Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: 1KPI on October 28, 2023, 02:01:03 PM
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Despite recent post I was persuaded, after 18 months Crosstar ownership, by a local main dealer to trade in for a 72 reg HrV Advanced Style ex demonstrator with 4K miles
Karoq did an extensive post in Jan 22 detailing his experiences with a new HrV.
Given the recent close purchase price of the Jazz & HrV I thought that it may be helpful to some to add my own experiences.I do add the caveat that we all like to have ownership verification and our purchases always reflect our own needs & wants i.e.horses for courses.
Positives
Much higher driving position - on par with previously owned Yeti.
The additional height of the Crosstar over the Jazz never really convinced.
Was recently grateful for additional ride height as it allowed me to circumnavigate floods which the Crosstar wouldn’t have managed.
Much more compliant ride despite the 18” wheels. This was especially important as the local area is pothole ridden & the Crosstar used to crash over these & was the main reason in deciding to exchange.
Forward vision is good, despite the missing quarter lights. Rear vision only marginally down on Crosstar
Addition of heated steering wheel, blindspot monitor, partially heated screen, & cross traffic alert.
Economy Only marginal differences In 18 months brim to brim average for Crosstar 53.7 mph , 50.1 mph for HrV in 2 months
Interior Especially in Advance Style trim much more premium feel & whole dash feels much more coordinated. I am not sure that the Crosstar is as durable, or will age as well
Exterior V much personal choice but now feel that the HrV is worthy of an ‘ over the shoulder look ‘ after parking it.
Honda sensing HrV has the full suite but it appears that the RDMS is less sensitive. Now much less of a pain when I forget to turn it off on start up plus brake hold stays on in between journeys
In common with Crosstar has magic seats
Boot marginally bigger such that weekly shop is less of a tight squeeze
Stereo in Advanced Style with additional speakers a surprising upgrade on Crosstar
Passenger seat height/dash height. In the Crosstar my 4’ 9” wife had to use a cushion, now no longer needed
Turning circle still good
EV mode Despite increased size & weight gives good acceleration from a standing start
Lights LED all round including 2 in boot & interior lights.Strobing front turn lights & rear light bar + cornering lights
Engine noise especially on start up. The Crosstar was v loud and ‘tappety’ on start up & sometimes when cutting in to charge up Hybrid battery. HrV much quieter.
Also not been concerned with/troubled by ‘mooing’
Larger rear view mirrors give v good coverage & do not intrude too much with wind noise
Front towbar cover doesn’t fall off
Rear luggage cover clever design gets in the way of loading much less & impossible to bang your head on
Electric tailgate with ‘ kick opening ‘
Increased dimensions still allowed car to fit into garage
Negatives
HrV forum moribund compared to the Jazz forum
Insurance almost has doubled but not entirely due to the higher insurance group
Previously paying £230 now £440
Honda App Despite being an ex demonstrator telematics had not been switched on hence had to pay for both core connectivity & safety/journey service.
Residue of 8 months safety & journey could not be transferred to new vehicle
Beware on trade in valuations, residue of service plan unlikely to be factored into price offered
12V Battery drain Possibly more sensitive than Crosstar as needed 1 booster pack start on getting vehicle.Hopefully now addressed with new replacement battery & longer journeys .Booster pack kept in car as an insurance but so far not called upon
Hope that this helps
Again I am aware that variant loyalty/validation will kick in here and that purchases will fit individual circumstances.
For our own needs the HrV has ticked all of our boxes and are very pleased with having made the switch
.Clearly the Crosstar wasn’t quite what we needed, but in saying that it was & is a good car which retains Tardis like qualities & certainly was never a case of finally got rid of the Jazz .I am sure that the new owner will have many years of faultless & reliable use.
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People who travel in my jazz are surprised by how big it is inside . They have German SUVs that tower over the jazz in the car park and are surprised by the jazzes pace in getting away and making progress ! Naturally tbe jazz doesn’t have 18 or 19 inch wheels but when do you need them apart from been trendy . Remember when in 1980 an escort and cortina had 13” wheels while the state of the art Audi 200 5T ran on 15 “ 6j alloys with 195 section tyres .
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... It's not the case of needing larger wheels It's how much better the ride is with them.
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Yes agreed to a point , once you get into larger wheel diameters needing lower profile tyres then the tyrewall stiffness increases -to the detriment of ride quality. The solution then follows the route of adaptive electronic damping and adaptive bushing elements .
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...Or just fill the arches with smaller wheels and bigger tyres ;) ;D
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I periodically swop my original 16" wheels with OE blue earth summer tyres to 15" wheels with Goodyear Vector all season tyres, and back again . (Why is a long story I have told before. ) I barely notice any difference in ride quality
The slight difference in side wall profiles means the rolling circumference is about the same. If one combination should in theory give a better or worse ride than they other it is almost entirely lost ,possibly due to a difference in tyre brand.
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I like the look of the HR-V but the following concerns have so far prevented me from considering saying farewell to my Crosstar.
1. Much higher insurance cost, group 30 I believe.
2. 4 Star safety rating.
3. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it has the same power engine as Jazz in a heavier body so will be slower.
Despite the above I must admit it still looks good!
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Yes I believe it’s same drive train as fitted to the jazz so should be same power, bigger and will use more fuel , aerodynamic drag greater. I like the jazz styling better though it’s too similar these days to VW iD 3/4/5😮
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I admit to missing the ride height of my previous Capturs, and a couple of Scenics. The Jazz is only an inch shorter than the Crosstar, and both offer far less ride height than them. However, it wasn't a deal breaker for me. The Jazz is just as spacious inside, and the 16" alloys fitted to my EX Style have never given a harsh ride (which all reviewers said was a negative). There are only me and the wife, so the Jazz is big enough. I have had two bikes on the top, or a single kayak, the boot takes tents/rucksacks/luggage..without ever having to use the magic seats (which I have done because two folding bikes fit neatly in the space). We don't need anything bigger.
The HrV for me is just another SillyUselessVehicle, and has all the aesthetics of a breeze block.
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H-RV: aerodynamics and appearance of a shipping container, larger and heavier than the Jazz or Crosstar, the same drive train (with a slightly stronger electric motor). This makes it slower and less economical.
Length +25 cm, width +7 cm, very handy for parking in our city... :(
But... the H-RV does have more interior and boot space: boot not less than 15 liters more! :o For the two of us (and incidentally 1, maximum two passengers) our Jazz has space enough.
Here in Poland the H-RV is about €7,000 more expensive, and lets not talk :-X about the insurance costs.
It's that we appreciate our Jazz so much, but otherwise...(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c086.gif)
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Jazz has a 2-spoke steering wheel, that allows me to hold my hand(s) at the bottom of the steering wheel while cruising. HR-V, like most cars, has a 3 or 4-spoke steering wheel, which makes this more uncomfortable to do, when you have to put your fingers between those bottom spokes. Because of this, I didn't want to buy a Jazz Sport either.
Jazz also has two glove compartments and the cup holders in front of the air vents, which come in handy sometimes.
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Jazz has a 2-spoke steering wheel, that allows me to hold my hand(s) at the bottom of the steering wheel while cruising. HR-V, like most cars, has a 3 or 4-spoke steering wheel, which makes this more uncomfortable to do, when you have to put your fingers between those bottom spokes. Because of this, I didn't want to buy a Jazz Sport either.
Jazz also has two glove compartments and the cup holders in front of the air vents, which come in handy sometimes.
...Driving with your hands at the bottom of the steering wheel isn't exactly the smartest thing now is it?
Not being able to is a dumb reason not to buy a particular car!
More cars should have cupholders at the outer parts of the dash though.
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Hmm . The reasons people buy any particular car is down to them . What maybe considered silly to one is the most important factor to another . My wife buys on colour ….! It’s her car and pride and joy so she buys what she likes. It’s doesn’t bother her what’s under the bonnet as it’s a Toyota and that’s good enough not to worry about
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I looked at the HrV and might possibly have purchased it if it had been easy for me to get in an out, but with the low roof line, it was difficult for me to lower my head to get in(previous neck surgery which makes some cars difficult to enter)
In the end, coming from the Honda E, I chose the Jazz and it has proved an excellent replacement, exceeded all expectations as our city car as well as on some longer trips when I know parking will be tight at the destination.
I can see why some people will prefer the HrV as I do miss the elevated driving position of our other car when driving the Jazz
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Hmm . The reasons people buy any particular car is down to them . What maybe considered silly to one is the most important factor to another . My wife buys on colour ….! It’s her car and pride and joy so she buys what she likes. It’s doesn’t bother her what’s under the bonnet as it’s a Toyota and that’s good enough not to worry about
...If it was for looks then I'd agree as I think two spoke looks better than three but to 'need' it so you can drive in a potentially dangerous manner without being in proper control is still dumb whichever way you look at it.
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I read somewhere that driving with fingers either side of a steering wheel spoke is dangerous so having 4 placed in inconvenient spaces sounds uncomfy
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I read somewhere that driving with fingers either side of a steering wheel spoke is dangerous so having 4 placed in inconvenient spaces sounds uncomfy
?
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[quote author=1KPI link=topic=16242.msg137967#msg137967 date=169849806
HrV forum moribund compared to the Jazz forum
Insurance almost has doubled but not entirely due to the higher insurance group
Previously paying £230 now £440.Unquote.
HR-V forum which One? The one I use is https://www.hondaforums.co.uk/search.php?search_id=active_topics
And I agree, not that busy re HR-Vs, probably because they haven't sold that many? Also it transmogrified from being the HR-V forum to a general Honda forum. There may be more active HR-V fora around, have a 'Google'.
INSURANCE,
I obviously am not aware of your personal circumstances, but I was 76 when I owned my HR-V so my insurance is higher than someone in middle age. Mine cost me £328 fully comp. when I changed to the CR-V it was only a group 28 and the insurance went UP to £338 Work that out if you can!
I now own a 2021 eNiro full EV and I received a REFUND of £27 for the year over the CR-V. Again work that out.
If I were you I would do some serious research and try and find cheaper. I always insure with AVIVA and have given up searching at renewal, because no decent insurance company ever beats them for my age and use.
The b8ggers make it up as they go along I think.
Having gone full EV, I cannot imagine myself EVER going back to any form of ICE. 316 miles on a full charge costing me £13.00 I drive past filling stations and :P!
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Thanks for your post Karoq.
Re insurance we started going through the comparison sites some 3 weeks before it was due & the price we are paying was the best we could come up with, although to be fair Aviva was not on the list.I will bear it in mind for next year, thanks for your helpful advice.
You did very well for your quote on the Niro especially as increased insurance costs have risen exponentially this year due, in part, to the high cost of repairing electric cars.
Karoq, HR-V, Cr-V & Niro since January 22! You don’t road test for What Car by any chance!? I’m only up to 3 Hondas somewhat shy of your 7
Joking aside it’s great that you’ve settled on a car which suits your own circumstances and needs.A situation that some earlier posters seem unable to recognise.Similarly, hopefully in the manner of my 2 latest posts, it’s always helpful and welcome to receive some constructive comments & advice
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...Did the 'kick' tailgate opening get culled for the 2023 models?
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No longer showing on current website so presume not present
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...Must still be having 'chip' shortages or they just couldn't be bothered to reinstate it!
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Sounds like saving pennies... :(
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My observations based on changing from a 2020 Crosstar to a 2022 HR-V (Elegance) 13 months ago.
1. The HR-V is more pleasant to drive, both due to better ride comfort (despite the big wheels with low profile tyres) and a more refined power system utilising 2 years more development.
2. My daughter got car sick in the back of the Crosstar which she blamed on unsupportive seats (the tinted glass won't have helped) but has been happy in the HR-V on the same journey.
3. Honda's specs suggest the HR-V's boot is only slightly bigger than the Crosstar's boot but the reality is the HR-V has much more space (which was one reason for the vehicle change). The folding cover is also very useful.
Over a full year my HR-V has delivered about 12% lower mpg than the Crosstar for similar driving conditions. This difference is in line with what I calculated using the WLTP data for both vehicles. The mpg of both vehicles drops drastically during the winter months and both suffer a substantial reduction in mpg when driving over 60 mph.
4. RDMS on the HR-V is much less intrusive (I think this change has also been applied to the 2023 Jazz).
5. The HR-V's HV battery has 25% more capacity which contributes towards the improved driving experience and I haven't had the vehicle engaging engine braking when going down a long hill in B mode.
6. The HR-V has paddles to control the level of regeneration when driving in D. I tried them once and found them to be a PITA gimmick and switched to the B mode which I also used with the Crosstar.
7. When I changed vehicle last year the additional insurance premium was negligible. It has, however, gone up significantly this year.
8. I don't like the HR-V's extra width when on narrower UK roads. I'd like the Mk 3 HR-V drivetrain in the Mk 2 HR-V bodyshell!
At the moment I expect to keep the HR-V until the 5 year service plan and warranty expire at which time I'll consider getting an EV.