Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Hugh R on December 21, 2021, 03:43:39 PM
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Weird and quite alarming thing happened this afternoon after locking and parking the car and going for a walk. Returned and unlocked: but trying to start car in the normal way the steering simply locked, complete with locked wheel sign on dash, plus amongst all the other signs illuminated was the battery (certainly fully charged anyway). Then dashboard asked for foot on brake while pressing start, which of course is the normal way to start the car (which I had just done.) Did this but nothing changed. Turned off, turned on, same thing with same request. Waited, undid and refastened safety belts, turned on, same thing, same repeated request. Turned off and all was repeated. Everything just locked up.
Before phoning Honda Assist decided to get out of car, lock it and unlock it and get in again. Whereupon everything was normal.
Anyone any ideas?
One small thing I did on first leaving the car was something (I think) I have not done before, which was to put the parking brake on after everything had been turned off. Would this have started the problem?
Certainly rather frightening and something I don't want to happen again.
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You can't normally turn off without it being in Park.
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Was this the meter warning you got?
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You can't normally turn off without it being in Park.
It wouldn't get out of park at any time!
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Was this the meter warning you got?
No. It was the 'brake pedal + arrow to start button' sign.
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Do you have a voltmeter? Maybe the battery had/is failing and can't hold a full charge anymore.
I used to have one that plugged in to the cigarette lighter socket so you could see the voltage in accessory mode and also the reading when fully powered up.
The problem with hybrids is you don't get the normal warning signs of a battery going bad - all they have to do is boot up the computers.
A low voltage can cause all sorts of apparent electrical issues, maybe there wasn't enough power to fully run the start up sequence and unlock the wheel lock?
It's strange it worked after the car was locked and unlocked though.
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Page 128 of the online manual has a few similar.
They are linked to trying to change the parking brake without pressing the brake pedal.
Similar but not identical.
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Yes I have a volt meter plugged into the cigarette lighter which registered 11.4 before start-up. Less than 500 miles on clock so unlikely it's battery I think.
But does anyone know/remember if the red battery icon lights up on first turning on before ignition? As far as I remember it stayed on throughout the incident, even if engine was running or not.
But of course it started with no problem after exiting and re-trying.
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Page 128 of the online manual has a few similar.
They are linked to trying to change the parking brake without pressing the brake pedal.
Similar but not identical.
Could well be, so thanks for that. I may well have confused the car - and I think the red handbrake light never went out throughout the problem - can't be sure as in a semi-panic!
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11.4 volts indicates a flat battery (unless that was a typo ) . Just checked mine on a frosty morning and its 12.4 volts. A fully charged battery should read. 12.6 volts, but I'm not unduly concerned with 12.4 v The car had a 50 mile trip yesterday.
If yours really is 11.4 volts that may explain the gremlins. .But the battery may not be faulty. Its relatively small , and has recently spent 2 months idle on a ship from Japan. If your 500 miles has been mostly short ,cold, journeys it may simply not have had opportunity to get a decent charge.
Although the car can charge the high voltage battery amazingly quickly due to different technology and cooling fans etc, that doesnt mean the 12 volt battery is also charged super fast. There is a limit to how many charging amps a conventional lead acid battery can take.
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Anything less than 12.2v the battery needs charging.
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If mine stands for more than 14 days then it gets a CTEK
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Weird and quite alarming thing happened this afternoon after locking and parking the car and going for a walk. Returned and unlocked: but trying to start car in the normal way the steering simply locked, complete with locked wheel sign on dash, plus amongst all the other signs illuminated was the battery (certainly fully charged anyway). Then dashboard asked for foot on brake while pressing start, which of course is the normal way to start the car (which I had just done.) Did this but nothing changed. Turned off, turned on, same thing with same request. Waited, undid and refastened safety belts, turned on, same thing, same repeated request. Turned off and all was repeated. Everything just locked up.
Before phoning Honda Assist decided to get out of car, lock it and unlock it and get in again. Whereupon everything was normal.
Anyone any ideas?
One small thing I did on first leaving the car was something (I think) I have not done before, which was to put the parking brake on after everything had been turned off. Would this have started the problem?
Certainly rather frightening and something I don't want to happen again.
If it help I had my new jazz in June 21, the battery failed me 3 times up to August ( recovery on all occasions) Vertu kept charging it said it was fine, on the 4 time (Recovery again) I insisted that they put on another battery, they did & it’s been no problem since.
My car had been in the showroom I don’t know how long but was told it was due to it being there & people pressing stuff with no engine running at all till I got it.
Just a thought
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Since most of my journeys are short cold urban ones, I may need to employ my Draper 'Jump box'. Good job I've got one!
I also use a plug in voltmeter all the time on al my cars. I agree with the comments above re voltages. when running it shows 14.6v.
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One of the PDI items dealers are supposed to do is run a battery tester on the battery (usually a midtronic) and if it says it needs charged then to charge it up fully on a charger, or replace if it says it’s bad.
I doubt many do it though, they just assume as it’s a new car it should be fine.
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Re battery.
Car left for 12 days Edinburgh airport car park first part of this month, no indication of any problem.
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Thanks for all your very interesting thoughts. So I've just taken the car out today for a one hour run. On turn on cigarette voltmeter gizmo showed again around 11.6v On start up it went to 12.3 and within a second to 14.3 where it stayed the whole journey.
In my case the car never saw the showroom, owning it as soon as it was delivered.
I don't think my case is particularly unusual from many Jazz owners. I live in Canterbury in the centre of the city and have to park in the road so no chance of trickle charge etc. Also unlikely to want to take the car on extended journeys more than once a month. So if these non-daily short journeys are not good for the battery (or the car??) and the battery is not very strong, is it possible or sensible, to get a higher rated brand of battery that will keep its charge longer?
Otherwise it's difficult to think of an answer, apart from taking the car on one or two hour trips every week.
And please people, don't suggest selling the car and taking a taxi. I like my clever little Jazz far too much.
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One thing you can do is sit in the car with it powered up once a week for maybe 60 minutes (and read the paper/etc.)
The engine won't be running the whole time. If you turn off the climate control it won't run much at all but the 12V battery will be charging all the time the car is powered up - just the same as if you were taking it on a long trip.
It's what I did with my Auris hybrid during lockdown 1, as Toyota 12V batteries are particularly poor and I also can't use a trickle charger.
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Thanks for all your very interesting thoughts. So I've just taken the car out today for a one hour run. On turn on cigarette voltmeter gizmo showed again around 11.6v On start up it went to 12.3 and within a second to 14.3 where it stayed the whole journey.
In my case the car never saw the showroom, owning it as soon as it was delivered.
I don't think my case is particularly unusual from many Jazz owners. I live in Canterbury in the centre of the city and have to park in the road so no chance of trickle charge etc. Also unlikely to want to take the car on extended journeys more than once a month. So if these non-daily short journeys are not good for the battery (or the car??) and the battery is not very strong, is it possible or sensible, to get a higher rated brand of battery that will keep its charge longer?
Otherwise it's difficult to think of an answer, apart from taking the car on one or two hour trips every week.
And please people, don't suggest selling the car and taking a taxi. I like my clever little Jazz far too much.
If you dont have access to power for a trickle charger your best option might be to buy a jump start power pack. You could keep it charged up at home. Probably cost less than a replacement battery. I have my doubts that the smaller ones can actually start a conventional car, but may work well as a portable charger to give the battery a quick top up.
another possibility is a solar powered battery maintenance trickle charger, that plugs into the OBD2 port. These only give a very low trickle charge,so its not really an alternative to a mains charger, and might struggle in winter. But quick and easy to plug in and might be enough that you wont ever need to jump start the car . Ideally have both ;) I have never used a solar charger and would be interested to hear opinions on them.
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I have a portable jump pack - ones the size of a large paperback book can actually start a large engined car... however the problem with many jump packs is that the leads aren't long enough to connect to both the positive battery terminal and to the one earth point the manual says you must use :(
They are fine on a normal car where you can connect them to the battery terminals, or to a very nearby earth point.
With hybrids, you don't actually need much power at all - just enough to get the correct 12V level to boot up the computers and the big battery then takes over.
I did hear of someone managing to boot up a Prius with just a small pocket battery.
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another possibility is a solar powered battery maintenance trickle charger, that plugs into the OBD2 port. These only give a very low trickle charge,so its not really an alternative to a mains charger, and might struggle in winter. But quick and easy to plug in and might be enough that you wont ever need to jump start the car . Ideally have both ;) I have never used a solar charger and would be interested to hear opinions on them.
I had one and used it as you describe on previous car (Mercedes A160, the shape that Honda used for the Jazz) and found it fairly useless so sold it when I bought the Jazz. Even if I'd kept it I might not use it as so weak and a nuisance to store and plug into OBD2.
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I had one and used it as you describe on previous car (Mercedes A160, the shape that Honda used for the Jazz) and found it fairly useless so sold it when I bought the Jazz. Even if I'd kept it I might not use it as so weak and a nuisance to store and plug into OBD2.
Ideally, a solar charger needs to be positioned where it can get some direct sunshine. The charge generated from ambient light, particularly during the winter, is minimal.
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My neighbour has a 55 plate Fiesta and does about 200 miles a year ! Just goes to the tip, MOT and service.
He has one on his dash plugged into the fag socket, which must be permanently active. He reckons It keeps his battery topped up.
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I have a portable jump pack - ones the size of a large paperback book can actually start a large engined car... however the problem with many jump packs is that the leads aren't long enough to connect to both the positive battery terminal and to the one earth point the manual says you must use :(
I must look at the manual to find where this earth point is. Would it be dangerous to use the jump leads in the normal way i.e. one to plus, one to negative?
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I have a portable jump pack - ones the size of a large paperback book can actually start a large engined car... however the problem with many jump packs is that the leads aren't long enough to connect to both the positive battery terminal and to the one earth point the manual says you must use :(
I must look at the manual to find where this earth point is. Would it be dangerous to use the jump leads in the normal way i.e. one to plus, one to negative?
Probably not, if all you're doing is bootstrapping the ECU and other 12V systems.
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Where to attach the leads is covered in the manual.
Positive to battery pos and negative to the body, opposite side of the engine somewhere.
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I've noted what others say about solar chargers but have ordered a little 3 watt solar maintenance charger. This is only about 0.25 amps in good sunlight , but I'm hoping that even in winter it will be enough to replace normal parasitic battery loss or at least delay problems.
It would be better to charge the car properly and give it regular runs . But covid permitting there is a possibility my car will be unattended for quite long periods. You can get more powerful panels but then i'd be worried it would over charge. I'll see how it goes.
I may also buy a little 20000 mAh battery pack, which should be enough to power up the jazz systems in an emergency. (Although |I'd rather prevent it going flat at all.) £24 wont break the bank , and it has other uses.
I had thought this could also serve as a self contained charger for those who need to keep the battery topped up without mains electricity . On reflection the time spent doing this might be better spent starting the car up and giving it a run.
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We have used a 10amp 12volt/18 volt solar panel about the size of an A4 sheet of paper and very slim laying on dashboard for almost 2 years and this has been superb so much in fact that the stop start always working so I suspect it is very much doing the job.
It is plugged into ODB socket with a cable a plug from Halfords.
This setup was recommended by Culzean and has proved superb, during the very long shutdowns and never had a flat battery since.
May I send Christmas Greetings to you all and a healthy happy and prosperous New Year.
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We have used a 10amp 12volt/18 volt solar panel about the size of an A4 sheet of paper and very slim laying on dashboard for almost 2 years and this has been superb so much in fact that the stop start always working so I suspect it is very much doing the job.
It is plugged into ODB socket with a cable a plug from Halfords.
This setup was recommended by Culzean and has proved superb, during the very long shutdowns and never had a flat battery since.
May I send Christmas Greetings to you all and a healthy happy and prosperous New Year.
the 'AA' branded one I ordered on fleabay cost £24,and includes an obd2 adapter. The adapter alone costs £13 in Halfords . If I find I need more amps I only need buy the panel.
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We have used a 10amp 12volt/18 volt solar panel about the size of an A4 sheet of paper and very slim laying on dashboard for almost 2 years and this has been superb so much in fact that the stop start always working so I suspect it is very much doing the job.
It is plugged into ODB socket with a cable a plug from Halfords.
This setup was recommended by Culzean and has proved superb, during the very long shutdowns and never had a flat battery since.
May I send Christmas Greetings to you all and a healthy happy and prosperous New Year.
the 'AA' branded one I ordered on fleabay cost £24,and includes an obd2 adapter. The adapter alone costs £13 in Halfords . If I find I need more amps I only need buy the panel.
The Halfords adapter cost a paltry £9.00 when purchased.
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Looking through this thread and others it seems only one of us (BestwoodRoadie) has had to replace the 12 V battery. IF this is CORRECT, then maybe the car is happy with what it has and we are making too much of a fuss of it?!
I wonder if anyone knows the precise amount of juice the 12v battery needs simply at start-up to get the computer going before the engine kicks in?
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All 12v car systems after pushing power switch twice without brake pedal pressed eat’s 8 amps from 12v battery.