Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: j.smit7890 on July 03, 2020, 10:40:15 AM
-
Hi guys
I have a 59 plate MK2 Honda jazz. It currently has 67k miles on it. I have recently serviced it myself and done an oil and filter change a few thousand miles ago.
I have only had the car a year and it has developed a strange whistling sound, almost sounds like a leak when pushing down on the accelerator.
My ac also went last Friday, stopped providing cold air, and the clutch is not spinning, the whistling sound started at the same time. The compressor is working however as the revs do change when turned on and I can hear it. The clutch itself is not spinning though.
Could these two be related? The whistling/whining sound and the compressor clutch not engaging? Could it simply be low on gas? But why the whistling sound then?
Any help would be appreciated
-
Could it be either a slipping or failing auxiliary belt (what used to be called a fanbelt), had this go on a 2004 1.4, I would describe the noise as high pitched and chirruping, like a bird, before it failed.
Or I also had an air con pipe split once which didn't make any specific noise I recall, but if the compressor if forcing gas/air through a small crack or split it could conceivably make the whistling noise.
-
I would suggest that the aircon system possibly has a leak. If the pressure is low the compressor will not cut-in. You need to find a workshop that will do a proper aircon service which will include a leak check. If the auxiliary drive belt was slipping you might have an alternator warning light come on.
Vic.
-
I would suggest that the aircon system possibly has a leak. If the pressure is low the compressor will not cut-in. You need to find a workshop that will do a proper aircon service which will include a leak check. If the auxiliary drive belt was slipping you might have an alternator warning light come on.
Vic.
Would this cause the whining sound too? It usually gets worse as I press on the accelerator almost like a faint rattle. I have given it into the garage today and told it could be the water pump.
-
The solenoid operated clutch connects the compressor drive shaft to the moving pulley, if the clutch is not engaging due to low gas ( shine a torch down to lowest pulley below alternator to see if centre of pulley is spinning or stationary when engine running ). If centre of pulley not rotating then compressor is not turning - so you need to look elsewhere for the source of noise.
The belt tensioner idler pulley is known to go, can be rattling or whirring / shrieking noise. The belt tension on MK2 is spring loaded ( the idler pulley is on a spring loaded arm and the tension can be release with 17mm spanner and a metal tube or a special bit of kit with a long bar and a 17mm socket on the end ) so this keeps bet tension constant even after very high mileage and normally does not let belt slip. The Kevlar and polyurethane micro-vee belts are easily good for over 100,000 miles and maybe a lot more, the signs of wear are cracking across the belt and fraying along the edges.
-
The solenoid operated clutch connects the compressor drive shaft to the moving pulley, if the clutch is not engaging due to low gas ( shine a torch down to lowest pulley below alternator to see if centre of pulley is spinning or stationary when engine running ). If centre of pulley not rotating then compressor is not turning - so you need to look elsewhere for the source of noise.
The belt tensioner idler pulley is known to go, can be rattling or whirring / shrieking noise. The belt tension on MK2 id spring loaded ( the idler pulley is on a spring loaded arm and the tension can be release with 17mm spanner and a metal tube or a special bit of kit with a long bar and a 17mm socket on the end ) so this keeps bet tension constant even after very high mileage and normally does not let belt slip. The Kevlar and polyurethane micro-vee belts are easily good for over 100,000 miles and maybe a lot more, the signs of wear are cracking across the belt and fraying along the edges.
Yeah the AC condenser clutch is definitely not spinning, that was one of the first things I checked. The belt on the condenser is spinning but the clutch itself is stationary.
I just found it odd that the AC stopped and the noise started at the same time so of course naturally I looked at the condensor first. So I take that the idler pulley is connected to the ac condensor? It's currently in the garage and I am awaiting a call back on the diagnosis.
-
So I take that the idler pulley is connected to the ac condensor? It's currently in the garage and I am awaiting a call back on the diagnosis.
Normally with the aircon turned off the outside of the pulley spins but the inside is stationary, the bit that is stationary is connected to the compressor shaft, When the clutch solenoid gets power from the ECU to run the aircon the clutch plate is attracted to the spinning pulley and also spins, now driving the compressor.
The spring loaded idler pulley that I referred to in my previous post only controls belt tension is not connected to anything, it just runs on a bearing and freewheels all the time - its only purpose in life is to keep the belt tensioned, but as I said the bearing is known to give problems on rare occasions and it makes a noise. Looking at the end of the engine the idler pulley is to the left of alternator and a bit lower - IIRC in line and below engine mount
This thread shows the aircon clutch pulley pretty well, you can see the springs that release the clutch when power is removed from solenoid - https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8318.0
-
https://www.parts-honda.uk/honda-cars/JAZZ/2009/14-EX/ENGINE/AUTO-TENSIONER/17TF0901/E__0600/1/22538 (https://www.parts-honda.uk/honda-cars/JAZZ/2009/14-EX/ENGINE/AUTO-TENSIONER/17TF0901/E__0600/1/22538)
Looks like you can change the bearing only. Probably find Bearing Services or the like would well undercut Honda.
-
So I take that the idler pulley is connected to the ac condensor? It's currently in the garage and I am awaiting a call back on the diagnosis.
Normally with the aircon turned off the outside of the pulley spins but the inside is stationary, the bit that is stationary is connected to the compressor shaft, When the clutch solenoid gets power from the ECU to run the aircon the clutch plate is attracted to the spinning pulley and also spins, now driving the compressor.
The spring loaded idler pulley that I referred to in my previous post only controls belt tension is not connected to anything, it just runs on a bearing and freewheels all the time - its only purpose in life is to keep the belt tensioned, but as I said the bearing is known to give problems on rare occasions and it makes a noise. Looking at the end of the engine the idler pulley is to the left of alternator and a bit lower - IIRC in line and below engine mount
This thread shows the aircon clutch pulley pretty well, you can see the springs that release the clutch when power is removed from solenoid - https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8318.0
So I've been told by the mechanic that the AC compressor needs replacing. He's quoted me £60 for fitting.
I just got under the car and had a look at the compressor, and it looks like it is the HSK70 model. Quite hard to find this model at breakers, at least on eBay. It mainly seems to be the TRSE07 model.
Any tips on finding one?
-
So I take that the idler pulley is connected to the ac condensor? It's currently in the garage and I am awaiting a call back on the diagnosis.
Normally with the aircon turned off the outside of the pulley spins but the inside is stationary, the bit that is stationary is connected to the compressor shaft, When the clutch solenoid gets power from the ECU to run the aircon the clutch plate is attracted to the spinning pulley and also spins, now driving the compressor.
The spring loaded idler pulley that I referred to in my previous post only controls belt tension is not connected to anything, it just runs on a bearing and freewheels all the time - its only purpose in life is to keep the belt tensioned, but as I said the bearing is known to give problems on rare occasions and it makes a noise. Looking at the end of the engine the idler pulley is to the left of alternator and a bit lower - IIRC in line and below engine mount
This thread shows the aircon clutch pulley pretty well, you can see the springs that release the clutch when power is removed from solenoid - https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8318.0
So I've been told by the mechanic that the AC compressor needs replacing. He's quoted me £60 for fitting.
I just got under the car and had a look at the compressor, and it looks like it is the HSK70 model. Quite hard to find this model at breakers, at least on eBay. It mainly seems to be the TRSE07 model.
Any tips on finding one?
When the aircon is turned off the compressor is not turning, so cannot be making a noise - if the centre of the aircon clutch pulley is not turning the compressor is not turning either. It may just be the front bearing that the compressor pulley turns on making a noise ( there is an outer bearing for the pulley to spin on and an inner bearing for the compressor drive shaft, the outer bearing is used all the time the engine is running the inner bearing and rest of compressor only turn when clutch is engaged and turning with the pulley ). Honda would not have special mountings on engine for two different compressors so you will probably find that either will fit, and whichever they can get from supplier will be fitted to the car ( just like sometimes NGK spark plugs are fitted or Denso as OEM ).
The outer bearing comes with the pulley, the inner bearing with the compressor - if the noise is there and clutch is not turning replacing the pulley should get rid of the noise. IIRC there is a Keihin clutch / pulley for the HSK70 which is silver or gold and the clutch / pulley for Sanden TRSE07 is black
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Compressor-Magnetic-Clutch-Pulley-Magnetic-Coil-Honda-Civic-Jazz-III-Ge-/292941844918
My ac also went last Friday, stopped providing cold air, and the clutch is not spinning, the whistling sound started at the same time. The compressor is working however as the revs do change when turned on and I can hear it. The clutch itself is not spinning though.
If the clutch is not spinning the compressor cannot be working, your system is probably low on gas and that has stopped the clutch from being engaged ( there is a pressure switch on the system ), if the clutch is not working but both the large radiator fans still run when you turn aircon on it may be that clutch coil has failed ( or the relay in fuse box, although they normally stick closed rather than fail to close ). Get the aircon pressure checked to see if it is low gas, did the garage do that ? There may well be a parameter in ECU to increase engine revs at tickover when you turn aircon switch on, to allow for the drag on engine of the compressor, maybe that is the change in revs you hear.
If you look at this site the compressors are described as replacements for both Keihin HSK70 and Sanden TRSE07
https://www.bestpartstore.co.uk/38810rb0006-oen
-
+1.
-
So I take that the idler pulley is connected to the ac condensor? It's currently in the garage and I am awaiting a call back on the diagnosis.
Normally with the aircon turned off the outside of the pulley spins but the inside is stationary, the bit that is stationary is connected to the compressor shaft, When the clutch solenoid gets power from the ECU to run the aircon the clutch plate is attracted to the spinning pulley and also spins, now driving the compressor.
The spring loaded idler pulley that I referred to in my previous post only controls belt tension is not connected to anything, it just runs on a bearing and freewheels all the time - its only purpose in life is to keep the belt tensioned, but as I said the bearing is known to give problems on rare occasions and it makes a noise. Looking at the end of the engine the idler pulley is to the left of alternator and a bit lower - IIRC in line and below engine mount
This thread shows the aircon clutch pulley pretty well, you can see the springs that release the clutch when power is removed from solenoid - https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8318.0
So I've been told by the mechanic that the AC compressor needs replacing. He's quoted me £60 for fitting.
I just got under the car and had a look at the compressor, and it looks like it is the HSK70 model. Quite hard to find this model at breakers, at least on eBay. It mainly seems to be the TRSE07 model.
Any tips on finding one?
When the aircon is turned off the compressor is not turning, so cannot be making a noise - if the centre of the aircon clutch pulley is not turning the compressor is not turning either. It may just be the front bearing that the compressor pulley turns on making a noise ( there is an outer bearing for the pulley to spin on and an inner bearing for the compressor drive shaft, the outer bearing is used all the time the engine is running the inner bearing and rest of compressor only turn when clutch is engaged and turning with the pulley ). Honda would not have special mountings on engine for two different compressors so you will probably find that either will fit, and whichever they can get from supplier will be fitted to the car ( just like sometimes NGK spark plugs are fitted or Denso as OEM ).
The outer bearing comes with the pulley, the inner bearing with the compressor - if the noise is there and clutch is not turning replacing the pulley should get rid of the noise. IIRC there is a Keihin clutch / pulley for the HSK70 which is silver or gold and the clutch / pulley for Sanden TRSE07 is black
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Compressor-Magnetic-Clutch-Pulley-Magnetic-Coil-Honda-Civic-Jazz-III-Ge-/292941844918
My ac also went last Friday, stopped providing cold air, and the clutch is not spinning, the whistling sound started at the same time. The compressor is working however as the revs do change when turned on and I can hear it. The clutch itself is not spinning though.
If the clutch is not spinning the compressor cannot be working, your system is probably low on gas and that has stopped the clutch from being engaged ( there is a pressure switch on the system ), if the clutch is not working but both the large radiator fans still run when you turn aircon on it may be that clutch coil has failed ( or the relay in fuse box, although they normally stick closed rather than fail to close ). Get the aircon pressure checked to see if it is low gas, did the garage do that ? There may well be a parameter in ECU to increase engine revs at tickover when you turn aircon switch on, to allow for the drag on engine of the compressor, maybe that is the change in revs you hear.
If you look at this site the compressors are described as replacements for both Keihin HSK70 and Sanden TRSE07
https://www.bestpartstore.co.uk/38810rb0006-oen
+1.
Hi guys,
So I've had it looked at by 2 garages and they have both told me that the compressor needs replacing and this is what is causing the sound. This morning I went to start the car and it made a real grinding sound coming from the engine, like the sound had gotten worse.
Please bare with me as I don't really know much about these honda jazz' which is why I am on here asking you people for some help which I really appreciate.
So I looked under the car and see HSK-70 on the AC compressor, is this the part number? It does indeed look identical to the TRSE07 model but I have been told by a breakers that they are not the same? Does anyone have any info on this as I can't seem to find anything online about it. The HSK70 model seems to be quite hard to get a hold of, plenty of the TRSE07 models about however.
Any help would be massively appreciated.