Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: pintofale on December 30, 2020, 03:53:40 PM
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Hi there, anyone know if the new Jazz can be pre-heated, either via app or on a timer, like the Leaf? This would be handy in winter and potentially a huge plus.
Similarly pre-cooling with air con in the summer in EVs like the Leaf is super handy.
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The Jazz is a hybrid powertrain and cannot either be pre-heated or pre-cooled. Heating is dependent on the ICE so needs to be started and run for some minutes before cabin heating is available - heated seats and heated rear screen standard on many models to mitigate the warm up time of the ICE. You can always start the car then retire inside for a few minutes while it warms up - only do this if you have secure off street parking of course!
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Yeah - the battery isn’t big enough to pre heat the car. It’s also a traditional heater not a heat pump, so needs the heat from the ICE.
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You can always start the car then retire inside for a few minutes while it warms up - only do this if you have secure off street parking of course!
Then you emerge a few minutes later to discover that the engine is off because the battery is fully charged! Or maybe it will keep running because the cabin is cold? The heated seats help the warm-up and also add a bit of load to the electrics. While I would have preferred to have the A/C running as a heat pump, one simple measure would have been to put an electric heating element in the air vent at the bottom of the windscreen so there would be an instant supply of hot air for demisting / defrosting. I'm somewhat disappointed that Honda didn't give more thought to efficient winter operation. Fortunately, my winter mileage is a small part of the annual total.
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You can always start the car then retire inside for a few minutes while it warms up - only do this if you have secure off street parking of course!
[ While I would have preferred to have the A/C running as a heat pump, one simple measure would have been to put an electric heating element in the air vent at the bottom of the windscreen so there would be an instant supply of hot air for demisting / defrosting. I'm somewhat disappointed that Honda didn't give more thought to efficient winter operation. Fortunately, my winter mileage is a small part of the annual total.
The simplest solution would have been a heated windscreen, that way it deals with both frost and condensation easily.
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Some used a 'hotfrog' engine heater in the past. Not sure if possible in the Jazz.
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Yes, a pre-heater can be installed.
https://www.defa.com/electrical-preheating/engine-heaters/find-engine-heater/
http://old.defa.com/vfp/eh/412232.pdf
This is an electric heater, used to warm the coolant inside the engine block, so the whole engine. The car must be plugged to the 220v grid, then a timer or an app controlled switch will power the heater.
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Yes, a pre-heater can be installed.
https://www.defa.com/electrical-preheating/engine-heaters/find-engine-heater/
http://old.defa.com/vfp/eh/412232.pdf
This is an electric heater, used to warm the coolant inside the engine block, so the whole engine. The car must be plugged to the 220v grid, then a timer or an app controlled switch will power the heater.
I was toying with the idea of fitting one of these Defa block heaters a few years ago, but the cost put me off a bit. At the time, I had a big MPV, and it took an age to warm up in winter, clobbering the fuel economy on the short school runs.
As usual, the Chinese are now churning out universal units that can be plumbed in for a fraction of the price. They look like a rip-off of the Kenlowe Hotstart idea.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-240V-3000W-Car-Engine-Heater-Coolant-Heating-Air-Parking-Pre-Heater-1pcs/363222865403
You can get them much cheaper on Aliexpress.
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To be realistic, those engine block heaters have been invented to even have chance to start an engine after an arctic cold night like -20 or -30 degrees C.
During our winters, it's not necessary. If the car is stored in a comfty garage with 0-10 degrees C it won't save tons of fuel either.
And most owner who fitted a hot 'Kermit' gave up after a while fidling with the 220V cable.
One additional note: the engine heats itself and the battery pack up. If the engine is already warm, does it warm up the battery pack? I guess no. This could be contraproductive.
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To be realistic, those engine block heaters have been invented to even have chance to start an engine after an arctic cold night like -20 or -30 degrees C.
During our winters, it's not necessary. If the car is stored in a comfty garage with 0-10 degrees C it won't save tons of fuel either.
That's true, but I would have fitted one for convenience and comfort, more than anything.
On our old Ford Galaxy, I would have certainly appreciated the faster cabin heating and demisting. On cold winter days, you would only start to get warm air after several miles, and the interior of the car would still be cold. All the diesel versions of the car actually had a Webasto coolant heater fitted as standard, as the engine didn't produce enough heat to get itself up to operating temperature in cold weather.
Fuel economy was down from 30mpg to 20mpg when doing these runs exclusively, I was seriously considering fitting one when petrol was approaching £1.40 a litre in the UK. In 30-odd years of driving, I've never once put a car in a garage.
However, the Jazz HEV is a very different vehicle, and it may not make any appreciable difference to the fuel economy. As for warming the battery, I would have thought a pre-heater would help with that as soon as the system started up.
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Here, where the block heaters are more or less standard equipment on every car, it is commonly stated, that there is economical sense to pre-heat if temperature is below approximately +5 C. However, block heater can be combined with an interior heater for comfortability.
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I might got lazy over the years but the only device I'd mount would be a programmable parking heater, with a smartphone connectivity. It will consume more fuel but you can switch it on any time you like, having a warm engine and a warm interior. But I can't justify it for only 1-2 months below 0 degrees C.
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My car is garaged every night, and the garages are below flats, so only the door is subject to the elements. No matter how cold it is here, my blue light goes out, and the heater is ready to use, after 1.2 miles.
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The little Jazz soon warms up, and does a few more mpg than the thing I was running.
My idea was to put a dedicated socket under the carport, with a timer set to come on for an hour or so before departing... and try not to forget it's plugged in ;)
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My Civic is garaged and I run a descicant dehumidifier to keep the garage at about 70% max humidity. Nice not to have to defrost the glass.
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My Civic is garaged and I run a descicant dehumidifier to keep the garage at about 70% max humidity. Nice not to have to defrost the glass.
Even an open carport used to stop our cars screens frosting or icing up
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Just as an example, this is the 1700 W electric interior heater mounted on the passanger side of the center console in my Jazz.
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Even an open carport used to stop our cars screens frosting or icing up
It may do on an estate, but not always in the countryside with a NE wind whistling up it.
When it was clear, I sometimes found that everything was so cold, I could get a few hundreds yards down the road and the windscreen fogged up, forcing you to stop anyway.
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Even an open carport used to stop our cars screens frosting or icing up
It may do on an estate, but not always in the countryside with a NE wind whistling up it.
When it was clear, I sometimes found that everything was so cold, I could get a few hundreds yards down the road and the windscreen fogged up, forcing you to stop anyway.
In certain weather the moisture in the air condensates in the heater, and when the coolant starts to warm up, the moisture gets inside the windows. This gets worse by time, when some dust sticks inside the heater and holds more moisture. Really annoying.
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I was referring to the carport stopping the frost forming on the car, not subsequently when you have driven away ( the moisture that forms frost drops down vertically from atmosphere as the air cools and can not hold as much moisture ) the frost forms on the roof of carport, not the car. Obviously having the car under the open sided carport will not really keep car any warmer.
Even in the nasty winter 1982/3 where the recorded for coldest temp in England at -26.1 deg C was set in Newport Shropshire only a few miles from where we lived our windscreens were clear of frost, snow and ice and if you warmed the car up a bit the inside would not mist up. I had to use a hairdryer to warm carburettor up before car would start, but never had a problem with frost on car.
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I still swear by a 2 litre bottle of tepid water. Clears the screen and stops it misting up inside. Been doing so for 20+yrs. Tepid is the key though.
To stop it misting overnight, get the car as cold as you can before you park it up at the end of the journey. Last 3 miles, set the temperature inside to cold, last 1/2 mile, open the windows. I only learnt this a couple of years ago, but parking your car up with the interior as close as possible to ambient temperature to stop it steamng up really does work.
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Just as an example, this is the 1700 W electric interior heater mounted on the passanger side of the center console in my Jazz.
Ahaaaa
It's the same heater mounted in some ambulances I drive.
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Yes, a pre-heater can be installed.
https://www.defa.com/electrical-preheating/engine-heaters/find-engine-heater/
http://old.defa.com/vfp/eh/412232.pdf
This is an electric heater, used to warm the coolant inside the engine block, so the whole engine. The car must be plugged to the 220v grid, then a timer or an app controlled switch will power the heater.
I was toying with the idea of fitting one of these Defa block heaters a few years ago, but the cost put me off a bit. At the time, I had a big MPV, and it took an age to warm up in winter, clobbering the fuel economy on the short school runs.
As usual, the Chinese are now churning out universal units that can be plumbed in for a fraction of the price. They look like a rip-off of the Kenlowe Hotstart idea.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-240V-3000W-Car-Engine-Heater-Coolant-Heating-Air-Parking-Pre-Heater-1pcs/363222865403
You can get them much cheaper on Aliexpress.
Yep, cheaper but less functional: this device must be put in one of the two hoses between the engine and the radiator, it will heat the coolant inside the hose hoping that it will start circulating itself by convective motion.
The aftermarket 220v Defa heater (and the OEM 115v Honda heater, very similar to the Defa) will heat only the coolant inside the engine, heating the block, the head and warming the lubricant.
Defa also sells that kind of heaters (same of the chinese you posted), but only when every other kind of heater cannot be mounted.
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Yep, cheaper but less functional: this device must be put in one of the two hoses between the engine and the radiator, it will heat the coolant inside the hose hoping that it will start circulating itself by convective motion.
The aftermarket 220v Defa heater (and the OEM 115v Honda heater, very similar to the Defa) will heat only the coolant inside the engine, heating the block, the head and warming the lubricant.
Defa also sells that kind of heaters (same of the chinese you posted), but only when every other kind of heater cannot be mounted.
The Chinese units are fitted in the existing heater circuit, not the radiator, so heating the engine block and heat exchanger circuit, same as the Defa. Any heater in the radiator circuit won't work, that's the wrong side of the thermostat. These heaters also have an electric pump built in, so are every bit as effective as the Defa unit.
Yes, the Defa units are a neater idea, using a heater element that fits into bottom hose connection of your specific engine, but they are ten times the price of the Chinese effort here in the UK.
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Electric pre-heating is OK (subject to having a convenient socket) for the start of a trip from home but will do nothing to help a trip back home after the car has been parked away from home all day although, I acknowledge, days tend to be a bit warmer than nights.
Getting back to the Mk. 4 Jazz, my concern is retention of such heat that the engine generates while it is running. In urban conditions it may only be needing to run to provide power for the vehicle for one minute every three or four minutes. When it isn't running it is cooling down either because of the cabin heating or due to natural ventilation of the engine compartment (a much grater problem when the vehicle is moving).
I've seen a comment somewhere that the basic Mk. 4 Jazz does warm up quite well but I'm unimpressed by the cold weather behaviour of my Crosstar. I have to wonder whether the basic Jazz's more solid face (which some say is ugly) combined with the undertray combine to keep the engine compartment warmer. Crosstar's extra vents on the front plus the lack of the undertray (not needed, we are told, as there's no aerodynamic improvement) substantially increase the amount of natural draught around the engine and cause the hybrid system to operate less efficiently. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the design engineers assumed that the Crosstar would have the undertray and the bean counters then left it off.
I wonder how Toyota have addressed this problem in the new Yaris - the advertising says that the engine only needs to run for one minute in five in urban driving.
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At the moment I have my climate control set to 22 and the interior gets quite toastie in about 4 or 5 miles.
From what you're saying the Crosstar takes considerably longer, if at all, because the engine keeps cutting out ?
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From what you're saying the Crosstar takes considerably longer, if at all, because the engine keeps cutting out ?
What happens depends on the driving conditions. First there's the warm-up problem. Initially the engine has some load until the battery is fully charged (turning on the heated seats will slow that charge rate down slightly) but once the battery is charged and the engine is running only to heat the cabin then all the extra efficiency due to the hybrid system is lost. If the vehicle is moving then there's a cold breeze through the engine compartment delaying the engine reaching the optimum operating temperature so it's below the potential best efficiency. At low to moderate speeds the engine should keep cutting out for the hybrid system to run efficiently but if the engine cuts out then it starts to cool down and the greater the ventilation through the engine compartment then the faster that happens. At higher speeds the engine is likely to be running continuously with more load on it so it's likely to warm up faster but until it's hot the mixture will be richer with more fuel going down the exhaust pipe.
Honda put grille shutters on the CR-V https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/cars/media/pressreleases/159200/2019-honda-cr-v-hybrid56 . They know there's a problem needing to be addressed:
"Air inlets at the front, beneath the chrome Honda badge on the nose, feature Honda’s Active Shutter Grille system to improve fuel efficiency. By default, the system keeps the grille shutters closed as much as possible, even in city driving, to improve the aerodynamic performance. However, when required, the system operates an electronic step motor to open the grille shutters as much as necessary to allow airflow into the engine bay. A central processor tracks major temperature parameters for engine coolant, transmission oil and air-conditioning requirements, to determine the ideal state for the shutters."
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At the moment I have my climate control set to 22 and the interior gets quite toastie in about 4 or 5 miles.
From what you're saying the Crosstar takes considerably longer, if at all, because the engine keeps cutting out ?
Is your Crosstar kept in a garage or open on a drive? Also does the engine keep running until the cabin set temperature is reached? I would expect Honda to program the climate control to keep the engine running until the set temperature is achieved.
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I've currently got a 2013 9G Civic but I have the Crosstar as my No1 for a change later this year so I'm here 'taking notes' :)
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From what you're saying the Crosstar takes considerably longer, if at all, because the engine keeps cutting out ?
What happens depends on the driving conditions. First there's the warm-up problem. Initially the engine has some load until the battery is fully charged (turning on the heated seats will slow that charge rate down slightly) but once the battery is charged and the engine is running only to heat the cabin then all the extra efficiency due to the hybrid system is lost. If the vehicle is moving then there's a cold breeze through the engine compartment delaying the engine reaching the optimum operating temperature so it's below the potential best efficiency. At low to moderate speeds the engine should keep cutting out for the hybrid system to run efficiently but if the engine cuts out then it starts to cool down and the greater the ventilation through the engine compartment then the faster that happens. At higher speeds the engine is likely to be running continuously with more load on it so it's likely to warm up faster but until it's hot the mixture will be richer with more fuel going down the exhaust pipe.
Honda put grille shutters on the CR-V https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/cars/media/pressreleases/159200/2019-honda-cr-v-hybrid56 . They know there's a problem needing to be addressed:
"Air inlets at the front, beneath the chrome Honda badge on the nose, feature Honda’s Active Shutter Grille system to improve fuel efficiency. By default, the system keeps the grille shutters closed as much as possible, even in city driving, to improve the aerodynamic performance. However, when required, the system operates an electronic step motor to open the grille shutters as much as necessary to allow airflow into the engine bay. A central processor tracks major temperature parameters for engine coolant, transmission oil and air-conditioning requirements, to determine the ideal state for the shutters."
That's sure, but there is another problem, cost cutting, that affects Honda while it builds cars, especially small cars like Jazz. A stepper motor operating front grill shtters could be put also on the Jazz, increasing its price list because it would become "a small CRV". Other features are not used in these cars because of the cost: we already talked about the heat pump, but the same would be for a other devices used for heat recovering and heat storaging. Also windows... now they only have one simple glass layer (apart from the windshield with two layers and a safety plastic foil between), but they could be more complex and heat insulating. During warmup, CRV has an heat exchanger to recover heat from exhaust gas, shortening warmup and recovering heat for the cabin, but it does not have a bowl to store heat and use it when the engine is off. Our cars could be much better in efficiency, but they would be much heavy and much expensive.
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Is your Crosstar kept in a garage or open on a drive? Also does the engine keep running until the cabin set temperature is reached? I would expect Honda to program the climate control to keep the engine running until the set temperature is achieved.
My Crosstar lives outside. Yes, the difference between target and actual cabin temperatures affects what the engine does and enabling the Econ mode increases the allowable difference between the two temperatures. Ideally a running engine is doing some useful work (moving the vehicle or charging the battery or both) and the heat is just a by-product. Running the engine to provide heat when the vehicle isn't moving and the battery is fully charged is a poor use of fuel. Honda provided an electrically powered aircon to avoid the engine running just to keep the vehicle occupants cool but omitted to make any similar provision for the cold half of the year (and it does get cold in Japan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55359771 ).
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My Crosstar lives outside. Yes, the difference between target and actual cabin temperatures affects what the engine does and enabling the Econ mode increases the allowable difference between the two temperatures. Ideally a running engine is doing some useful work (moving the vehicle or charging the battery or both) and the heat is just a by-product. Running the engine to provide heat when the vehicle isn't moving and the battery is fully charged is a poor use of fuel. Honda provided an electrically powered aircon to avoid the engine running just to keep the vehicle occupants cool but omitted to make any similar provision for the cold half of the year (and it does get cold in Japan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55359771 ).
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Sorry to be pedantic but on a cold morning does the engine keep running until the cabin has warmed up or does it cut out and leave you in the cold? For example in a line of slow moving stop/start traffic would the engine keep running to provide warmth or would you sit in the cold, and if so for how long?
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Not pedantic at all in my book, I'm interested as well.
This maybe Hondas first attempt at this technology and may have made mistakes.
This is the time of year for MK4 owners to tell us what's actually happening under various road conditions. For me, if the engine runs longer to keep me warm then I'm not bothered about a bit of extra fuel.
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This maybe Hondas first attempt at this technology and may have made mistakes.
This drive/transmission system was used in the 2014 Accord Hybrid, then from 2017 until the present on the Accord Hybrid. It was introduced to the Clarity PHEV in 2018, the Insight from 2019 and the CR-V from 2020 so it is new, but not exactly their first attempt with this system. It will be interesting to see how Jazz/Crosstar owners fair over the winter concerning cabin heating though the lockdown and reduced mileages won't help.
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Thanks Jocko, glad I used the 'maybe' as I wasn't sure.
Next question ........ from the posts, I've picked up that the drive is via electric only and the engine is there primarily to top up the battery pack ?
If so, why a 1500cc ? Wouldn't a far smaller, say, 500cc do the job more efficiently ?
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Next question ........ from the posts, I've picked up that the drive is via electric only and the engine is there primarily to top up the battery pack ?
If so, why a 1500cc ? Wouldn't a far smaller, say, 500cc do the job more efficiently ?
Even I know the answer to that one. You might usefully have a look at Honda’s website for the Jazz, which explains the various drive modes. When the road speed gets high enough (I think it’s around 40-50mph) the hybrid system can’t supply enough power and the engine starts driving the wheels directly. At that point, you lose the advantages of the hybrid drive, the car is behaving more like a normal ICE but the engine is having to move a heavy car (because of the weight penalty of the hybrid system) as well as charge the battery. I suspect Honda decided a smaller engine would struggle, especially given the criticisms aimed at the 1.4 in the Mk3 of it being “underpowered”. The flip side of that is that fuel economy drops off in direct drive mode.
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Next question ........ from the posts, I've picked up that the drive is via electric only and the engine is there primarily to top up the battery pack ?
This video, posted on another thread, is excellent. It shows the transmission's workings, in easy to understand terms, and is definitely worth the watching.
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Ah ha, so the engine can drive the wheels, thanks
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We find that a) the heated seats in the crossbar are great, B) on cold days we wrap up warm - maybe its not the done thing with youngsters - but us oldies have it in built. :) ;D
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I always wrap up warm in the car. On the other hand, my wife takes her coat/jacket off before she gets in. I keep saying to her; if we were involved in an accident and waiting to get cut free, you could die of hypothermia before the fire brigade were on the scene.
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I never wear anything coat, gloves or hat related when driving. I find it hampers me.
If the car won't get to ~20C inside or at least blowing hot air within about 5 miles then that's a fail.
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I once had a job that involved an occasional trip in a Beech King Air (small turbo-prop). The shirt-sleeved pilot would look at his 6 or 7 passengers bundled up in coats and scarves on a cold morning, and remark that we should take note of what the pilot was wearing. Sure enough, it got very warm soon after engine start!
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The older readers will remember the days when cars did not have heaters - hence the car rug for passengers, and warm driving gloves.
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All this info is useful, thanks.
Something to note when I book the test drive, have they pre-warmed it.
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I always wrap up warm in the car. On the other hand, my wife takes her coat/jacket off before she gets in. I keep saying to her; if we were involved in an accident and waiting to get cut free, you could die of hypothermia before the fire brigade were on the scene.
Is it a woman thing ? My wife sits on the sofa in a blouse when outside temp of 1 or 2 degrees and wants to turn up the thermostat to make the house tropical, I just put a jumper on, the room is already over 20 degrees, but the bad news is that when the thermostat keeps getting turned up your body gets used to it and needs it turned up some more..... I always wrap up warm in the car, but with things like a zipped fleece what I can unzip a bit. The problem with modern car heaters ( like Honda, but maybe they are just the worst ) is that the vents start blowing warm air but after a few miles as the cabin heats up the vent air gets cooler and in the end feels it like a cold draught ( my wife complains about it ) - so you turn up the temperature and it blows warm again for a while, then goes cold again ( this is not on auto climate control ). I did an experiment a few years ago with a dual readout thermometer with a thermistor on a wire, I poked the wire into the vent and went for a drive in fairly cold conditions, the air from vent started off at below ambient, quickly climbed to about 50degC then started to drop and it actually went below ambient ( from car instrument outside temp reading ), after blowing cold air for a while it decided the cabin was getting cold and blew slightly warm air, then went cold again, causing a cold draught. What I wouldn't give for the two heater controls on your MK1 Jocko, one for fan speed and one for vent air temperature - so you can set it to blow warm air and it keeps blowing warn air, if you get too hot you turn it down - but it still blows warm air. I hate car automation.. it never really seems to work very well.
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Just been chatting to a friend who has a Prius, sounds the same. Never fully warms up in the cold as the engine cuts out.
Even with a full battery, if you select heat first thing the engine does fire up to get it going.
He reckons short journeys, forget all about the heater.
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I once had a job that involved an occasional trip in a Beech King Air (small turbo-prop). The shirt-sleeved pilot would look at his 6 or 7 passengers bundled up in coats and scarves on a cold morning, and remark that we should take note of what the pilot was wearing. Sure enough, it got very warm soon after engine start!
Absolutely agree - but please could any current Crosstar owners let us know if the engine keeps running to heat the cabin from cold or not. Basically does the engine keep running until the set temperature is reached then maintain that temperature (climate control).
Living in North Yorkshire I have fears of being stuck in some snowdrift on the moors and the engine deciding not to run because the battery is fully charged so I freeze gently!!
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The older readers will remember the days when cars did not have heaters - hence the car rug for passengers, and warm driving gloves.
A heater used to be an optional extra on a new car. And the heaters were all recirculating so no fresh air like now.
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Just been chatting to a friend who has a Prius, sounds the same. Never fully warms up in the cold as the engine cuts out.
Even with a full battery, if you select heat first thing the engine does fire up to get it going.
He reckons short journeys, forget all about the heater.
Don't know about the Prius but my 2016 hybrid Rav4 warms up more quickly than any car I can remember and it stays warm. After having this thing for over three years, I pay no attention to whether the engine is running or not, or the charge state of the battery. It just works. Does it's thing and I do mine. No complaints at all.
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The ICE is almost constantly running when using climate control in winter IME. I haven’t done a whole lot of miles though, 300 or so.
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Absolutely agree - but please could any current Crosstar owners let us know if the engine keeps running to heat the cabin from cold or not. Basically does the engine keep running until the set temperature is reached then maintain that temperature (climate control).
Living in North Yorkshire I have fears of being stuck in some snowdrift on the moors and the engine deciding not to run because the battery is fully charged so I freeze gently!!
It won't let you freeze. My complaint is that the absence of an undertray and mechanism to limit the airflow through the front (less of an issue if you're stuck unless there's also a gale blowing) means that the engine itself is subject to more cooling than necessary. In addition, the Crosstar has heated front seats which will provide some electrical power drain and thus give the engine more reason for running. However, carry a blanket for the rear seat passengers.
A heater used to be an optional extra on a new car. And the heaters were all recirculating so no fresh air like now.
As was the case with my Austin A35 and when the heater started to drip coolant I disconnected it and tolerated the cold.
I fondly remember my Maestro because it was able to blow warm air on windscreen and feet while blowing fresh air towards my face. I haven't come across a newer vehicle with that versatility.
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I fondly remember my Maestro because it was able to blow warm air on windscreen and feet while blowing fresh air towards my face. I haven't come across a newer vehicle with that versatility.
You've just reminded me that my Montego did have its good points, after all ;)
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I fondly remember my Maestro because it was able to blow warm air on windscreen and feet while blowing fresh air towards my face. I haven't come across a newer vehicle with that versatility.
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Grabbing at straws there, finding praise for the Maestro and Montego!!!
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My first car was a 1963 Renault 4L which I remember having rather an effective heater. It was turned on using a tap near the driver's left knee which allowed hot water into a heat exchanger near the floor. There was a horizontally hinged flap under the front windscreen which could be opened so that fresh air over the bonnet was driven into the system. The car was a bit like the Jazz in that it had front wheel drive, five doors and a fold-flat rear bench seat, giving a good load space, which is why I bought it in 1965. Only a three-speed gearbox and 6 volt electrics though!
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My first car was a 1963 Renault 4L
I preferred the 1970s version with the grab handles on the front bumper, in case you ran someone over.
Just for you
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/renault-unveils-retro-4l-based-electric-convertible
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That looks like it should have pedals not an engine :)
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My first car was a 1963 Renault 4L which I remember having rather an effective heater. It was turned on using a tap near the driver's left knee which allowed hot water into a heat exchanger near the floor. There was a horizontally hinged flap under the front windscreen which could be opened so that fresh air over the bonnet was driven into the system. The car was a bit like the Jazz in that it had front wheel drive, five doors and a fold-flat rear bench seat, giving a good load space, which is why I bought it in 1965. Only a three-speed gearbox and 6 volt electrics though!
My first car was 1974 Renault 4, with all the same handy features, except four-speed gearbox and 12 V electrics. The wee engine had great low rpm torque. Ant is was amazingly good off road thanks to minimal overhang and decent ground clearance. I once beat Toyota Land Cruiser on a gravel pit. LC's rear bumper hit the ground when trying to go steep uphill. R4 went like no problem.
Actually, I still have it.
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My first car was 1974 Renault 4, with all the same handy features, except four-speed gearbox and 12 V electrics. The wee engine had great low rpm torque. Ant is was amazingly good off road thanks to minimal overhang and decent ground clearance. I once beat Toyota Land Cruiser on a gravel pit. LC's rear bumper hit the ground when trying to go steep uphill. R4 went like no problem.
Actually, I still have it.
Lucky you - look after it! Re the ground clearance, I panicked when I first washed the 4L and noticed that the wheelbase was longer on one side than the other. The dealer assured me it was intentional to allow the two full width rear torsion bars to be mounted one behind the other. French creativity!
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There is plenty of French creativity in the engineering of that car! For example have a look at the engine bay and how the gear selector rod goes over the engine and cooler to operate a stick coming out of the gearbox!
When it was still my daily driver, one man came to tell me his memories of R4. He and his wife were going to a holiday and let a garage make an oil change right before the trip. After about 200 km the gearbox broke. I'm sure by now you guess what happened. Poor mechanic drained first plug from front, which happens to be the gearbox. And serviced the engine with new oil on top of the old.
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Renault 4. What an amazing car they were. Lucky enough to have had a drive in the 1100cc last of the line version many years ago. Such good cars. :D
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Fiat 126, early 80's, 4 gears, 4 drum brakes.
Two levers between front seats, one for the choke, the other for the starter motor directly driven by the lever.
Cabin heater directly from the engine, a lever under the rear seat could open or close an air duct from the air cooled engine to the windshield (defrost) or to driver/passenger feet.
Air temperature was selected by gas pressure, the more you pressed the pedal, the hotter it came out from vents.
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Because of the noise when you opened the heater flap, my daughter called ours "Rory".
(https://i.imgur.com/pSo7KZn.jpg)
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Just bought the Defa heater, 220v 550w, I will mount it during the fourth service when I will change the cooling fluid.
Next winter I will test it.
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I've been using a Neoprene covering on the lower grill half since December, and it's helping my engine to warm-up a little quicker during my daily commute.
I have a short steep climb which helps me heating the ICE and a long and gentle descent where usually ICE kick in because it gets too cold, with the covering I've reduced a lot this behaviour.
If it's not foggy, I use also the air recirculation when the ICE is cold, it helps a lot in heating the cabin quicker and avoiding it to cool down quickly.
I've tested the car on a Highway trip with a gentle climb @ 110km/h, and the temperature never exceed the usual 80°-82°C, so I think I'll remove this only in March/April.
If you're asking why it's not covering the complete bottom grill, I've left opened the part where the PCU radiator is, because normally they don't mind cold temperature, and I can't read their temperature through OBD.
Just bought the Defa heater, 220v 550w, I will mount it during the fourth service when I will change the cooling fluid.
Next winter I will test it.
Are you talking about the heater for the 4th Gen or a previous one?
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Are you taling about the heater for the 4th Gen or a previous one?
3th generation, but it's the same device.
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I've been using a Neoprene covering on the lower grill half since December, and it's helping my engine to warm-up a little quicker during my daily commute.
How did you fix it in place?
I've been wondering how I could block off some of the radiator but was thinking of putting something inside of the grille but access there is difficult. You've found an easier solution.
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I'm using the 3 vertical fins of the grill as a support, and also left the neoprene a little longer on the left side (looking from the front) where the grill is closed from the manufacturer.
I've inserted the neoprene from the front and cut a little where each fin is so it wraps better around.
Consider also that between the horizontal fin there is roughly 1.4mm, and my neoprene thickness is 1.5 so I had to push it a little bit to put it inside.
For the moment I didn't had any issue when braking or speeding up to 120km/h