Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: BestwoodRoadie on July 26, 2021, 06:41:45 AM
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Had my new Jazz Hybrid (EX trim) for 6 days (yesterday) & had to call Honda recovery.
Car on driveway so I went out to it with intention to get familiar with the dashboard/comms, I was attempting to pair my iPhone (not the apple car play) which was already done, messing with various settings & all of a sudden all electrics went off, with window half way open.
Called assistance they came & the guy diagnosed the battery had gone flat, it was jus started then all was ok.
Bottom line is that before messing with settings etc, have the engine running, I didn't, just had the ignition switched on.
The AA guy said that this was probably the cause of the flat battery, but surely after 6 days it should not flatten????, Any thoughts????
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Dealers only usually charge the battery to a low state of charge.
My 2 8G Civics had a battery with a window that showed the charge and they took about 3 weeks doing 40 miles a weekday before the battery was showing full charge in the window.
When I get mine it's going straight on a CTEK
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Had my new Jazz Hybrid (EX trim) for 6 days (yesterday) & had to call Honda recovery.
Car on driveway so I went out to it with intention to get familiar with the dashboard/comms, I was attempting to pair my iPhone (not the apple car play) which was already done, messing with various settings & all of a sudden all electrics went off, with window half way open.
Called assistance they came & the guy diagnosed the battery had gone flat, it was jus started then all was ok.
Bottom line is that before messing with settings etc, have the engine running, I didn't, just had the ignition switched on.
The AA guy said that this was probably the cause of the flat battery, but surely after 6 days it should not flatten????, Any thoughts????
Curious. Presumably you’re talking about the 12V battery? Others have commented firstly that the 12V battery is charged from the HV system, not directly from the engine, and secondly that the 12V battery doesn’t start the engine, that’s done by the HV system. So the 12V battery ought to be charging when the car is turned on (equivalent to ignition on in a pure ICE) even if the engine isn’t actually running. If the 12V wasn't charging, that implies the HV battery was dead as well ... in which case how was the car started?
Re. your final question, as Kremmen says it depends on the charge state of the battery. A brand new, fully charged, 12V battery ought to last several weeks before it starts to under-perform. Are you absolutely sure nothing was left switched on ... in the Mk3 the map reading lights are the usual suspects.
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With the ignition just on, e.g. 2 presses of the power button without putting foot on the brake, then the 12v battery wont be being charged by the DC/DC converter, same as if it was a ICE with engine OFF but the ignition on.
For the 12v battery to be charged the drive ready symbol (Green car with double headed arrow underneath) needs to be showing on the dash, this will only be shown if the power button pressed with foot on the brake, depending on the situation the engine may run/not run.
The system needs the 12v battery to have power to then use the HV battery to start the engine.
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The 12V battery provides the power for the wipers, lights, radio, fan etc. But more importantly it powers the ECU, so if the battery is flat; no ECU no start.
I have a Toyota Corolla hybrid that has a 45A/hr 12V battery. Toyota issued advice during the lockdown that if your car is used infrequently it should be put in ready mode for one hour every week so the hybrid battery can charge the 12V battery.
Wherever I was the car I leave it in ready mode just so the 12V battery can charge. If the Hybrid battery starts to get a bit low in that time the ICE kicks in to charge it. It generally starts up three times and runs for about three minutes each time so is unlikely to be consuming much fuel. I have always been in the habit of using a CTEK in the darker months and will continue to do so, this is probably more important on a hybrid than on a conventional car.
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Curious. Presumably you’re talking about the 12V battery? Others have commented firstly that the 12V battery is charged from the HV system, not directly from the engine, and secondly that the 12V battery doesn’t start the engine, that’s done by the HV system.
If the 12V battery doesn't start the car, then is it tiny in the hybrids?
It's pretty small even in conventional Jazz's, but it's worth noting that, at least in conventional cars, the 12V battery is designed to provide a high starting current for the starter and isn't good at providing long steady discharge - like, say, a leisure battery does.
There's another very recent thread where an owner had a flat battery a few days after getting his car.
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On a conventional setup we understand whether we are in off, accessory or ignition mode, (0 I II)
With these hybrids, especially keyless, I suppose it's easy to be in full ignition mode by accident and flatten the 12V with relative ease?
The initial tasks, phone pair & setup, SatNav & setup, audio & stations & setup, etc can take a few hours.
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In accessory mode, which means a limited number of items work in the car, mainly audio related, there is a warning after about 25 to 30minutes and it will power off to protect the battery.
In ignition ON mode (No brake pedal press) there is no warning and systems like the heater, AC and heated seats etc can all be on, so there could be a fair power drain. So if you need to sit in the car with power on, either only in accessory mode (for the short period it allows) or with drive ready/engine running to protect the 12v battery from discharging.
To recover a discharged 12v battery, it should be externally charged, otherwise it can take too long to recover from just the DC/DC converter charging it in normal usage.
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And yet the handbook describes how to jump start the car with a dead 12v battery. Same as a conventional car.
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Hi all
Thanks for all you input, things were fine this morning, got me too the golf club ok!
Been in touch with Vertu Honda (dealership I purchased from) & the car is going in tomorrow for a diagnostic check with a view to a new battery. The AA patrol guy said the battery was fine after the jump start yesterday, he also said that if I had been in the car just "trying things out" for any length of time,(and I had about 20 mins with no engine on this may have contributed to the flat), in fact he said the battery was in great condition, willet you know the outcome.
By the way what is ICE? and what is CTEK ?.
Thanks for the input
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CTEK is an intelligent battery charger.
ICE is internal combustion engine.
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ok thanks
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Curious. Presumably you’re talking about the 12V battery? Others have commented firstly that the 12V battery is charged from the HV system, not directly from the engine, and secondly that the 12V battery doesn’t start the engine, that’s done by the HV system.
If the 12V battery doesn't start the car, then is it tiny in the hybrids?
It's pretty small even in conventional Jazz's, but it's worth noting that, at least in conventional cars, the 12V battery is designed to provide a high starting current for the starter and isn't good at providing long steady discharge - like, say, a leisure battery does.
There's another very recent thread where an owner had a flat battery a few days after getting his car.
The 12V battery is much smaller than one in a conventional set up. I reckon in this case the battery must have been fairly low before fiddling about with the settings, that wouldn't normally affect it unless someone's doing it for hours. Maybe it had been parked somewhere for a long time before delivery?
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And i'd agree with Bristol. ive had Toyota hybrids with a similar set up for 14 years in the past and never suffered from a flat 12v battery. we've spent ages sitting in the car drinking coffee and chatting, with the car either fully powered up or more often just in accessory mode. I would imagine the AA man is being being mighty pessimistic though that a bit of fiddling with the settings in accessory mode would discharge a good battery.
so yes id concur with the others who said that the battery wasn't great when you picked the car up in terms of charge, or is faulty. hope you get it sorted. :)
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And yet the handbook describes how to jump start the car with a dead 12v battery. Same as a conventional car.
That section has been changed in the 22MY handbook. The heading is now "If the 12-Volt Battery Is Dead"
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When I get my Jazz Mk 4 EX next month it has to be parked in the street, so no chance of a mains trickle charge. I have a car 4v. solar panel which i put on the windscreen of my current ICE car (Mercedes 2009 A160 - the car that started the Jazz methinks.) This is plugged into the Mercedes OBD2 port.
Can someone please tell me if it will still be ok to connect the solar panel via the OBD2 port? Thanks.
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When I get my Jazz Mk 4 EX next month it has to be parked in the street, so no chance of a mains trickle charge. I have a car 4v. solar panel which i put on the windscreen of my current ICE car (Mercedes 2009 A160 - the car that started the Jazz methinks.) This is plugged into the Mercedes OBD2 port.
Can someone please tell me if it will still be ok to connect the solar panel via the OBD2 port? Thanks.
Seems that the 12V battery powers the ECU, which has power on when ignition off, so connecting solar panel to OBD port should logically charge the 12 battery, it is one of those things you have to try... go on, you know you want to !
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Can someone please tell me if it will still be ok to connect the solar panel via the OBD2 port?
OBD2 is a standard and the pinouts should be the same on all ICE vehicles, hybrid or otherwise (EVs don't need an OBD port so they use different connections on the cars that have them). 16 is +12v and 4 is chassis/Ground.
(https://components101.com/sites/default/files/component_pin/OBD2-Connector-Pinout.png)
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And yet the handbook describes how to jump start the car with a dead 12v battery. Same as a conventional car.
That section has been changed in the 22MY handbook. The heading is now "If the 12-Volt Battery Is Dead"
Is that the one that's in landscape orientation rather than the portrait of the MY21 one?
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PDF download from
https://honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals.html
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Can someone please tell me if it will still be ok to connect the solar panel via the OBD2 port?
OBD2 is a standard and the pinouts should be the same on all ICE vehicles, hybrid or otherwise (EVs don't need an OBD port so they use different connections on the cars that have them). 16 is +12v and 4 is chassis/Ground.
You can buy ready made SAE to OBD port loom to allow either a battery charger or solar panel to be connected.
By the sound of it Hugh R already has this setup... was just asking if he could use it on his new car, the only way is to try it.
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/battery-accessories/ring-obd-power-cable-for-solar-battery-maintainers-983932.html
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By the sound of it Hugh R already has this setup... was just asking if he could use it on his new car,
I know that. I was just showing him that OBD2 is a standard and should be the same on his new car.
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By the sound of it Hugh R already has this setup... was just asking if he could use it on his new car,
I know that. I was just showing him that OBD2 is a standard and should be the same on his new car.
Thanks everyone for your good advice. To be as clear as I can: I have not yet taken delivery of the car and don't even know if there is an OBD2 port - but when I get the car (because the 12v.battery clearly needs to be watched) I just want to know IF there IS an OBD2 port and IF I plug my solar charger into it, I would not blow the fuses, invalidate the guarantee or something far worse!
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There is an "accessory power socket" 12V which I assume is similar to the old cigarette lighter socket, it's described on P231 of the latest handbook. It says it's rated at 180 watts (15 amps) or less.
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There is an "accessory power socket" 12V which I assume is similar to the old cigarette lighter socket, it's described on P231 of the latest handbook. It says it's rated at 180 watts (15 amps) or less.
The difference with the socket is that if you were to put a real cigarette lighter in it, you'd probably melt the socket.
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It would be nice if there was a hidden accessory power socket or 2 so we could wire in a dashcam and SatNav easily and mostly invisible.
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The accessory power socket isn't live when the car is switched off (at least on the MK3, assumed same on the MK4). So for battery charging with a solar panel you have to use the OBD socket, or add extra wiring leading under the bonnet.
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The "lighter socket" is off when the car is off in the Mk4, too. I most recently used it for a cooler box which can run off both 12V and 240V.
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Thanks everyone for your good advice. To be as clear as I can: I have not yet taken delivery of the car and don't even know if there is an OBD2 port - but when I get the car (because the 12v.battery clearly needs to be watched) I just want to know IF there IS an OBD2 port and IF I plug my solar charger into it, I would not blow the fuses, invalidate the guarantee or something far worse!
Connecting a solar charger to the OBD2 socket is effectively no different to connecting the solar charger directly to the 12V battery. While the small print in the book probably recommends disconnecting the battery before connecting a charger, in reality I don't think that anyone with a modern charger heeds that advice.
IIRC the handbook recommends running the vehicle for 1/2 hour every three months to keep the batteries charged.
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In reply to my first post, it went back nine to the dealers the next day, even though the battery "righted itself".
It had a diagnostic check and an update through the diagnostic result, one of these was the update to connect the telematics which were not working so I couldn't install the My Honda + process, which is, I think, now installed.
Regarding the battery I was told that I should have switched on whilst 'messing" with getting familiar withe all the tech stuff as this resulted in the flat battery.
I did a couple of hundred miles touring round Yorkshire as I was told the battery would normalise with being used like this not just short stop/start trips. All seems ok now, so fingers crossed.
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There is a post somewhere with what 'switched on' actually entails. I've forgotten already.
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I did a couple of hundred miles touring round Yorkshire
Always worth doing that. It is a cure for many things.