Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Neil Ives on September 13, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
-
22YM EX:
I used Adaptive Cruise Control today for the first time ever. I was driving on the M40 and M25. I loved the fact that my car remained a set distance from the car in front, (up to the speed I had set). When we arrived at the M25 the traffic came to a complete standstill several times. The ACC brought the car to a smooth stop behind the vehicle in front. The car did not automatically move forward when traffic started to flow; I needed to dab the accelerator as normal, the ACC then controlled the car again. Lovely jubbly!
-
It’s a great feature, I use mine almost every time I drive.
I think the accelerator dab to start after being stopped is a Honda safety feature, I don’t remember having to do that on an old Volvo I had with ACC.
-
A so there maybe difference of MY22
When I use ACC on my MY21 it tends to break using regenerative breaking when distance to standing car is minimal. So this can lead to road accident if someone tailgating…..
Car breaking very aggressive and starting breaking from minimal distance. But the same time uses regenerative breaking much more efficiently .
If car stopped with ACC for short period of time and car in front of you start moving then you not need to dab accelerator
-
It’s a great feature, I use mine almost every time I drive.
I think the accelerator dab to start after being stopped is a Honda safety feature, I don’t remember having to do that on an old Volvo I had with ACC.
I can see why. The driver needs to know that the car is about to drive off.
-
In low speed follow, if the vehicle is stationary for more than about 10/15 seconds it will enter pause mode, there will be a row of dots instead of the set speed. Either a dab on the throttle or a press on the resume (RES/+) button will continue operation.
-
Regen braking does show the brake lights if the deceleration is above a certain value. Switch the dash to "Simple view" to see this.
-
Not this problem
But that the bracking occurs late an because of this aggressive.
-
Not this problem
But that the blacking occurs late an because of this aggressive.
Sorry, but would you explain this comment please.
-
Not this problem
But that the blacking occurs late an because of this aggressive.
Sorry, but would you explain this comment please.
Blacking should be "braking" I think.
The ACC is a bit late in braking if there is a large speed differential, eg. you're doing 70mph and the car that just comes into view is doing 45mph. The same if there is weaving traffic, eg at a motorway-motorway junction.
-
Not this problem
But that the blacking occurs late an because of this aggressive.
Sorry, but would you explain this comment please.
Blacking should be "braking" I think.
The ACC is a bit late in braking if there is a large speed differential, eg. you're doing 70mph and the car that just comes into view is doing 45mph. The same if there is weaving traffic, eg at a motorway-motorway junction.
No that aggressive braking occurs when you use AAC and when you approach cars that have already stopped at a red traffic light, AAC sees the car from afar but starts to stop at a relatively small distance from it
-
It's great in normal traffic, but not so good in traffic that is speeding up and slowing down very quickly.
Humans can see the traffic and cars in front of the one car the system is tracking and react beforehand, lifting off before the directly in front car even has started to brake.
I was testing it out in traffic today that was going from stopped to maybe 30-40mph and then back to stopped, all quite quickly.
One time the system was so slow to react it triggered it's own accident mitigation system warning! Luckily I was covering the brake and watching what it was doing so could take over before it was really needed.
-
It's great in normal traffic, but not so good in traffic that is speeding up and slowing down very quickly.
As the Honda Jazz bible tells us: ACC with Low Speed Follow may not work properly under certain circumstances.
Do not use ACC with Low Speed Follow under the following conditions:
and... point 1
• On roads with heavy traffic or while driving in a slow moving traffic jam
-
It's great in normal traffic, but not so good in traffic that is speeding up and slowing down very quickly.
As the Honda Jazz bible tells us: ACC with Low Speed Follow may not work properly under certain circumstances.
Do not use ACC with Low Speed Follow under the following conditions:
and... point 1
• On roads with heavy traffic or while driving in a slow moving traffic jam
It's a strange thing for them to say, when it's a feature that many cars are advertised as having it specifically to use exactly in those situations.
-
Maybe it has to do with "covering our @$$ in case something goes wrong"? ;D
-
I used ACC again this evening. I was on the M40. Everything was going well until I moved into the middle lane from the outside, (overtaking/fast) lane. I was traveling at 70mph. When the car swung to the left, the radar must have detected the lorry that was in the slow lane. The car slammed its brakes on. I was suddenly doing 55mph in the middle lane. A large red exclamation sign appeared in the dash display. I was crapping myself that someone might ram into the back of the car. ???
I had the detection distance set to maximum. I think a closer range may have prevented the problem.
-
I have my detection range set to minimum and it does similar unfortunately.
Driving on a slightly curved dual carriageway in lane 2 it detects cars in lane 1 even though there are lines in the road.
The speed will drop as it thinks I’m approaching them, then will speed up again when it realises I’m not.
The accident mitigation warning it set off today was caused by traffic stopping a bit quickly- good weather and clear visibility but it left braking until very late.
My main use is through average speed sections where I’m likely staying in one lane and cars are likely to be doing a very similar speed. It’s fine for that, but I won’t be using it in traffic jams again.
It’s also quite slow at speeding up after a slower car in front moves out of your lane, so I override it to avoid holding up following traffic.
-
I'm also dubious about this ACC. There should have been an option to turn off the A bit and just have plain old CC as we know it.
I had an awkward one on my first outing. Lorry in centre lane doing it's 56mph limit. I'm doing ACC 60mph in the inside lane. Pull out to lane 3 to overtake but as I cross behind the lorry the car slows to match the lorry even though I'm quite a bit behind.
Not impressed with ACC.
-
I reckon the incident I had was seriously dangerous. Is there a way of letting Honda know about it?
-
I had an awkward one on my first outing. Lorry in centre lane doing it's 56mph limit. I'm doing ACC 60mph in the inside lane. Pull out to lane 3 to overtake but as I cross behind the lorry the car slows to match the lorry even though I'm quite a bit behind.
I always take control with the throttle when doing moves like this, if you just apply enough throttle to keep your speed constant then the ACC is temporarily paused and reactivated when throttle is released.
-
Ah, does it indeed.
I assumed it was the same as the 9G where either brake or accelerator turned it off.
-
From Owners Manual:
-
Ah, does it indeed.
I assumed it was the same as the 9G where either brake or accelerator turned it off.
No, braking does turn it off, but accelerating only "pauses" the ACC.
-
I was using ACC yesterday. As the traffic in front sped up and slowed down my car was of course following suit. I'd set the distance to maximum. There was a big black BMW following me. I thought I could see the driver of that car gesticulating. I turned 'Simple' view on and of course I could see that my car's brake lights were going on and off for no apparent reason as the ACC did its thing. I shortened the stopping distance; the following driver then had the opportunity to figure out why I was braking. Being a big black BMW it wasn't long before he scooted past the traffic and disappeared into the sunset.
-
Having the brake lights coming on without you knowing sounds like a possible road rage trigger to me. If the vehicle in front isn't braking then neither should the Jazz. Throttle response should be enough.
I had similar with the old 2007 Civic iShift gearbox when you never knew when it was going to cut power to change gear.
-
Having the brake lights coming on without you knowing sounds like a possible road rage trigger to me. If the vehicle in front isn't braking then neither should the Jazz. Throttle response should be enough....
A factor in this is that you cannot set the drive to B while using ACC, so foot off deceleration is sluggish. When I'm not using cruise control I use B all the time.
-
Hi everyone.
I am a new owner of the Jazz 4 and I am globally very satisfied except with the ACC.
The ACC is not fluent at all, it decides too late if the car must speed up or brake, and is too conservative.
Instead of letting the car slow down without braking, or speed up gently when necessary, its decision is raw, without anticipation.
Though Honda claims that "the low-speed follow feature helps make it easier to drive in stop-and-go traffic" I find dangerous to use the ACC is such conditions. No one behind me can imagine that a car will suddenly hard brake though there is so much room in front of it, especially since just before the car accelerated strongly
I am afraid that the new camera only Honda sensing is not great for the ACC function, or is too new
I am concerned about the ACC as this was a major purchase criterion for me
(sorry for my English which is not my native language)
-
Hi everyone.
I am a new owner of the Jazz 4 and I am globally very satisfied except with the ACC.
The ACC is not fluent at all, it decides too late if the car must speed up or brake, and is too conservative.
Instead of letting the car slow down without braking, or speed up gently when necessary, its decision is raw, without anticipation.
Though Honda claims that "the low-speed follow feature helps make it easier to drive in stop-and-go traffic" I find dangerous to use the ACC is such conditions. No one behind me can imagine that a car will suddenly hard brake though there is so much room in front of it, especially since just before the car accelerated strongly
I am afraid that the new camera only Honda sensing is not great for the ACC function, or is too new
I am concerned about the ACC as this was a major purchase criterion for me
(sorry for my English which is not my native language)
I understand and agree with you. Additionally, I've had my car react to a slow moving lorry in another lane and a lorry parked in a lay-by. It's a shame that ordinary Cruise Control is not an option.
-
I've only had one ACC issue and that was because I crossed the path of a lorry to overtake and was annoying but understandable.
I've been in lane 2 and overtaken many vehicles in lane 1 without issue.
Your frequent issue sounds to me like it needs to go back to a dealer for a calibration check, like has to be done with a new windscreen. It does sound like yours is maybe looking too far left.
-
Hi everyone.
I am a new owner of the Jazz 4 and I am globally very satisfied except with the ACC.
The ACC is not fluent at all, it decides too late if the car must speed up or brake, and is too conservative.
Instead of letting the car slow down without braking, or speed up gently when necessary, its decision is raw, without anticipation.
Though Honda claims that "the low-speed follow feature helps make it easier to drive in stop-and-go traffic" I find dangerous to use the ACC is such conditions. No one behind me can imagine that a car will suddenly hard brake though there is so much room in front of it, especially since just before the car accelerated strongly
I am afraid that the new camera only Honda sensing is not great for the ACC function, or is too new
I am concerned about the ACC as this was a major purchase criterion for me
(sorry for my English which is not my native language)
Seems similar to my experiences - although it's advertised as to be used in heavy stop and go traffic, the owners manual says not to use it in those situations!
I don't use mine in stop and go heavy traffic, but it's fine at higher speeds with less traffic around. I like that it can hold the speed down a steep hill.
It really doesn't like traffic that quickly speeds up and slows down, but is reasonable when the traffic slowly changes speed.
-
I think we all agree. We explain things in different ways but we recognize what we observe ourselves
The best use is indeed on the highway when the traffic is fluid, when things are easy. It is better than nothing but honestly I have watched on Youtube many real tests from several recent cars (but not Honda as there are very few things with Honda) and I was waiting for a much more performant ACC
-
Prior to my Crosstar I owned a Golf for two years. It had an excellent radar (as opposed to camera) ACC and it is a better system than the Honda. None of the problems as reported in this thread. However on the relevant Golf Forums there were numerous posts about owners needing readjustment or whatever of the bonnet mounted sensor for a pricey £300 to £400. So, if one accepts the limitations of the Honda system, perhaps its long term reliability will count as a plus.
-
It's not that the ACC is ineffective it's just that many of us would like the choice of using the traditional simple cruise control over which we have complete control.
Why does everything have to be so complicated now?
-
Is that an oxymoron? ::) or two? :)
I must admit I like my (old fashioned, non automatic ) cruise control but sometimes feel that it would be improved by responding to the traffic in front.
-
Is that an oxymoron? ::) or two? :)
I must admit I like my (old fashioned, non automatic ) cruise control but sometimes feel that it would be improved by responding to the traffic in front.
It's a great idea, but not well implemented on these cars.
-
Exactly. What I want is a traditional speed regulator + something simple to automatically adjust the speed depending on the car in front of me. That's all.
I dont look for an autonomous driving, taking into account what is happening in the next lanes and many others things. I dont want that the ACC supposes that this or that could happen and makes the car brake all the time.
The ACC from Honda is only an assistant, should only be an assistant, not a bad semi autonomous system
-
You can thank NCAP for these silly aids
-
You can thank NCAP for these silly aids
It's not the idea that's wrong; it's the implentation in the Jazz that's the problem.
-
You can thank NCAP for these silly aids
It's not the idea that's wrong; it's the implentation in the Jazz that's the problem.
Yes, I can see on Youtube that Renault, Peugeot, VW etc. seem to have a much more better implemented ACC.
May be the older Jazz with the "old" combo radar+camera too?
-
My right foot is my cruise control :)
-
I only use cruise in average speed zones to stop me inadvertently drifting over the limit.
These days, with quiet comfy cars that's so easy to do.
-
I used ACC again this evening. I was on the M40. Everything was going well until I moved into the middle lane from the outside, (overtaking/fast) lane. I was traveling at 70mph. When the car swung to the left, the radar must have detected the lorry that was in the slow lane. The car slammed its brakes on. I was suddenly doing 55mph in the middle lane. A large red exclamation sign appeared in the dash display. I was crapping myself that someone might ram into the back of the car. ???
I had the detection distance set to maximum. I think a closer range may have prevented the problem.
I've just had the same on the M4.
Overtook a car in lane 2 then slowly drifted from lane 3 to lane 2, no vehicles in lane 2 in front, and it put the brakes on !!!
Good job I was on the ball. It wasn't as if I turned sharply but a slow drift from 3 to 2.
I can only guess that the horizontal sensor is too wide or angled too far left as there was traffic in lane 1 travelling slower.
I have my ACC set to minimum distance. Maximum isn't pratical as you could get 4 or 5 cars in the gap it leaves.
-
Sounds like a need for a safety recall?
-
Does anyone know if the settings for ACC can be adjusted? I think a narrower field of detection is needed, or even a slight focus toward the right, (on UK roads).
-
This is embarrassing .......
I've played my footage back from M4 J3 to J10 to trap the exact circumstances that the quick slowdown occurred and can I find it ....... no :-[
I've played it 3 times and ..... nothing of note, although I did counter it very quickly with the accelerator, but, I remember at the time saying to myself, 'this is exactly what Neil had' and I'll post it up.
Next time I'll speak into the dashcam
-
I've found that I'm disconnecting mine now when approaching traffic in multiple lanes and switching it back on afterwards.
Otherwise it will brake unpredictably with cars all around you that's not what you want to be happening.
I did try the option of pressing the accelerator to soft override it, but it's not as good as just switching it off for a while.
-
I feel this is a serious problem. Has anyone brought it up with Honda?
-
Without proof or recorded scenario they have nothing to go on.
I really thought I had it recorded and pinned but I just can't find it. I reckon because I almost instantly counteracted with the accelerator there was no dip on the dashcam speed even though I felt the deceleration like being in B mode and taking your foot off.
I'll get it, bound to happen again and I know just what to do ;D
I was on the M4 for about 20 miles and I just can't remember where it was.
-
I really thought I had it recorded and pinned but I just can't find it.
---/---
I was on the M4 for about 20 miles and I just can't remember where it was.
It sounds a bit like a ghost braking... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/engel/a030.gif)
It happened... it was recorded... it is invisible in the recording... I just can't remember where it was... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c066.gif)
-
You have only to read pages 248-249 to think that the whole system is precarious, to say the least. I have yet to use it and don't particularly want to. The Jazz with ACC is the first car I've had that will automatically slow down, but now I'll be very careful how I use it. That's a pity because standard cruise control has been with us for many years and I am at a loss to understand why Honda lump both together and call it 'ACC with low speed follow' when the 'low speed follow' should have been available independently of CC. I think this needs to be fixed urgently as not all drivers are as alert as the contributors to this forum.
-
You have only to read pages 248-249 to think that the whole system is precarious, to say the least. I have yet to use it and don't particularly want to. The Jazz with ACC is the first car I've had that will automatically slow down, but now I'll be very careful how I use it. That's a pity because standard cruise control has been with us for many years and I am at a loss to understand why Honda lump both together and call it 'ACC with low speed follow' when the 'low speed follow' should have been available independently of CC. I think this needs to be fixed urgently as not all drivers are as alert as the contributors to this forum.
+1
-
After many hundreds of kilometres/miles of highway I think I have quite mastered driving the car on ACC.
To start with, I almost always set the distance detection to minimum, at high speeds (around 80 mph) sometimes at 2 bars. When overtaking (after indicating of course ;)): change lanes at a sufficient distance (you learn quickly ...) from the car in front of you.
When you are overtaken and that car moves a short distance in front of you into your lane, nothing happens if its speed is higher than yours.
I haven't experienced any unexpected brake intervention yet, but who knows! I wait patiently.
And indeed, Hugh mentions it: read the manual! Where to use and where better not to use ACC...
-
I've had a few instances, one which I do have on my latest dashcam footage, where I've had to move from lane 1 to 3 to overtake a vehicle in lane 2.
I have my ACC set to 1 bar but even when I think I'm well behind the vehicle in lane 2, when I get into lane 2 the car slows, presumably brakes, and doesn't speed up again until I get into lane 3.
I understand the theory but the range is too big. Also, in my case, on the M4, the speed difference is only 1 or 2mph so it's not as if I'm racing up behind the vehicle ahead.
My ideal would be ACC with an option to set zero bars and that would be the old tried, trusted and tested CC that I've been using for over a decade without issue.
-
Yes, I've been trying ACC with minimum distance set; It still slowed me down when I was probably 50m behind the car in front at a distance that urgent speed reduction just was just not required. This was on a country road, not a motorway. I had been travelling at 50mph. Without ACC I would have been happy to take my foot off the gas to allow my car to slow down and match my speed to theirs.
-
This is all worrying me! On my present car I use CC a lot, particularly on urban roads to keep to 30 & 40 speed limits. Always plenty of traffic and parked cars by side of road. From what I read here the ACC is unsuitable for use in this environment. Am I right?
-
This is all worrying me! On my present car I use CC a lot, particularly on urban roads to keep to 30 & 40 speed limits. Always plenty of traffic and parked cars by side of road. From what I read here the ACC is unsuitable for use in this environment. Am I right?
Well, if my poll shows that most people who use ACC are happy with it then the problem may be me but I see that Kremmen also experienced false braking.
I suspect that actually, lots of drivers would not use a simple Cruise Control so ACC may never be an issue for them.
It is a shame that we don't have the option of simple CC on the jazz
-
Here are a few screengrabs from Friday.
In all cases where I mention brakes, I'm not talking severe braking but more deceleration than just easing off in 'D'.
The first 2 are where I break off the M4 at J10 and are in the 60mph average speed zone. My ACC speed is a constant 59mph prior to being auto slowed. The first screenshot is where the ACC has started to slow me down due to the vehicle in front and the second is the distance 'ACC 1 bar' is holding me behind.
IMO far too far away for 1 bar. I dread to think how far back max bars would hold me back :
1) Speed dropped from 59 to 58 = starting to slow down :
(https://i.imgur.com/mdRVGz4.jpg)
2) Speed 51, matching the vehicle in front :
(https://i.imgur.com/ESWTMzf.jpg)
3) As an aside, remember this :
(https://i.imgur.com/KRmPWZo.jpg)
The dash display correctly picks up 50 :)
4) On a positive note, The ACC doesn't always slow you down due to proximity. This Saab muppet was only doing about 1 or 2mph more but his cut in, without indicating, didn't slow me :
(https://i.imgur.com/CxbJOwg.jpg)
5) This one is where I'm overtaking the coach. I'm well behind to safely complete the manoeuvre but the ACC, as seen, has decided to put the brakes on and I've dropped from 49 to 47 before I took over with the accelerator :
(https://i.imgur.com/WBiBUXa.jpg)
6) And finally, I've found the place where I had hardly moved out of lane 3.
Looking at the footage I'd maybe just hit or got close to the white line but I actually changed my mind and stayed in lane 3 to overtake the van, but at this screenshot position the brakes had been applied and I'd only slowed from 49 to 48 before I rapidly took over :
(https://i.imgur.com/VKsyY2i.jpg)
-
Interesting pictures! One thing that strikes me is that it’s not clear which of the vehicles the car is responding to, it may not be the one the driver’s attention is on. For example, in (6), there’s a car in lane 3 ahead of you that looks to be about the same distance ahead as the one in pic (1) ... maybe that’s the one causing the braking?
As a side comment, it’s not unusual to see a car ahead on a fast road or motorway that will suddenly flick its brakes on for a few seconds for no apparent reason before continuing normally. I’ve never understood why a driver would do this when simply lifting off the throttle would slow them down if that’s what they want. But maybe they are using ACC (or some marques might use a form of CC that actually brakes the car, unlike the Mk3 Jazz CC which just cuts the gas) and it’s the car that’s done it rather than the driver.
-
Interesting pictures! One thing that strikes me is that it’s not clear which of the vehicles the car is responding to, it may not be the one the driver’s attention is on. For example, in (6), there’s a car in lane 3 ahead of you that looks to be about the same distance ahead as the one in pic (1) ... maybe that’s the one causing the braking?
As a side comment, it’s not unusual to see a car ahead on a fast road or motorway that will suddenly flick its brakes on for a few seconds for no apparent reason before continuing normally. I’ve never understood why a driver would do this when simply lifting off the throttle would slow them down if that’s what they want. But maybe they are using ACC (or some marques might use a form of CC that actually brakes the car, unlike the Mk3 Jazz CC which just cuts the gas) and it’s the car that’s done it rather than the driver.
In most of my previous cars it was easier/faster to just tap the brakes to disengage the cruise control.
Many cars have it added as an afterthought- on Toyota’s it was a little stalk behind the wheel at the bottom.
-
Here are a few screengrabs from Friday.
---/---
The first 2 are where I break off the M4 at J10 and are in the 60mph average speed zone. My ACC speed is a constant 59mph prior to being auto slowed. The first screenshot is where the ACC has started to slow me down due to the vehicle in front and the second is the distance 'ACC 1 bar' is holding me behind.
IMO far too far away for 1 bar. I dread to think how far back max bars would hold me back :
1) Speed dropped from 59 to 58 = starting to slow down :
(https://i.imgur.com/mdRVGz4.jpg)
2) Speed 51, matching the vehicle in front :
(https://i.imgur.com/ESWTMzf.jpg)
Looking at these 2 pictures I think we have a totally different ACC. Such a distance keeps our Jazz more or less at maximum distance detection!
-
... In most of my previous cars it was easier/faster to just tap the brakes to disengage the cruise control.
It does the same in the Jazz but the car slammed the brakes on before I could do anything.
-
... In most of my previous cars it was easier/faster to just tap the brakes to disengage the cruise control.
It does the same in the Jazz but the car slammed the brakes on before I could do anything.
The MK3 has two buttons positioned very close to your right thumb, each of which will disengage the CC without undue drama. Much easier than flashing the brake lights and causing concern behind you. Does the MK4 not have similar?
-
... In most of my previous cars it was easier/faster to just tap the brakes to disengage the cruise control.
It does the same in the Jazz but the car slammed the brakes on before I could do anything.
The MK3 has two buttons positioned very close to your right thumb, each of which will disengage the CC without undue drama. Much easier than flashing the brake lights and causing concern behind you. Does the MK4 not have similar?
Yes it does. My problem was that the Adaptive Cruise Control decided to apply hard braking when it thought the vehicle in the lane to my left presented a risk. There was no time to cancel CC.
-
In my case it wasn't 'hard' braking but it felt like it was slowing more so than just lifting off the throttle in D mode.
Very disconcerting when it happens. As posted, drivers behind must wonder what you're up to.
-
Page 407 of the online manual.
Get to roughly the speed you want and press the LIM button. Then use the Res + / - to fine tune.
Then when the speed limit changes just use the Res + & - again to increase/decrease
If it's as I understand then it's like the old plain CC but you need to keep your foot on the loud pedal.
-
... In most of my previous cars it was easier/faster to just tap the brakes to disengage the cruise control.
It does the same in the Jazz but the car slammed the brakes on before I could do anything.
The MK3 has two buttons positioned very close to your right thumb, each of which will disengage the CC without undue drama. Much easier than flashing the brake lights and causing concern behind you. Does the MK4 not have similar?
Yes, in the Mk4 Jazz I don't have to use the brake to disengage ACC as the button is right there on the steering wheel in easy reach.
I use it all the time when approaching traffic as I know the system is about to get into a situation it can't cope with.
-
... Yes, in the Mk4 Jazz I don't have to use the brake to disengage ACC as the button is right there on the steering wheel in easy reach.
I use it all the time when approaching traffic as I know the system is about to get into a situation it can't cope with.
You disable it when approaching traffic? This is a bit crazy, and a condemnation of the system, isn't it? Adaptive Cruise Control is all about keeping your vehicle a safe distance from those ahead of you.
-
Just chucking this into the mix. I have to say I've always thought that CC or, indeed, ACC were unsuitable to use in heavy traffic - indeed the owners manual says as much. I have never used CC when the motorway is busy.
For me the great advantage of CC is to give your right leg a rest. In the MK4 I will use it quite rarely as I did with my Mk3 and any other car I've had. Light traffic on the motorway or an A road.
-
... Yes, in the Mk4 Jazz I don't have to use the brake to disengage ACC as the button is right there on the steering wheel in easy reach.
I use it all the time when approaching traffic as I know the system is about to get into a situation it can't cope with.
You disable it when approaching traffic? This is a bit crazy, and a condemnation of the system, isn't it? Adaptive Cruise Control is all about keeping your vehicle a safe distance from those ahead of you.
Yes - the system just doesn't work for me. Just like they say in the specs it has 'low speed follow' and then tell you in the owners manual NOT to use it in heavy traffic at low speeds!
For me, lane keep assist is completely useless too and I never use that either. It has wobbled the car badly before at high speed, upsetting the balance like a learner driver on the motorway for the first time.
Yet, some people get on ok with both of these systems.
I love the car, I just avoid using some of the features as they don't work for me.
When the lane departure system turned itself off recently due to condensation from being parked outside overnight, the car was much more relaxing to drive as I am in the country with winding narrow roads.
-
I've done my regular Heathrow(ish) to Reading journey.
What I can now say is LIM is the boy for the job and I can't see me using ACC again.
LIM does what it says and you can switch lanes on the motorway with no deceleration interference. I can now go back to waiting for a passing car for example before pulling out behind it to overtake at what I consider to be a safe distance and not have ACC try and keep me in the previous county.
From my garage I turned on LIM which displayed the min 18mph. I then pressed and held RES+ that made LIM go 20 -30 - 40 - 50 then a quick press took it to 51, which is 49/50 on my Garmin DS61.
Once on the motorway just accelerated normally and at 51, no more acceleration, perfect.
Then when I got to M4 J8/9 where the limit rises to 60, a series of quick presses whilst accelerating got LIM to 61, which is 59/60 on the Garmin.
Proper Job :)
-
I use speed limiter a lot.
In my area, (rural Warwickshire) typical 'A' roads are limited to 50mph with frequent villages restricted to 30. I adjust the speed limits as I go. I begin to slow down, (using 'B') before the limit so that without braking I can match it as I pass the sign. I'm happy to report that this causes annoyance to following traffic who tend to drive the same speed regardless of the signage!
-
I would like to use Adaptive Cruise Control in motorway situations.
-
So would I but the auto braking that ACC performs, well before I would consider slowing down, was irritating.
We all have our preferences and LIM will do me just fine. It's performing just like plain old CC but you need your foot on the accelerator.
That in itself can be an advantage because CC had to be temporarily turned off if you couldn't overtake but with LIM you can just ease off till the coast is clear.
-
LIM will do me just fine. It's performing just like plain old CC but you need your foot on the accelerator.
While the idea of plain old CC was NO need for your foot on the accelerator...
-
Which I said in the final paragraph
-
there's not much more I can add. :o
however - if anyone's interested,
I have performed several 500 mile round trips now to Yorkshire from East Sussex. ive made extensive use of ACC and LKAS. Have not a bad thing to say about LKAS - delighted with it.
With ACC - I guess I think its a little crude compared to the similar system in our Golf. But tbh I've found myself making good use of it. I was in a queue on the M25 for 30 mins recently, when people were glued to the road, and it was great or the LSF was - if a tad jerky, but still more restful than driving stop / start normally.
im aware its not perfect system yet - but im still a fan overall. ;D
-
It's very strange - some people get on great with the systems, but others have real problems.
Perhaps there are different software/sensor versions that have different performance?
I took my car back to the garage shortly after purchasing to have them check the systems and they said they were running fine with no errors. Perhaps the differences don't show up on a normal test when plugged in.
-
I'm very suspicious that mine is nowhere near the quoted 1.2 secs distance on 1 bar @ 65mph.
I was going to time it this weekend but having used the LIM facility with good results I'm just going to ditch ACC.
ACC is probably perfectly OK on quiet roads to maintain a speed or on a road where you just want to auto follow, but on a carriageway with frequent lane changes to overtake it's hopeless IMO.
-
I'm very suspicious that mine is nowhere near the quoted 1.2 secs distance on 1 bar @ 65mph.
I was going to time it this weekend but having used the LIM facility with good results I'm just going to ditch ACC.
ACC is probably perfectly OK on quiet roads to maintain a speed or on a road where you just want to auto follow, but on a carriageway with frequent lane changes to overtake it's hopeless IMO.
I'm afraid that you might have trouble even on a quiet road. I've had my ACC react to a vehicle parked in a layby. I was half expecting the reaction so was ready to put my foot on the gas pedal.
-
I've not had any issues if I'm square in lane. It's when changing lanes I've had some unexpected results. The last thing I want on a motorway is giving other drivers unexpected brake lights. Makes me look like I need P plates.
-
I tried timing one bar ACC last week by counting - it did seem to be about 1.2 seconds on a clear road with just one car in front.
The problem is, when there is traffic about it increases the gap randomly and doesn't keep to the 1.2 seconds. If I'm using it, I have to soft override it with accelerator to keep the gap.
-
I'm very suspicious that mine is nowhere near the quoted 1.2 secs distance on 1 bar @ 65mph.
I have it set to 4 bars. "Only a fool breaks the two second rule."
-
I fully agree but go back to my post #55 in this thread.
Just look at that gap 1 bar was holding me back at 51mph, it's massive.
-
Newbie question. Can you set cruise control to just be a normal cruise control rather than ACC?
-
I fully agree but go back to my post #55 in this thread.
Just look at that gap 1 bar was holding me back at 51mph, it's massive.
Firstly, dashcams have very wide angle lenses and hence exaggerate distances.
Secondly, have you timed it using a landmark or a shadow? (eg. One elephant, two elephant.)
-
Newbie question. Can you set cruise control to just be a normal cruise control rather than ACC?
Unfortunately not.
In many cars you can (my last one did it, but the radar based ACC was so good I never needed to) - press cruise control button once for ACC & if you held it down for a couple of seconds it switched to normal CC operation instead.
-
I fully agree but go back to my post #55 in this thread.
Just look at that gap 1 bar was holding me back at 51mph, it's massive.
Firstly, dashcams have very wide angle lenses and hence exaggerate distances.
Secondly, have you timed it using a landmark or a shadow? (eg. One elephant, two elephant.)
I was going to do that but I've found that LIM does exactly what I want so I've taken ACC off the agenda.
What I've subsequently found is that when I'm on the M4 motorway, which changes from 50 to 60 westbound and 60 to 50 eastbound at J 8/9. By pressing the LIM button again from LIM it switches to Intelligent LIM and when it spots the 50 or 60 signs it automatically switches the limit up or down, perfect.
-
By pressing the LIM button again from LIM it switches to Intelligent LIM and when it spots the 50 or 60 signs it automatically switches the limit up or down, perfect.
Be careful about that. On the MK3 (and I've not seen anything suggesting it's better on the MK4) the sign recognition just isn't good enough, it's liable to see the wrong sign. Also the system doesn't anticipate the changed limit sign as you would manually when you see it ahead, so you actually pass the sign at the wrong speed which could land you with a ticket.
-
By pressing the LIM button again from LIM it switches to Intelligent LIM and when it spots the 50 or 60 signs it automatically switches the limit up or down, perfect.
Be careful about that. On the MK3 (and I've not seen anything suggesting it's better on the MK4) the sign recognition just isn't good enough, it's liable to see the wrong sign. Also the system doesn't anticipate the changed limit sign as you would manually when you see it ahead, so you actually pass the sign at the wrong speed which could land you with a ticket.
So true! If you're going through roadworks it may pick up a 15 mph sign for the works traffic and apply the brakes unexpectedly. Beware!
-
I have found the sign recognition system rather poor, at least, on the roads around here that have greenery growing over the signs. Motorway signage may well be OK.
-
I've been down the M4, which is the only place I'm intending using the I-LIM and before using LIM I've been keeping my eye on the dash display.
So far it's been spot on.
I did post an image further up (post #55 again) showing that 40 50, the dash showed it had correctly picked up the 50.
There are also a few places where there are 10mph signs for the vehicles in the coned off single lane roadworks sections and its ignored those as well.
However, I hear what you're saying and I think I'll just use it to auto change at J 8/9 then switch back to LIM and keep an eye on the dash for any blips.
-
So far [I-LIM's] been spot on.
I've previously posted pictures of situations where the sign recognition in my Mk3 ALWAYS gets it wrong, every time I pass them. Here they are again. I appreciate none of these are the motorway situation you describe where signage tends to be clearer, but personally I wouldn't trust it for safety-critical (or speed camera critical) situations.
-
Based on the advice like yours I didn't venture into I-LIM, just got back from Reading.
I took note at the 60 to 50 boards and they were picked up correctly, however, it was easy enough to press RES - x 10 times and Bob's your uncle.
-
It was easy enough to press RES - x 10 times and Bob's your uncle.
If you hold the button down it changes in increments of 10.
-
Yes, I did that to get from the start 18mph to 50mph but pressing the button one increment at a time makes the deceleration nice and smooth, got to watch those eggs in the boot. :)
-
I had ACC on a BMW X5 and its the only feature I didn't switch off, it was excellent going along German autobahns on long journeys (Lived in Frankfurt and drove all over Europe).
I did switch off lane departure as it just vibrated the steering wheel but I may give it another try on the Jazz on long journeys but I dont like the idea of auto steering input !
-
There is an old fashioned saying that states if you can’t say”only a fool breaks the 2 second rule” for you to reach a point ahead that the car in front has already passed then you are too close to that car in front. I believe that the max separation distance on ACC is equivalent to a 2.3 second following time irrespective of and it takes 1 second thinking reflex time before you actually hit the brakes in an emergency without that on.
A car will cover a phenomenal distance in that time even under maximum retardation! The best thing of ACC is that the car reacts in a fraction of a second so there is a better safety margin……better safe than sorry!
-
After many hundreds of kilometres/miles of highway I think I have quite mastered driving the car on ACC.
To start with, I almost always set the distance detection to minimum, at high speeds (around 80 mph) sometimes at 2 bars. When overtaking (after indicating of course ;)): change lanes at a sufficient distance (you learn quickly ...) from the car in front of you.
When you are overtaken and that car moves a short distance in front of you into your lane, nothing happens if its speed is higher than yours.
I haven't experienced any unexpected brake intervention yet, but who knows! I wait patiently.
And indeed, Hugh mentions it: read the manual! Where to use and where better not to use ACC...
My experience exactly. The only thing I'd change so far (with my experiences being 100% positive) is that, when a car moves into my lane - and ACC reduces speed from the set speed - when the road clears and it resumes, it does so under full throttle.
As it's pretty noisy in this scenario, Honda should recalibrate the "resuming to set speed" throttle ratio to 75% of what it is now. Then I'd say it would be perfect for my needs :-)
-
My experience exactly. The only thing I'd change so far (with my experiences being 100% positive) is that, when a car moves into my lane - and ACC reduces speed from the set speed - when the road clears and it resumes, it does so under full throttle.
As it's pretty noisy in this scenario, Honda should recalibrate the "resuming to set speed" throttle ratio to 75% of what it is now. Then I'd say it would be perfect for my needs :-)
It also does it if you change lane to overtake a slower vehicle. I try to anticipate when its likely to go off at full throttle and use the throttle manually ,on my terms, reverting back to ACC once its up to speed.
No great effort, and I find it helps keep me more alert to how the ACC is likely to interact with other traffic.
-
That was my issue, it interacted far too often with other traffic and at times it hindered progress when trying to overtake. You can't overtake if it's auto decelerating !
I knew by the feeling that it had put the brakes on, unnecessarily in my opinion, so I stopped using it.
-
I haven't used ACC yet - not really had occasion to. I like cruise control as an option and the main reason I use it is to give my right leg a rest on longer trips and when traffic is light. Kremmen's experience with ACC would deter me from using it I think in any situation where the motorway was busy.
-
It's like a lot of things, horses for courses. For some it sounds to be ideal for what they want.
I've tried it and for me it ruins my smooth predictable driving style.
-
It's like a lot of things, horses for courses. For some it sounds to be ideal for what they want.
I've tried it and for me it ruins my smooth predictable driving style.
I agree, you should not have to second guess the way the vehicle is going to behave in certain situations, it is distracting, and sometimes dangerous. My brother was very disconcerted by the way his car behaves, so he switches everything off before every drive. What is lacking in all these auto systems is human judgement.
-
It's like a lot of things, horses for courses. For some it sounds to be ideal for what they want.
I've tried it and for me it ruins my smooth predictable driving style.
I agree, you should not have to second guess the way the vehicle is going to behave in certain situations, it is distracting, and sometimes dangerous. My brother was very disconcerted by the way his car behaves, so he switches everything off before every drive. What is lacking in all these auto systems is human judgement.
I might have mentioned this before but I have a pal who changes his car every 3 years on PCP deals. He steadfastly ignores all the extra gizmos. His Lexus Hybrid is loaded with them. He doesn't use CC, ACC, Speed Limiters, Android Auto or Apple Car Play. He says his Lexus makes annoying noises every now and then which he ignores!
On the Jazz it's the wretched RDMS which I hate. After putting up with it for a while I now turn it off on every trip. I could put up with a beep but not the twitch of the steering wheel - hate that.
-
It's like a lot of things, horses for courses. For some it sounds to be ideal for what they want.
I've tried it and for me it ruins my smooth predictable driving style.
I agree, you should not have to second guess the way the vehicle is going to behave in certain situations, it is distracting, and sometimes dangerous. My brother was very disconcerted by the way his car behaves, so he switches everything off before every drive. What is lacking in all these auto systems is human judgement.
I might have mentioned this before but I have a pal who changes his car every 3 years on PCP deals. He steadfastly ignores all the extra gizmos. His Lexus Hybrid is loaded with them. He doesn't use CC, ACC, Speed Limiters, Android Auto or Apple Car Play. He says his Lexus makes annoying noises every now and then which he ignores!
On the Jazz it's the wretched RDMS which I hate. After putting up with it for a while I now turn it off on every trip. I could put up with a beep but not the twitch of the steering wheel - hate that.
Turn them all off. They are only there for people that can’t drive. :D :D :D :P
-
Turn them all off. They are only there for people that can’t drive. :D :D :D :P
Yup, and the problem is that the more automation that gets fitted the more peoples driving skills get eroded. The law of unintended consequences is that the less people have to do, the less they want to do.
-
I imagine we are being gradually lead towards autonomous or guided vehicles where the unpredictable nature of humans is removed from the equation. In the future maybe, we'll be able to control our car on low speed roads, possibly with speed limiting, but when we need to use faster roads the vehicle will be controlled externally. The driver will have no control over speed and spacing; even exiting the road will be programmed. The vehicle will be made to come to a standstill before the driver is allowed to take control again. This all seems pretty possible to me, especially with electric powered vehicles because they lend themselves to being controlled externally.
I'm not expecting to be around when all this happens :-X
-
I imagine we are being gradually lead towards autonomous or guided vehicles where the unpredictable nature of humans is removed from the equation. In the future maybe, we'll be able to control our car on low speed roads, possibly with speed limiting, but when we need to use faster roads the vehicle will be controlled externally. The driver will have no control over speed and spacing; even exiting the road will be programmed. The vehicle will be made to come to a standstill before the driver is allowed to take control again. This all seems pretty possible to me, especially with electric powered vehicles because they lend themselves to being controlled externally.
I'm not expecting to be around when all this happens :-X
Have you noticed how quiet it has gone on autonomous vehicles for last few years, and how many have dropped out, no 'big breakthroughs' announced. Getting autonomous vehicles is a mountain to climb, and it makes Everest look like a molehill... but just like Everest the higher you go the harder it becomes.
-
Yes, even the new spotless test vehicles have had shunts. Put one on a dirty country road where the sensors will get covered.
They're fine as airport shuttles at 15mph max though :)
-
Remember the old science fiction films and TV? . People in advanced silent vehicles, with robots doing the housework and,instant communication and such stuff. .
We're getting there. But they never imagined the angst, range anxiety , subscriptions to providers, rival sytems, etc that is the reality.
-
I almost left out the term autonomous, (too many variables). In my nightmare the vehicles will be guided along routes like so many railway trucks.
-
I often think "user friendliness" is now a forgotten concept, not just in motoring but in society generally. I read somewhere that most motorists "ignore" a significant amount of the tech on a modern car. Is the success of Dacia down to a desire for simpler products?
-
I often think "user friendliness" is now a forgotten concept, not just in motoring but in society generally. I read somewhere that most motorists "ignore" a significant amount of the tech on a modern car. Is the success of Dacia down to a desire for simpler products?
I use cruise control and reversing camera and that's about it.
-
I use cruise control and reversing camera and that's about it.
Cruise Control on the MK4 Jazz is the most controversial feature, I reckon.
-
Is the success of Dacia down to a desire for simpler products?
I don't think so. Their succes is in my view down to less €,$ or £ for the same (or more) space.
Cruise Control on the MK4 Jazz is the most controversial feature, I reckon.
ACC most controversial? I thought that was RDMS... or was it LKAS? Or maybe still CMBS? ;)
-
I use cruise control and reversing camera and that's about it.
Cruise Control on the MK4 Jazz is the most controversial feature, I reckon.
I think the controversy is with the automatic sign recognition with cruise control, probably not a feature I would use !
-
I think the controversy is with the automatic sign recognition with cruise control, probably not a feature I would use !
In fact, I think you couldn't possibly use such a function...
I suppose you're confusing ACC with the "intelligent" (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/a015.gif) speed limiter, which is supposed to recognize road signs... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c086.gif)
-
Is the success of Dacia down to a desire for simpler products?
I don't think so. Their succes is in my view down to less €,$ or £ for the same (or more) space.
Cruise Control on the MK4 Jazz is the most controversial feature, I reckon.
ACC most controversial? I thought that was RDMS... or was it LKAS? Or maybe still CMBS? ;)
I’ve actually found CMBS on the Jazz to be one of the better systems - no issues at all.
CMBS on Volvos doesn’t really like roundabouts or pedestrians/cyclists/cars on the pavement and coming towards you.
I’ve also had false alerts on a newer Auris hybrid with the CMBS not liking winding urban roads with cars parked on the side.
-
This sounds familiar
-
This sounds familiar
I've also heard reports of Tesla systems being totally confused by the flashing lights of emergency vehicles and ploughing into crash scenes. I'm all for them trying for perfection with these systems ,but not with us as the test dummies. Even if many drivers are dummies.
-
The ACC is the very bad thing of my Jazz. I was hoping for an update from Honda but I guess there is nothing to expect
The matter is that my Jazz can even be dangerous for the driver following me
-
I found the same so I don't use it. I find the LIM function suits my journey better when I'm in an average speed zone. I used to use CC to keep me at 50mph on my Civic so I tried the same trick with ACC but it kept unexpectedly braking, unacceptably sharply at times.
There are plenty of owners who like ACC because their journeys and requirements are different.
-
I used to use CC to keep me at 50mph on my Civic so I tried the same trick with ACC but it kept unexpectedly braking, unacceptably sharply at times.
There are plenty of owners who like ACC because their journeys and requirements are different.
Yes the AAC is OK when the traffic is very fluent otherwise it is as you say. It sharply brakes too far from the vehicule in front, which is dangerous because it cannot be predicted by the driver behind us
-
I used to use CC to keep me at 50mph on my Civic so I tried the same trick with ACC but it kept unexpectedly braking, unacceptably sharply at times.
There are plenty of owners who like ACC because their journeys and requirements are different.
Yes the AAC is OK when the traffic is very fluent otherwise it is as you say. It sharply brakes too far from the vehicule in front, which is dangerous because it cannot be predicted by the driver behind us
You are able to change the detection distance.
-
Yep, I had mine on the minimum one bar but just as frenchguy is finding it's still looking too far ahead.
After many decades of driving and a IAM I know just when to pull out from a leading vehicle to overtake. Not too soon and certainly not too late. A gentle drift out before the 2 second rule. However, the ACC knew better and unless I pulled out 'too soon' then it auto braked.
Then because the ACC had the overtaking speed in memory, as soon as I was fully in the overtaking lane it 'gave it some' to get me back to the set speed.
Just my experience though and as posted ACC is perfect for others.
What I wonder is whether different vehicles have been calibrated differently ? I know if you need a new windscreen, the systems controlled by the gubbins behind the rearview mirror need re-calibrating.
-
I was also wondering about a possible difference in calibration
The problem is that I don't see any Youtube videos of AAC testing (with our Jazz) to see if I find the same abrupt behavior of mine
(Yes my safety distance is set at the minimum)