Unfortunately @BigT hasn't yet posted the photos with the exact error messages.
So we are limited to idle speculation.
What was wrong with the decades old, reliable, servo assisted hydraulic brakesI can recall plenty of diy articles etc about repairing old type servos and braking systems. Less complex maybe but not infallible.
These fancy systems seem unreliable to me
The problem seems not to be limited to Jazzes: :o
https://www.crvownersclub.com/threads/brake-feel-simulator.230382/ (https://www.crvownersclub.com/threads/brake-feel-simulator.230382/)
What was wrong with the decades old, reliable, servo assisted hydraulic brakesI can recall plenty of diy articles etc about repairing old type servos and braking systems. Less complex maybe but not infallible.
These fancy systems seem unreliable to me
Fewer post to say "'Nothing has happened and I love the car".
Fewer post to say "'Nothing has happened and I love the car".
Okay, here's one: Nothing has happened and I love the car! (except for that non-height adjustable passenger seat).
Fewer post to say "'Nothing has happened and I love the car".
Okay, here's one: Nothing has happened and I love the car! (except for that non-height adjustable passenger seat).
Me to ;D ;D
Fewer post to say "'Nothing has happened and I love the car".
Okay, here's one: Nothing has happened and I love the car! (except for that non-height adjustable passenger seat).
Me to ;D ;D
In case you are wondering what the purpose of a "brake feel simulator" is and how it works, I've found this presentation:Thanks. It's even more complicated than I thought.
(direct download link to pdf) https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=auto_pres (https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=auto_pres)
Short: There is more to a hybrid braking system than meets the eye!
If you apply the electronic handbrake when moving it stops you immediately with a big jolt. I’ve tried it at 5mph slowing down coming to traffic lights
As per the owners manual:
As per the owners manual:Thanks Steve_M!
I quickly found I could control the amount of braking quite effectively just by varying how much I was pulling on the switch. Not something you should do habitually of course as you are not in complete control of the steering etc, but I would recommend trying it out somewhere quiet.
;)
I didnt mean for normal use of the handbrake when you are stopped. For that I have always found my standard 'flick 'the handbrake will stay on and hold the car however steep the hill. I dont know if you can apply it any 'harder'.
I quickly found I could control the amount of braking quite effectively just by varying how much I was pulling on the switch. Not something you should do habitually of course as you are not in complete control of the steering etc, but I would recommend trying it out somewhere quiet.
;)
Now I’m confused, I was under the impression that the handbrake switch was simply a spring loaded on/off switch, with no means of varying the amount of braking effect.
I have my handbrake set to auto release, when moving off and in normal driving, use it when I’m likely to be stopped for some time, ie traffic lights etc.
So , how do I vary the amount of handbrake effort under those conditions?
Until now I have de rusted my discs using the footbrake. But this may be a better way.
It wont be many years before grandchildren will look at a manual handbrake with bewilderment ;D
What was wrong with the decades old, reliable, servo assisted hydraulic brakesI can recall plenty of diy articles etc about repairing old type servos and braking systems. Less complex maybe but not infallible.
These fancy systems seem unreliable to me
You omitted to add:
"and the cables had to be adjusted regularly.."
My first car was a 1929 Riley 9 Monaco with cable bakes.
I remember when cars had a mechanical connection between the brakes and your foot, some just had a cable which would break on occasion. Didn't make them anymore reliable but maybe a bit cheaper to repair and lot of repairs and servicing you could do yourself.
What was wrong with the decades old, reliable, servo assisted hydraulic brakes
These fancy systems seem unreliable to me
I am surprised there isn’t more interest on the Forum about this subject. From what I understand it seems to be cars over 3 years old that are experiencing the fault and some low mileage ones too so looks like it is either age related (slow deterioration of the affected part) or batch related which is what the translation of the Japanese website suggests.
My Crosstar will be 3 years old in June and I believe it was manufactured in January 2021.
Do I have a suspect brake simulator in my car? Will it fail at some point in the future and if so will the car be off the road for 3 to 5 months waiting for replacement parts?
This is my first Honda and I know there are a lot of loyal Honda folk here. I like my car but this major brake failure and the inability of Honda to fix it in under 3 months makes me wonder about the brand and whether going forward (even with the purchase of an extended warranty) I want to take that risk. As the car approaches 3 years old in June, maybe I should think of changing.
Evening.
I joined this Forum today in the hope of finding out more about what has been described on here as the dashboard lighting up like Christmas and the brakes failing. This has happened to me (60yo F and not a Motorhead).
My Jazz is a 2020 Crosstar - 3 years & 8 months old with less than 7K mileage. I bought the car in February 2022 with less than 1K mileage.
I had a recovery truck take the Jazz to my Honda Dealer today and received a phone call this afternoon to say it was “brake simulator failure” and that repair would be £1797.34 if they could get the part. He anticipated mid April as there were none in the UK or Europe. After reading previous posts, I won’t hold my breath on this delivery date.
The Honda Technician basically said I was out of warranty (obviously the first owner didn’t take out the extended warranty and I was never offered it). So now, like others on here, I don’t have a car, haven’t been offered a courtesy car and have a hefty bill. Any suggestions? I assume they won’t order the part until I pay up?
This problem seems to be far more common that the Dealership realises and isn’t just the Jazz.
Is this a safety issue? Should I just take the hit or argue that a less than 4 year old car with less than 7K on the clock really shouldn’t have a failure such as this?
I joined this Forum today in the hope of finding out more about what has been described on here as the dashboard lighting up like Christmas and the brakes failing. This has happened to me (60yo F and not a Motorhead).Welcome to the forum!
I had a recovery truck take the Jazz to my Honda Dealer today and received a phone call this afternoon to say it was “brake simulator failure” and that repair would be £1797.34 if they could get the part. He anticipated mid April as there were none in the UK or Europe. After reading previous posts, I won’t hold my breath on this delivery date.
I agree.
What he posted seems to be proof that Honda is aware that something was amiss with the brake simulator for the cars manufactured in the periods mentioned:
July 2, 2018 - March 1, 2020
(Total 525,568 units)
※This case was reported for improvement measures at the notification number "661" dated March 31, 2020, but since a new cause has been found, the improvement content will be changed and notified again.
※Part of the scope includes vehicles that are not subject to renovation.
Half a million cars with this kind of fault is nothing to sneeze at!
Even Max Verstappen experienced a braking problem! So now there will be more attention :P
I have just discovered this forum since I also appear to have the brake problem with my Jazz eHEV which is 3.5 years old with just under 9K mileage. When I started up yesterday I got the “Christmas tree” lights effect on the display which was flashing between ES and EP with 2 red circles around the letters. When I tried moving the car I noticed the brakes were very spongey and after driving the car a few yards I got a red Stop signal. I put the car back in my parking slot and phoned my local Honda dealer who informed me that the earliest they could take the car in for a diagnostic check would be Wed 3rd April. My 3 year warranty expired in Sep 23 so I guess I am in for a big hit financially. I will post the result of the diagnostic check as soon as I have it.
I have just discovered this forum since I also appear to have the brake problem with my Jazz eHEV which is 3.5 years old with just under 9K mileage. When I started up yesterday I got the “Christmas tree” lights effect on the display which was flashing between ES and EP with 2 red circles around the letters. When I tried moving the car I noticed the brakes were very spongey and after driving the car a few yards I got a red Stop signal. I put the car back in my parking slot and phoned my local Honda dealer who informed me that the earliest they could take the car in for a diagnostic check would be Wed 3rd April. My 3 year warranty expired in Sep 23 so I guess I am in for a big hit financially. I will post the result of the diagnostic check as soon as I have it.
This is a very concerning thread, since it was started a couple of months ago.
When I bought my EX model, one year and ten months ago, I was fortunate in taking advantage, of the five year guarantee and servicing, if I took out the Honda finance deal for a minimum of six months.
Am I correct in thinking, that this brake simulator, will be covered for the full five years, for those fortunate enough to have had the finance deal package in place?
Still think this is a brilliant car though!
If you check your car's VIN (chassis) number against the list on page 4 of this thread you can be certain one way or the other (unfortunately my Crosstar is on the list)I have just discovered this forum since I also appear to have the brake problem with my Jazz eHEV which is 3.5 years old with just under 9K mileage. When I started up yesterday I got the “Christmas tree” lights effect on the display which was flashing between ES and EP with 2 red circles around the letters. When I tried moving the car I noticed the brakes were very spongey and after driving the car a few yards I got a red Stop signal. I put the car back in my parking slot and phoned my local Honda dealer who informed me that the earliest they could take the car in for a diagnostic check would be Wed 3rd April. My 3 year warranty expired in Sep 23 so I guess I am in for a big hit financially. I will post the result of the diagnostic check as soon as I have it.
This is a very concerning thread, since it was started a couple of months ago.
When I bought my EX model, one year and ten months ago, I was fortunate in taking advantage, of the five year guarantee and servicing, if I took out the Honda finance deal for a minimum of six months.
Am I correct in thinking, that this brake simulator, will be covered for the full five years, for those fortunate enough to have had the finance deal package in place?
Still think this is a brilliant car though!
I too find it a tad concerning and similarly to you, my car is 1 year 6 months old. However, it was pointed out earlier in the thread that this simulator was a known (by Honda) fault, and was restricted to cars manufactured in a certain timescale during 2020. So hopefully we are ok.
As unfortunate as these instances are, I'm also a member of the Mazda CX-60 forum on Facebook. To say that the CX-60 is an utter ********** show in terms of reliability is an understatement. Early adopters have been saddled with a plethora of problems. There are currently more than 10 TSBs to address serious issues - such as sticky steering, transmission shock (juddering), rear suspension / front suspension problems, camera failures (which result in the vehicle slamming on the brakes for ghost vehicles etc, etc). I'd say that, at a guess, most owners have at least 5 issues, with some experiencing 20+ (to the point that countless owners are trying to reject their vehicles). And this was Mazda's so called attempt at luxury!!
So, in comparison, the Mk4 Jazz is reliable as they come. Yes, the brake failure one is expensive. And I sympathize with owners who have had that issue :( But let's put things into perspective! I think us Honda owners are spoilt sometimes ;-)
I don’t follow the logic of this post. Just because there is another model of car with numerous faults does not mean that the problem with the brake failure with the Jazz eHEV models is not serious. It renders the car undriveable and the time off road and cost of repair is unacceptable for a low milesge vehicle that is only a few years old.
I am a bit confused by the chassis numbers on the list on page 4. They show 7 digits. My car appears to end in 6 digits 2021**
If I ignore the first digit this appears to put my car within the GR3 1200001 -GR3 1218092
May21 3rd year of Reiwa (21 may 2021) to 2 Feb 4th year of Reiwa (2 feb 2022) which is about right as the car was delivered in October 2021.
Is this correct?
I am a bit confused by the chassis numbers on the list on page 4. They show 7 digits. My car appears to end in 6 digits 2021**
If I ignore the first digit this appears to put my car within the GR3 1200001 -GR3 1218092
May21 3rd year of Reiwa (21 may 2021) to 2 Feb 4th year of Reiwa (2 feb 2022) which is about right as the car was delivered in October 2021.
Is this correct?
It might be that the 7 digits are referring to the engine number, as the brake servo is bolted onto the engine (on the backside).
My 2022 Jazz has engine number GR3-LEB8-3102084 , condensed to GR3-3102084 there is no match in the list.
I guess the Honda dealer or importer should know what the 7 digits are referring to.
I certainly would not buy a car with that fault. Period.
If the manufacturer does not resolve it free of charge, I will never buy another Honda.
And not having repair kits available for a common fault is disgusting.
UK consumer law is quite clear on this issue with cars..
Honda should be ashamed of their actions or lack of them.
I certainly would not buy a car with that fault. Period.
If the manufacturer does not resolve it free of charge, I will never buy another Honda.
And not having repair kits available for a common fault is disgusting.
UK consumer law is quite clear on this issue with cars..
Honda should be ashamed of their actions or lack of them.
Maybe its because the fault is only now appearing. It seems to be an age related, rather than mileage related issue. Cars reaching the 3.5 year old period, and by all accounts limited to a batch. I would hope that as I type, Honda are already in the throes of acquiring this part, and are waiting for dealers to start saying their customers are getting angry. I would then hope, that rather a damaging deluge of complaints about driving safety standards, that the matter will be dealt with quietly and calmly in the favour of the customer.
My update from the dealer this afternoon.As soon as my car is diagnosed I will take the same actions as above. The more complaints Honda receive will hopefully make them take action to avoid adverse publicity which is bound to happen unless they fix this problem soon.
As expected it is the Brake Simulator. They have contacted Honda who have agreed to contribute just over £400 towards the part which costs £1428.35 (inc Vat) but the final bill would still be at least £1300 with labour. To be fair the Dealer is very supportive and agrees with me that this is far from ideal.
I have phoned Honda UK Customer Service and politely told them the situation (with many similar faults with other customers and with the Japanese recall ). I have emphasised that such a part which is faulty and could cause an accident with a brake failure is not up to what I had believed Honda standards to be. Indeed it is so dangerous that there needs to be a recall immediately. Furthermore, I and other customers should not have to pay. They are expected to come back to me by the end of next week with an answer from higher up.
My current dealer has checked with one of its other dealers and they have had 6 similar failures on the Honda E and Jazz in the last few weeks.
I feel that other customers should also contact Honda UK by phone or email if they haven't already and be prepared to follow through with various consumer groups. The simulator on these faulty cars is obviously not fit for purpose. This fault may well be putting many customers unknowingly in considerable danger and the right thing to do is for Honda to make it public. Good customer service means putting things right as soon as possible. Lets hope Honda does something very quickly. My dealer has ordered the part and possible delivery date may be by the 15th April. I will update when I have further information from Honda or my dealer.
I will be extremely surprised Chis52 if your problem is not the Brake Simulator and I'm sure you will let them know about all the other examples - assuming they are not aware already. Hope they are as supportive as my dealer seems to be, although of course that is not enough at present, and it looks like we may need further action than just supportive dealers.
As Cobb2 implies this absolutely should be a recall and I guess the only reason it hasn't been is that it will be ruinously expensive for Honda as it's clearly not just the Jazz that's affected.I suspect that the real cost of the problem part and the labour to replace it is much less than the cost that people have been quoted. I suspect that Honda are still trying to figure out the extent that the potential problem will become a real problem and also how much boost the production of the appropriate part. Just-in-time manufacturing isn't geared up for a sudden increase in demand for a part. Nonetheless, there appears to be tardiness in Honda Japan telling Honda Europe / UK to be prepared for this. Any problem is potentially reputation damaging, but this can be largely mitigated by promptly applying a fix with minimum inconvenience to owners.
. Apparently Honda have been the main shareholder in Nissin, not sure if they still are, but there is an interesting Wikipedia page on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissin_Kogyo#
From the excellent post on page 4 (by FMIB) it appears this issue only arose with model years 2019/20 ?
Welcome to our forum Spodric.
2.4 hours repair time is fine, but will the dealer have the part in stock, or will you have to wait a month?
Just sayin’.
If we had some US States consumer law, this debate would be unnecessary.
Getting quite concerned now, 2020 plate and low mileage seems to be a common fault now.
Only one year left of guarantee so if it goes wrong it will hopefully be within this time.
Hi All.
First of all thanks for all advice and comments.
I notice that since my post there have been more joining the “Brake Failure Club”.
My update is that, through the Dealership, I have been offered £444 by Honda UK as a goodwill gesture and the part will (supposedly) be here on the 19th April.
I have the phone number for Honda UK Customer Relations and will be phoning them regarding this issue. I will also request an email address so that I can confirm these issues in writing.
I saw a bit of The One Show tonight which now incorporates Watchdog. They said to contact them with problems both big and small. This could be a starting point to draw attention to this Honda failure.
My biggest concern at the moment is that my car is sitting in the Dealership carpark deteriorating. They have assured me that it will be fine, but how can it? I also asked what the guarantee/warranty would be on this new part and they didn’t seem to think that there would be one!
How many more before a Recall!
This might be a good start point to highlight the issue for a potential recall
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect
Hi All.
First of all thanks for all advice and comments.
I notice that since my post there have been more joining the “Brake Failure Club”.
My update is that, through the Dealership, I have been offered £444 by Honda UK as a goodwill gesture and the part will (supposedly) be here on the 19th April.
I have the phone number for Honda UK Customer Relations and will be phoning them regarding this issue. I will also request an email address so that I can confirm these issues in writing.
I saw a bit of The One Show tonight which now incorporates Watchdog. They said to contact them with problems both big and small. This could be a starting point to draw attention to this Honda failure.
My biggest concern at the moment is that my car is sitting in the Dealership carpark deteriorating. They have assured me that it will be fine, but how can it? I also asked what the guarantee/warranty would be on this new part and they didn’t seem to think that there would be one!
How many more before a Recall!
May be a different issue but see
https://thebrakereport.com/honda-to-recall-chinese-hybrids-for-faulty-brake-pedal-sensor/
Google also found a brake simulator recall on Honda Malaysia but I can't access the text
The China report is dated December 2022, the Japan one is December 2023. The similarity may reinforce the suggestion of a systematic problem - assuming the same component manufacturer.
I have the Honda UK email address and suggest that everyone effected by this brake problem write a long, informative email.I found it this morning so I have backed up my letter with an email as well. I agree that if more people contact Honda UK it may help.
info.UK.car@honda-eu.com
The more, the better!
Just saw this in case its the same issue :o
https://www.hondaeforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1568&sid=7128ad47c3df833ab35978eefa9ee360&fbclid=IwAR1uOwhQVSytjN15jZ85Cr_fjSUUZBpZmawvDyFJHM51WS4CJaWFCG6BETc_aem_AWlqsPi_rYR7al6dscc1LWnG106c8hGYOf5--WAzh1M69_9kHuckk1gYfHw9WoZ61I8gvzTQGO7wSfGR55PgoAsv
Wow Spodric! For 2 reasons -
The first being the hire care frustration where they can dictate whatever suits them and there’s not a lot we can do about it til later. My sympathies. I am fortunate that we have a second car: my husband is still driving our 2002 Honda Jazz SE which has never caused any problems over the last 20+ years. ;D
The second being, if this is the same problem affecting myself and others on here, that the part will arrive in 72 hours! I honestly hope this is the case for you. It seems to indicate that the part is available when I have been told it isn’t.
Good Luck
…. HUK who are "under extreme pressure to recall these cars".
Small claims court for me if mine goes this way, ...Anyone considering any sort of legal action to recoup their costs should ensure they get the failed component(s) back after the repair. And get an independent technical expert to examine them to establish the root cause of the failure.
...
Yesterday I received a call from the owner of the dealership, who I have never met. He told me that he had heard I was an unhappy customer, asked for brief deatils of the issues and then stated that I was now banned, together with my car, from ever going to any of the Honda dealerships he owns in the local area. Total call time - less than 5 minutes.
...
I am amazed by the attitude of Honda in demanding payment for the replacement of a part so fundamental to vehicle safety . As my Jazz is still waiting the delivery of its replacement wiring loom I shall see how it goes once repaired . It’s been standing at dealers since end of feb so see what issues that causes . The 3 year warranty expires end of august so if it’s trouble free I will extend the warranty for two years . Any gremlins whatsoever and I will be trading for a Toyota hybrid with a 10 year warranty .
Tinny's post about being banned is gobsmackingly awful. Getting legal advice on suing that Honda dealer would be my next move. The dealer deserves it.
Update:
I had to chase them because they are not keeping me informed, but Bath Honda told me today they haven't received the part that was due yesterday. It is now looking like Tuesday next week before they will receive it. The repair of my Jazz will get "priority" as soon as they have the part. Why am I not going to hold my breath ...?
Meanwhile I have extended my car hire until next Wednesday. It is difficult to keep track of the hire cost over the phone, but I estimate that I have racked up over £700 so far.
And so they should ! Its crazy to think Honda can try and side step such an issue in tbe first place ! Given the ever increasing complexity of cars manufucters must realise owners wont tolerate crazy unexpected awesome bills for parts that should last the majority of a cars normal life . Honda are falling behind rapidly as the likes of Kia are offering hybrid tech with 7 year 100k warrantry supported by enthusiatic dealers . And its not down to how much you spend as our local dacia dealer gives great customer care according to neighbours driving their cars .
It has been mentioned, that a brake fluid change at the service interval, has triggered this fault. Is that the case, or has a different picture emerged?
It’s good to know that my 22 registered car will be covered, but what are the newest cars affected?
Nomis, will you mention this to the Honda dealer?
I think we would all be interested to hear their response.
When my next service is due, it's third, in August, I'm considering going back to Crown Honda for it if it entails a brake fluid changeYou are wise to steer clear of the Honda dealer in Reading (Marshalls). The servicing department rarely bother to answer the phone and cannot be relied upon to pass messages. I ended up going to the dealer in Maidenhead to fix my brake fault.
My nearest dealer is Reading but I've read some worrying reviews about this dealer on various forums with them being less than helpful when problems arise ..... unless you're paying
Just glad I've been a Which? Legal member for years. Used them a couple of times and they are good with consumer problems
I thought you can access your service record online now, especially if you have a newer model with no service bookThat's exactly what the dealer has told me.
You need to have or create a Honda account.
You need to have or create a Honda account.
I find it quite strange how Honda sees fit to inflict different rules on its customers!
In Switzerland https://www.de.honda.ch/services/dsr works completely free from any account (I do not know quite yet if this actually is an advantage as the VIN is visible for anyone getting close enough to the vehicule).
So any random person can read the car's VIN and find out it's service history?
Your Digital Service record can be checked here: https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/digital-service-record.html
You need to have or create a Honda account.
If honda are paying for tbe replacement defective part then the non delivery of that part is causing the need to hire a replacement. Simple Honda should pay if that delay is weeks and weeks . You cant buy the part elsewhere .My dealer would provide a courtesy car under such circumstances even if Honda Uk wont ! Thats why the family owned dealers keep their valued customers !! You absolutely wouldnt get this treatment with toyota or lexus !I agree that a good dealer would and should look after you. However as already mentioned on here, it would appear that Toyota/Lexus are saints. They are not, and a visit to their forums will confirm. I have had Lexus for years and the same criteria as above apply, some dealers are good others aren’t and they experience very similar issues, including angry forum members.
Absolutely agree with the variable standard of dealers, irrespective of car manufacturer. However, a major point with this brake failure is it is occurring just outside the standard Honda 3 year warranty and from numerous posts it seems Honda certainly at first see this as a customer problem not theirs. I believe that provided they service your car regularly, Toyota provide a ten year warranty which is a definite plus.If honda are paying for tbe replacement defective part then the non delivery of that part is causing the need to hire a replacement. Simple Honda should pay if that delay is weeks and weeks . You cant buy the part elsewhere .My dealer would provide a courtesy car under such circumstances even if Honda Uk wont ! Thats why the family owned dealers keep their valued customers !! You absolutely wouldnt get this treatment with toyota or lexus !I agree that a good dealer would and should look after you. However as already mentioned on here, it would appear that Toyota/Lexus are saints. They are not, and a visit to their forums will confirm. I have had Lexus for years and the same criteria as above apply, some dealers are good others aren’t and they experience very similar issues, including angry forum members.
The Toyota 10 year warranty is not free but paid on top of the service charge.
The Toyota 10 year warranty is not free but paid on top of the service charge.
There is no extra charge for the Toyota warranty extension. So long as you get the car serviced at the appropriate time, another year gets added on. Not sure what you mean by 'paid on top of the service charge'.
Of course i can only comment about my local toyota dealer who my wife has used for over twenty years . Buying both new and used cars and for servicing and MOTs . It is family owned and has 3 toyota garages and a lexus one in the group. And while you pay more than a good local independent you have the peace of mind and also toyota parts. You dont have to take any car to a franchised dealer to have any service -we are fortunate to have good ones for honda toyota suzuki and kia in our area with many happy customers
My Honda Jazz, bought in Feb 2021, has developed this fault. Being a Japanese person I can check this issue in various Japanese sites (official Honda HP, etc), try to find out what's happening there. It appears Honda has issued same (or similar) product recall registered in Japan and China respectively with slightly different tones. In Japan, Honda issued the product recall relating to the failed Brake Operating Simulator involving 530K cars (across the latest models), made btwn 2/7/2018 and 15/9/2022, but in China Honda's recall sounds a little bit different (I think the same issue though). In Japan, the main culprit is identified as corroded Brake Operating Simulator where excess oil which spilled over the electronic component or contacts, resulting in a loss of signals. The oil mentioned here is applied in production process of the Simulator, not coming from outside the unit.
I have called the Honda Assistant only to be told my Jazz is out of warranty by 3 months, can't offer any help. I thought the Honda 5 year service plan of mine could help in any way but it became clear 5 year service plan is not same as 5 year warranty. Soon I will visit my Honda dealer driving my Jazz with reduced brake performance. I hope my right foot is still strong enough to control the car. By the way I also have another Honda car, 2022 HRV which use the same doomed Simulator. I learn Honda has suffered a series of bake issues involving mainly their K-cars in recent years. Do I look for elsewhere when buying a next car?
Which just confuses me why some countries are being ignored
If Japan and China have a recall then why not global !!!!!
I have my 22 reg. model in for its second service in a couple of weeks.As far as I learn the Simulator is weather proof, and external water/oil ingress have play no part here. Excess oil during the assembly of Simulator is to be blamed.
Is it worth asking, for the simulator to be given a second coat of looking at, during the underbody inspection, or are there no external (moist) clues, of an upcoming problem?
Hope that this problem is resolved, on what is a terrific little car.
Jazz Driver -" I wonder if this brake issue has been reported to DVSA, as it is a safety issue".Its a waste of time reporting the problem to Honda, they are already aware of the problem. Report it directly to DVSA.
Several of us have already contacted Honda, but the more owners with the problem who do should help.
If you are interested Honda Japan's recall is published in Japanese, https://www.honda.co.jp/recall/auto/info/231208_683.html
Position of Brake Operating Simulator can be identified by clicking 改善箇所説明図。
I think I've already made up my mind not to darken Honda's doors again, considering the abysmal way they are treating UK customers. I bought my mk.3 used and do all the servicing myself. Fortunately it seems to be a pretty reliable version, and I like it and enjoy owning it and will keep it for the foreseeable future, but no more Hondas after this debacle. Sorry Hondasan, you've lost one customer and I will happily warn off anyone who asks me what I think of the company. Such a shame to ruin a good reputation by such foolish behaviour.
@Tinny
"As I’m banned from the original dealership"
OMG, that's a bit high handed! Hope no violence was involved?
Is this called 'Customer Care' ?
https://www.dacia.co.uk/dacia-news/dacia-zen-warranty.html
Even Dacia are now doing it as well. Also on cars for existing owners. Even more incentive for me to look at the new Duster hybrid that’s coming out later this year that’s getting Excellent reviews.
The main thing with this for me is that maybe one day I'll go out to the car to be met with a dash full of lights
The car is therefore unusable on what may be a day I need it most
Russian roulette
Honda should be supplying this part to dealers to be changed during routine servicing at the very least
As it is there is likely to be regular instances of MK4 on trailers being delivered back to dealers because they can't be driven which won't help sales
Since my Jazz was towed away to Honda Stoneacre, Chesterfield on 29/04/24, they contacted me over the phone only once on the following day (just confirmed my car was with them). Then without my foreknowledge, I have had a call from Thrifty rent-a-car firm, telling that a rental car will be delivered this afternoon. A quick call to Stoneacre has put me in the loop what's going on. Let's make long story short, they say Honda UK have agreed to pay for the replacement parts but NOT a labour cost (approx £450) at this stage. Unless I have agreed to pay for the labour now they will not take further action (to place an order for parts from Honda UK). Not knowing at this stage whether Honda UK will ultimately agree to pay for the labour, I have to choose to close the curtain once for all. I may end up with paying for the labour but, instead, I would like to start the new motoring life with not Honda. See what will happen to me next. BTW availability of the Brake Operating Module is unknown at the moment.
I would give them the go ahead for the repair to save you waiting but fight your corner with Honda UK. They eventually paid for the parts and labour in my case altough the car was 6 months out of warranty.
https://uk.hondaownersclub.com/forums/topic/19435-brake-servo-control-unit-failure-happened-to-your-car/
My Honda was finally repaired after around 5 weeks and it was good to drive it again. Unlike some dealers on this forum mine have been very empathetic and supportive and therefore now I feel I should mention them by name - Hendy Honda - near Portsmouth - and all costs have also been met by Honda. However, I still await with interest for DVSA’s findings with Honda.
My Honda was finally repaired after around 5 weeks and it was good to drive it again. Unlike some dealers on this forum mine have been very empathetic and supportive and therefore now I feel I should mention them by name - Hendy Honda - near Portsmouth - and all costs have also been met by Honda. However, I still await with interest for DVSA’s findings with Honda.
I owned my 23 plated Jazz Advance few weeks now and love it. (Ex demo 1500 miles when bought) now done 3000 miles and in for first its first annual service next week. I have another two years Honda warranty but I will most likely buy extended warranty for another 3 years… making 6 years.. peace mind really. Not so much because of this issue, but other issues that may surface when you drive car designed like an Apple macIf your Jazz is not manufactured btwn 2/7/2018 and 15/9/2022 you are less likely to experience this fault (my understanding). God luck !!
I owned my 23 plated Jazz Advance few weeks now and love it. (Ex demo 1500 miles when bought) now done 3000 miles and in for first its first annual service next week. I have another two years Honda warranty but I will most likely buy extended warranty for another 3 years… making 6 years.. peace mind really. Not so much because of this issue, but other issues that may surface when you drive car designed like an Apple macIf your Jazz is not manufactured btwn 2/7/2018 and 15/9/2022 you are less likely to experience this fault (my understanding). God luck !!
As far as I hear from Japan, Honda has switched the component manufacturer from Keisan (京三製作所）to somebody else. So, no repeat of the same problem, I guess. BTW, Stoneacre has quoted a staggering £2,021.63 (w/VAT or W/O I don't know) for the replacement Simulator before labour.
If it is the same part are you just looking at same potential scenario again a few years down the line…. I have failed to see a post with this, apologise if I have missed it.
BTW, Stoneacre has quoted a staggering £2,021.63 (w/VAT or W/O I don't know) for the replacement Simulator before labour.
A question for the guys who have had the repair, have they simply replaced ‘like for like’ or is it a new modified part?
If it is the same part are you just looking at same potential scenario again a few years down the line…. I have failed to see a post with this, apologise if I have missed it.
I owned my 23 plated Jazz Advance few weeks now and love it. (Ex demo 1500 miles when bought) now done 3000 miles and in for first its first annual service next week. I have another two years Honda warranty but I will most likely buy extended warranty for another 3 years… making 6 years.. peace mind really. Not so much because of this issue, but other issues that may surface when you drive car designed like an Apple mac
My faulty brake simulator was recently replaced by a local Honda garage but I have no idea whether this was a part that has been modified to prevent a future occurrence of the fault and neither does the garage that fitted it. However, I don’t intend to hang on to the car long enough to find out. I will be trading it for a Kia in the near future.
I also have Jazz Advance, July23 reg. currently on 7000 miles. I'm very happy with it and would happily buy another one.I am still happy with my Jazz and HR-V both. However Honda UK's customer service policy for not filing Product Recall on this subject is the last straw in my case. I never felt previously Manufacturer's Warranty so vital, to make my life stress-free. Imagine, my Jazz would have developed this fault 3 months earlier within warranty period (or product recalled).........haha
I frequently read in Which? magazine about people who have managed to get companies to act FOC for certain product failures up to 6 years
I wonder how that translates to this obvious manufacturing fault
I frequently read in Which? magazine about people who have managed to get companies to act FOC for certain product failures up to 6 years
I wonder how that translates to this obvious manufacturing fault
The email I got from Honda UK said this is "not classified by Honda as a manufacturing defect". I am challenging that statement, because Honda UK and Honda Japan have taken somewhat inconsistent stances on the question whether it is a manufacturing defect that caused these "simulator" failures. Even to a non-expert like me it looks like a manufacturing defect, walks like a manufacturing defect, quacks like a manufacturing defect etc.
I am still waiting for a substantive response to my escalation of the claim against Honda UK for hire car charges that I was forced to pay while my Jazz was waiting to be repaired for 3 weeks under warranty, through no fault of mine.
Mitsubishi pulled out of the UK and European car markets a few years ago (and might return with a couple of re-badged Renaults) so I am wondering if Honda might be about to pull out as well. If that is the case it might explain why Honda UK is resisting my claim, and is showing an inconsistent approach to dealing with other claims relating to the same failed brake simulators.
I was a loyal Honda fan, having had 2 Honda motorbikes, an early Civic, and am now on my 2nd Jazz. After being treated like this by Honda UK, Toyota or Kia now look more appealing for my next car.
You may be right about Honda planning to pull out of the UK market. Judging by the appalling way that they have handled the brake fault problem they clearly don’t care about their reputation any more.
So if the premature failure of the brake simulator isnt a manufacturing defect then its therefore an engineering design failure .. arguably worse from hondas perspective as it makes them more liable .blaming the defect on the sub contractor who makes the part removes the stress from honda . Failures have occured at low mileages and no one has yet covered distances aporoaching 100k in a mark 4 jazz - it doesnt appear to be failure after x thousand presses of the brake pedal so nothing is wearing out as such .
Could it be that the part is more likely to fail with lack of use (eg like a/c) and is seizing up? It seems odd that low mileage cars seem to be affected.So if the premature failure of the brake simulator isnt a manufacturing defect then its therefore an engineering design failure .. arguably worse from hondas perspective as it makes them more liable .blaming the defect on the sub contractor who makes the part removes the stress from honda . Failures have occured at low mileages and no one has yet covered distances aporoaching 100k in a mark 4 jazz - it doesnt appear to be failure after x thousand presses of the brake pedal so nothing is wearing out as such .
Interestingly, the part is failing after under less duress than a standard cars braking system.. as we all know that the regen system allows you to drive smoothly WITHOUT using the brakes as much.
The Brake operating simulator, manufactured btwn 2/7/18 n 15/9/22 by Keisan, have got excess oil in process, which in time seep into the circuit board corroding the pressure sensor inside. The corrosion occurs by time not by use unlike aircon. So, I think its a ticking time bomb for most of us but some lucky guys may escape from it. The affected Simulators are widely used in CR-V, HR-V, Jazz, etc you name it.Fortunately, my 22 HR-V has a 5 year warranty.
Like many others, I’m concerned every time I get in the car now.I changed my 70 plate Crosstar a couple of weeks ago, had brake fluid replaced last August and brakes were fine when I p/ex it. Didn't affect the trade in price.
So far have had the passenger side wing mirror problem and front windscreen washer replaced.
Had Honda Jazz for many years now and all been super reliable, mine is a Crosstar 20 plate so would be interested if anyone else is so far trouble free.
Off topic I know, our a/c packed up, apparently it's a leak at the condenser, Honda build quality isn't what it was.I had the same thing on my Crosstar last summer, replaced under warranty but it took several months to get the part.
I presume the part will be coming from the UK.
...you have that nagging doubt when you go out to the car that it might happen.
...you have that nagging doubt when you go out to the car that it might happen.
Wasn't it Seneca who said: "We suffer more in imagination than in reality.”?
Meaning, we spend so much time worried about how bad things are going to be, that we actually torture ourselves more than the thing we’re worried about ever could (that is, if it happens at all).
I just enjoy driving the Jazz. If something goes wrong, it's early enough to worry, right?
Same happened to my Jazz last summer. Took over two months for the replacement condenser to arrive so we endured the hottest part of the summer without airccon. This is my seventh Honda and definitely the most unreliable. I will be trading it in for a Kia very soon.Off topic I know, our a/c packed up, apparently it's a leak at the condenser, Honda build quality isn't what it was.I had the same thing on my Crosstar last summer, replaced under warranty but it took several months to get the part.
Same happened to my Jazz last summer. Took over two months for the replacement condenser to arrive so we endured the hottest part of the summer without airccon. This is my seventh Honda and definitely the most unreliable. I will be trading it in for a Kia very soon.Off topic I know, our a/c packed up, apparently it's a leak at the condenser, Honda build quality isn't what it was.I had the same thing on my Crosstar last summer, replaced under warranty but it took several months to get the part.
...you have that nagging doubt when you go out to the car that it might happen.
Wasn't it Seneca who said: "We suffer more in imagination than in reality.”?
Meaning, we spend so much time worried about how bad things are going to be, that we actually torture ourselves more than the thing we’re worried about ever could (that is, if it happens at all).
I just enjoy driving the Jazz. If something goes wrong, it's early enough to worry, right?
On the Facebook Jazz eHEV Owners UK page, this has been discussed many times. There is a person who was in the process of buying a low mileage 23 Crosstar, but was concerned after reading about the brake failure. So much so, she asked the dealer. I quote from her post:
I did actually ask them about the brake sensor problem. It WILL be covered by Honda AND there WILL eventually be a recall issued but the retailer assured me that I would not be paying a fortune for a known problem. That said, I did take out the extended warranty and a service plan.
On the Facebook Jazz eHEV Owners UK page, this has been discussed many times. There is a person who was in the process of buying a low mileage 23 Crosstar, but was concerned after reading about the brake failure. So much so, she asked the dealer. I quote from her post:
I did actually ask them about the brake sensor problem. It WILL be covered by Honda AND there WILL eventually be a recall issued but the retailer assured me that I would not be paying a fortune for a known problem. That said, I did take out the extended warranty and a service plan.
Was this in writing? It was probably a salesman who she was speaking to. Would you really take that as Honda's position?
I jumped (out of Honda) before I was pushed. Reading the various fora, I saw that Honda reliability was not as it used to be. Although to be fair I have never had any problems with my 8 Hondas going back 23 years. Latterly, I haven't kept them long enough for anything to go wrong!Same happened to my Jazz last summer. Took over two months for the replacement condenser to arrive so we endured the hottest part of the summer without air-con. This is my seventh Honda and definitely the most unreliable. I will be trading it in for a Kia very soon.Off topic I know, our a/c packed up, apparently it's a leak at the condenser, Honda build quality isn't what it was.I had the same thing on my Crosstar last summer, replaced under warranty but it took several months to get the part.
Honda sells over 1 million cars each year in the US.I like to be a leader, rather than a follower, ;D hence I pulled my Honda plug last July for various reasons mentioned in other posts,
Honda profits are growing strongly.
The EU is a sideshow with punitive regulations - see EV requirements. Honda sales have nearly halved in 4 years.
The UK is a smaller sideshow with EU regulations .
Honda's BEV sales are largely expensive and uncompetitive in the EU.
Plug pulling time soon.
I pulled my Honda plug last July for various reasons mentioned in other posts,
Once my new house DIY is complete I'm selling mine, hopefully before next insurance due date in April 25The belt in oil is used by several companies, and they are all turning out to be utter disasters. They should stick to proven technology. As you say, wear and tear and they're off the hook in Europe. I think they've all looked long and hard at how VAG have got away with building some appalling machines (early dsg, timing chains, EA189 fiasco, Columbus head units etc the list is very long!) and treating their customers poorly outside of warranty to no detriment to their market share. BM and their N47 engine timing chains is another text book case of same.
The whole car scene is now a nightmare with new prices and insurance and some dealers arguing there is no underlying problems ala our MK4 Jazz and the 2017 Civic rubber timing belts
"You're the only one we've heard of" "Wear and tear, you'll need to pay"
With all due respect to my learned friend Lord Voltermore::-[.I agree I have taken a simplistic view and maybe not fully aware of exactly where the bucks stop. Honda are ultimately responsible for their contract,and any stinginess and unfair get out clauses, .Its Hondas business future and profitability that will suffer the consequences of any damage to their reputation for reliability and customer care. A strange attitude for a company who use a (past?) reputation to charge premium prices .
What sort of mileage are we talking about?.
Sign of the times?
Bristol Honda (part of the HSH Motor Group) has sent me an email announcing that it has added 2 new franchises - OMODA and JAECOO.
I hadn't heard of them. Google tells me that these are relatively new brands of SUV, from the Chery car maker owned by the Chinese state. Chery also has a JV manufacturing Jaguars and Land Rovers in China.
In addition to HSH's Honda, Mitsubishi*, MG and GWM franchises.
Honda beware. Honda cars (including used cars) are likely too expensive to be competitive against these Chinese imports. I agree with posters like Lord Voltermore that Honda is trading on a past reputation for reliability and low running costs, which is why it appeals mainly to the older generation in the UK. Honda doesn't seem to care about preserving that reputation. Honda is taking UK customer brand loyalty for granted.
Based on my experience of the Mk 4 Jazz, build quality and reliability seem rather average. Our previous Mk2 Jazz had zero issues during 10 years ownership (except for the Takata airbag recall). Customer relations are going down the drain. This is not going to end well.
[*Mitsubishi already having pulled out of the UK. Is Honda about to do the same?]
Tox Laximus - sorry to read that you are the latest Jazz owner to join the brake simulator failure club.
Is your Jazz still covered by the warranty? Much will depend on that. I hope your dealer lets you have a loan car.
If you have read the entire thread you will have seen that Honda (UK)'s customer relations and dealer customer care of suffering Jazz owners is inconsistent to say the least. Full reimbursement of repair cost and car hire on a goodwill basis at the generous end of the scale, and outright rejection of claims or somewhat limited contributions at the other end. Somewhere in the middle lies actual warranty repairs.
Good luck.
Been posted before, and it is on other Honda owner groups.
Since this concerns brakes, shouldn't DVSA insist on a recall?DVSA dont regard it as a serious fault if ,among other things, you are warned about it by warning lights. :o
Since this concerns brakes, shouldn't DVSA insist on a recall?DVSA dont regard it as a serious fault if ,among other things, you are warned about it by warning lights. :o
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect
Yes, I had already seen that on their website, but the problem concerns brakes. And brakes are pretty important. Who knows what might happen?
Yes, I had already seen that on their website, but the problem concerns brakes. And brakes are pretty important. Who knows what might happen?
I think DVSA's stance is that you get the warning of the failure before you drive, therefore it's not a safety issue. Braking performance is irrelevant if the car is stationary. Anyone who ignores that warning and drives off is just plain stupid, and you can't legislate for that. No-one has reported a failure whist driving (?), which definitely would be a safety issue.
Am I getting the wrong impression ?
Looking at the posts it seems to me that failures are mostly occuring just into year 3 shortly after a brake fluid change during service ?
As posted a few times, mileage is unimportant
Just a clarification on the last 27 pages of chat - does anyone know the exact statistics on the brake simulator failure?
ie. out of how many cars produced in 2020 and separately in 2021 has the failure occurred (what percentage of cars sold each year have failed)? What is the average mileage at failure (or range of mileages). What is the time period range from new before the failure occurs?
I realise these stats might all be in the Honda world and not public, and may well not be available.
Would be very useful to know OR we will have to wait in ignorance for the hammer to drop :(
If it happens to your car, presumably your car has to be taken to a Honda dealer on a flatbed lorry or similar vehicle and you need to get a taxi home. You will then be without a car until it is fixed.
For me the nightmare scenario is something vital, like a hospital appointment or even picking up a grandchild from school and the damn thing occurring in the drive.
It could happen in a petrol station, motorway services or another car park where there is a time limit or which closes at a certain time.
Just a clarification on the last 27 pages of chat - does anyone know the exact statistics on the brake simulator failure?
ie. out of how many cars produced in 2020 and separately in 2021 has the failure occurred (what percentage of cars sold each year have failed)? What is the average mileage at failure (or range of mileages). What is the time period range from new before the failure occurs?
I realise these stats might all be in the Honda world and not public, and may well not be available.
Would be very useful to know OR we will have to wait in ignorance for the hammer to drop :(
Just a clarification on the last 27 pages of chat - does anyone know the exact statistics on the brake simulator failure?
ie. out of how many cars produced in 2020 and separately in 2021 has the failure occurred (what percentage of cars sold each year have failed)? What is the average mileage at failure (or range of mileages). What is the time period range from new before the failure occurs?
I realise these stats might all be in the Honda world and not public, and may well not be available.
Would be very useful to know OR we will have to wait in ignorance for the hammer to drop :(
I to, would like to know actual numbers of failures, it seems to me that the actual percentage is probably far less than this post would suggest.
My dealer, Listers-Honda of Stratford-on-avon, have had only one vehicle returned for remedial work and that was an Electric Honda car.
Perhaps someone can tell us how old the newest vehicle is, which has been affected by this problem.
This post seems to suggest that the problem is limited 21 and 22 plate vehicles, I’m not aware of any 23 plate vehicles affected, unless anyone knows different?.
Would those who drive on the right side of the road be lucky?
You're right! I just searched the Honda Jazz Forum of MOTORTALK (German): No one reports this problem!
Would those who drive on the right side of the road be lucky?
Even though I don't live in Germany I find this quite re-assuring ;D
Going down the left/right rabbit hole and speculating wildly with zero evidence, could it be due to a faulty batch of these products fitted to Japanese Honda hybrids (they drive on the left) and the UK and others. My hair brained theory would only hold up if right hand/left hand drive cars were produced in batches.
I am off to lie down in a darkened room ;D
There was me worrying about buying a Crosstar a few pages back only to see HR-Vs are affected - I have a 22 HR-V and that thing has behaved questionably already with other things 😫
There was me worrying about buying a Crosstar a few pages back only to see HR-Vs are affected - I have a 22 HR-V and that thing has behaved questionably already with other things 😫
What issues have you had?
This is off topic on an already long post. But I dont think it is a fault at all, and need not add to reliability concerns.
Car started on its own. The neighbour came to tell us. We were in the house. :o I was blaming my husband for perhaps sitting on a key or something. He wasn’t.
Then a few hours later all the windows came down. In the pouring rain. Lovely. Kid spotted it when closing her curtains.
As a frequent, nay obsessive car cleaner, I can testify to the car unlocking and locking itself during a wash. I kind of thought it was because the keys were in my pocket and the buttons were being accidentally pressed but even if I put the keys on a nearby window sill it still happens although not as much.
I sacked the window sill idea when I left the keys on the window sill once after washing. An open invitation to steal it!
As a frequent, nay obsessive car cleaner, I can testify to the car unlocking and locking itself during a wash. I kind of thought it was because the keys were in my pocket and the buttons were being accidentally pressed but even if I put the keys on a nearby window sill it still happens although not as much.
I sacked the window sill idea when I left the keys on the window sill once after washing. An open invitation to steal it!
All export car makers make cars for different markets in batches: there are specification differences between markets - so parts are different. Easier to run assembly lines with all UK cars, then all Australian etc.Cars are generally built as individual units not in batches. Each car down the assembly line has a build spec and parts are delivered to the line for that specific car . The next car can be completely different, country, colour, trim level, LHD/RHD whatever.
My Honda dealer lent us a £50,000 courtesy car (2024 CR-V ADVANCE) while the Jazz is waiting for the simulator part, today they rang and mentioned a meeting in which all present agreed to a recall, they are most probably blowing smoke up our tail pipe in an attempt to keep us happy and quiet.
It's a shame it won't work. :P
My Honda dealer lent us a £50,000 courtesy car (2024 CR-V ADVANCE) while the Jazz is waiting for the simulator part, today they rang and mentioned a meeting in which all present agreed to a recall, they are most probably blowing smoke up our tail pipe in an attempt to keep us happy and quiet.
It's a shame it won't work. :P
My Honda dealer lent us a £50,000 courtesy car (2024 CR-V ADVANCE) while the Jazz is waiting for the simulator part, today they rang and mentioned a meeting in which all present agreed to a recall, they are most probably blowing smoke up our tail pipe in an attempt to keep us happy and quiet.
It's a shame it won't work. :P
Most of the comments on here about this issue are about the way Honda are treating their customers. In this case, you have a free loan car, and they are telling you about a recall which implies the repair will be FoC. Sure, it would be nice if you hadn't had the failure, but "sh*t happens". It sounds as if you are being treated reasonably well, so I don't understand your parting comment. What more do you want?
My concern is we don’t actually know the mode of failure of the brake simulator. Can its failure cause the braking to be affected in normal use and prevent a normal braking stoo ? Or does the car electronics get the instruction not to allow the brakes to be used on the next journey -hence the warning lights ? Perhaps honda have demonstrated to DVLA it cannot fail to cause a disrupted brake pedal when the car is in motion ? If they have then honda should issue a statement to owners saying the failure of the simulator module wont cause instant brake failure during normal driving and braking . It does make a big difference in my view knowing that to be the case if it is !
Tox Laximus-
Since your car has caused a brake problem whilst driving it would be worth letting DVSA know by filling in the appropriate forms if you haven't already since they are still prepared to gather further evidence.
I am looking at reserving a 70 plate Crosstar this week, and it’s my biggest concern. Worth taking the risk? It’s only my second car (second jazz)If you have the option it would be better to get one of the refresh models (eg Crosstar Advance) as it looks as though they don't have the issue, and you'd also have the reassurance of some warranty. Alternatively find a dealer who will give you a year's warranty on the car. I had a 70 plate Crosstar until a few months ago and didn't have any problems but I might just have been lucky.
If they’re doing a recall and action is being taken I’ll be a bit more relieved to be fair.
. how many people here are more concerned by hondas attitude to the problem and reluctance to resolve rather than the part failing ?+1 for this.I accept mechanical issues are inevitable in all makes of car. Its Hondas apparent attitude to UK customers that concerns me more . I can understand that an immediate recall worldwide of all cars potentially at risk may cause short term shortage of parts and suitable repair facilities/technicians. But Honda seem to have given priority to markets they value most, and/ or where technicians are more plentiful and labour costs lower.
It appears that from the Jazz FB page a recall letter has been sent to Honda Fit owners in Taiwan …..just need Honda to do the HONOURABLE same in the UK.
See attached (you’ll need to log in to Clubjazz)
Agree with madasafish completely. It makes it worse that, in some countries, recalls have happened. Have Honda UK got too much autonomy?
Regarding’Waffle” on this subject please see “ Annual Report and FinancialWhich makes interesting reading. The financial numbers indicate a profit margin of about 1%. However, I suspect that's because the real profit is built into the price that Honda Japan charges Honda Europe for the items to be sold.
Statements” for “Honda Europe Limited” For the year ended 31 March 2023
https://www.honda.co.uk/content/dam/central/cars/sustainability/governance/Honda-Motor-Europe-Limited-31-03-2023-Final-Signed.pdf
Regarding’Waffle” on this subject please see “ Annual Report and FinancialWhich makes interesting reading. The financial numbers indicate a profit margin of about 1%. However, I suspect that's because the real profit is built into the price that Honda Japan charges Honda Europe for the items to be sold.
Statements” for “Honda Europe Limited” For the year ended 31 March 2023
https://www.honda.co.uk/content/dam/central/cars/sustainability/governance/Honda-Motor-Europe-Limited-31-03-2023-Final-Signed.pdf
Sadly Honda Europe have not learned by tbe coroporate failures of diesel emmissions - huge litigation costs for VW followed by the rest of the VAG group. Ford paying dearly for their ecoboost engine failure because of the poor design of the wet oil belts . The longer the period of time honda europe take in acting the bigger the compensation bill will be in addition to more honda customers who wont buy honda again. Clearly those markets in asia have had replacement brake simulators as they are closer to honda japan than our honda Europrean circus is .. its a completely known failure point. Sadly its going to take some accidents and fatalities before they act !VAG have been treating their customers abysmally for the last 15+yrs. Still not sure how they are seen as a premium product.
Too late.
No more Hondas for me - ever.
I assume a 2024 MY should be OK and be fitted with an updated component, pretty obvious if Honda is rectifying faulty brakes on earlier models, I hope this is the case as I am awaiting delivery of a new Advance
Just wanted to add my +1 >:(
Have just become a victim of this in the Netherlands with my Jazz hybrid mk4 of 3 years and 6 months old with 43,000 km. Dealer said he did his utmost to get some compensation from Honda and that they offered €1100 which apparently is the material cost ex VAT. I'm still up for €1300. I protested, and we're talking again on Monday but he gave me no real chance: "because I already tried hard." Info from this forum, articles and videos might be good bargaining tools.
Edni, Make sure you contact Honda Europe Customer service and if necessary go to their directors. UK/Europe Customer Service did cover all of my expenses on a 2020 Jazz. Not sure if you have read all of this thread - it will take you quite a long time - but several of us have been successful in getting Honda to cover it. Of course, as you may have seen there were recalls in China and Japan and eventually Honda should surely follow this in UK and rest of Europe, but you shouldn't wait for this!
Thank you to our friend from Utrecht on reporting back about his progressive experience on the brake failure.
To date we still can’t get a simple answer from Honda-EU staff and Directors regarding any CONSISTENT RESPONSE to costings for out of warranty claims for this MANUFACTURER FAULT and owners are getting fed up trying.
Is it any wonder that Honda and its dealers are offering CASH incentives to customers to upgrade their existing vehicles. Folk are holding off as the cars have now become FAR TOO EXPENSIVE and customers confidence in RELIABILITY has gone out of the window!
From what I've picked up, right or wrong, is that after the third service brake fluid change is when it seems to be happening
My third service is next Tuesday :(
From what I've picked up, right or wrong, is that after the third service brake fluid change is when it seems to be happening
My third service is next Tuesday :(
I have just had my 2nd service, and noted that it was at the 3rd that the brake fluid would be changed. It will be interesting to see what happens after you have had this change.. I really hope that it doesn't make any difference for you.
Being the owner of a 22 registered Honda jazz crosstar I've been following the brake simulator problem from the first page of the reported fault. Although my own car hasn't (yet) and might never suffer from this issue. I'm starting to become concerned about the brake problem as the warranty is coming to an end.Colstarr, I have on order a 2024 Jazz Advance and, like you, have been following this topic and my thoughts are that Honda will have the problem sorted with later models, maybe just a bad batch have got through on early models, there have been recalls in other countrys with modified parts fitted to cure the fault, surely (hopefully) Honda will have introduced these modified parts to the production lines, when I take delivery (not long now) of my Jazz I will ask if this issue has been resolved
Aside from a passenger side mirror motor replacement ( a known defect) and a camera recall its been very reliable , my car's warranty expires next May.
And quite honestly I thought 8 months later from the first reported faults there would have been a recall by now.
Unfortunately we are still being kept in the dark about this problem.
I have sent emails to Honda Customer care , with no real clarity on this problem in their replies.
I could pay to extend the warranty to cover this brake simulator problem, you would normally buy extra warranty to cover the unexpected happening,
But this is a known defect that Honda should be recalling and correcting .
So I have decided to trade my crosstar in just before the warranty ends.
It's an expensive risk I'm not prepared to take.
Would I buy another Honda?, definitely not , unless clarity of what cars are affected by this problem.
Customer care is now ,a couldn't care less
Keep them in the dark and feed them BS attitude.
This issue affects all mk4 owners because no one knows 100% if their cars are or aren't affected.
Hopefully a very small batch of cars are affected , and most owners will not suffer this problem .
But that not knowing if your car is one of the unlucky one's will always be there.
Being the owner of a 22 registered Honda jazz crosstar I've been following the brake simulator problem from the first page of the reported fault. Although my own car hasn't (yet) and might never suffer from this issue. I'm starting to become concerned about the brake problem as the warranty is coming to an end.Colstarr, I have on order a 2024 Jazz Advance and, like you, have been following this topic and my thoughts are that Honda will have the problem sorted with later models, maybe just a bad batch have got through on early models, there have been recalls in other countrys with modified parts fitted to cure the fault, surely (hopefully) Honda will have introduced these modified parts to the production lines, when I take delivery (not long now) of my Jazz I will ask if this issue has been resolved
Aside from a passenger side mirror motor replacement ( a known defect) and a camera recall its been very reliable , my car's warranty expires next May.
And quite honestly I thought 8 months later from the first reported faults there would have been a recall by now.
Unfortunately we are still being kept in the dark about this problem.
I have sent emails to Honda Customer care , with no real clarity on this problem in their replies.
I could pay to extend the warranty to cover this brake simulator problem, you would normally buy extra warranty to cover the unexpected happening,
But this is a known defect that Honda should be recalling and correcting .
So I have decided to trade my crosstar in just before the warranty ends.
It's an expensive risk I'm not prepared to take.
Would I buy another Honda?, definitely not , unless clarity of what cars are affected by this problem.
Customer care is now ,a couldn't care less
Keep them in the dark and feed them BS attitude.
This issue affects all mk4 owners because no one knows 100% if their cars are or aren't affected.
Hopefully a very small batch of cars are affected , and most owners will not suffer this problem .
But that not knowing if your car is one of the unlucky one's will always be there.
Its a great pity honda can engineer an outstanding hybrid drive train and all the the very hi tech knowledge from hondas F1 hybrids along with 20 year’s evolution of fine tuning the tech ! To then have an isolated problem with the brake simulator and fail to resolve it is at complete odds with where honda should be give the effort to get to todays clever hybrids ..seriously honda you absolutely know what needs to do reengineering the brake simulator never mind just swapping them all out at no cost or inconvenience to your customers . Honda europe is staffed by morons who claim the brake simulator failure isnt a safety defect .. lets see that one stand up in court . Would volvo corporately stand up and say that !!!I would think in the countries where there has been a recall a modified brake simulator will have been fitted
Being the owner of a 22 registered Honda jazz crosstar I've been following the brake simulator problem from the first page of the reported fault. Although my own car hasn't (yet) and might never suffer from this issue. I'm starting to become concerned about the brake problem as the warranty is coming to an end.
Aside from a passenger side mirror motor replacement ( a known defect) and a camera recall its been very reliable , my car's warranty expires next May.
And quite honestly I thought 8 months later from the first reported faults there would have been a recall by now.
Unfortunately we are still being kept in the dark about this problem.
I have sent emails to Honda Customer care , with no real clarity on this problem in their replies.
I could pay to extend the warranty to cover this brake simulator problem, you would normally buy extra warranty to cover the unexpected happening,
But this is a known defect that Honda should be recalling and correcting .
So I have decided to trade my crosstar in just before the warranty ends.
It's an expensive risk I'm not prepared to take.
Would I buy another Honda?, definitely not , unless clarity of what cars are affected by this problem.
Customer care is now ,a couldn't care less
Keep them in the dark and feed them BS attitude.
This issue affects all mk4 owners because no one knows 100% if their cars are or aren't affected.
Hopefully a very small batch of cars are affected , and most owners will not suffer this problem .
But that not knowing if your car is one of the unlucky one's will always be there.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/ask-the-expert-hondas-brake-system-failure-recall-in-japan/
I wonder how many of those affected by this have reported it here https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect
I wonder how many of those affected by this have reported it here https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect
This has been referred to before. From gov.uk :
A serious safety defect is something ...... that happens suddenly and without warning.
Things are not classed as a serious safety defect if ...... you’re warned about them by warning lights, noticeable changes in handling and unusual noises.
So far, all reported failures are preceeded by warning lights and messages, so probably don't meet the DVSA criteria for a "serious safety defect"
Please can I ask how when ordering a new 2024 Honda Jazz Elegance in Red one can ensure the interior especially the cabin roof interior will be light grey and the cloth seats grey ?
It's impossible to find a Jazz elegance on a Vertu Honda dealership locally.
The only new models available to test drive are the Advance or the Sport.
There appears to be a plethora of used Ex and Cross stars with 20 21 22 reg on the lot.
Should I assume these are models that folks. have traded in as they approach end of warranty /PCP by folks who are worried that their model may succumb to the brake problem ?
Our 2009 plate Honda Jazz manual/ petrol was written off after being hit head on by a hit and run driver whilst parked outside our home.
So we are flung into the predicament of having to buy a new car before Winter comes.
Also seriously worried about possible lack of care from Honda after sales service
Can anyone advise ?
Thankyou for any feedback
Do we know how many jazz were sold in Europe and how many had problems? 10 jazz, 100 jazz, 1000 jazz?
Do we know how many jazz were sold in Europe and how many had problems? 10 jazz, 100 jazz, 1000 jazz?
It's a good question and one I asked myself a few months ago. How many cars will develop this fault? In short, is this a fault I am likely to get? One in ten, one in five, every car! The answer must be out there.
To date there are 8-10 defective cars.
A very small percentage compared to the total number of cars sold.
Anyone who has different information should mention it.
I’m sorry but Honda U.K. /Europe have made a conscious decision not to do a recall hoping on balance what they save financially will outweigh what they lose in customer satisfaction.
I can't understand why I would have to go to the garage, have to change something, on my car, because it has been a problem on 10-12 cars, but not on my car.
My brother had a kidney transplant, do I have, to have a transplant too because I am his brother?
Please can I ask how when ordering a new 2024 Honda Jazz Elegance in Red one can ensure the interior especially the cabin roof interior will be light grey and the cloth seats grey ?
It's impossible to find a Jazz elegance on a Vertu Honda dealership locally.
The only new models available to test drive are the Advance or the Sport.
There appears to be a plethora of used Ex and Cross stars with 20 21 22 reg on the lot.
Should I assume these are models that folks. have traded in as they approach end of warranty /PCP by folks who are worried that their model may succumb to the brake problem ?
......
Also seriously worried about possible lack of care from Honda after sales service
Can anyone advise ?
Thankyou for any feedback
[
I wouldn't know about the Elegance interior, but there is a red Crosstar in my dealers and it has the dark interior and seat fabric. My understanding was, the dark cars came with grey interiors and the light ones got black interiors. I have the EX Style in blue beam metallic, and it is in grey. A sunlight model I looked at came with black.
As to the plethora of 21/22 plates on the forecourt, maybe just people changing at the end of the lease/finance deal.
If you are concerned, ask the dealer and put him on the spot. Surely now, the simulator failure is common knowledge amongst dealerships.
Thankyou to everyone for their feedback
Have today reserved a used 22 plate Honda jazz hybrid which has less than 6000 miles on the clock and the top EX spec with heated seats etc.It is also the red colour we wanted and has silver gray cloth super comfy seats.So taking a calculated risk that this used car won't succumb to the brake servo problem.Only time will tell...
Well, they have certainly made a decision not to do a recall. And from this forum, Facebook and other media they do have unsatisfied customers. Perhaps you can apply alternative rationale for their decision?I’m sorry but Honda U.K. /Europe have made a conscious decision not to do a recall hoping on balance what they save financially will outweigh what they lose in customer satisfaction.
Sorry to ask, but is Saycol perhaps a member of the board of Honda U.K. /Europe? That position makes it possible for him to give us the above information first hand? Or is this just ehhh....(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c078.gif)
I wonder how many of those affected by this have reported it here https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect
This has been referred to before. From gov.uk :
A serious safety defect is something ...... that happens suddenly and without warning.
Things are not classed as a serious safety defect if ...... you’re warned about them by warning lights, noticeable changes in handling and unusual noises.
So far, all reported failures are preceeded by warning lights and messages, so probably don't meet the DVSA criteria for a "serious safety defect"
Honda have also stated in the letter reproduced here …
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=16448.msg144822#msg144822
… that this is not a safety issue.
“… we want to reassure you that this is not a safety defect. The braking system will automatically default to a fail-safe mode which meets the braking distance regulations and ensure your vehicle can be stopped safely.
We recognise that the braking sensation will feel different, but the fail-safe mode means that your vehicle will operate with the required braking distance and stop.”
Presumably that’s what they’ll have told DVSA.
Being the owner of a 22 registered Honda jazz crosstar I've been following the brake simulator problem from the first page of the reported fault. Although my own car hasn't (yet) and might never suffer from this issue. I'm starting to become concerned about the brake problem as the warranty is coming to an end.
Aside from a passenger side mirror motor replacement ( a known defect) and a camera recall its been very reliable , my car's warranty expires next May.
And quite honestly I thought 8 months later from the first reported faults there would have been a recall by now.
Unfortunately we are still being kept in the dark about this problem.
I have sent emails to Honda Customer care , with no real clarity on this problem in their replies.
I could pay to extend the warranty to cover this brake simulator problem, you would normally buy extra warranty to cover the unexpected happening,
But this is a known defect that Honda should be recalling and correcting .
So I have decided to trade my crosstar in just before the warranty ends.
It's an expensive risk I'm not prepared to take.
Would I buy another Honda?, definitely not , unless clarity of what cars are affected by this problem.
Customer care is now ,a couldn't care less
Keep them in the dark and feed them BS attitude.
This issue affects all mk4 owners because no one knows 100% if their cars are or aren't affected.
Hopefully a very small batch of cars are affected , and most owners will not suffer this problem .
But that not knowing if your car is one of the unlucky one's will always be there.
Does this apply to cars which are out of the warranty period?Being the owner of a 22 registered Honda jazz crosstar I've been following the brake simulator problem from the first page of the reported fault. Although my own car hasn't (yet) and might never suffer from this issue. I'm starting to become concerned about the brake problem as the warranty is coming to an end.
Aside from a passenger side mirror motor replacement ( a known defect) and a camera recall its been very reliable , my car's warranty expires next May.
And quite honestly I thought 8 months later from the first reported faults there would have been a recall by now.
Unfortunately we are still being kept in the dark about this problem.
I have sent emails to Honda Customer care , with no real clarity on this problem in their replies.
I could pay to extend the warranty to cover this brake simulator problem, you would normally buy extra warranty to cover the unexpected happening,
But this is a known defect that Honda should be recalling and correcting .
So I have decided to trade my crosstar in just before the warranty ends.
It's an expensive risk I'm not prepared to take.
Would I buy another Honda?, definitely not , unless clarity of what cars are affected by this problem.
Customer care is now ,a couldn't care less
Keep them in the dark and feed them BS attitude.
This issue affects all mk4 owners because no one knows 100% if their cars are or aren't affected.
Hopefully a very small batch of cars are affected , and most owners will not suffer this problem .
But that not knowing if your car is one of the unlucky one's will always be there.
In regards to the brake simulator issue .
Today I received the following email from Honda UK, I hope this will ease any cost concerns owners have on the brake simulator problem . Whilst this does not address what vehicles are affected. At least the cost of the repair is now covered by Honda. Let's hope this brake issue only affects a small amount of cars.
Dear Mr. ***** *****
Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
As a gesture of goodwill, while our analysis is ongoing, we will ensure that the cost of the repair is covered by Honda (UK) and will instruct the retailer accordingly.
We are advising and would encourage any customers who experience the brake simulator concern with their vehicle to please contact their preferred Honda retailer so their vehicle can be booked in for diagnostics and repair. Their Honda retailer will make us aware if your vehicle has been diagnosed with a brake simulator failure.
We hope this provides you with some clarity on the situation however, if you have further questions, please do not hesitate to let us know.
Once again, thank you for contacting Honda (UK).
Kind regards,
Jack January
Customer Relations Specialist
Honda (UK)
Does this apply to cars which are out of the warranty period?Being the owner of a 22 registered Honda jazz crosstar I've been following the brake simulator problem from the first page of the reported fault. Although my own car hasn't (yet) and might never suffer from this issue. I'm starting to become concerned about the brake problem as the warranty is coming to an end.
Aside from a passenger side mirror motor replacement ( a known defect) and a camera recall its been very reliable , my car's warranty expires next May.
And quite honestly I thought 8 months later from the first reported faults there would have been a recall by now.
Unfortunately we are still being kept in the dark about this problem.
I have sent emails to Honda Customer care , with no real clarity on this problem in their replies.
I could pay to extend the warranty to cover this brake simulator problem, you would normally buy extra warranty to cover the unexpected happening,
But this is a known defect that Honda should be recalling and correcting .
So I have decided to trade my crosstar in just before the warranty ends.
It's an expensive risk I'm not prepared to take.
Would I buy another Honda?, definitely not , unless clarity of what cars are affected by this problem.
Customer care is now ,a couldn't care less
Keep them in the dark and feed them BS attitude.
This issue affects all mk4 owners because no one knows 100% if their cars are or aren't affected.
Hopefully a very small batch of cars are affected , and most owners will not suffer this problem .
But that not knowing if your car is one of the unlucky one's will always be there.
In regards to the brake simulator issue .
Today I received the following email from Honda UK, I hope this will ease any cost concerns owners have on the brake simulator problem . Whilst this does not address what vehicles are affected. At least the cost of the repair is now covered by Honda. Let's hope this brake issue only affects a small amount of cars.
Dear Mr. ***** *****
Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
As a gesture of goodwill, while our analysis is ongoing, we will ensure that the cost of the repair is covered by Honda (UK) and will instruct the retailer accordingly.
We are advising and would encourage any customers who experience the brake simulator concern with their vehicle to please contact their preferred Honda retailer so their vehicle can be booked in for diagnostics and repair. Their Honda retailer will make us aware if your vehicle has been diagnosed with a brake simulator failure.
We hope this provides you with some clarity on the situation however, if you have further questions, please do not hesitate to let us know.
Once again, thank you for contacting Honda (UK).
Kind regards,
Jack January
Customer Relations Specialist
Honda (UK)
It’s almost a text book reply on how to say nothing !! I think is complete arrogance- while i intent to write myself inspite of my jazz being ok SO FAR . My concern which i cant ignore is that the brake simulator may fail in use , especially when my wife is jazz driving
Latest patronising response from Honda to further requests for definitive answers to the ongoing Brake Feel Simulator issue……..not impressed!
“ Thank you for contacting Honda UK
Naturally, as a Manufacturer we want you to have the best experience possible with us and it’s disappointing to learn this has not been the case.
At the Customer Relations Department, we manage any contact with the Senior Management Team. Please be assured that Jean-Marc has read your correspondence and has asked me to reply on his behalf.
We would like to apologise for the error in our previous communication and we want to be clear on the delay. Currently our technical specialist team within Honda UK are reviewing all incidents and cases for us to be able to provide an accurate statement to our customers.
Unfortunately, we are unable to give a time scale at this time however, we understand the importance of providing a statement for our customers and we appreciate your patience and understanding.
In the meantime, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Once again, thank you for contacting Honda UK.
Kind regards,
Jack January
Customer Relations Specialist
Honda (UK)
E: customer.headoffice@honda-eu.com
W: www.Honda.co.uk*
It’s a simple matter from a customer perspective in that all folks want us a Free of Charge replacement in the event of the unit failing, don’ t really comprehend the requirement of the Technical Team within Honda UK having to review ALL INCIDENTS AND CASES which will take forever!?
Need to keep the pressure on to resolve this.
Dear Mr. ***** *****
Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
As a gesture of goodwill, while our analysis is ongoing, we will ensure that the cost of the repair is covered by Honda (UK) and will instruct the retailer accordingly.
I have load of stuff about the simulator brake failue, telegraph article, japan and china recall notice etc. here in a old post...
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=16448.msg143306#msg143306It can be printed out and shown to dealers, I think uploading documents has been disabled now?
EDIT: Those don't download anymore, anyone know how to upload stuff?
I am bumping this thread because it has dropped off the first page again.Maybe the moderators could consider making this topic a "sticky"
It is important that it continues to receive views.
So I did ask the service reception staff yesterday if they had encountered the brake simulator issue at Holdcroft Warrington. "I haven't come across it - have you? (asks colleagues at next desks who shake their heads). Decided that it wasn't that scientific a sample!
So I did ask the service reception staff yesterday if they had encountered the brake simulator issue at Holdcroft Warrington. "I haven't come across it - have you? (asks colleagues at next desks who shake their heads). Decided that it wasn't that scientific a sample!I got the same at Western Honda , and I felt they played daft. Of course they knew.
Well done for sticking to your guns.
An NDA is a cheap price for full? settlement
I expect no return comment.
My 2020 Jazz Hev failed today, awaiting test by the dealer tomorrow, but all the dash lights on and the AA guy said prepare yourself for a big bill. Shocking situation for a car with just 27,000 miles on the clock! I've come across an article by a mechanic who believes the servicing procedure is at fault as well as an iffy part (Mine has just had a service, no faults prior to that).
An interesting slant - thanks for posting. Just an impression but I sense that a critical time for failure is just after a service, especially if the brake fluid has been changed. I had a 3 year service on the 15th of October :o
.... I've come across an article by a mechanic who believes the servicing procedure is at fault as well as an iffy part (Mine has just had a service, no faults prior to that).
Wilx, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a recall, If the Jazz is your preference and you are buying from a Honda main dealer I would go ahead, if you see the car you want, get the newest MY you can afford and maybe get assurances from the dealer, or negotiate a Honda warranty to clinch the sale
They also told me there will be a recall in the near future, in the UK. Can't confirm if it will be some Jazzes or all of them, but it's coming.
So I guess I either hold off and see if the recall is done in the next two or three months and then buy, or get a Fabia now.
Wilx.I may be wrong but I thought the Fabia is just a turbo petrol. And maybe even a manual . So you are also comparing obsolete technology with new.LV, the Fabia comes with a 1.0ltr 3 pot turbo or 1.5ltr 4 pot turbo, the 1.0ltr is manual or DSG auto and i think the 1.5ltr is DSG only
I for one ,having experienced the silence, fuel economy , immense torque and ease of driving a hybrid ,would be very reluctant to go back to a conventional car, however good. I dont think I am alone. Hybrids are particularly impressive in urban traffic and the increasingly common stop/start traffic.
I think you will find some issues with all makes of car if you research deep enough ,including VAG/Skoda. The comments from Honda would reassure me.
...
I regularly follow a German forum and it is quite striking that nothing (indeed, nothing) is reported about the infamous brake servo failures. I don't hear anything about it here in Poland either..
Threads in german fora mentioning the letters and the impending recall:
https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/break-simulator-failure-t7851819.html
https://forum-alternative-antriebe.de/index.php?topic=9396.0
...
This is what I'm also reading, but I don't read about one single case of a failing brake simulator...
I just checked the Polish Honda website to see if there is a recall for our car. Not...
I had the letter today saying the E will be fixed free of charge when bits available, but nothing about the Jazz.I expect that the owners of the oldest potentially affected vehicles will be contacted first and at a rate compatible with the speed at which the fault can be fixed. Didn't the airbag replacement process last for several years?
Maybe my Jazz (bought in Sep 22 but with a P model 23 in the VIN) was not affected or another letter will arrive when the system catches up.
I have no idea if Honda have my address, certainly my supplying dealer does but don’t know how that information gets passed to Honda UK
I’m wondering if my ‘23 is affected by this
Pardon my ignorance, but how do those VIN numbers relate/read?
My VIN is JHMGR3890PS205358
Does this fall in Coldstart's list of affected models?
JHMG[3/6]***PS***** = MY 2023
Do we know where the letters come from so we can check if they have our address ?
Pardon my ignorance, but how do those VIN numbers relate/read?
My VIN is JHMGR3890PS205358
Does this fall in Coldstart's list of affected models?JHMG[3/6]***PS***** = MY 2023
It was the 3/6 after the JHMGR that I didn't understand.
Do we know where the letters come from so we can check if they have our address ?
The letter with free repair.
Bugger :'(Don't worry! - The failure (corrosion) takes time (usually about 3+ years) to manifest.
Bugger :'(Don't worry! - The failure (corrosion) takes time (usually about 3+ years) to manifest.
My Honda dealership currently had only one MY 21 (VIN code M) built in 2020 so far.
With a code "P" (meaning MY 2023 - probably built in 2022) you statistically have at least one to two more "good" years!
Time enough for the official recall and replacement of the faulty part.
Apart from the inconvenience of having to bring in the car for one day there will be no (financial) harm done.
@all: Please keep in mind that the VIN pattern I posted only applies to Jazzes!
(the faulty part was also built into other models that I don't track as closely as the Jazz - please forgive my focus)
My Crosstar vin consists of JHMGR----NS------
Honda says the affected (pre-facelift) Jazzes have VINs in the range of:I have a 2022 Jazz with this VIN:
JHMG[3/6]***MS***** = MY 2021
JHMG[3/6]***NS***** = MY 2022
JHMG[3/6]***PS***** = MY 2023
A standard 17-character VIN is structured as follows:
1st character (J): Represents the country of origin. "J" indicates the vehicle was manufactured in Japan.
2nd character (H): Represents the manufacturer. "H" is used for Honda.
3rd character (M): Represents the vehicle type or division. "M" usually indicates passenger vehicles.
4th to 8th characters (GR**)**: These characters represent the model, body type, and engine. In this case, it likely corresponds to a Honda model, such as the Honda Accord (or similar).
9th character (R): This is the check digit used to validate the VIN. It doesn’t provide specific information about the vehicle's characteristics but is important for the VIN's integrity.
10th character (P): Represents the model year. "P" corresponds to the 2023 model year.
11th character (S): Represents the plant code where the vehicle was manufactured. "S" corresponds to one of Honda's production plants, likely in Japan.
12th to 17th characters (****)**: These characters are the serial number or unique identifier for the specific vehicle.
QuoteHonda says the affected (pre-facelift) Jazzes have VINs in the range of:I have a 2022 Jazz with this VIN:
JHMG[3/6]***MS***** = MY 2021
JHMG[3/6]***NS***** = MY 2022
JHMG[3/6]***PS***** = MY 2023
JHMGR****PS******
I assume Im not affected, if the info above is correct?
From the recalls documents on Gov.UK website https://www.check-vehicle-recalls.service.gov.uk/recall-type/vehicle/make (https://www.check-vehicle-recalls.service.gov.uk/recall-type/vehicle/make) R/2024/386 includes the following (build start/end dates)
Jazz E:HEV (29/01/2020 to 02/02/2022)
Civic 5D E:HEV (20/10/2021 to 18/01/2022)
CR-V E:HEV (02/07/2018 to 31/01/2022)
CR-V Hybrid (02/07/2018 to 31/01/2022)
HONDA e (19/07/2019 to 31/01/2022)
HR-V E:HEV (25/01/2021 to 31/01/2022)
Over 45,000 vehicles - may take a while, but the single Civic owner may be OK.
The recall is in several countries so far. The limitimg factor is obviously getting many thousands of the new parts quickly so probably explains the different time scales. Logically they would concentrate in areas with the highest sales of the earliest affected cars first, then work forwards in time scales.
I have an MS and haven’t had anything. Gov.uk shows nothing, and I dunno how Honda would contact me 🤷♀️
OH DEAR!
Massive Honda Fail.
What has happened to their unblemished reliability record.
The DSG, as you say, is horrendous in low speed manoeuvres like parallel or slow garage parkingI agree with Bev regarding hesitation at low speeds but diagree with "horrendous parallel or slow parking manoeuvers" I've owned two VAG DSG's and they were no problem parking as they do "creep", the gearbox failures are not as common now VW sorted the problem in the early DSG's by changing the type of oil used in the box, the transmission in the Jazz takes some beating, smooth and seamless, much like the Toyota Yaris Cross but much more refined
My main aim during the MK4 test drive was to ascertain whether it behaved like a DSG or torque converter box
Thankfully it behaves like a torque converter so you can slow park just using the brake pedal and 'creep'
I have an MS and haven’t had anything. Gov.uk shows nothing, and I dunno how Honda would contact me 🤷♀️
Did you buy the car new, or from a Honda specific dealership?
https://www.check-vehicle-recalls.service.gov.uk/recall-type/vehicle/make
Bugger bugger, looks like I have the brake problem, jazz Crosstar 2020.
VIN JHMGR6880MS200292
Problem started last week, had a circle with ES in the middle followed by circle with EP light up, stopped the car, restarted and it seemed ok but this morning several icons flashed up EP, ES and several others along with the brakes hard to depress.
Contacted Honda’s customer services and they advised me to contact dealer.
Dealer wants the car in to do a diagnostic check which they said if it wasn’t under warranty would be £150.
Glad I took out the extended warranty when I purchased it.
Will have to see what they have to say.
Exactly as expcted, I did a check on my June 2020 Jazz on the Honda UK website's "Product recalls and updates" page and this was the reply "There are currently no active recalls/updates on this vehicle".
On the DVSA website if I check using the reg number option there is no recall listed, but if I use the option where you don't need the reg number the recall IS listed.
It looks like my vehicle hasn't been linked to the recall process yet, which is worrying as it was a very early one. I did ask the garage a few months ago to check if it had any work done on the braking system before I bought it (in 2023) and they said it hadn't.
I'll give it a few weeks and make more enquiries - unless the part fails of course!
Make sure you tell them about the GOV.UK notice, as well as all the forum bumf regarding recall letters some here have had.
I also heard HR-Vs are affected… I have a 2022 plate HR-V also (OMG why me) would this be a 2023 on DVSA though .The DVLA recall information shows that 4674 HR-Vs are affected. I would have thought that number would include all those sold in 2022.
I checked mine - under Jazz e:HEV is states a recall but if you choose Jazz Crosstar it shows a recall for a front wide camera. Surely they are one and the same? Has anyone with a Crosstar had the letter?
I checked mine - under Jazz e:HEV is states a recall but if you choose Jazz Crosstar it shows a recall for a front wide camera. Surely they are one and the same? Has anyone with a Crosstar had the letter?
Please keep in mind that Honda will start the official recall only when the spare parts become available for the specific cars.
(at least that's how they're doing it in Germany and Switzerland)
A premature recall without spare parts would only create (additional) frustration amongst customers as well as dealerships, would'nt it?
Indeed, thank you. Can’t believe it’ll be both my cars 🤣 just my luck.
Indeed, thank you. Can’t believe it’ll be both my cars 🤣 just my luck.
I'm sorry about your misfortune! On the other hand even Honda UK has (finally!) come around to do the repairs free of charge.
I do not know which cars you own (I only follow information about the Jazz) so I wouldn't know if all of your cars are affected.
From my infrormation (for Jazz) only cars from the japanese Suzuka assembly plant during the relevant model years (pre facelift) may be affected (identified by the letter "S" in the 10th position of the VIN).
Thanks to @BigT who started this lenghty thread in the first place, we are meanwhile quite aware that the failure (corrosion) needs some time to develop and it usually affects cars around three years after production.
So, if your cars dont sport "M" in the 9th position you should be in the clear for another year or even a couple of years.
Time enough for Honda to up the supply of spare parts.
Chicksee - in the early days of this problem last year some of us were waiting six or more weeks to get the part but I think it should be considerably quicker now. Check with the garage or Honda UK. The actual job to change the part is, I think, only 2-3 hours labour. I would hope the garage would offer you a courtesy car after getting Honda's permission - although you could contact Honda yourself if needed.
I have no idea if Honda have my address, certainly my supplying dealer does but don’t know how that information gets passed to Honda UK
I’m wondering if my ‘23 is affected by this
If Honda UK works anything like Honda CH all information about modern cars is centralized (why you can access the digital service record (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/digital-service-record.html)).
In Switzerland this includes owner information (I'm getting incentives by mail directly from Honda Switzerland).
Regarding your Jazz: According to my information the facelift Jazzes aren't affected.
Honda says the affected (pre-facelift) Jazzes have VINs in the range of:
JHMG[3/6]***MS***** = MY 2021
JHMG[3/6]***NS***** = MY 2022
JHMG[3/6]***PS***** = MY 2023
(the letters I, O, Q, U, and Z are skipped for whatever reason)
My MY 2024 (produced and bought in 2023) Jazz Advance already has VIN JHMG3***RS***** so it is clearly not affected as Honda have since changed the oil used in the manufacturing process of the brake feel simulator.
Where did you get these VIN ranges from? I've not heard anything about the recall in the Netherlands. I spoke to my local Honda dealer some time back about the brake simulator issues discussed and they weren't even aware. They figured it would just be a UK only issue somehow caused by the right hand drive but I see other people indicate that Honda Spain is also reaching out to them.
I’m getting quite stressed now :(
Having had the break simulator problem and taken it in for repair, (confirmed after diagnostics test) the dealer rang me yesterday to inform me that Honda have informed them that this is not covered by the extended warranty (which I have) but they will be contacting Honda again on Monday and mentioned a possible good will reduction.
I said surely this should be covered under the extra 2 years warranty I have but they said they will come back to me on Monday.
I’m getting quite stressed now :(Never mind the warranty (although this should be covered by the extended warranty) and point out that there's a recall. Is this another dealer who is blissfully unaware of the situation regarding the brake simulator failure?
Having had the break simulator problem and taken it in for repair, (confirmed after diagnostics test) the dealer rang me yesterday to inform me that Honda have informed them that this is not covered by the extended warranty (which I have) but they will be contacting Honda again on Monday and mentioned a possible good will reduction.
I said surely this should be covered under the extra 2 years warranty I have but they said they will come back to me on Monday.
I’m getting quite stressed now :(
Having had the break simulator problem and taken it in for repair, (confirmed after diagnostics test) the dealer rang me yesterday to inform me that Honda have informed them that this is not covered by the extended warranty (which I have) but they will be contacting Honda again on Monday and mentioned a possible good will reduction.
I said surely this should be covered under the extra 2 years warranty I have but they said they will come back to me on Monday.
I’m getting quite stressed now :(
Having had the break simulator problem and taken it in for repair, (confirmed after diagnostics test) the dealer rang me yesterday to inform me that Honda have informed them that this is not covered by the extended warranty (which I have) but they will be contacting Honda again on Monday and mentioned a possible good will reduction.
I said surely this should be covered under the extra 2 years warranty I have but they said they will come back to me on Monday.
I hate to show my ignorance, but need to know as a friend is about to by a Jazz.This may help https://www.lsp-ias.com/our-products/pedal-feel-emulator the Honda 'E' was also affected. I don't think the brakes fail but more pressure on the brake pedal is needed, probably similar to having no servo assist
what EXACTLY does the brake 'simulator' do?
Is the car drivable when it fails? If so is it that there is no feedback on the pedal.
I have never owned a Honda with the problem. My eHEV HR-V was faultless, as was my eHEV CR-V but I gather this problem is far wider than the Jazz Hybrid HR-V, Hybrid CR-V etc are affected.
Thank you in advance for any help forthcoming.
Colin.
I hate to show my ignorance, but need to know as a friend is about to by a Jazz.
Hi there, I'm new to here. My car has the same problem of braking issue. I have reported it to The UK Honda and also my authorised car agent. May I ask for a piece of advice?
I bought my car on 16 Oct and reported the braking issue to Honda Bolton on 30 December. I asked them for a hire car and they refused as it's outside of manufacturer's warranty. But they said they will fix the car for me and ask me to wait till the braking part to be delivered in early Feb.
My question:
Is there anything i can do or just wait till they fix my car? we are disappointed as we newly bought the car and used it only for 10 weeks and now have no car to use until the car fixed, i assume like late Feb.
UK Honda said if i'm not happy with their final decision, they even ask me to report to The Motoring Ombudsman - is that useful to do this process?
Thank you very much.
What kind of errors do people get when this fault kicks in
On page 42 there are VIN numbers displayed. Seems to be MS, NS and PS at position 9 and 10 which are affected.
Italy might be later due to a more optimal climate (failure seems earlier when it is wet and cold)!
I wonder how many of those affected by this have reported it here https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect
This has been referred to before. From gov.uk :
A serious safety defect is something ...... that happens suddenly and without warning.
Things are not classed as a serious safety defect if ...... you’re warned about them by warning lights, noticeable changes in handling and unusual noises.
So far, all reported failures are preceeded by warning lights and messages, so probably don't meet the DVSA criteria for a "serious safety defect"
Honda have also stated in the letter reproduced here …
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=16448.msg144822#msg144822
… that this is not a safety issue.
“… we want to reassure you that this is not a safety defect. The braking system will automatically default to a fail-safe mode which meets the braking distance regulations and ensure your vehicle can be stopped safely.
We recognise that the braking sensation will feel different, but the fail-safe mode means that your vehicle will operate with the required braking distance and stop.”
Presumably that’s what they’ll have told DVSA.
That seems somewhat disigenuous on Honda's part. When my Jazz developed this "brake feel simulator" total failure, the "fail-safe mode" meant no servo assistance at all. The brake pedal went down right to the floor before there was solid resistance. And I mean solid. No feel. Very little effect either.
I did try to drive the Jazz a short distance from its parking space. Eeek! It took extreme foot pressure on the brake pedal to bring the Jazz to a stop from about 5 mph after a distance of about 20 yards. I am quite fit for a pensioner but no way is my right leg strong enough to make the vehicle "operate with the required braking distance and stop" as Honda puts it.
If I couldn't manage, how could a woman driver possibly operate that foot brake without assistance. I don't call that "fail-safe" at all. The Jazz was undriveable. I would not have been able to drive it safely to my nearest Honda workshop, a distance of less than 10 miles. Through heavy urban traffic, without crashing? Absurd. Way too risky.
The AA had to recover the Jazz on a towing dolley because the AA's agent said it was "not driveable" and he put that in his Report.
The dash warning lights and accompanying "bong" sounds also indicated that other safety systems including ABS, and even steering assistance / driver safety aids were now inop.
"Fail-safe"? Really? That is utter rubbish IMO. I can't see how Honda can possibly prove it. Was a Jazz with "brake feel simulator" total failure tested independently at MIRA? Is there an independent engineer's Report that Honda can disclose?
Not particularly worried on my car at this stage as it only reaches 3 years old in Nov this year and should it fail, I am confident it will be replaced free of charge due to the good work from many owners on this forum.
It is a MY23, manufactured in 2022 and has the PS code in its VIN, however neither the Government website or Honda's website shows a recall for this vehicle.
Its not clear to me if this an across the board recall based on the MS,NS and PS reference in the VIN number, a staggered recall with later production dates to be recalled in due course, or my car is not affected.
Stumbled across this thread, as have been experiencing the exact same issues with initial intermittent ES and EP warning lights, and now on all the time with difficulty with depressing the brake. Guess I'm in the same boat. I'm now outside the 3 year warranty period too which sucks, any advice on how to proceed?
Hi, and thanks for your information, I just checked the Honda Italy website and with the VIN number
I found the recall for my car.
I printed the page and tomorrow I'll call the dealer.
The forum is really useful.
(Sorry for the mistakes I used Google Translate)
...
More possible that Honda starts to older models to younger.
The thing that left me perplexed is that they told me to bring both car keys, because maybe they have to do a software update of the control unit and they don't know if they have to update the keys too.
I thought I had to replace a defective part of the car.
But as I said I took them by surprise with this recall, so in my opinion they still didn't have a clear idea of what they had to do.
I will update you after the work is done.
You will often be speaking to someone in service reception more knowledgeable in office administration than technical skills. The job is relatively new to them as well and they may be playing it safe .They may typically ask for both keys for some other jobs. (For instance I am usually reminded to bring the locking wheel nut key to a service) The Technicians probably know its not necessary
The thing that left me perplexed is that they told me to bring both car keys, because maybe they have to do a software update of the control unit and they don't know if they have to update the keys too.
You will often be speaking to someone in service reception more knowledgeable in office administration than technical skills. The job is relatively new to them as well and they may be playing it safe .They may typically ask for both keys for some other jobs. (For instance I am usually reminded to bring the locking wheel nut key to a service) The Technicians probably know its not necessary
The thing that left me perplexed is that they told me to bring both car keys, because maybe they have to do a software update of the control unit and they don't know if they have to update the keys too.
Went to collect courtesy car this morning and asked if they wanted both keys (for my 2020 Crosstar) but they said no not needed.In confirmation of what he wrote Lord Voltermore
2020 MS Jazz here.
Honda Italy website says that my car is affected by the recall.
As I'm no longer doing Honda maintenance, due to the local Honda dealer charging me for job that he hasn't done, I'll wait the official recall letter.
No, I'm in Tuscany.
At my last service ,50,000 miles i asked the service receptionist if they had done any brake simulator swaps -they had been informed by honda uk affected owners would be written to advising them of the issue . In due course they would be carrying out warrantry replacement .
Update on my 2020 Crosstar brake simulator problem, went into dealers on the 8th Jan, told part not available until 17th Feb then told 20th Feb now gone back to 6th March. At least now they have a courtesy car available for me tomorrow.
For anyone who’s had this done, how long did you have to wait? Also any problems since?
At my last service ,50,000 miles i asked the service receptionist if they had done any brake simulator swaps -they had been informed by honda uk affected owners would be written to advising them of the issue . In due course they would be carrying out warrantry replacement .
I know you are local to me, and we share the same dealership. My 2022 Jazz has the PS VIN, so would expect to receive a letter at some point.
Your mention though of 'warranty replacement' is a tad disconcerting. Does this mean that only simulators that fail within the warranty period will be replaced?
I ask because there is no guarantee that the part will fail within that period.. I am sure within this thread there is an owner who's failure was 5 years from new.
Bought mine mid June 2020, brake problem started 5th Jan this year
And the same here in Poland... :(
My VIN now brings up the same ''Abnormal brake pedal feel and warning lamp 'on''' message. It's all a bit secret recall, isn't it? Shouldn't they tell us rather than leave us to find out via an independent forum that you'd never see if you weren't a member?
I think they try to keep it a secret, and 'play it down' for as long as they can get away with it ,country by country. It depends on the level of customer awareness ,complaints and bad publicity in each country, and whatever notification and action is legally required by each Government.My VIN now brings up the same ''Abnormal brake pedal feel and warning lamp 'on''' message. It's all a bit secret recall, isn't it? Shouldn't they tell us rather than leave us to find out via an independent forum that you'd never see if you weren't a member?
My dealer told me that Honda UK decided that it was a 'product update' so no proactive communication was being send. Interesting how it's a product update in the Netherlands and a full recall in the UK though.
To be fair to Honda other car manufacturers do the same. And although I take no particular interest in the subject I often receive news feeds about quite serious recalls on pretty much all makes of car, including those normally regarded as top quality luxury models. The latest one was doors opening whilst on the move - I cant recall the make ,but quite a posh ,high tech, one.
I think they try to keep it a secret, and 'play it down' for as long as they can get away with it ,country by country. It depends on the level of customer awareness ,complaints and bad publicity in each country, and whatever notification and action is legally required by each Government.It might even boil down to something as simple as plain market share in the relevant country.
I queried mine a few weeks ago and mine isn't on the list yet
Until it is they can't touch it
Just seen affirmation of recall on the website for the Jazz and my 20 plate CRV so it’ll be 2 trips to North Wales Honda.
Has anybody just approached the dealership just on the strength f the website confirmation and what was the response/experience?
Thanks in advance
Mine is coming up on recall thanks to @dfconnolly’s post remind me to check. Proper frustrating as I’ve just got my car back last week from a warranty repair.
I now need to get the VIN for the HRV and check that too :(
Be interested to know if anyone only waits a couple of weeks, mine was a 9 week wait.Just a 10 day wait between phoning the dealer and getting a date for next week. But they did say they need to keep the car for 2 days. I assume that this may be because they're new to dealing with this problem.
My brake recall just got postponed by 2 weeks.
I know it's always someone else's fault with this kind of thing but I was told that ''Honda are a bit slow getting the parts out.''
I wonder whether this might become a general problem.
Apparently mine didn't require any attention
Totally agree
How can they tell whether an internal seal is leaking
After receiving a letter from Honda advising me that my car would be recalled to attend to the brake failure problem, within a few weeks I received an email from my Honda dealership asking me to book the car in for its 3rd service and MOT. They would also check to see if there was a problem with my simulator. Apparently mine didn't require any attention. Neither did they record an oil change. I responded to an email from Honda asking me how satisfied I was with the dealership and I told them about the lack of recorded information. I've not yet received a reply.
The Honda garage said that the light wasn't on so nothing had to be replaced
Honda are only replacing the brake simulator if error codes are found.
After receiving a letter from Honda advising me that my car would be recalled to attend to the brake failure problem ...
If this is all it says I interpret this as meaning " you can ONLY apply for the free repair under the recall if you have abnormal brake feel and a warning lamp on." And only if you print off the page so the dealers are aware of something Honda should already have told them is a free recall repair.
In our case it went like this: I check the website for recalls and after entering the VIN I see:
"There is an outstanding recall/update on your vehicle:
Abnormal brake pedal feel and warning lamp 'on'
Please print this page and contact your local authorised Honda dealer to arrange an appointment and have your car repaired free of charge."
If this is all it says I interpret this as meaning " you can ONLY apply for the free repair under the recall if you have abnormal brake feel and a warning lamp on."
But 3 non-warranty repairs at your own expense in 2 months would really be a (bad) joke! (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/boese/a122.gif)
Just when I thought it was all over, brake recall done but air con leak now, another warranty visit in a few weeks.
3 warranty repairs in 2 months is a joke tbh.
Can it go anytime or after so many miles or what?. My car is registered November 2022 but only done 4,250 miles.
Just when I thought it was all over, brake recall done but air con leak now, another warranty visit in a few weeks.
3 warranty repairs in 2 months is a joke tbh.
I’m so sorry you are having issues with your Jazz
The only good thing is that it’s all being sorted under warranty
Can I ask what mileage you Jazz has done?
Got the recall done, also did the annual service while I was there. Car seems to be running fine, hopefully all is well!Mine was done earlier this week (but not the service). I was surprised that they used over a litre of petrol (at 3.9mpg) while they were doing it. If you use the Honda+ app, can you see how much fuel they used?
Got the recall done, also did the annual service while I was there. Car seems to be running fine, hopefully all is well!Mine was done earlier this week (but not the service). I was surprised that they used over a litre of petrol (at 3.9mpg) while they were doing it. If you use the Honda+ app, can you see how much fuel they used?
Mine was done earlier this week (but not the service). I was surprised that they used over a litre of petrol (at 3.9mpg) while they were doing it. If you use the Honda+ app, can you see how much fuel they used?
I was told years ago that any brake work must be tested on the road before handing backYes, it looks like the car was driven at 24mph at some point so that was probably the road test. However, the time that it was powered up was over an hour-and-a-half, hence the fuel consumption, and the figure of an average speed of 0.3mph indicates that it wasn't on the road for much of that time. The fuel consumption of 1.2 litres during that time is equivalent to almost 100 miles on the road.
If you had brake failure , that is the brake pedal doesn’t operate anything -then the only option is to use the handbrake . This applies all four disc brakes using the electric servo motors -powered by the 12v battery -this means it’s a fail safe system in case of a failure in The HV battery and hybrid system . Once stopped the car cannot be moved without powering up the HV system . I believe ( and expect someone can confirm ) that the Honda hybrid braking technology is as Toyotas . They have a mechanical link in the brake pedal which can operate the powered hydraulic circuit in case if an electronic failure in the braking controls . The hybrid braking is mostly accommodated using the generator / electric motor via regen braking . Only at low speeds are the disc brakes used and in parking . Also when the vehicle stability dynamic controls require individual / multiple wheel braking will the discs brakes be activated .I’m including emergency braking as vehicle stability as this is effectively is anti lock braking element
Aaaarrrggghhh.
Setting off on holiday tomorrow in the car. Attempting to move car for a pre-trip wash and dash lit up with brake failure messages. Why today? Not sure my heart can take this.
Mine's booked in for the recall work on April Fools Day :o
Takes 2.5 to 3 hours apparently
Kremmen,
Our Jazz was in most of the day and they had our CRV all day with collection the following day.
Additionally to that the workshop is under severe pressure due to a complete change of ownership and NEW staff. (North WalesHonda)
Worryingly with the Jazz they asked me to bring it back in the next day because they thought they may not have tightened up an adjustment bolt on the engine properly (they had actually done it right!)
Any North Wales customers out there beware ….don’t leave your car on Argyle Street by the Kia dealer due to total lack of parking; you will get a parking ticket!
This new ownership isn’t boding well at the moment
Does anybody know how they get in touch with you if your car is in line for the recall? Is it a phone call, email. Missed a call a week or so back from my dealer. They haven't been back in touch.I checked on Honda's updates and recalls page (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/recalls-and-updates.html) and then called to get an appointment for the recall. The dealer didn't seem to be proactive with the recall but they reacted fine once I'd called them.
I've had no contact
I just spotted it on the recall page at HondaUK
Yes, I was surprised to see mine on recall
In todays post the recall letter from honda for the brake simulator recall replacement so book in with my local honda dealer 3rd week in june . So hopefully will be ok before as holidaying around northumberland .
I don’t anticipate any issues in doing the job with them ! No doubt the jazz will have a wash as it goes though their hands as usual !! 👍
HiMine is a 72 reg, registered Nov 22, so I assume a build date maybe Aug or Sept 22. Its VIN contains the suspect letters, but as yet I have not received any notification from Honda explaining the situation, nor is it shown as yet as a recall.
Re my 22 reg Ex.
Received first letter from Honda 20/12/24 explaining situation over brake problem.
Received second letter 05/06/26 asking me to contact local dealer for fitment of new brake part
Now booked in for 17/07/25
A total of almost 7 months bet notification and hopefully a repair .
Good job I wasn't in a hurry.
I noticed my brakes were not quite right grinding sound ...
That would be most interesting, together with the years of those affected, as I am considering buying a MK4 to replace SWMBO's Mk3.
Had my car recall completed yesterday.
This topic has gone on for some time but has anyone noted the number of members here who actually suffered a failure - what percentage of forum does that represent?
Had my car recall completed yesterday.
This topic has gone on for some time but has anyone noted the number of members here who actually suffered a failure - what percentage of forum does that represent?
I would be more interested to know of what percentage of Jazz Mk 4 owners in the UK actually were members of this forum.
How many owners in the MS, NS & PS Vin series are members, and how many of these series are actually driving around the UK.
I suspect forum members are a very tiny and negligable percentage overall.
Had my car recall completed yesterday.
This topic has gone on for some time but has anyone noted the number of members here who actually suffered a failure - what percentage of forum does that represent?
I would be more interested to know of what percentage of Jazz Mk 4 owners in the UK actually were members of this forum.
How many owners in the MS, NS & PS Vin series are members, and how many of these series are actually driving around the UK.
I suspect forum members are a very tiny and negligable percentage overall.
I think for information on this we should try to stick to what we know/can verify instead of wandering off to varied tangents as far too often happens.
If national figures required by individual then please approach Honda - good luck with that.
My take on the failure is brake fluid getting past a seal and interfering with some electronics ?
Maybe the mechanic had cause to press the brake pedal hard that helped force fluid past an already deteriorated seal
I've always wondered whether those who had the failure were using brakes more than others. Does brake hold for example use excessive pressure on the hydraulics
All just guesswork though
I had my brake simulation recall done last Wednesday- had no problem with my brakes before then. They felt very soft after it was done and the next day my brakes failed. I couldn’t get above 20 and could just smell burning rubber. Car is back with dealer and they are waiting on Honda to advise what to do next. All four brake pads now need replacing. Anyone else had similar or know what happened before to the brakes they caused the recall? Many thanks
I had a letter from Honda identifying my vehicle (HONDA JAZZ) and stating that there was a brake operating simulator fault and called this a ' product update', which posed NO safety implications whatsoever.
I received the letter just days before a very bad accident,caused by complete brake failure.
The car is a write off. Two Injuries, two damage vehicles and no warning whatsoever, This should have been a recall, DO NOT DRIVE - RECALL NOTICE.
I can't tell you how terrifying it is to be sitting in the drivers seat, helplessly standing on a unresponsive brake pedal as the car, seemingly with a trajectory of it's own, hurtles towards the rear of a very solid Bin Wagon!!
The Insurance paid out, but do not seem interested whatsoever in pursuing HONDA, who are the real culprits .
I have reported the incident to the DVSA, who are investigating. I know I am now in a very long queue for justice, but does anyone know of a JOINT CIVIL ACTION?
I have now bought a Yaris and seem to have got a better car entirely
Those statements from honda are absolutely NOT from any technical or engineering dept but sadly some pseudo legal PR / marketting dept who frankly shouldnt even be employed in the local circus !!Sadly also partly aided by 'clowns' in Government and DVSA with their policy that a recall is not mandatory if a failure manifests itself as warning lights . PR types and bean counters at Honda europe/uk probably seized on this as an excuse to downplay the problem long after Hondas Asian markets were doing recalls.
IIRC Citroen recently put an immediate DO NOT DRIVE recall on certain models due to a fatal crash in France (I think) where the airbag did not deploy. (A Takata airbag I think ) There may have been previous cases that were not fatal. Contrast this with the Takata recall that affected numerous makes of car in the 2000's. The recall had been in place for about 2 years before Toyota finally replaced the airbag on my 2007 Yaris. Had I been in danger for 2 years ? , or was my increased danger statistically acceptable to Toyota? , or by then were they just replacing them to improve PR and perhaps punish Takata. (so they wouldnt dare make faulty airbags again until at least 2025 :-\ )
I had a letter from Honda identifying my vehicle (HONDA JAZZ) and stating that there was a brake operating simulator fault and called this a ' product update', which posed NO safety implications whatsoever.
I received the letter just days before a very bad accident,caused by complete brake failure.
The car is a write off. Two Injuries, two damage vehicles and no warning whatsoever, This should have been a recall, DO NOT DRIVE - RECALL NOTICE.
I can't tell you how terrifying it is to be sitting in the drivers seat, helplessly standing on a unresponsive brake pedal as the car, seemingly with a trajectory of it's own, hurtles towards the rear of a very solid Bin Wagon!!
The Insurance paid out, but do not seem interested whatsoever in pursuing HONDA, who are the real culprits .
I have reported the incident to the DVSA, who are investigating. I know I am now in a very long queue for justice, but does anyone know of a JOINT CIVIL ACTION?
I have now bought a Yaris and seem to have got a better car entirely
The reported crash does NOT seem to fit with others experience.
Maybe some other contributory factor?
The reported crash does NOT seem to fit with others experience.
Maybe some other contributory factor?
Well, only with the failures reported on this forum.
How many VIN No. affected Jazz owners are there that aren't on this forum?
Quite a lot I imagine.
The reported crash does NOT seem to fit with others experience.
Maybe some other contributory factor?
Well, only with the failures reported on this forum.
How many VIN No. affected Jazz owners are there that aren't on this forum?
Quite a lot I imagine.
278 people on forum have given the car colour, maybe/maybe not all members but a reasonable number to give a reflection of failure rate in the general population - maybe someone can count number of failures and if car moving or static?
This thread has had over 3.72 million views ! :o Take note Honda executives. :P Dont mess with your reputation and customer goodwill to impress your bosses /shareholders that you have saved a few bucks. >:(
I hadnt realised the citroen recall was due to 'shrapnel' .Well done Citroen for taking no further risks .
Perhaps Honda's brake simulator replacement policy here in Poland is fundamentally different from that of Honda UK.
In our case it went like this: I check the website for recalls and after entering the VIN I see:
"There is an outstanding recall/update on your vehicle:
Abnormal brake pedal feel and warning lamp 'on'
Yesterday our brake servo feel simulator was replaced.
Does your VIN show anything on this page? https://auto.honda.fr/cars/owners/rappels-et-mises-a-jour.htmlPerhaps Honda's brake simulator replacement policy here in Poland is fundamentally different from that of Honda UK.
In our case it went like this: I check the website for recalls and after entering the VIN I see:
"There is an outstanding recall/update on your vehicle:
Abnormal brake pedal feel and warning lamp 'on'Yesterday our brake servo feel simulator was replaced.
Does your VIN show anything on this page? https://auto.honda.fr/cars/owners/rappels-et-mises-a-jour.html
Hey everyone, I'm from France and I got my car serviced yesterday for the exact same recall as mentioned above. But, even though I asked my dealership 3 times, by phone and then in person, they only replaced the master cylinder and assured me that this had nothing to do with the brake feel simulator.
Should I be worried? Because, on one hand, I suppose that my dealer doesn't choose what is to be replaced for a recall and that they follow Honda France / Europe procedures, and on the other hand, it's kind of strange that for the exact same recall title, they don't replace the same mechanical part in Poland and in France.
Again, should I be worried? ;D
Does your VIN show anything on this page? https://auto.honda.fr/cars/owners/rappels-et-mises-a-jour.htmlMy dealership must not have updated it yet. My car was serviced there yesterday for 4 hours for that precise recall, and what's showing on this page is exactly the same as for Jazzik :
I wonder whether there is just some confusion in terminology? Master cylinder vs Brake feel simulator, possibly the same thing just different words depending on who you speak to?I suppose that is an option..
On modern systems like your Jazz's, the master cylinder, electric servo motor, electronic control unit, and brake feel simulator are all contained within a single integrated brake module.
So, when the dealership replaced the "master cylinder," they undoubtedly swapped out the complete electric servo brake unit, which contains the brake feel simulator.
My apologies if my question has been asked and answered before, but I don't really want to go through 64 pages to check.
I received the letter about the recall back in April. Consulted with the local dealer and agreed that this would be handled at the next annual service which was due in September. Car went in last week and as I am currently away my wife handled this.
Now the letter received from Honda clearly mentions '.....repair, which is free of charge.."
The invoice (which only shows the MOT as a chargeable item as the car is still under the service plan), says:
"abnormal brake pedal feel and warning lamp 'on'. Mileage 24116 - all ok'. The mileage of the car when checked was actually 25115 (so possibly an error).
So it would appear the item was NOT repaired. Question: is it possible to check this and come to the conclusion that repair was not required? Have they just fobbed my wife off?
Thanks
Canterhans. I think a 2020 car should be eligible for a free recall replacement. Have you owned the car from new and know its not been replaced, perhaps by a previous owner?
With newer cars (2023> )that are not vulnerable to the faulty part , or earlier cars which have already had it replaced they may just quickly check the brake 'feel' is ok, with no warning lights/codes. Which your car passed. .
You need to clarify with them whether the car has already had the simulator replaced. And if not, why not .
.....
Is your car still flagged for the recall when you use the MOT History site?
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
Guys, I'm based in Italy. I just recently purchased a used Jazz Crosstar 2021 eHEV with 85k kms (52k miles). Car is amazing! But after going through all the forums, I came across the infamous concerning issue of "Abnormal brake pedal feel and warning lamp 'on'" I looked it up and I see a recall for it. Luckily the car's got a 8 years unlimited warranty. Now, what's worrying is should I get the brake issue fixed, could this be an issue again in the future? Quite baffled also by a user who mentioned an accident previously in the thread due to failed brakes. Since its quite a critical component of a car, didn't want to put my family and public at risk - It's quite worrying and dangerous! having said that, do you guys have experience on what happens post guarantee period of Honda for the annual maintenance (generally speaking)? did you guys take it to Honda or 3rd party, does it get expensive? Toyota for instance gives you 15 years coverage if you do the maintenance with them every year punctually and it covers the hybrid battery as well, 10 years though.I'm based in Italy too, and since two years I'm not doing maintenance at Honda anymore, due to discord with my local dealer.
Thank you!
You should check your VIN here, as if the dealer completed the repair, them making the claim will remove your vehicle from the list.
https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/recalls-and-updates.html
.....
Is your car still flagged for the recall when you use the MOT History site?
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
No, it is not. But then I did not check that site before the part was (supposedly) replaced, so I am not sure at all that this particular recall would have been flagged there. Has anyone got any data / experience with that?
Unfortunately, I only learned about that site a few days ago.
My car goes in for its third year service and first MOT next month. I raised the question of the brake simulator recall as my VIN number is one of the model years identified in this thread, so around a late summer 2022 build. The service advisor said there is no recall on my car, so not sure if that’s good or bad news.
Anyone on this forum with a similar build date had a recall yet?
I am planning to take a 2 year extension to the warranty for peace of mind to bring it inline with the 5 year service plan.
Alternatively you might want to consult the digital service record (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/digital-service-record.html) of your car.It would be convenient if any prospective buyer could easily check recalls and service history using the vin number visible through the windscreen. But I'd be annoyed if a nosy neighbour confronted me about not keeping my car serviced >:( :P Or if it gave access to any details that identify me , except by me logging in.
Interestingly enough, Honda UK feels fit to impose a "Honda Login" upon its customers where as the dsr of Honda Switzerland is open to everyone having a valid VIN.
(and I'm not yet quite sure which system to prefer...)
Is there anyone here who's VIN is in the PS series, and has either had or had not had the recall letter yet?
I regularly check the Honda website, and look at the recall section of my digital service record and it has so far always come back with 'no recalls for this vehicle'.
However, the last week it is now saying 'cannot retrieve data'.
I phoned my dealer, and they have said that it isn't showing as a recall for my vehicle on their system.
I also check my May 22 reg. car, also PS series, on a regular basis, and this evening, also came across,
“Cannot retrieve data”.
We wait in anticipation!