Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: aphybrid on October 10, 2021, 11:17:18 AM
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These can be quite a nice enhancement to a car but the cost seems a bit much.
Does anyone know if all the connections exist in the basic cars to allow some DIY of fitmant or possible use of non OEM kit?
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I had the rear cargo LED illumination option fitted - I think it was just a plug in new light unit.
I'm not sure about the front ones though, but I've found the standard illumination to be very good in the Jazz.
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All modern cars use an electrical system called 'CANBUS'. (Don't ask how ir works, I haven't a clue, but I'm sure someone here will explain)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
Do any DIY fiddling AT YOUR PERIL! You are almost guaranteed to b*gger the system.
This is why it is so difficult to fit a tow bar to anything. The days of connecting trailer electrics to the cars wiring loom using 'Scotchlocks' are long gone!
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All modern cars use an electrical system called 'CANBUS'. (Don't ask how ir works, I haven't a clue, but I'm sure someone here will explain)
It's a two wire signalling system which runs at about 500kbps in its most basic form. I have worked with it.
Often a vehicle has several CANBUS networks for different functions. For example, the infotainment system will be on a different network to the engine control systems, with a gateway box connecting them. If this wasn't the case, a rogue infotainment system could jam the network or send unwelcome commands to other components. (Yes, this has happened.)
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Up until MK2 ( GE ) Honda did not use CANBUS, things are still individually wired, do not know about later models. In a CANBUS system every sensor and everything that needs switching is a 'node' and has an address that the master controller can speak to. It simplifies the wiring ( in the normal German way of simplifying stuff LOL ) as you now only need two power cables to each device, which also carry signals, but makes 'peripherals' expensive to replace because they now have to have electronic bits in them... The Japanese seem to work on 'evolution' rather than 'revolution' ( if it ain't broke - don't fix it ) - the canbus system can also measure the power being used by each device, and if a device like a bulb fails and the current drops it will signal a fault. The CANBUS friendly LED bulbs you see advertised are needed because an LED draws a fraction of the current that a filament bulb does and would signal a fault, the CANBUS LED has to have a resistor in parallel with the LED to make it draw more current to satisfy the CANBUS system that the bulb has not failed. My brother needed to replace the interior cabin light bulb on his Skoda, could not just replace the bulb, had to buy a new plug-in unit containing a bulb.
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It simplifies the wiring ( in the normal German way of simplifying stuff LOL ) as you now only need two power cables to each device, which also carry signals...
Actually, you can't draw power from the bus. There are two signal cables (it's a quasi-differential pair) as well as the usual battery and ground.
The wires both float at about 2.5V when inactive (a "1"). When active (a "0") one is raised to 3.5V and the other dropped to 1.5V. The receiver looks at the difference in voltage between the wires. Less than 0.5V is a "1" and more than that is a "0".
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Actually, you can't draw power from the bus. There are two signal cables (it's a quasi-differential pair) as well as the usual battery and ground.
You appear to have answered something I was wondering. There are wires carrying proper current as well as the low current signalling wires?
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...Ordered the pack but not seen it yet to tell what or how it's actually fitted. I assumed out of all the packs available it would be one of the harder ones to self fit.
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You appear to have answered something I was wondering. There are wires carrying proper current as well as the low current signalling wires?
You can put load current and signals through same pair of cables, happens all the time in industry, ASi bus was an industrial system flat twin cable carrying both 24VDC power and signals, the signals can easily be filtered out from the DC of the BUSS. Also those homeplug ethernet devices carry both 230volts AC and the ethernet signal over the twin and earth cable of your house or business using the live and neutral conductors.... easy peasy
The one hangup in very high speed networks seems to be that using only the power cables for both signal and data may result in very slight delays in signals. Having said that the Gigabit powerline adaptors can handle 1000Mbps and some up to 1200Mbps.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224101282_Assessment_of_CAN_performance_for_Powerline_Communications_in_dc_differential_buses
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I had the rear cargo LED illumination option fitted - I think it was just a plug in new light unit.
I'm not sure about the front ones though, but I've found the standard illumination to be very good in the Jazz.
I just swopped the capless bulb in the rear cargo for a much brighter capless led that I had spare from doing the same with my HRV 6 years ago. Cost around £2,00 for two. The light fitting appears to be exactly the same in each car.
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These can be quite a nice enhancement to a car but the cost seems a bit much.
Does anyone know if all the connections exist in the basic cars to allow some DIY of fitmant or possible use of non OEM kit?
If I remember correctly the list price was something like £850, but I was charged around £300.
The lighting in the footwells, door pockets and centre console is quite low level but the illuminated JAZZ scuff plates on the front sills look really good.
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You appear to have answered something I was wondering. There are wires carrying proper current as well as the low current signalling wires?
You can put load current and signals through same pair of cables, happens all the time in industry, ASi bus was an industrial system flat twin cable carrying both 24VDC power and signals, the signals can easily be filtered out from the DC of the BUSS. Also those homeplug ethernet devices carry both 230volts AC and the ethernet signal over the twin and earth cable of your house or business using the live and neutral conductors.... easy peasy
Absolutely not. CAN bus does not carry any power on the same wires as the signals. Both idle at 2.5V at high impedance. One (CANH) is pulled up to 4.5v to become active and the other (CANL) is pulled down to 1.5V to become active. Battery power at a nominal 13.6V has to come by some other means than the two signal wires. Often there are just four wires in the harness: BAT, CANH, CANL, Ground. I have helped design and troubleshoot automotive infotainment kit and needed to know these things.
And Homeplug Ethernet signals using carrier frequencies between the neutral and earth pins. That's how it's able to cross phases in three phase installations.
You can supply power in differential circuits using just three wires (eg. phantom power to microphones).
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I just swopped the capless bulb in the rear cargo for a much brighter capless led that I had spare from doing the same with my HRV 6 years ago. Cost around £2,00 for two. The light fitting appears to be exactly the same in each car.
I did wonder about the dealer fit LED unit at £50 v just swapping bulbs.
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I asked because in Fiesta just sold I found wired connections for footwells and just bought the bulb holders to which I fitted red LEDs instead of the normal capless type. Similar change on the ford boot light with no problems. I think Fiesta has CANBUS - will look to see if same can be done in Crosstar - smallest change possible?
My ignorance of car electrics has been reduced significantly by all of responses, thanks to all again.
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As far as illumination packs are concerned I did find the footwell lights useful on my IS200 to see what I was doing when vacuuming the carpets in the garage :)
Not so much of an issue now because I've fitted 2 x 5' twin LED battens so the garage lights up far better than the old fluorescents.
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.. Often there are just four wires in the harness: BAT, CANH, CANL, Ground.
So, to check, could BAT and Ground be used to power a device outside of the Canbus system, for instance, a light
Presumably the BAT line is fused.
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...Ordered the pack but not seen it yet to tell what or how it's actually fitted. I assumed out of all the packs available it would be one of the harder ones to self fit.
Great tp hear your feed pack when kit received
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.. Often there are just four wires in the harness: BAT, CANH, CANL, Ground.
So, to check, could BAT and Ground be used to power a device outside of the Canbus system, for instance, a light
Presumably the BAT line is fused.
One would hope so. Bear in mind that its cabling might not be rated to take a high current and might not be switched with the ignition.
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.. Often there are just four wires in the harness: BAT, CANH, CANL, Ground.
So, to check, could BAT and Ground be used to power a device outside of the Canbus system, for instance, a light
Presumably the BAT line is fused.
One would hope so. Bear in mind that its cabling might not be rated to take a high current and might not be switched with the ignition.
Well, my thinking is that there must be a local source of power for the gizmo's that the Canbus controls. For example, door locks are told to operate by a signal on the data bus but they would need a decent current to operate their solenoid. I understand the purpose of the Canbus system is to remove the need for dedicated power cable to each device on the car; the cars processor(s) sends out a signal on low voltage data cables.
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I understand the purpose of the Canbus system is to remove the need for dedicated power cable to each device on the car; the cars processor(s) sends out a signal on low voltage data cables.
They tend to be powered in groups per function via the fusebox. For example all door locks are likely to be powered through the same fuse, the same for the window motors, etc. etc.
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...Ordered the pack but not seen it yet to tell what or how it's actually fitted. I assumed out of all the packs available it would be one of the harder ones to self fit.
Great tp hear your feed pack when kit received
...Sorry I think that came across as I'd ordered the kit with the intention of fitting it myself when in fact I've chosen the pack and it will be installed in the car before delivery.
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These can be quite a nice enhancement to a car but the cost seems a bit much.
Does anyone know if all the connections exist in the basic cars to allow some DIY of fitmant or possible use of non OEM kit?
If I remember correctly the list price was something like £850, but I was charged around £300.
The lighting in the footwells, door pockets and centre console is quite low level but the illuminated JAZZ scuff plates on the front sills look really good.
Was kit cost direct from dealer.
Best off from mine is £775 fitted as opposed to 'list' of £875
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...Ordered the pack but not seen it yet to tell what or how it's actually fitted. I assumed out of all the packs available it would be one of the harder ones to self fit.
Great tp hear your feed pack when kit received
...Sorry I think that came across as I'd ordered the kit with the intention of fitting it myself when in fact I've chosen the pack and it will be installed in the car before delivery.
Can I hire you next time to negotiate purchase!! Well done.
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...Mine was £390 weirdly
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I have found online from Glyn Hopkins a price for individual Illumination options;
Doorstep Garnishes PN: 08E12-TZA-600 - £309
Centre Console PN: 08E11-TZA-600 - £183
Door Lining Illumination PN: 08E20-TZA-600 - £233
White Front Ambient Footlight PN: 08E10-TZA-600 - £146.20
Total £871.20
Also found a January 2021 Accessories brochure with the total pack quoted as £875, if bought individually they would total £1080!!
Looks like my dealer offer of £100 off could be regarded as generous for the total pack.
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...Mine was £390
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...Mine was £390
Was that a total pack?
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...It had better be! >:(
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...It had better be! >:(
Let us know what you get, if everything, your my negotiator!!!
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...Picking the car up on Wednesday but will have to wait for the Illumination pack as it's on back order. Should be fitted 2nd week in November.
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...Illumination pack is still on back order. Not entirely sure what components are in it but maybe the 'chip' shortage is affecting its availability.
Annoying nonetheless!
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Hello,
a curiosity, but does mounting the lighting package after the car has already left the factory create problems?
Disassembly of the dashboard any noises that may then be created etc. etc.
or is it normal that these packages are mounted by the vendor and not in the factory?
I ask this because I would like to have the lights mounted near the gear lever and pedals and I would not like to find myself with the car becoming noisy or badly assembled.
Thanks for the info
(sorry for the mistakes i used google translate)
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...Dealer or factory I believe, although I get the impression that hardly any are factory and almost all are dealer fit.
In UK/Europe maybe more than Asia.
I am slightly worried about creaks and groans that could develop from the fitting of the package as the Dashcam install has already caused one unwanted rattle.
I'll just have to wait and see!
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Where's the dashcam rattle ?
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Where's the dashcam rattle ?
...There seems to be one directly behind the infotainment (horrible word ;)) screen. This may or my not directly be attributable to the dashcam fitting but wasn't there before they fitted it. There is an occasional one down towards the panel (right knee) holding the parking sensor button et al. More obvious at low speed over not so great ground and in EV mode.
Plus that's where I think they are coming from, sat in the driver's seat :D a passenger may be looking elsewhere.
Any rattle and creak is unwanted but with the much quieter nature of the car itself they are now more apparent!
Thanks for the dashcam recommendation btw. It's spot on :)
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The wiring should go nowhere near the infotainment screen but as you say it may be somewhere else. Maybe higher up by the roof lining ?
Behind the lower right panel does indicate the wires haven't been secured sufficiently. When I self fitted mine I used quite a few cable ties to eliminate any issues.
The official instructions want the front cover, behind the rearview mirror, removing, but I found there is a small gap between its top and the roof lining to push secure and hide the cable without removing the cover.
If you have the Honda dashcam then there is wiring down both A pillars so if you have that unit the same may apply on the passengers side.
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...I'm not sure how well they fitted it. I've moved it from the driver's side, level with the top of the cowling to the passenger side just below the cowling. I assume they thought that having the left half of the image blocked out by black plastic was going to acceptable, or they just didn't check :o (they must have disturbed something else too as the nearside rear window stopped working after the dashcam install)
As you know the Viofo has a 140° viewing angle so moving to the passenger side and having the top of the unit level with the bottom of the cowling gives an uninterrupted view from the lens...
If after this work has been done, along with the illumination pack fitting, there is still an unacceptable 'rattle' then they can look at the fixings again.
I guess that's the trouble with disturbing the dash etc. and that someone else has done the work!
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I had to move mine because I also got some 'cowl' in the footage. I goofed first time :)
Mine's on the pasenger side anyway and I moved mine further left and down a bit from my original fit.
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I thinking that I only one with dashboard rattling……
Have same horrible noise on uneven asphalt road, I think that this after dealer fitted cheap rear view camera, but after fixing they’re dropped wires under infotainment screen rattles not gone, this maybe going from air conditioning tubes under dashboard (if that not something that fall into this front a/c vents when technicians do installation )
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I shun away from interior accessory dealer fit if possible for exactly these issues.
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...The rattle (behind the infotainment system) is apparently something to do with an 'access connector' and may need to be replaced (infotainment or connector it's not clear) if Honda agree to it. Seems as though it's a known issue.
Will have to wait and see on that.
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...Illumination pack now fitted! 8)
It is pretty subtle but looks good IMO.
For £390 it is OK value wise, more in probable labour costs than components. Would not be keen on the original individual prices (over £1100?) nor indeed the £890 pack price.
Pictures were a bit hard to get without getting too much or too little light ::)
Door Sill, door handle, door pocket, footwell and front centre console
Also changed the boot light to an LED one, vast improvement :)
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...Continue
Apologies if the pics haven't come out too well.
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The only thing that still seems somewhat interesting is replacing the boot light with LED. The rest is (IMHO) money wasted, even if it's "just" £390. :o
By the way... my dealer indicates that they will replace that boot light for PLN 100 (€ 22.25 or £ 19) with LED...
I still want to think about that, but that will probably happen at the first maintenance... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/ground/midi.gif)
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I've no complaint with the standard boot bulb. I can see enough :)
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...Well for £4.50 it didn't break the bank :D
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Presumably that was a bulb swap ?
So why do Honda dealers want considerably more.
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...£4.50 for a bulb swap yes, keeps original unit.
The Honda offering for the £50 is a complete unit swap, for multiple LEDs I think.
Not sure how much brighter it would be and as you can see from the photo I don't think you need any more light really.
I know it's not a necessity but it's an easy upgrade, for a pretty decent light increase, for not much dosh.
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Honda dealer supplied me with the LED boot light upgrade, which was a plug in LED lamp, which replaces the standard filament lamp within the original lamp holder fitting.
I think it contains multiple LEDs and provided a significant lighting improvement.
Part number is: 08E13-TZA-600
I believe the quoted £50 cost is fitted but, as it was a simple lamp exchange within the original fitting, I installed it myself.
Cost was £28-80 but may be available at lower cost elsewhere.
I realise it’s possible to order generic Chinese LED lamps but prefer to use genuine Honda parts, even if it is, in this case, manufactured in Vietnam!
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Yes, there are bulbs and bulbs.
I would think you could get a good quality Cree, or similar, for a lot less than £28
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Honda dealer supplied me with the LED boot light upgrade, which was a plug in LED lamp, which replaces the standard filament lamp within the original lamp holder fitting.
I think it contains multiple LEDs and provided a significant lighting improvement.
Part number is: 08E13-TZA-600
I believe the quoted £50 cost is fitted but, as it was a simple lamp exchange within the original fitting, I installed it myself.
Cost was £28-80 but may be available at lower cost elsewhere.
I realise it’s possible to order generic Chinese LED lamps but prefer to use genuine Honda parts, even if it is, in this case, manufactured in Vietnam!
Hello,
if I understood correctly between the original light in the trunk and the optional 08E13-TZA-600 the only difference is the lamp?
ie by changing the original lamp you get the code 08E13-TZA-600?
Because it is an optional that costs £ 42.80 (55 EURO in Italy)
and it seems strange to me that the difference is just that, I thought there was also some difference in the "hardware" (in the plastic lamp to understand)
(Sorry for the mistakes, I used Goole Translator)
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When I ordered the LED trunk lamp, I expected a full fitting to replace the original boot lamp but the part is an LED lamp to replace the standard filament lamp within the original fitting. I checked the Honda part number using Google and it brings up the LED trunk lamp upgrade from a number of Honda parts suppliers, so think with them also it’s just the LED lamp part that is supplied, rather than the entire trunk light assembly.
It’s a simple job to swap the LED lamp in place of the filament lamp. I wonder if the higher price listed in the Honda accessories brochure includes a charge for dealer fitting. It was still a relatively expensive part for just the LED lamp and, as others have stated, there are non Honda LED lamps available at much less cost.
It does improve the boot illumination dramatically and I notice that on the new HRV, LED boot lamps are standard, there being two, one on left and right hand side of the boot. It strikes as penny pinching not to include the LED boot lamp as standard on the Jazz, particularly as the interior roof lights are all LED.
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It’s weird that the whole car is LED apart from the boot light, reversing lights and rear indicators- I would have thought Honda would have made everything LED to avoid having to carry spare bulbs.
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Honda have some weird parts prices.
On the 8G Civic there are 4 small plastic clips, about the size of a 20p but round. They clip onto the centre console to hide the fixing bolts.
The tiny clips are £8 each !!
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Honda Jazz Boot light
https://www.aurorabulbs.com/products/honda-civic-jazz-accord-18-led-replacement-oem-boot-light
A complete light fitting which just clips in as a direct replacement.
Had one for some time, which I move from to car to car.
Much brighter than the standard candle!
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Honda Jazz Boot light
https://www.aurorabulbs.com/products/honda-civic-jazz-accord-18-led-replacement-oem-boot-light
A complete light fitting which just clips in as a direct replacement.
Had one for some time, which I move from to car to car.
Much brighter than the standard candle!
Boot light as above.
Tried this link, now not available, similar item from https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000140278040.html @ £6.44 delivered from China of course.
I did try fitting an LED bulb in place of the capless existing but found it just to hard to push home.
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It shouldn't be too difficult to fit. It will only work one way I think.
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Maybe type I got from Autobeam sold as size 501 which was fitted to Fiesta ok had a thick bayonet end but just could not physically push into place, which is tight as LED longer than capless.
It lit up OK with a little engagement but would not stay in position.
Felt possibility of breaking the cover actually!
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...I just went to my local auto spares shop with the original bulb and asked for an led equivalent.
Mine was stamped 12v/5w - KELLY. Just bought what the chap suggested (which I didn't take a piccy of at the time can do if required) for £4.50 and fitted it. World of difference :)
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Thanks for all the guidance on boot lamp. The Honda holder just has much stiffer sprung connections in the holder and different space around it from Fiesta which lamp was in previously.
I live in a rural village so online shopping a godsend - local car parts 32 miles round trip, Covid restrictions, average Crosstar petrol cost £0.130/mile (3 fills - £4.16 total) so unless going to town for other items not financially sensible.
£6.44 full assembly by post
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I think what we need is an online source that we know works in the MK4.
I'd give it a go, but not at Honda prices.
Just been out and had a look. The bulb comes out easily enough, if you use a latex glove for bulb grip. Unfortunately my existing LED's are too big.
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Boot lamp - received LED from Aliexpress at cost delivered £6.44.
Fitted with a little adjusted to align the terminals 'down' a bit to ease push fit.
Works just fine, see before and after in garage with no lights on
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I might just wait till August and get one from the dealer but fit it myself.
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Bought those led from aliexpress too several month ago, it’s fit in place and giving very bright light but it’s size different from original fixture so fixture not locks in place completely.
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Bought those led from aliexpress too several month ago, it’s fit in place and giving very bright light but it’s size different from original fixture so fixture not locks in place completely.
The one shown in my previous post fitted in place perfectly, maybe tell aliexpress about yours and have replaced?
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Bought those led from aliexpress too several month ago, it’s fit in place and giving very bright light but it’s size different from original fixture so fixture not locks in place completely.
The one shown in my previous post fitted in place perfectly, maybe tell aliexpress about yours and have replaced?
Mine from same aliexpress shop ;)
too much time from purchase money gone, they bright yes but at last wat's i get have slightly different phisical size so when i place this led from aliexpress in place of original it simple not sit in place and almost falling out.
Maybe never one that you ordered better.
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give a very poor rating then at every opportunity