I lucky enough had a fitter who worked for Honda and he told me the original alignment supposedly done at the build stage was awful, they were told to just do a few tweeks then leave it.
That may answer the question as to why the front tyres wore as they did. The alignment was way out and is now sorted. May be an idea for anyone buying a new car to get an alignment done straight away, it may save you a few quid later on.