Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Jayt43 on September 02, 2022, 07:59:39 PM

Title: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Jayt43 on September 02, 2022, 07:59:39 PM
In Europe, up until the end of June, Honda shifted just 11,678 examples of the Honda Jazz Mk4.

22k for the year would make it the poorest sales year EVER for the Jazz. And a far cry from the 87k shifted in 2005.

Even allowing for supply constraints (and Honda's claim that its higher showroom price gives better profit margins) this is a dire showing. Even in Japan sales have apparently been disappointing.

In contrast, 14,570 HRVs have been sold up until June (likely to be its best year since 2016 when sales totalled 33k)

Based on the above, I think something has to give. And that will be the form factor of the next Jazz. I predict its MPV shape will be replaced by a fully fledged Yaris Cross competitor. Next year the ZR-V will arrive, bridging a supposed gap between the HR-V and CR-V.

So, for me at least, a baby SUV will complete the line up better than a conventional hatch.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Westy36 on September 02, 2022, 09:11:32 PM
In Europe, up until the end of June, Honda shifted just 11,678 examples of the Honda Jazz Mk4.

22k for the year would make it the poorest sales year EVER for the Jazz. And a far cry from the 87k shifted in 2005.

Thoughts?
Ouch, not great figures. I hope they don't call it a day.

I rarely watch TV and never listen to commercial radio, but do Honda have any advertising in the UK? Can't be helping.

As you say, the SUV look is what people are buying. Honda would do well to SUV style and butch it up to appeal to more buyers, same as Toyota.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Saycol on September 03, 2022, 01:12:39 PM
So why didn’t they promote the Crosstar which does have small SUV looks?
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: richardfrost on September 03, 2022, 02:19:13 PM
So why didn’t they promote the Crosstar which does have small SUV looks?

Well because it doesn’t really, does it? An SUV? It is literally a Jazz with extra plastic and 15mm more suspension height.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: guest334 on September 03, 2022, 03:12:06 PM
Think about retail price in Japan for Fit & UK Honda £ there's something amiss...
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Jazzik on September 03, 2022, 08:30:10 PM
I do like to drive around in an "exclusive" (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/verschiedene/a014.gif) Honda Jazz Mk4 EX(ecutive)!
Two weeks holiday to the Netherlands, we drove a total of 3000 km. (1865 mi) and how many did I come across in Poland, Germany and the Netherlands?
Two!!!

In the Netherlands a Platinum White Pearl and a Premium Crystal Red Metallic in Germany.
Just as exclusive as a Ferrari or a Bentley (but certainly a lot cheaper and a lot more economical!).
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Saycol on September 03, 2022, 08:31:31 PM
So why didn’t they promote the Crosstar which does have small SUV looks?

Well because it doesn’t really, does it? An SUV? It is literally a Jazz with extra plastic and 15mm more suspension height.

Toyota have managed to do it with the Yaris Cross. Using your description (amended), a Yaris with extra plastic and extra ride height. It often features in car comparisons of small SUVs. In my opinion Honda got their marketing wrong as the Crosstar wording and promotion was lifestyle, pictures of surfing etc. But by also labelling it Jazz this in the U.K. at any rate automatically associates it with the older driver, which won’t help sell them to younger people.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: richardfrost on September 04, 2022, 04:09:34 AM
So why didn’t they promote the Crosstar which does have small SUV looks?

Well because it doesn’t really, does it? An SUV? It is literally a Jazz with extra plastic and 15mm more suspension height.

Toyota have managed to do it with the Yaris Cross. Using your description (amended), a Yaris with extra plastic and extra ride height. It often features in car comparisons of small SUVs. In my opinion Honda got their marketing wrong as the Crosstar wording and promotion was lifestyle, pictures of surfing etc. But by also labelling it Jazz this in the U.K. at any rate automatically associates it with the older driver, which won’t help sell them to younger people.

I don’t think that comparison works. The Yaris Cross looks substantially different, and is available as a 4x4. It’s  significantly longer, higher chunkier. https://uk.motor1.com/news/414861/yaris-vs-yaris-cross-differences/
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Pine on September 04, 2022, 09:30:31 AM
I have just got back from a few days away.  In the hotel car park there was a Crosstar and a Yaris Cross parked next to each other.  The Crosstar was a shinny dark grey and it looked good in that colour.  Side by side the Yaris Cross looked a much bigger car.  It is also looks substantially bigger than standard Yaris and is obviously not just a jacked-up Yaris.  I have a Corolla and although the Yaris Cross is slightly shorter and narrower its extra height, raised bonnet and chunky appearance make it look bigger.  It also has a good sized boot. 
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Karoq on September 04, 2022, 11:20:15 AM
I have heard rumours that Honda may be considering doing a 'Mitsubishi' & pull out of U.K.
The Ozzies also are worried for the same reason!

My dealer denies it of course. Personally I doubt it. Surely they would not be launching the new Civic and going on about their massive ;electrification' programme coming in '23 & '24.

It would be SO sad if they do.

I have seen a couple of MKiv Jazzs in the Poole area and only one HR-V eHEV.
Yet Horizon told me that have sold a couple of dozen HR-Vs. Of course not all live in Poole and I don't know what their other 3 branches have sold.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: RichardA on September 04, 2022, 11:45:20 AM
I rarely watch TV and never listen to commercial radio, but do Honda have any advertising in the UK? Can't be helping.

They had an advert on the radio for the CR-V about its electric tailgate, like found on an Accord estate 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Rory on September 04, 2022, 12:33:30 PM
I have heard rumours that Honda may be considering doing a 'Mitsubishi' & pull out of U.K.
The Ozzies also are worried for the same reason!

My dealer denies it of course.

Our local dealer, Cheshire Oaks, added MG a while ago.

Who knows what would have happened if they'd done nothing, but Honda so messed up around here by firing the excellent Two Mills and Saunders in Chester and giving the franchise to Holdcroft.  Holdcroft were horrible to deal with on sales and even worse on service - we don't use them now and won't be buying another car off them, and with Honda dealers so thin on the ground now there isn't another choice of dealer.

We used to find ourselves in mini-convoys of Jazzs locally but they're a rare sight now, and I've only ever seen a couple of HRVs.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Kremmen on September 04, 2022, 02:47:05 PM
Before I bought the Jazz I looked at reviews and a consistent theme was that the Toyota 3 pot was noisier and coarser than the 4 pot Jazz.

Both were reviewed as 1.5
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: richardfrost on September 04, 2022, 06:08:10 PM
I have just got back from a few days away.  In the hotel car park there was a Crosstar and a Yaris Cross parked next to each other.  The Crosstar was a shinny dark grey and it looked good in that colour.  Side by side the Yaris Cross looked a much bigger car.  It is also looks substantially bigger than standard Yaris and is obviously not just a jacked-up Yaris.  I have a Corolla and although the Yaris Cross is slightly shorter and narrower its extra height, raised bonnet and chunky appearance make it look bigger.  It also has a good sized boot.

I had a good look at the Yaris Cross a couple of weeks ago when my RAV4 was in for servicing and MOT. It is actually surprisingly cramped inside, in my opinion, not helped by the very dark interior colour scheme and smaller glass area. It put me off as previously I was quite interested in this vehicle.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Jazzik on September 04, 2022, 06:44:46 PM

I had a good look at the Yaris Cross a couple of weeks ago when my RAV4 was in for servicing and MOT. It is actually surprisingly cramped inside.

...and then you forgot to mention that, besides that it is quite cramped especially in the back seat, the rear doors hardly open a crack. The front doors marginally better.
And that's no understatement: Try installing a child seat, not to mention filling that seat with an unwilling toddler. Good luck! That's a bit (or a lot?) more convenient in the Jazz...
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Nicksey on September 04, 2022, 07:05:36 PM
Having moved allegiance from Renault, previously owning 12 in the last 25 years (the last 6 all brand new, the other 6 never more than 2 years old) I can only give the reason we decided to switch, which was Renault were building cars that outwardly got bigger with each generation. The car which I have now, and the trade in for my new Jazz is a Clio (TCE100 which is a 3 pot 900cc). Before the Clio we had 3 Capturs. We downsized the last Captur because the latest version got bigger. We looked at the way cars were getting bigger, but never really benefitted internally. I never had any issues or problems with any Renault we owned. Mechanically sound, economical and cheap to run and service. Ultimately, this time we looked at a small, reliable, technically advanced motor... but something that would give us a versatile internal space. We do a lot of cycling, camping, outdoors type things and we're also aware of the ecological impact bigger cars are having.
I honestly believe that the SUV (pointless) bubble will eventually burst, and smaller cars will once again become fashionable. The Jazz may not be the most attractive package on the outside, but its certainly got a lot more advantages than larger cars.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: 123Drive! on September 05, 2022, 01:20:13 AM
Unfortunately in the UK, the Jazz is seen as a car for "older drivers"! So Polo, Fiesta and Corsa takes all the sales from "younger drivers". Then financially, the Yaris has been offering 0% APR until recently but Jazz can only do 5% or something like that. And then there's the issue of availability -My friend wanted to purchase a Crosstar back in March and was told it wasn't available at all but Yaris Cross was available for end of September! Had the Jazz been made in Swindon, may be they would have shifted a few more units. I guess Honda can see the SUV market growing so aren't really concerned about the supermini sector anymore.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: MartinJG on September 05, 2022, 10:34:59 AM
The one thing that strikes me about the modern mass motor 'car' industry is their lack of originality. They seem hell bent on being followers of fashion to the extent they increasingly morph into one. I think a lot of it is to do with the bottom line and staying in business where risk of failure is a major consideration. For me, the current trend in fussy body lines and styling and an obsession with virtual technology in and out of the cabin all point to an industry that has run out of ideas. Looking back over the years, there are standout models which set the pace and trends, be it the Mini, the Golf or indeed the Jazz. I want a car to be reliable, reasonably engaging to drive with a design that looks half decent and practicality to match. It's not rocket science. I drove a Renault Cactus a couple of years ago (hire car) and it was awful. Full of gadgets and it felt like driving a motorised armchair with no engagement on the road. From time to time, I run my eye over the motorbike industry as an ex bike owner. The Honda CB500 range has been a huge success and continues to sell. Why? Value for money, simplicity, rock solid reliability using largely conventional technology such as cable throttles (remember them), outstanding fuel economy 80-85 MPG, superb and predictable handling, and quick enough to get a move on if necessary. This is a formula for success and Honda are smart enough to recognise that in this case.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Nicksey on September 05, 2022, 02:10:28 PM
The one thing that strikes me about the modern mass motor 'car' industry is their lack of originality. They seem hell bent on being followers of fashion to the extent they increasingly morph into one. I think a lot of it is to do with the bottom line and staying in business where risk of failure is a major consideration. For me, the current trend in fussy body lines and styling and an obsession with virtual technology in and out of the cabin all point to an industry that has run out of ideas. Looking back over the years, there are standout models which set the pace and trends, be it the Mini, the Golf or indeed the Jazz. I want a car to be reliable, reasonably engaging to drive with a design that looks half decent and practicality to match. It's not rocket science. I drove a Renault Cactus a couple of years ago (hire car) and it was awful. Full of gadgets and it felt like driving a motorised armchair with no engagement on the road. From time to time, I run my eye over the motorbike industry as an ex bike owner. The Honda CB500 range has been a huge success and continues to sell. Why? Value for money, simplicity, rock solid reliability using largely conventional technology such as cable throttles (remember them), outstanding fuel economy 80-85 MPG, superb and predictable handling, and quick enough to get a move on if necessary. This is a formula for success and Honda are smart enough to recognise that in this case.

Yes, agreed. As an ex biker I agree about the Honda too (although I am a staunch Triumph man). I have just turned 60, but in no way do I class my self as a conventional 'oldie' 60 year old. I bought the Jazz because it offered a high level of practicality.

Incidentally, the Cactus is Citroen.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Kenneve on September 05, 2022, 03:11:35 PM
Unfortunately in the UK, the Jazz is seen as a car for "older drivers"! So Polo, Fiesta and Corsa takes all the sales from "younger drivers".
It's quite obvious to me that the 'younger drivers' have never experienced/tried the Jazz, particularly the Mk4.
I have no doubt that the Mk4 Jazz will 'see off' any Polo, Fiesta or Corsa, with it's superior EV power plus a 1500cc engine. ;D
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: 123Drive! on September 05, 2022, 07:42:14 PM
Unfortunately in the UK, the Jazz is seen as a car for "older drivers"! So Polo, Fiesta and Corsa takes all the sales from "younger drivers".
It's quite obvious to me that the 'younger drivers' have never experienced/tried the Jazz, particularly the Mk4.
I have no doubt that the Mk4 Jazz will 'see off' any Polo, Fiesta or Corsa, with it's superior EV power plus a 1500cc engine. ;D

For a start, reliability will beat the three any time...but unfortunately when the Jazz is tested by motor journalist, they never like it. Anyway lets hope Honda wouldn't stop making them in the near future. P s. I got to say though I was disappointed they didn't make a Jazz EV for the mk4...I would definitely have brought one instead of ordering a Mokka E.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: MartinJG on September 05, 2022, 07:46:56 PM
The one thing that strikes me about the modern mass motor 'car' industry is their lack of originality. They seem hell bent on being followers of fashion to the extent they increasingly morph into one. I think a lot of it is to do with the bottom line and staying in business where risk of failure is a major consideration. For me, the current trend in fussy body lines and styling and an obsession with virtual technology in and out of the cabin all point to an industry that has run out of ideas. Looking back over the years, there are standout models which set the pace and trends, be it the Mini, the Golf or indeed the Jazz. I want a car to be reliable, reasonably engaging to drive with a design that looks half decent and practicality to match. It's not rocket science. I drove a Renault Cactus a couple of years ago (hire car) and it was awful. Full of gadgets and it felt like driving a motorised armchair with no engagement on the road. From time to time, I run my eye over the motorbike industry as an ex bike owner. The Honda CB500 range has been a huge success and continues to sell. Why? Value for money, simplicity, rock solid reliability using largely conventional technology such as cable throttles (remember them), outstanding fuel economy 80-85 MPG, superb and predictable handling, and quick enough to get a move on if necessary. This is a formula for success and Honda are smart enough to recognise that in this case.

Yes, agreed. As an ex biker I agree about the Honda too (although I am a staunch Triumph man). I have just turned 60, but in no way do I class my self as a conventional 'oldie' 60 year old. I bought the Jazz because it offered a high level of practicality.

Incidentally, the Cactus is Citroen.

Yes, you are quite right about the Cactus being Citroen. I knew it was French but I was on a bit of a roll. Are you ever tempted back into the saddle?
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Kremmen on September 06, 2022, 06:06:28 AM
I had 3 Citroen Xantias but I would never buy French again, for political reasons.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Jazzik on September 06, 2022, 10:13:06 AM
.

(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c078.gif)

Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: Nicksey on September 06, 2022, 03:20:07 PM
The one thing that strikes me about the modern mass motor 'car' industry is their lack of originality. They seem hell bent on being followers of fashion to the extent they increasingly morph into one. I think a lot of it is to do with the bottom line and staying in business where risk of failure is a major consideration. For me, the current trend in fussy body lines and styling and an obsession with virtual technology in and out of the cabin all point to an industry that has run out of ideas. Looking back over the years, there are standout models which set the pace and trends, be it the Mini, the Golf or indeed the Jazz. I want a car to be reliable, reasonably engaging to drive with a design that looks half decent and practicality to match. It's not rocket science. I drove a Renault Cactus a couple of years ago (hire car) and it was awful. Full of gadgets and it felt like driving a motorised armchair with no engagement on the road. From time to time, I run my eye over the motorbike industry as an ex bike owner. The Honda CB500 range has been a huge success and continues to sell. Why? Value for money, simplicity, rock solid reliability using largely conventional technology such as cable throttles (remember them), outstanding fuel economy 80-85 MPG, superb and predictable handling, and quick enough to get a move on if necessary. This is a formula for success and Honda are smart enough to recognise that in this case.

Yes, agreed. As an ex biker I agree about the Honda too (although I am a staunch Triumph man). I have just turned 60, but in no way do I class my self as a conventional 'oldie' 60 year old. I bought the Jazz because it offered a high level of practicality.

Incidentally, the Cactus is Citroen.

Yes, you are quite right about the Cactus being Citroen. I knew it was French but I was on a bit of a roll. Are you ever tempted back into the saddle?

No, but it doesn't mean I don't miss it. I watched a few mates get killed though no fault of their own, watched the roads get more dangerous and the level of driving standards fall. However, it was a couple of medical issues that finally got me off the bike. My neck has a few problems, so wearing a helmet AND the possibility of getting knocked off damaging my neck further... coupled with the fact that my hip was becoming problematic, so kicking off a Triumph was getting harder each time. Funnily, its the building/restoration of a bike that I miss more than the riding.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: MartinJG on September 11, 2022, 03:43:44 PM
The one thing that strikes me about the modern mass motor 'car' industry is their lack of originality. They seem hell bent on being followers of fashion to the extent they increasingly morph into one. I think a lot of it is to do with the bottom line and staying in business where risk of failure is a major consideration. For me, the current trend in fussy body lines and styling and an obsession with virtual technology in and out of the cabin all point to an industry that has run out of ideas. Looking back over the years, there are standout models which set the pace and trends, be it the Mini, the Golf or indeed the Jazz. I want a car to be reliable, reasonably engaging to drive with a design that looks half decent and practicality to match. It's not rocket science. I drove a Renault Cactus a couple of years ago (hire car) and it was awful. Full of gadgets and it felt like driving a motorised armchair with no engagement on the road. From time to time, I run my eye over the motorbike industry as an ex bike owner. The Honda CB500 range has been a huge success and continues to sell. Why? Value for money, simplicity, rock solid reliability using largely conventional technology such as cable throttles (remember them), outstanding fuel economy 80-85 MPG, superb and predictable handling, and quick enough to get a move on if necessary. This is a formula for success and Honda are smart enough to recognise that in this case.

Yes, agreed. As an ex biker I agree about the Honda too (although I am a staunch Triumph man). I have just turned 60, but in no way do I class my self as a conventional 'oldie' 60 year old. I bought the Jazz because it offered a high level of practicality.

Incidentally, the Cactus is Citroen.

Yes, you are quite right about the Cactus being Citroen. I knew it was French but I was on a bit of a roll. Are you ever tempted back into the saddle?

No, but it doesn't mean I don't miss it. I watched a few mates get killed though no fault of their own, watched the roads get more dangerous and the level of driving standards fall. However, it was a couple of medical issues that finally got me off the bike. My neck has a few problems, so wearing a helmet AND the possibility of getting knocked off damaging my neck further... coupled with the fact that my hip was becoming problematic, so kicking off a Triumph was getting harder each time. Funnily, its the building/restoration of a bike that I miss more than the riding.

Yep. Memories can play tricks. Stiff and ageing joints can play hell :). Totally agree on the roads today. Bad enough having to think for other road users from the relative safety of four wheels.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: 5thcivic on September 13, 2022, 12:52:15 PM
Before I bought the E I looked at the Zoe which had probbaly the best range at the time in terms of value. It was cheap on the inside and not very nice to drive, the E is a totally different class if you can put up with the range as a shopping car and have charging at home. The Zoe also has a terrible reliability record which reviewers rarely mention.
Title: Re: Mk5 Jazz will be a mini SUV (similar to the Yaris Cross)
Post by: R2D3 on September 13, 2022, 03:35:14 PM
I had 3 Citroen Xantias but I would never buy French again, for political reasons.

Why so?  Have you been reading the Daily Mail by any chance?