Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Neil Ives on September 13, 2022, 10:51:56 PM

Title: Keyless driving!
Post by: Neil Ives on September 13, 2022, 10:51:56 PM
I had to deliver items to two local addresses. My wife opened the car and put stuff in. I set off and then saw a big yellow message advising me that no wireless key was detected, (or something along those lines). I realised what had happened; I didn't have either of our keys with me! I remembered something I'd read here about this being possible and that if I turned the car off I would not be able to start it again. I had to leave the ignition on at both addresses, although the engine was not running. Same at the petrol station when I filled up;  I felt guilty about not turning off the ignition but I paid at the pump and it was not obvious that the car was still 'live'.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: 123Drive! on September 14, 2022, 11:12:19 AM
My friend last week left his CRV on whilst loading goods and a thef drove and stole his car! His key was still in his pocket!

I thought the car would stop without the key nearby? Unfortunately he can't claim his insurance.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on September 14, 2022, 11:50:57 AM
My friend last week left his CRV on whilst loading goods and a thef drove and stole his car! His key was still in his pocket!

I thought the car would stop without the key nearby? Unfortunately he can't claim his insurance.

Its always been the case that if you leave the engine running while you temporarily 'quit' the vehicle  and a thief jumps in and drives off it will be considered negligent  by insurers  . No real difference between keyless or  traditional keys  left in the ignition  .   Whats more if the car was left  on a public highway (and possibly also public places such as a car park)with its engine running its also an offence and you could be prosecuted.    Having said that.  If the car had been in silent EV mode when you left it, and started by  itself after you left it,  could there be a case for more lenience from the court or insurers?   Insurers will probably say you should have locked it anyway.   

Having the engine cut out when out of range  could be dangerous.  What if the car suddenly cut out on the motorway because it lost the signal from the key ?.This could  happen if the key battery is nearly flat, or if its moved or covered by something that blocks its signal.

Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Nicksey on September 14, 2022, 07:19:18 PM
Same thing happens with Renault keys, which we found out once with a Captur. I dropped the wife off in town and then went to find a parking space... only to find out she had the key.
The other thing I have noticed id with the Renault key, when you walked away the car would lock itself whereas the Jazz you have to manually lock it.
Also, and something I do miss is the anti-raid locking sytsem that Renault had i.e. once you hit 5mph the doors would lock themselves, thus foiling car jackers... which I assume isn't a big concern in Japan.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Neil Ives on September 14, 2022, 09:32:52 PM
Our previous car, a BMW had autolock/unlock and auto locking on pull away. That car had some good kit but in the end my wife and I decided it wasn't right for us;  we wanted a car that had indicators fitted as standard.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Kremmen on September 15, 2022, 06:27:18 AM
A friend has a 19 plate Audi A3 and that has auto lock at about 10mph.

I don't understand why Honda removed it in 2007.

If it's accident related then surely it could unlock when the airbags deploy.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: ColinS on September 15, 2022, 07:53:01 AM
I could never get my head around the logic behind auto-locking.  Surely if someone was going to car jack you, they would do it while you were stopped.  By the time you got up to 5 or 10 mph, they would have the door open.

Obviously I am missing something. Would someone care to explain?
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Wivenhoe on September 15, 2022, 08:12:12 AM
My last 6 cars had autoloc. It isn’t to prevent car jacking when you initially enter and drive away, it’s to protect against jacking on subsequent stops at junctions, light etc.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: ColinS on September 15, 2022, 08:28:36 AM
My last 6 cars had autoloc. It isn’t to prevent car jacking when you initially enter and drive away, it’s to protect against jacking on subsequent stops at junctions, light etc.
So when you stop at junctions, lights etc. do they not unlock?
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: kokkieblanda on September 15, 2022, 08:32:24 AM
no, the unluck when you open the door from the inside. The same when you use the lock button in the Jazz
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Kremmen on September 15, 2022, 08:44:56 AM
I could never get my head around the logic behind auto-locking.  Surely if someone was going to car jack you, they would do it while you were stopped.  By the time you got up to 5 or 10 mph, they would have the door open.

Obviously I am missing something. Would someone care to explain?

The last few cars I had with auto locking stayed locked until you used an internal door handle or switched it off via a door button. They certainly didn't unlock when you stopped.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Nicksey on September 15, 2022, 10:06:53 AM
I could never get my head around the logic behind auto-locking.  Surely if someone was going to car jack you, they would do it while you were stopped.  By the time you got up to 5 or 10 mph, they would have the door open.

Obviously I am missing something. Would someone care to explain?

The last few cars I had with auto locking stayed locked until you used an internal door handle or switched it off via a door button. They certainly didn't unlock when you stopped.

Same with Renault, they stay locked for the duration of that journey and you had to unlock internally at the end of it. As Wivenhoe says, its about the junction/traffic light stops that it is meant to protect you.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Karoq on September 15, 2022, 10:16:10 AM
Our previous car, a BMW had autolock/unlock and auto locking on pull away. That car had some good kit but in the end my wife and I decided it wasn't right for us;  we wanted a car that had indicators fitted as standard.
;D ;D ;D ;D
you probably didn't the stalk behind the steering Wheel. Most BMW drivers never notice it! :'(
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: ColinS on September 15, 2022, 10:21:49 AM
Thank you.  That makes more sense now.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: 123Drive! on September 15, 2022, 10:39:12 PM
My friend last week left his CRV on whilst loading goods and a thef drove and stole his car! His key was still in his pocket!

I thought the car would stop without the key nearby? Unfortunately he can't claim his insurance.

Its always been the case that if you leave the engine running while you temporarily 'quit' the vehicle  and a thief jumps in and drives off it will be considered negligent  by insurers  . No real difference between keyless or  traditional keys  left in the ignition  .   Whats more if the car was left  on a public highway (and possibly also public places such as a car park)with its engine running its also an offence and you could be prosecuted.    Having said that.  If the car had been in silent EV mode when you left it, and started by  itself after you left it,  could there be a case for more lenience from the court or insurers?   Insurers will probably say you should have locked it anyway.   

Having the engine cut out when out of range  could be dangerous.  What if the car suddenly cut out on the motorway because it lost the signal from the key ?.This could  happen if the key battery is nearly flat, or if its moved or covered by something that blocks its signal.

Good explanation, thanks. I wouldn't know as my 2009 Jazz only has a normal key...glad it is not keyless!
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Kremmen on September 16, 2022, 05:56:26 AM
I'm not convinced keyless is an improvement from remote central locking and an ignition barrel.

Seems very insecure judging from news reports.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: 5thcivic on September 16, 2022, 11:33:40 AM
Reports at least a 25% jump in car crime the past couple of years mostly down to keyless and remote hacking. I have to keep the E key in a faraday pouch in my pocket for safety since it does not have the switch off function of the Jazz key.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on September 16, 2022, 03:15:25 PM
Reports at least a 25% jump in car crime the past couple of years mostly down to keyless and remote hacking. I have to keep the E key in a faraday pouch in my pocket for safety since it does not have the switch off function of the Jazz key.
I'd have thought the shortage of new cars ,chips and spare parts is a big factor.  The shortage is most acute in new high tech cars.  If criminals meet the demand then most of the cars they target will inevitably be keyless.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Toptek on September 16, 2022, 06:57:54 PM
I have keyless on my 2018 EX but would prefer a standard key for security reasons. However, some years ago, a friend had his front door kicked in for his keys, so maybe waking up to an empty driveway due to relay theft maybe less traumatic.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Neil Ives on September 17, 2022, 12:18:58 PM
.... would prefer a standard key for security reasons....
You could just use the hidden key inside the key case and remove the battery from the unit.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: nowster on September 17, 2022, 01:06:39 PM
.... would prefer a standard key for security reasons....
You could just use the hidden key inside the key case and remove the battery from the unit.
You still need the battery to be able to start the thing! (Perhaps it may still work if you hold it up against the start button.)
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on September 17, 2022, 02:37:02 PM
I sometimes think  they fit keyless because they can, and because other makers are doing it.  I can see the advantage of not having to hunt for your keys if you have your hands full   (in fact I just saw a woman with a trolley of shopping  walk up to her Mercedes, and the boot opened itself electrically.  Whoopie.  But decadent really, and not having it is a first world problem.  At least she didnt have it all delivered to her sofa. )

I dont think there is much difference between keyless and keys.  If a determined thief wants your car or contents they will burgle your house for the keys, smash a window and grab something before you can react, or stage a fake  'prang' and  highjack the car  when you stop and get out.  (They already know this
  :P)   Any distressing and dangerous  consequences are going to happen anyway.

Its best not ponder on how modern life may be getting more dangerous.   Highwaymen and footpads were a danger in the 18th century.  And hanging didnt stop them.   Take all reasonable  precautions, and remember that ultimately its only a car.   Maybe I only think this way because ,apart from a motorcycle stolen (and recovered) when i was about 17  -( back in the good old days  when there were bobbies on the beat  and everything was rosy) 'But nothing much has happened to me since.  (apart from about 10 years ago when someone stole the chain off my garden  gate   ;D)

 
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: Jazzik on September 17, 2022, 03:05:43 PM
You still need the battery to be able to start the thing! (Perhaps it may still work if you hold it up against the start button.)

Maybe not necessary. Check for a hole in the center of the front bumper. Is that there? You (or your wife) can start the car with the crank...

(https://images.bonnier.cloud/files/his/production/2019/10/02192441/141282_06_startsving-5lfuukgbwk5xexuhst8h7q.jpg?max-w=1200)

I thought we've been living in the 21st century for almost 22 years now. Reading here some of the comments on the achievements of that 22nd century makes me feel like I'm back in the 1950's or 60's...
When everything was better...  :-*
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: nowster on September 19, 2022, 12:33:02 PM
Maybe not necessary. Check for a hole in the center of the front bumper. Is that there? You (or your wife) can start the car with the crank...

Don't forget to tuck your thumb in or when the engine "catches" it'll be dislocated.
Title: Re: Keyless driving!
Post by: John Ratsey on September 20, 2022, 08:39:26 AM
Reading here some of the comments on the achievements of that 22nd century makes me feel like I'm back in the 1950's or 60's...
When everything was better...  :-*
My Austin A35 came with a starting handle although I never succeeded in using it to start the engine. :D

One comforting thought is that the HV battery and big motor in the Mk 4 Jazz should succeed in starting a very reluctant engine.